Overwhelmed looking for a high quality sapphire

[chrono]

Sebas,
If the window is small (not apparent when on the hand or "closes up" in the setting) and that is its only flaw, that is an acceptable stone. Eliminating them from your options only increases the difficulty of your search.

 

[sebas]

Three sapphires similarly prices 2-2.45ct under mostly overcast morning and evening (more sparkly in showroom obviously):

Comments, favorite?

1. http://youtu.be/Ngn11ST_yjY

2. http://youtu.be/vAFnUb-1sSQ

3. http://youtu.be/zgRFKhC9xRM

 

[minousbijoux]

Sebastian:

I want to start by congratulating you. In a fairly short period of time, you have become fairly knowledgable about sapphires. It is impressive to see the great difference between the sapphires you were considering in the beginning of this thread, versus those you just added. Congratulations! The three were all lovely, highly saturated stones.

I have some questions for you and then I'll give you my feedback. First off, of the three, do you have a preference? Second, were they all in consistent lighting (it appeared that they were all taken in a similar spot - was the time of day and lighting the same)? Third, in the first video, the look of the sapphire changes around 1:42, I believe. Do you remember the lighting condition at that time? Finally, does extinction or color zoning bother you, and if so, does one concern you more than the other?

IMO, I would drop the third one out based on the video. While much prettier and more saturated than the vast majority of sapphires in the world, it appeared darker in tone - sometimes so dark as to almost lose its color - in a good portion of the video.

That leaves sapphire one and two. Sapphire one has a drop dead, vivid and gorgeous color. It seemed to do well in most of video lighting, but lost some of its luster and bright quality around 1:42. I would check what caused that change and make sure that's not your typical lighting, as the sapphire did seem to close up. Also, and maybe more of a deal killer for you, it has the 1/2 and 1/2 extinction so common for oval cuts. That said, it is not like half of your sapphire completely blacks out, it just turns a much deeper shade of blue. It is noticeable. I don't know. sometimes I almost enjoy 1/2 and 1/2 extinction because of its seemingly perfect symmetry. However, It really is considered a drawback and you would be wise to consider it as such when it comes to pricing. BUT if it doesn't bother you/your fiance, then so much the better!

Sapphire two is also a deep vivid blue, but it seems unequal in color. I see zoning or a dark patch in one quadrant of the stone in most lighting situations in the video. Have you had a chance to loupe them, and particularly this one, to see what is going on?

Again, congratulations on coming a long way quickly. Even if its not one of these, I would say you're pretty close to finding "the one!"

 

[Justin_Cutter]

1. Is my pick.

~Justin

 

[sebas]

Thanks for the feedback.

#1 was a completely new sapphire shown to me on Saturday. Cost is $5500. Heated. 2.36ct.
#2 was the same one previously shown as #1. Cost is $4750. Unheated. 2.02ct. This was the favorite previously.
#3 is out for me as well. #3 was the one from Bruce Bridges that I ordered online. It is too dark for where I live. Maybe in Florida or Thailand it would be better.

I am/was debating between #1 and #2. I thought #1 had more sparkle during daylight and overcast conditions, but #2 maybe had a nicer blue glow. Both sparkled beautifully in the showroom.

I'm really on the fence. I lean toward #2 because I felt it had slightly less half/half extinction than #1 and is unheated and is a bit less expensive. So yes, half/half extinction bothers me. I have 30 days to return at full refund #2. I returned #1. I am debating whether to keep looking for something that is similar to #1 and #2, but has qualities seen in both.

 

[sebas]

I should also say that the iPhone 4GS colors are not exactly the same as what I see. Anyone have any ideas how to calibrate iPhone 4GS camera? I might try my Sony camera and see if the colors are more true.

 

[chrono]

Stone 3 is out of the running by virtue of being overly dark to the point where all I see is mostly blue flash. It would do better in a summery and very bright locale to lighten it up.

A close call between 1 and 2. Both suffer greatly from the dreaded half and half. If pressed, my choice is Sapphire 1 because the colouration is slightly better, slightly more sparkly and slightly less darkness when you turn it just right. Either way, such a look is a deal breaker for me, moreso at that price. I'm sorry.

 

[sebas]

Minousbijoux> at 1:42 the video was innthe morning overcast and before 1:42 was late afternoon/evening overcast. Preference was 2 because of less half/half extinction.

Chrono> bummer. I would like to find one with no half/half extinction. :-/

I am surprised you guys preferred 1 over 2 given the more noticeable half/half extinction...

Any suggestions of sapphires I should take a look?

 

[sebas]

Should I order this one? I'm worried that something considered royal blue in bangkok will be super dark in northern California.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-2.10-carats.html

 

[Starzin]

That 4th one looks too dark in the still photo and hints of that show in the last few seconds of the video which, don't forget, is floodlit to look it's best.

So yes, half/half extinction bothers me. I have 30 days to return at full refund #2. I returned #1. I am debating whether to keep looking for something that is similar to #1 and #2, but has qualities seen in both.

While #1 and #2 both have excellent colour, since the extinction does bother you and they both show it no matter what orientation I'm sorry to say I'd keep looking, especially at that price

 

[sebas]

Thanks Starzin.

Has anyone found a vendor who has sold an oval without half/half extinction? Maybe can start there.

 

[chrono]

Minousbijoux> at 1:42 the video was innthe morning overcast and before 1:42 was late afternoon/evening overcast. Preference was 2 because of less half/half extinction.

Chrono> bummer. I would like to find one with no half/half extinction. :-/

I am surprised you guys preferred 1 over 2 given the more noticeable half/half extinction...

Any suggestions of sapphires I should take a look?

When the extinction is almost equal (on the videos anyway), the colour of sapphire 1 trumps sapphire 2, hence our vote.

 

[chrono]

Should I order this one? I'm worried that something considered royal blue in bangkok will be super dark in northern California.

http://www.ajsgem.com/sapphire/blue-sapphire/blue-sapphire-2.10-carats.html

Maybe I'm getting all confused with multiple concurrent blue sapphire threads the last month or so, but didn't a PSer view this sapphire in person and found it WAY too dark in person? I think she also said something about them possibly flooding the sapphire with light so it looks brighter in the video.

 

[sebas]

I think Emcee saw a round sapphire from AJS and it turned out too dark or maybe it was someone else.

 

[chrono]

Yes, you are correct. I do think the stone is also well lit too so expect to see a darker stone at your location.

 

[minousbijoux]

I'm sorry, I know this is frustrating for you

The other thing just to note about the latest AJS sapphire you show is that it is quite deep, which means that for a comparable weighing stone, it might face up smaller than you anticipate.

You seem to be after a highly saturated stone. I can't recall where you are, but any chance you could go to an Intergem show?

 

[sebas]

October 12 in San Mateo but it is a bead show.

 

[gemseeker2012]

I'm sure you've already looked into this, because it seems like your search has been pretty extensive, but did you look at Pala gems? They seem to have some nice things. They only sell to jewelers, so perhaps you could pick some things out and ask someone local to order them for you? Just a thought from a fellow frustrated hunter Good luck!

Also, this may be a bit big and light, but the color looks appealing to me:
http://www.rwwise.com/products/id%7C1772

 

[sebas]

Thanks for the recommendation. One of my local jewelers orders some from Pala, but it was really disappointing and expensive what I saw. The sapphires I looked at had large windows or were not very bright.

I talked with Richard Wise, but he has a smaller inventory that doesn't have what I am looking for (size, prize, etc.). The one you pointed out looks nice, but I think was way above my budget and is also quite deep (6.02mm).

 

[sebas]

I just wanted to say again thanks for all the great suggestions. I'll keep looking!

 

[sebas]

This is what a vendor said:

"I looked over the ovals you sent
and have to say that if you are looking for a fine colour you should
most likely look for a round. While neither of them were great (zoning,
washing out, etc.) what you are classifying as half and half extinction
is very difficult to avoid in an oval of good saturation. If you step
down a shade in tone then that change, but then colour would be far from
optimal, so it's give and take.

Just as a point of interest, fine blue sapphire prices have gone up
considerably recently and high quality material is very sought after.
The top quality shipment from Sri Lanka arrived on Friday with gorgeous
pieces and I sold the entire parcel today. My advice is unless you have
to have a piece right now, take some time for the market to readjust.
"

So this was a bit frustrating for me. I keep hearing from vendors that prices are up, but I also hear from here that the ovals I looked at are overpriced. The icing on the cake is that this vendor does not think it is possible to avoid half and half extinction and have good saturation in an oval.

Does anyone have an example of an oval with good color, brightness and little half/half extinction that was under $6k?

 

[sebas]

sonomacounty started an interesting thread about ovals.... love em or hate em.

I'm debating whether I should start looking at a different shape. I think a round or square cushion won't have the half/half extinction going on.

However, Chrono mentioned in a thread that "Have to shop very hard to find one without the half and half." making me believe that ovals without the half and half do exist. I guess the length to width ratio should be closer to 1.2 so that the chancels of half/half extinction are less.

 

[TheElms]

You seem to have good relationships with the b&M stores, why not ask them to rind you a top quality round stone or cushion and have it in person to compare to an oval?

When I started looking I was dead set on a square cushion, but I also wanted a specific color and an excellent cut. Talk about impossible. I realized that I cared most about color, then cut, and that there were other shapes that I liked enough. I really didn't think I would until I saw them side by side in a store.

Also maybe there is something you can do to the setting to make it more oval like. In my case I'm planning to set my round brilliant in a cushion halo.

Just a thought...

 

[chrono]

Rounds are even harder to come by because that shape is very popular - few cutting issues plus easy to set. There are certain oval designs that perform well, such as the supernova but that means precision cutting which adds another level of challenge to your search.

 

[sebas]

What do you guys think of this one?

Is it a potentially good one? Less half/half extinction?

http://youtu.be/JS2xPw7tpNA

 

[Michael_E]

Chrono> bummer. I would like to find one with no half/half extinction. :-/

I am surprised you guys preferred 1 over 2 given the more noticeable half/half extinction...

Half and half extinction? If you mention this in a group of professionals, they would either laugh you out of the room or take pity on you and explain that the half and half extinction that seems to bother so many people on this forum is actually a good thing and shows that the stone has a relatively symmetrical pavilion. The half and half effect comes from the lighting in the room. The videos shown have a window on one side of the room where most of the light is coming from. Since it's entering the stone from one side it can only exit from the other side. If the images were taken with the stone facing the window, that half and half effect would disappear. A better way to view, or photograph, a stone is under evenly lit conditions, ( the least expensive of which is out side on a bright overcast day). Please don't use this half and half deal to assess the cut quality of a gem, since it is the wrong way to look at this effect.

 

[minousbijoux]

Michael:

I am glad to see you posting again, even if we are frustrating you! Thanks for posting and setting the record straight. Please keep posting.

 

[chrono]

Michael,
Then answer me this: why do I have other precision cut ovals that do not show this shadowing? Why must the stone need a specific lighting condition in order to look good? Why must I have to work so hard to make the stone's coloration even? This does not make any sense to me at all. Why sacrifice even colouration under most lighting condition for this supposed perfect symmetry (when others have done so without this sacrifice)? Why must the stone be half in darkness for this symmetry? Why not show perfect symmetry in evenness of faceting AND having the stone show even colouration? Rarely will the light always be evenly spread. There will always be a side source, be it a lamp, a wall light, a window or even the sun. To ask that the wearer only be able to see the full colour facing the window is simply ridiculous! Laugh and pity me all you like but when I pay the full price of a stone, I want to see the full stone and not half the stone. When I pay full price for the stone, it should perform for me and not have me work hard half the time to see its full colour.

 

[Starzin]

Thanks Michael. I remember Gene saying something similar many moons ago and have always tried to remember it but the fact remains that no matter whether the gem costs $500 or $50,000 most people will want to see the gem sparkle with colour. To me that means light and dark movement around the stone, not one half then the other

While our use of the term extinction may not be the correct one (as against "dead" spots) I think we use it as a shorthand term for the dreaded half and half because it's just so prevalent - particularly in ovals - and so, well, annoying!.

Chrono has covered the rest of my thoughts exactly so there's no point in me repeating them.

 

[sebas]

Hi Chrono and Starzin > I totally agree with what you guys said. For me, my selection of a sapphire depends on how it does in all lighting conditions under real life conditions. I am sure you can find just the right lighting and/or angle, but that's not giving one the full picture. I don't want to work at finding the blue tone.

However, Michael has a valid point. There may not be a cut that gets rid of the half/half shadow effect and you might as well have perfect symmetry in the cut. To date, I have not seen an oval sapphire without the half/half shadow effect under real lighting conditions. I've heard on here that it is possible, but I have never seen a video of a sapphire proving it. In fact, one of the oval sapphires I sampled did not have much of the half/half shadow effect at 1pm on a sunny day, but did at 5pm or under other lighting conditions. I question if it is possible to have an oval without severe half/half shadow effect under all lighting conditions.

Does anyone have a video of a sapphire that does not have the half/half shadow effect that I can see? Someone must have a $20k+ oval blue sapphire, right?

Chrono > Did you ever purchase an oval blue sapphire without the half/half shadow effect?