Pet advice

[Samantha Red]

Date: 9/14/2007 12:08:19 PM
Author: ericad
Samantha, to be frank I believe that any shelter dog would say he''d rather be home alone than killed. And I also need to point out that I have 2 dogs and on the weekends when I am home with them they ask to go out once in the morning and don''t even want to go out again until late in the afternoon - even when I offer to take them. 8 hours is fine for them - not cruel or inhumane, but in keeping with their needs. They spend their days sleeping - not drinking 6-packs of beer, for pete''s sake! Your argument is based on the assumption that the dog''s bladder is constantly full and therefore he is being asked to live in discomfort. That''s ridiculous.

Are you suggesting that anyone who adopt a dog become a stay at home dog-mom? That''s awfully extreme! If we all had to do that in order to keep dogs, well there would be a lot more euthanised pets in the world. And I resent the implication that I am less than a responsible and loving pet owner simply because my dogs spend time alone. That''s very judgmental of you!

I am sorry you feel I judged you, I don''t, but I feel sometimes people (Not necessarily you) need to think before they get a dog. I have recently had to take on my SIL''s chocolate lab, because they are splitting up and she was totally wired when I got her. They left her in a crate all day, apart from a five minute loo break at midday and she was seriously messed with lots of energy not burnt off. In 8 weeks she has lost 16 pounds in weight and become a calm, loving animal. This may help you see why I have such a strong opionion on this. I just feel that an element of sacrifice is in order to what we want sometimes - just like having kids.

Just because people love their dogs, doesn''t mean they are giving them a good life. Just look at obese dogs that are literally being loved to death

 

[Samantha Red]

Date: 9/14/2007 12:19:24 PM
Author: poptart
Wow, lots of responses!

Samantha Red: I respect your opinion, although I don''t agree that people who work full time are somehow being unkowingly cruel to their dogs. My aunt is an animal lover EXTREME and both she and her husband work full time. All of their animals seem very happy as they are all rescued, and enjoy a safe and loving home. I understand where you are coming from though, as all too often people don''t think things through enough before they act. May I ask, now that you have more than one dog, do you work full time now?


I have also been thinking that I could get two small dogs and that way they really wouldn''t be alone all day. I have been leaning toward shih tzu rescue, and found a great website with lots of information and very strict guidelines.

I will reply a little later to everyone, as it seems I have run out of time at the moment. Thank you all for your responses, I''ll write later!

*M*

Hi Poptart

I have never worked full time since having dogs. In fact now, thanks to my wonderful F1 I only work four short mornings. We are not wealthy, we make many sacrifices to have our animals. TPart time working was particuarly difficult for me when my ex-husband left me on my own. I always said I would eat beans rather than have to work full time - my choice entirely though. As I said before loving your dogs does not necessarily equate to giving them a good home and a good doggy life. Dogs are primarily a pack animal and need their pack around them to be really happy and fulfilled. People also have blatantly unsuitable dogs because they like the look of them like some sort of fashion accessory - my soon to be ex SIL was a perfect example. Having a choccie lab because other people had them and not being able to cope.

 

[ljmorgan]

Haha, you could always do what we did -- we have two chihuahuas that can play all day while we''re gone, and they''re both litterbox trained

No need to let them out during the day, but they get loooong walks in the morning and the afternoon because they are lazy!

 

[bee*]

I also wouldn''t leave my dogs all day long. Im quite lucky in that there''s someone home nearly all the time so our dogs are very rarely left for more than 2 hours. I think getting someone in to walk them a couple of times a day is great especially if your dog will be by itself all day. As others have said, they are pack animals and they do need company. I think adopting an older dog would be great as puppies would require a lot of attention.

 

[gailrmv]

Everything I've read about dogs (and I read plenty before adopting my two) says that they can stay alone for up to 8 hours, as adults. With my current job I can telecommute occasionally and when I do, the dogs mostly just sleep during the day. They don't need my constant attention or entertainment. I usually take them out once or twice during the day if I am home, in addition to early morning walk and evening walk. When I leave them during my workday, they seem fine when I get home. I think it is not right for a person to leave their dog for hours and hours on end, but this can be remedied with a dogwalker, or exchange dog favors with a neighbor. I don't think you have to work part time or not work in order to be a good dog parent. Hey, many people cannot or do not choose to do this for their human kids.

Poptart, one idea is to get involved with a shelter or rescue group and foster a pet. You will be doing a good service for this animal while experiencing having a pet, yet not making a long term commitment. (Fostering usually means giving the pet a good home temporarily and taking it to adoption events until a permanent home becomes available. Usually the shelter or organization pays for any vet care needed.)

 

[waterlilly]

Hi! I have two dogs from a shelter. One option, if you are certain you are up for the responsibility of dog in general...is to get two small dogs. With small dogs, you can train them to eliminate on 'pee pee pads' if you have an appropriate area in your home for this (i.e a hard floor in the bathroom or laundry room area. Two dogs keep eachother company and help provide exercise. You HAVE to consider noise, however, all dogs bark and this could be a problem for you neighbors regardless of how many or how big your dog is!
Ferrets can be quite smelly (read up about their scent glands) not all vets are knowledgeable about their care, and are not legal in all states so be sure to do a ton of reading before venturing into owning one and be sure you have a vet in your area that specializes in them.
.
Best of luck, I know how strong the urge can be when you want a pet to love!

Also, the thought that owning a dog and working all day is "cruel" is total BS. Especially if you have more than one dog. Your dog(s) will establish a routine according to your schedule - that involves sleeping pretty much ALL day while you are gone. You have to be commited to giving them adequate exercise every day if you are going to be gone for 8+ hours, that is the trade off. Working all day means you have to give them a chunk of your time when you get home, if you are willing to commit to that, you are in no way being cruel.

Place that don't adopt to people who work full time annoy the living daylights out of me. They'd rather have a dog sit in a shelter all day than sleep on someones sofa all day. Yeah, makes lots of sense. These places are totally off base and do nothing but increase the amount of people who turn to pet stores to buy puppy mill dogs.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 9/19/2007 12:09:15 PM
Author: waterlilly
Hi! I have two dogs from a shelter. One option, if you are certain you are up for the responsibility of dog in general...is to get two small dogs. With small dogs, you can train them to eliminate on ''pee pee pads'' if you have an appropriate area in your home for this (i.e a hard floor in the bathroom or laundry room area. Two dogs keep eachother company and help provide exercise. You HAVE to consider noise, however, all dogs bark and this could be a problem for you neighbors regardless of how many or how big your dog is!
Ferrets can be quite smelly (read up about their scent glands) not all vets are knowledgeable about their care, and are not legal in all states so be sure to do a ton of reading before venturing into owning one and be sure you have a vet in your area that specializes in them.
.
Best of luck, I know how strong the urge can be when you want a pet to love!

Also, the thought that owning a dog and working all day is ''cruel'' is total BS. Especially if you have more than one dog. Your dog(s) will establish a routine according to your schedule - that involves sleeping pretty much ALL day while you are gone. You have to be commited to giving them adequate exercise every day if you are going to be gone for 8+ hours, that is the trade off. Working all day means you have to give them a chunk of your time when you get home, if you are willing to commit to that, you are in no way being cruel.

Place that don''t adopt to people who work full time annoy the living daylights out of me. They''d rather have a dog sit in a shelter all day than sleep on someones sofa all day. Yeah, makes lots of sense. These places are totally off base and do nothing but increase the amount of people who turn to pet stores to buy puppy mill dogs.

I agree! One of my friends is trying to adopt a dog through a shelter or rescue organization. She works pretty long hours but a lot of the time from home, and is rarely/never gone more than 8 hours at a time. Multiple agencies have turned her down and why? She has no fenced in yard. That''s right, she has a spacious house, and is willing to install invisible fence, and plans to take the dog for daily walks and visits to the dog park but that is not good enough! I''d much rather see a dog go to her, and I know she would give it a great home, than to sit at a shelter or foster home that could be serving OTHER dogs!

 

[poptart]

Thank you all for your responses! Luckily we have a lot of time to figure this all out, since we are still in the process of moving. Working part time is not an option right now, although my husband often does get off earlier than his designated working hours, so he might be home in the middle of the day more than I anticipated. I had never considered getting a foster dog, but that is a really good idea to see if our schedules and the dog(s) mesh. I really feel like getting two dogs would be a good idea, although we are moving just a couple condos down from our friend who has a dog, so the two of them could play together all day while we are all at work. I will look around for shelters that seem good.

I don''t agree that people need to be home all day to care for their pets, but I also don''t want to underestimate the impact our schedules would have on our pet(s). I guess it also depends quite a bit on the training, personality, and age of the dog as well, since some need constant stimulation and attention, while others are happy to just laze around all day. I guess right now I will just keep looking, reading up on things, and taking all of you PSer''s wonderful advice. Thanks!

*M*

 

[KtIceRN]

I just wanted to say that I have 2 dogs, both Shih Tzu''s. I have always wanted a dog and when my DH and I were settled in our home we decided to get a dog. So I got my baby girl Onyx. Boy I love spending every possible minute with her when she came home with us. I would come home early if possible and delay doing errands just to be with her. But needless to say I have to work. I am a nurse and have a 48hr regular scheduled work week and my DH at the time was working 2 jobs. So when she was just about 4 months old I felt very bad about leaving her home by herself for 8 hours a day. So we decided that she needed a friend. We got out little man Boomer and they have been best buds ever since (they are 2 1/2 now). They spend all of there time together. When we are home they are with us at all times, sleeping playing and eating. They don''t want to play every minute and shih tzu''s as a breed do not require alot of exercise. I take them out about every 8 hours whether I am home, have been at work, out just out. They are used to it. They know that they will get to go out and do business and have no problems holding it.
I suggest if you have to leave a dog home for 8hrs and you can afford it try and get two dogs. They really enjoy each other and form a very close bond.
KT

 

[KtIceRN]

...

 

[poptart]

They are SO CUTE!!! I love them! I think we can afford two dogs... is there like a dog calculator, lol? Or an average that dogs cost... I think I read that somewhere but don''t remember the figure. I think having each other to keep them company is a great solution. I''m glad to hear they can hold it 8 hours. If DH is not at home or has duty for some reason, then the dogs would have to stay in for 9 hours, not 8... and that could be bad. Hmm.

*M*

 

[ljmorgan]

If you''re going to be gone for 8 hours straight, you need to consider some sort of doggy door. CAN a dog hold their bladder for 8 hours? Yes, most of the time. Is it comfortable? If you can''t go to the bathroom for 8 hours, how would that be? Just something to think about. I am not one of the folks saying "its cruel to leave animals" but you do need to think about bathroom logistics. Small dogs especially can have a difficult time "holding it" and I don''t think it''s fair that they should have to hold it for 6, 7, 8, 9 hours. You can ask your vet about the complications of dogs who frequently try to hold their bladder/movements for long periods of time -- they can get bladder infections, terrible constipation, etc.

 

[Mara]

i agree lindsey...while we have left P alone a few times for up to 8 hours it has been maybe 2-3 times in 3+ years. and the first thing we do when we come home is come in and take her out. and i always feel so guilty. i'd definitely not feel good about her staying alone daily for 8 hours alone...or even with another dog. now that we are such good friends with our neighbors, recently we were going to be gone for 9 hours up to SF and doing things with my family so i asked them to take her out in the middle and they did which was great. i know she can hold it for that long but i don't want her to HAVE to.

dogs can be expensive as well...but it really depends on what you feel is the way to go. for example, portia's daycare is about 400 a month which is pretty pricey...but it's peace of mind for me. for her food we spend almost 100 a month. but she gets a top rated dog food and all types of organic treat type stuff and things with vitamins for her bones and joints etc. vet visits can be $50-300 depending, once she had some medicine she was taking ($50) and she was allergic so i had to get another medicine for her ($50) and the vet visits were $50 each time. so it can be pricey sometimes. i have a friend who has a 2 year old dog that they adore and she recently had cancer, they spent $10k giving the dog treatments until she was finally cancer free.

i wouldn't not get a dog because you work full time or whatever, a ton of people i know have dogs who work full time. just make sure to take care of your dog the way you'd like to be taken care of if you were that pet. companionship is important, ability to go to the bathroom is important, etc. as i mentioned previously i have a friend who has a dog walker come i think 2x a day and she only pays like 12 a day. so it's about 200 a month which is much better than our 400...but portia loves her daycare and it's super close to our house and i like the social interaction she gets with the other dogs...i have seen a lot of dogs who aren't socially trained with other dogs and they can get snippy, snarly, etc.

anyhow, i would def continue to consider it and i think you'll probably know when the time is right.

 

[diamondfan]

Pop, I think daycare is a nice option, as is a dog walker. There are services that come to you, walk your dog, play with your dog, etc. I am not sure if they are bonded and insured and the like, and it might be tough to find someone reliable and trustworthy, but that also might be nice. I too feel it is tough if you are gone for long periods, but agree that if you are saving the dogs life, it is a nicer alternative. A small trained older dog might be fine with it, not too sure, but accidents could still happen. Is hubby closer to your condo, so maybe he could come home mid day? You are clearly not close enough to do so, but I would look into daycare like Lorelei suggested, or into pet sitters. I know people who have kennel phobic dogs and when they travel they have someone come in a couple times a day to check their dogs and walk them etc.

 

[Kaleigh]

I have a woman that owns a pet sitting business, For Pet's Sake. She was referred to me by one of my best friends. She does whatever is needed. Pet sitters, dog walkers charge a lot less than doggie Day care. I've had mine for over 10 years. If I am gone for a day trip she comes once a day, when I am on vacay she comes 3 times a day. She collects the mail, turns on the lights, puts the trash out, takes them to the groomer. She's been awesome. I can leave feeling all is taken care of whether it's for the day or for the week.

Oh and another plug for having 2 dogs. Mine live for each other.

 

[cpster]

Just wanted to chime in that we use these pads and they are fabulous. We just put them in our large laundry room since we don't have our own yard. Not sure where you are, but they are cheaper at Walmart. Our furbaby Shih Tzu goes whenever she wants and they are so easy to just pick up and dispose. I do think it's a bit much to expect a dog to hold it for 8 or 9 hours...I surely wouldn't like that!

Please note that if you are still considering a Shih Tzu that they require lots of grooming and may need special eye drops (dry eye is common). We love ours a lot and she gives a lot in return. Vet visits can be expensive though, but she's totally worth it. She's getting a bit older, even though she still looks like she's two, so we've been going more often these days. She's got really bad allergies. Each time we go I'm lucky if we get out of there under $250.

For any breed, please take the time to read up on what common health problems for the breed are so you know what to expect. Good luck!

 

[KtIceRN]

I just wanted to let you guys know that alot of the times I have a hard time getting my dogs to go pee even after the 8 hours. My boy is much easier then the girl but they both can be tough. I have to stay outside with her for sometimes 15 minuted before she will go. That being said they have never had any urinary infections, kidney problems, constipation or any problems at all. The vet we go to is aware and has never said that it is bad. I don''t like having to not let them out for 8 hours but sometimes it can''t be helped. My dogs are very happy and well adjusted. I love them both to death and if I thought that it was too hard for them or they were being hurt in any way from it I would definitely make a change and hire someone ect. So although it may not be a perfect situation for everyone it works for us. I don''t think that I am being cruel or mean to them and they certainly don''t act like they think I am.

Now if I won the lottery and didn''t have to be away from them at all.... boy oh boy would they be the biggest spoiled doggies ever!!!

I do agree about the grooming cost. I pay $100 every 6 weeks just for haircuts. Vet bills although we only go once a year are usually about 250 each do for routine exams. Food and treats can be expensive cause we feed them healthy treats and highly rated food.

KT

 

[waterlilly]

I agree 100% about training a small dog to use the "pee pee pads" they are very affordable, and you really need a "backup" plan to let your pup "go" if you are gone during the day. This is a fantastic way to be sure your pup is going to be comfortable if something unexpected comes up - emergency or work issues that keep you away later than expected. When a dog knows they aren't supposed to go on the floor or in their crate, but are forced to if you can not make it home in time, it can be a very stressful experience for them - doing something they know is "bad" behavior.
We have a doggy door leading to a small fenced in area in our yard to let our pups go as they wish during the day. We never worry about getting home in time, because we know they go when they need to and have plenty of food/water/shelter and each other if we have late days at work. You can build a simple fenced in area (complete with top so they can't climb out and nothing can get in), only needs to be a few feet wide/long and slightly taller than they are, frame it using some 2x4 lumber and chicken wire, can literally be a caged "box" that you attach to a doggie door giving them enough room to go out and do their business.
If you have a deck, you can do the same, put a doggie door leading to that with some pads or a kiddie pool turned "dog litter box", as long as they can not escape anywhere from the deck, you are golden!

Also, this is just a side topic, my sister recently lost her pup of 12 years to a horrible freak accident, his collar became stuck on an air vent on the floor, and he choked himself. I never let my dogs wear their collars in the house - ever. They are both microchipped. There are "quick release" collars for dogs, so if you insist your dog wear their collar at home when you aren't there, I highly suggest looking in to getting one of these safety collars.

 

[poptart]

Ok, so I was looking around on the internet at the pee pads that some of you had mentioned, and I foundthis! It is like a dog litter box and seems much less messy than just putting having the pee pad itself. That way things seem like they would stay cleaner and then everyone is happy right?

To answer some questions, I would put a doggy door in the new condo, but we still rent so that''s a no go. Not to mention the yards are connected by common fences so that the landscape people can go through and mow the lawn... in which case the dogs could not be outside. I also think we could put them into daycare a couple days a week, and if my husband gets off early then he could let them out and walk the dog before I get home. I''m just still thinking about the logistics... so we''ll see. I''ll keep all of you updated! We move in two weeks!! Yay!

*M*

 

[ljmorgan]

That box looks like an interesting concept, both of my chihuahuas are litter box trained. In the pee pad section you will find litter boxes designed for dogs, and "litter" made of tightly compacted pieces od newspaper. It would be a good idea as others mentioned to have a backup plan if you insist being gone for 8+ hours. But I will say that at least while they''re puppies... they need to go several times throughout the day, you can''t just stick them in a crate without using the bathroom, plus they won''t just figure out the pad/litterbox all day while you''re gone.

We used a pen method with both of our puppies, which we got 2 years apart. For litter box training, while you''re gone during the day, you confine them to a very, very small room (a half bath) or a play pen (what we used.) In one corner you''ll put there bed, in another their food/water, in another their toys, in another their litterbox. The pen is small enough that if you have been training them to use the box, they will use it on their own in the pen. After a few months of no accidents, we now let both of ours roam free in the house while we''re gone, and they have a crate they can crawl into to sleep in.

Then pen method would be idea for pee pads too. Otherwise you''ll come home to a lot of accidents before they''re fully trained

Another thing in deciding how you will train them, is that smaller dogs DO take longer to potty train, and they DO have smaller bladders. Also, it takes longer to train a dog to user a pad/litter box consistently, because it is easier for dogs to figure out "ohhh, I''m only aloud to go outside" rather than "ohhh, I can only go in this very specific part of my house." So if you get a small dog and train them to go indoors, it does take a lot of work!

 

[poptart]

Thanks for your advice! I just wanted to clarify that we aren''t going to get a puppy because I know that we don''t have the proper free time to train it. Also, there are many adult dogs out there that need good homes, so we are going to do that first!

*M*

 

[curiopotter]

poptart,

Adopting a shelter dog can be an ardous process. TanDogMom touched on this slightly, but she's right.

Most of them need a fenced in yard, and won't adopt their dogs out to people who are gone long hours. And in reality, it's not a bad rule.. shelter dogs need a lot of support. They're all different, with different rules, but mentioning the doggie day-care may sway them.

Just give them a call so you're aware of the process. It'll save you a lot of headache once you know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[waterlilly]

many city shelters will not put you through the ringer, they are just happy to put their dogs in loving homes. what is the closest city to you?

 

[poptart]

Thanks for the heads up Curiopotter! We live in the city, so I guess we could just go to a local shelter. I will probably go to the one that my friend got her dog at since she was really pleased with them and she is a stickler about many things.

*M*