Now It's San Bernardino

[hay joe]

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Irving Berlin

 

[kenny]

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Irving Berlin

God bless everyone on earth .... equally! ... not just MY gang!

 

[hay joe]

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Irving Berlin

God bless everyone on earth .... equally! ... not just MY gang!

I thought you were an atheist and I had no idea you were in a gang.

 

[packrat]

there's no reason why someone can't sing a song about their country, is there? About having love for their country? Is that wrong now too?It wasn't placed in a thread about another country, it was in a thread about some horrible things going on in this country, so I don't understand why that's bad? At some point I do believe Americans are going to have to come together and figure shit out. Other countries can't do it for us.

 

[kenny]

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Irving Berlin

God bless everyone on earth .... equally! ... not just MY gang!

I thought you were an atheist and I had no idea you were in a gang.

Sarcasm my friend, sarcasm.

 

[kenny]

there's no reason why someone can't sing a song about their country, is there? About having love for their country? Is that wrong now too?It wasn't placed in a thread about another country, it was in a thread about some horrible things going on in this country, so I don't understand why that's bad? At some point I do believe Americans are going to have to come together and figure shit out. Other countries can't do it for us.

Actually it would be nice to replace countries with one country of 7,386,185,023 citizens.

One planet, one people.
Groupism is bad.
Countries are usually born of violence, greed, and hunger for power.

Clearly I've benefited by being smart enough to get myself born into the US of A, but the whole system is unfair to the third-worlders who were not smart enough to get born into themselves born first world. (That was more sarcasm.)

That's why 'God Bless America" kinda of makes me want to puke.
It's like, "Gimme more more more!"
More More More for America leaves Less Less Less for other countries.

Manifest Destiny, and all that.

 

[kenny]

While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

God Bless America,
Land that I love.
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America, My home sweet home.

Irving Berlin

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky

Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

John Lennon

 

[packrat]

That's one of my all time favorite songs. I've loved it since I was little, and adults used to tell me I was too young to understand it. And maybe I really *don't* understand it. B/c I still don't understand why we can't have it be that way. Why do people have to act the way they do? I don't understand it.

But then again, I still don't understand why you can't sing a song about your country. No we're not the best thing since sliced bread, I've never thought that and I think it would be stupid to think that way. But I think we do have good points about us.

ETA Ozzy is a Dreamer too

Gazing through the window at the world outside
Wondering will mother earth survive
Hoping that mankind will stop abusing her sometime

After all there's only just the two of us
And here we are still fighting for our lives
Watching all of history repeat itself
Time after time

I'm just a dreamer
I dream my life away
I'm just a dreamer
Who dreams of better days

I watch the sun go down like everyone of us
I'm hoping that the dawn will bring a sign
A better place for those Who will come after us ...
This time

I'm just a dreamer
I dream my life away oh yeah
I'm just a dreamer
Who dreams of better days

Your higher power may be God or Jesus Christ
It doesn't really matter much to me
Without each others help there ain't no hope for us
I'm living in a dream of fantasy
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah

If only we could all just find serenity
It would be nice if we could live as one
When will all this anger, hate and bigotry ...
Be gone?

I'm just a dreamer
I dream my life away
Today
I'm just a dreamer
Who dreams of better days
Okay
I'm just a dreamer
Who's searching for the way
Today
I'm just a dreamer
Dreaming my life away
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah

 

[kenny]

But I think we do have good points about us.

I do too.

 

[hay joe]

Irving Berlin was born Israel Isidor Baline on May 11, 1888 in Mogilev, Belarus, Russian Empire.
John Lennon was born on October 9, 1940, in Liverpool, England.
John Michael "Ozzy" Osbourne was born in Birmingham, England.

All chose to come to the United States.


Kenny,
Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can? Your on Pricescope!
I am no friend of yours, My friends were chosen very carefully.
Go ahead and puke.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, ...I am no friend of yours,

Oh No! ... anything but that.
Everyone loving me is just priority 1!

 

[AGBF]

Ella warned us. As the person who started this thread, I am going to plead with everyone once more not to be discourteous because I do not want to see her close the thread. I, also, pledge not to be discourteous and not to make personal attacks.

Discussing politics here on Pricescope is a privilege, not a right. If we abuse it, we lose it.

AGBF

 

[JaneSmith]

It's like the crusades.

The president of Liberty University, a leading evangelical Christian college in Virginia, urged students to apply for concealed-weapons permits and said that if more people did so, then “we could end those Muslims."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/president-of-liberty-university-urges-students-to-get-gun-permits.html?_r=0


Say you're in a crowded mall and some person starts firing away, and you have your piece so you whip it out and take aim, but your adrenaline is surging and you shake a tiny bit so your first shot misses them and goes into a storefront window, and then someone bumps you as they are trying to get away from the shooting and you fire again, this time hitting an innocent, and then another person with a legal concealed carry gun takes aim at you because they think you are a second terrorist and just like that you're dead.

How the hell are you supposed to tell the terrorists from the civs? It's not like they have a big sign on their back, or are dressed in 'terrorist couture'. They don't all scream "allahu akbar" or "no more baby parts".

 

[the_mother_thing]

It's like the crusades.

The president of Liberty University, a leading evangelical Christian college in Virginia, urged students to apply for concealed-weapons permits and said that if more people did so, then “we could end those Muslims."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/president-of-liberty-university-urges-students-to-get-gun-permits.html?_r=0


Say you're in a crowded mall and some person starts firing away, and you have your piece so you whip it out and take aim, but your adrenaline is surging and you shake a tiny bit so your first shot misses them and goes into a storefront window, and then someone bumps you as they are trying to get away from the shooting and you fire again, this time hitting an innocent, and then another person with a legal concealed carry gun takes aim at you because they think you are a second terrorist and just like that you're dead.

How the hell are you supposed to tell the terrorists from the civs? It's not like they have a big sign on their back, or are dressed in 'terrorist couture'. They don't all scream "allahu akbar" or "no more baby parts".

Training. If you want to understand better, attend a CCW course sometime. They are reasonably priced (+/- $80), and you don't have to own or buy a firearm to attend/be educated on the subject. I'm not legally required to attend all of the training I take, but I feel it's part of being a responsible citizen to remain proficient with my firearms. And I am not alone in that practice.

 

[LaraOnline]

I came out of lurkdom to write a great long heartfelt post (all on my phone) then I saved it - too scared to post - and now darn it seems lost altogether.

Cutting right to it - I cannot believe the woman in the Christmas card is an elected, tax payer-supported legitimate politican. That photo looks seriously FRINGE WIERDO CULTY to me. I'm as conservative as they come these days - more than a decade in small business, handing many hundreds of thousands of blood-sweat dollars to the tax office, will do that. But I don't live in the US, so I don't identify 'gun rights' as a legitimate conservative cause at all. In fact, it's hardly socially acceptable. Gun-loving guy at the party? You'd avoid that guy. Because guns are murder weapons, that's the appeal and the reason for them, and that means guns are really anti social in the circles I live in. It's a world away from some of the comments on this interesting thread.

Even my Dad - a bonafide stockman - we lived without radio, without television, flying doctor once a month - he had one old bolt action rifle which lived in the ute. Well maintained and reliable, but he would never have dreamed of sweating over gun catalogues on a regular basis.

Anyway I'm sure my original post was a lot more eloquent.
I don't want to offend anyone. I just really wanted to express my surprise at that card, and the 'arms race' sub-culture that it inadvertently refers to.

 

[AGBF]

It's like the crusades.

The president of Liberty University, a leading evangelical Christian college in Virginia, urged students to apply for concealed-weapons permits and said that if more people did so, then “we could end those Muslims."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/06/us/president-of-liberty-university-urges-students-to-get-gun-permits.html?_r=0


Say you're in a crowded mall and some person starts firing away, and you have your piece so you whip it out and take aim, but your adrenaline is surging and you shake a tiny bit so your first shot misses them and goes into a storefront window, and then someone bumps you as they are trying to get away from the shooting and you fire again, this time hitting an innocent, and then another person with a legal concealed carry gun takes aim at you because they think you are a second terrorist and just like that you're dead.

How the hell are you supposed to tell the terrorists from the civs? It's not like they have a big sign on their back, or are dressed in 'terrorist couture'. They don't all scream "allahu akbar" or "no more baby parts".

Training. If you want to understand better, attend a CCW course sometime. They are reasonably priced (+/- $80), and you don't have to own or buy a firearm to attend/be educated on the subject. I'm not legally required to attend all of the training I take, but I feel it's part of being a responsible citizen to remain proficient with my firearms. And I am not alone in that practice.

To JCJ I want to say:

My goal in posting this is not to get you puffed up in your own esteem, however, if that is the result, so be it. If I remember correctly, you served in the military. That you are also responsible enough to continue to train beyond the requirements for firearms also puts you in another category from many gun owners.

If we cannot "get rid of" guns, one of my suggestions on how better to regulate their use would be to make courses such as the one you are describing mandatory for registered gun owners.

When I lived in Virginia, one of my friends was married to someone who was in a job that took him, from time to time, into combat zones. He was a former special forces guy, but was then in his 50's and didn't want to slow down his team. I remember him training rigorously in situations where he might have to pull a weapon or might not have to.

I know that all levels of training could be made available to gun owners and they could be trained to be far safer with their weapons than many of them now are.

As I said, I not referring to you, but even trained law enforcement officers make mistakes. Remember the incident of the policemen who shot the little girl instead of the dog a couple of months ago.

On another note:

I want to say that I am appalled at what Donald Trump has called for. It is, of course, unconstitutional, so we are in no danger of it coming to pass. Nonetheless, it is shameful. I have alluded to teaching a citizenship class, which I had to give up teaching when my father was hospitalized. Many of the lessons for the US citizenship test are about why immigrants first came to this land. Being unable to worship as they chose in Europe was one of the main reasons. The Founding Fathers made it clear that freedom of religion would be a right here.

Deb/AGBF

 

[ksinger]

I came out of lurkdom to write a great long heartfelt post (all on my phone) then I saved it - too scared to post - and now darn it seems lost altogether.

Cutting right to it - I cannot believe the woman in the Christmas card is an elected, tax payer-supported legitimate politican. That photo looks seriously FRINGE WIERDO CULTY to me. I'm as conservative as they come these days - more than a decade in small business, handing many hundreds of thousands of blood-sweat dollars to the tax office, will do that. But I don't live in the US, so I don't identify 'gun rights' as a legitimate conservative cause at all. In fact, it's hardly socially acceptable. Gun-loving guy at the party? You'd avoid that guy. Because guns are murder weapons, that's the appeal and the reason for them, and that means guns are really anti social in the circles I live in. It's a world away from some of the comments on this interesting thread.

Even my Dad - a bonafide stockman - we lived without radio, without television, flying doctor once a month - he had one old bolt action rifle which lived in the ute. Well maintained and reliable, but he would never have dreamed of sweating over gun catalogues on a regular basis.

Anyway I'm sure my original post was a lot more eloquent.
I don't want to offend anyone. I just really wanted to express my surprise at that card, and the 'arms race' sub-culture that it inadvertently refers to.

Your founding documents don't enshrine distrust of government. Ours do. And right now, THAT is the true driving force behind the explosion of gun sales, and don't let anyone tell you differently. Fun factor and utility are NOT driving this, I promise you that. Standing in line at a gun show and just listening to those in front and behind was really really enlightening - motivations have changed a BUNCH in 30 years. It's fear fear and more fear. A goodly portion of Americans are very very fearful these days. And what's the best way to face your fear and get a sense of control in a world seemingly careening out of control? Buy a gun!

Scared of Obama? Scared he's going say you might have to deal with any restriction on your ability to own a yuuuuge powerful gun? Get a gun. Scared of home invasion? Get a gun. Scared of black helicopters? Get a gun. Scared that someone in the government will know I have a gun? Hell, buy a freaking arsenal. And since I can't be in control unless I have a gun close in lethality to the well-armed forces arrayed against me, I need a more powerful gun - military tech if I can get it.

Yeah, your observation of an arms race is pretty spot on.

 

[Calliecake]

CJC,

I could not agree with you more about training. It scares the daylights out of me that firearms are being purchased with no training required what so ever. We need a license to drive and we need to register our vehicles why would the same rules not apply to purchasing a gun?

 

[packrat]

I wish we could have a real conversation w/out the digs.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Deb - yes, I was in the military. As for training, there is SOOOO much out there if you actually look. And from my experience, people ARE taking these courses, as demonstrated by the frequent wait list for many of them. There are so many gun clubs (private and public) that offer a multitude of varied levels of classes for pistols, rifles, personal defense/safety, hunting, even training for minors who can demonstrate a respect for safety and the danger firearms present. Our county even has a firearms education & training center that offers VERY affordable courses taught by licensed, certified trainers, as well as a range for proficiency training.

@Packrat - I couldn't agree more. Lumping all gun owners in with those with criminal intentions is not only ignorant but quite offensive.

 

[Maria D]

@Deb - yes, I was in the military. As for training, there is SOOOO much out there if you actually look. And from my experience, people ARE taking these courses, as demonstrated by the frequent wait list for many of them. There are so many gun clubs (private and public) that offer a multitude of varied levels of classes for pistols, rifles, personal defense/safety, hunting, even training for minors who can demonstrate a respect for safety and the danger firearms present. Our county even has a firearms education & training center that offers VERY affordable courses taught by licensed, certified trainers, as well as a range for proficiency training.

@Packrat - I couldn't agree more. Lumping all gun owners in with those with criminal intentions is not only ignorant but quite offensive.

Yes, a few days before his attack, Syed Farook was busy honing his skills at the gun range.

The assumption is not that all gun owners have criminal intentions. It's that making ALL types of guns, including those that are very near military grade weapons, easily available to all makes it much much easier for those WITH criminal intentions to get them.

 

[packrat]

It's actually easier and faster to get them illegally, which is how a lot of people who wish to do harm, go about it, than it is to buy them legally, which is how I get mine. But why quibble? That guy bringing in 15k a month selling illegal firearms, isn't getting that for the sale of one gun. Make it take 6 months, that becomes no hardship to me. Someone who wishes to do harm, however, will just circumvent that and be on his merry way.

Which is not to say that there shouldn't be laws/rules for criminals to circumnavigate-let's just please not think it's going to solve the worlds problems.

 

[Maria D]

It's actually easier and faster to get them illegally, which is how a lot of people who wish to do harm, go about it, than it is to buy them legally, which is how I get mine. But why quibble? That guy bringing in 15k a month selling illegal firearms, isn't getting that for the sale of one gun. Make it take 6 months, that becomes no hardship to me. Someone who wishes to do harm, however, will just circumvent that and be on his merry way.

Which is not to say that there shouldn't be laws/rules for criminals to circumnavigate-let's just please not think it's going to solve the worlds problems.

I don't know what the people who are buying from "that guy" are doing with their guns, but Farook, Harper-Mercer, Flanagan, Houser, Roof, Fryberg, Lopez, Alexis, and Lanza's mother, to name a few, all bought the guns used in their killing sprees from legal vendors.