PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 4:57:24 PM
Author: dreamer_d

OK, no one is gonna like what I am going to say, but from observing my friends who have kids who still don''t STTN at 1.5 or 2 years or more... I think that inconsistency is the culprit. Some of the methods that get talked about here take a week two weeks or longer to work. And in that week, you have to be a total hard ass and stick to your guns, and sit there sweating while your baby cries or be up all nigth doing to pick up put down. And on and on. Of course temperament interacts. That is why baby A starts sleeping through the night on his own and baby B need to be trained. That is why baby C responds to the methods in one night and baby D takes 8 days. But I think that teaching your kid to sleep is HARD. It takes patience, and stamina, and willpower, and faith that what you are doing is right. And all sorts of things that are hard to muster.

There are a million diet books not because dieting doesn''t work, but because actually following the program is hard

Some diets are stupid, for sure, like some baby sleep books, but in the end it is possible to lose weight for anyone. And it is *possible* for any parent to have a baby who STTN. It all depends on their choices.

And lest I seem cold or superiour, I did not want to do what I knew was necessary either, and thus had a baby waking 4 times a night until he was 9 months old. That was the right time for me to bite the bullet and use CIO. Other people don''t want to use such methods, and that''s ok too. With baby number two I will probably also wait until 9 months, but time will tell.

Hee, dreamer...good thing you''re around...I can let you say the pointed stuff.

Consistency IS key, and based on my observations, many, many people don''t have the disposition to stick things out when it comes to their kids because, as you said, it''s really really hard.

But speaking of diet...er, I''m one of those inconsistent people!!!

I swear, if I was as consistent about some things for me vs for my child, I''d be supermodel skinny!

Fiery, Amelia was on a similar schedule at Sophia''s age. The nap time varied from Sophia''s, and she woke up at 7 vs 9, but the amount of naps and general period of wakefulness were about the same.

 

[ChinaCat]

TGal- Good answer, as usual. I think you put into (better) words what I was trying to say about temperment vs. routine. And yes, SABINE is one that comes to mind.

I definitely believe that CIO works. It''s just a matter of when it''s appropriately used. When my BFF told me how often her daughter got up at 6 months I almost fell off my chair. I definitely THINK I would have used CIO by then for my own sanity. But I didn''t have a high needs baby that was in pain a lot, so it''s hard to say.

Steph- Honestly, if he''s sleeping at night, I wouldn''t probably do too much about it!!!!! It will change quickly, remember? I am trying to think of what we used. Swing A LOT. Boppy. Bouncy chair (which he really wasn''t into, but allowed me to take a shower). Oh, a lot of times I just propped him up on my legs and sang ABC''s to him, did the Itsy Bitsy Spider with his hands, that kind of thing. We went on a lot of walks.

 

[Mara]

like you TG i have a very low threshold...and i agree a well-rested family can handle a lot more... that is certainly right for us anyway. i am a much better person with some sleep under my belt and a much better mother. i think a lot of people deal better with sleep deprivation than i do for sure and still function...but knowing that about myself set some expectations for ME and what i can deal with.

i wouldn't call J an 'easy' baby...he is certainly go go go active and can be high maintenance when awake, never happy in one spot for more than 5 minutes. i just know that i don't want to go down one route when it comes to sleep so i tend to be a stickler about that one thing, or try to anyway. obviously sometimes the babies have other ideas, but Greg is also die hard about not being 'ruled' by the child.

steph LOL i had to laugh reading your post, here i am trying to get my kid to NAP and your kid wants to nap all day!!! it's so funny how the babies are all just so different!! for J because he gets bored easily i tend to move him from one thing to another every time he starts to fuss (or maybe in your case when he starts to fall asleep)... play mat for a while. swing for a while. bjorn for a while. holding him under the shoulders and bouncing him up and down for a while. putting him on my shoulder for a while. putting him in my lap and bouncing him while watching TV for a while.

speaking of kids who sleep, i have been watching (maybe this should be a confession) Kendra and i was secretly happy to see that she was not stick thin after 4-5 weeks of having the baby. lol. and secretly happy that Greg said i looked better than her HAHA. but anyway...her baby seemed to sleep all the time on the show and she always has him in the swing or whatever and he's sleeping with paci and eyes are closed etc. i was JEALOUS going hello why isn't my kid more like that?? and he hates the paci unless someone is holding it. BUT then i thought well my kid is super active, wants to be mobile, wants to STAND on us, his brain seems too big for his body. so i thought well they seem to have a super easy mellow baby who just sleeps and sits there but on the other hand i love that J is so brain-active already!! so while he might be a little more challenging i wouldn't trade him for the world.

J got up at noon and i played with him for a while then fed him and then played with him and then put him down 15 min ago for a nap. he let out a few weak cries and then passed out. hopefully for an hour so i can shower once the dog walker comes!

ETA... can someone refer me to where i can read about EASY method? i see people referencing it but i wasnt sure what it was and what it entailed?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:08:39 PM
Author: Mara
like you TG i have a very low threshold...and i agree a well-rested family can handle a lot more... that is certainly right for us anyway. i am a much better person with some sleep under my belt and a much better mother. i think a lot of people deal better with sleep deprivation than i do for sure and still function...but knowing that about myself set some expectations for ME and what i can deal with.

also not sure anyone would call J an ''easy'' baby...he is certainly go go go active and can be high maintenance when awake, never happy in one spot for more than 5 minutes. i just know that i don''t want to go down one route when it comes to sleep so i tend to be a stickler about that one thing, or try to anyway. obviously sometimes the babies have other ideas, but Greg is also die hard about not being ''ruled'' by the child.

steph LOL i had to laugh reading your post, here i am trying to get my kid to NAP and your kid wants to nap all day!!! it''s so funny how the babies are all just so different!! for J because he gets bored easily i tend to move him from one thing to another every time he starts to fuss (or maybe in your case when he starts to fall asleep)... play mat for a while. swing for a while. bjorn for a while. holding him under the shoulders and bouncing him up and down for a while. putting him on my shoulder for a while. putting him in my lap and bouncing him while watching TV for a while.

speaking of kids who sleep, i have been watching (maybe this should be a confession) Kendra and i was secretly happy to see that she was not stick thin after 4-5 weeks of having the baby. lol. and secretly happy that Greg said i looked better than her HAHA. but anyway...her baby seemed to sleep all the time on the show and she always has him in the swing or whatever and he''s sleeping with paci and eyes are closed etc. i was JEALOUS going hello why isn''t my kid more like that?? and he hates the paci unless someone is holding it. BUT then i thought well my kid is super active, wants to be mobile, wants to STAND on us, his brain seems too big for his body. so i thought well they seem to have a super easy mellow baby who just sleeps and sits there but on the other hand i love that J is so brain-active already!! so while he might be a little more challenging i wouldn''t trade him for the world.

J got up at noon and i played with him for a while then fed him and then played with him and then put him down 15 min ago for a nap. he let out a few weak cries and then passed out. hopefully for an hour so i can shower once the dog walker comes!

Mara, Greg and TGuy are one and the same. Before I was even pregnant, he and I would have discussions about general child rearing. His only main rule was, and I quote, "The kid will not rule the roost."

Our mentality was one and the same, and although TGuy didn''t quite know how to go about making that happen, he stood by and supported everything I did because he knew the ultimate goal was that WE would manage the child and not the other way around. Now that I have a 2 year old, I think PurrfectPear said it best on another thread. At THIS stage in the game, I''m 37. She''s two. I win.

Period.

 

[TravelingGal]

Mara, EASY is from Baby Whisperer. I haven''t read it but a lot of the moms while I was dealing with Amelia as an infant did, so I know it stands for a general cycle that consists of:

Eat
Activity (for baby)
Sleep
You time (or something like that)

That''s why you''ll see people say AESY or EAESY or whatever. I find that HSHHC also sort of loosely follows this, if you figure what makes sense for the routine. Our day wasn''t always EASY EASY EASY though, sometimes it was EASY AESY AESY, etc. You get the drift.

 

[cdt1101]

Anchor - So sorry to hear about Jacob! That must have been so scary for you. I hope the little guy is feeling better.

Mara - EASY is talked about in The Baby Whisper.


Lex is sick again...or whatever...just chronic chest congestion at this point. I''m starting to think DRs have NO idea what the h*ll they''re talking about

And I''m done w/ all the medication they have him on, honestly I think things got WORSE since he''s been on all of this crap. Just not sure what to do anymore

Hello everyone

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:04:02 PM
Author: vizsla
for the most part we *are* very consistent - which is why it is so extra frustrating when people say things should work if you are consistent and it doesn''t. if it was just a matter of giving it 2 or 3 weeks and the baby learns XYZ about sleeping then i would say fine... but i could give each theory a try for months and it wouldn''t be until c is ready to STTN that he would.

all day it''s eat awake nap - more often than not these days he wakes up from a nap and doesn''t want to eat for another hour or so. repeat.

at night it''s bath (every other night) pjs, diaper, white noise, book, bottle, swaddle, paci, cuddle, bed.

cry 30mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU *feed* pat soothe back down to sleep

repeat cycle

this is where i don''t see it as a problem of consistency - and more as a personality ''flaw'' ;P

thoughts?

How old is C?

Others disagree, but I really think that some babies need a "fourth trimester" or even longer for physical and emotional development before they are ready for STTN or sleep training. I have had friends who''s babies were "high needs" and cried for hours a day. In those situations you do your best and try to watch for the changes in your child. There will come a time when C''s personality will blossom and he will cry less, be more calm and focussed. And then perhaps *that* is the time when you can really try to change and mold him. In my mind that change starts to happen somewhere around 4-9 months, depending on the baby.

It sounds to me like you have a very good routine going for a very young baby. And I applaud all moms of higher needs/fussier/spirited/"personality flawed"

babies because it IS so much harder! But it will get better if you just persevere. A lot of it is just development and growth, which you cannot spur along.

My observations were really based on older babies, since I don''t personally believe in CIO with younger infants. But there you go.

But at the same time, it is worth taking a look at your own assumptions and theories of parenting. I have one friend who''s daughter is a great kid, really, but she will not nap for mom and dad (she does at daycare

) and she does not STTN at 18 months. And her mom is the first to admit that she cannot bear to hear her cry. Ever. And that is part of the "problem". But they make it work for them.

I think if Hunter had been like C we would have coslept and dealt with sleep training when he was developmentally ready.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:05:30 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 3/22/2010 4:57:24 PM
Author: dreamer_d

OK, no one is gonna like what I am going to say, but from observing my friends who have kids who still don''t STTN at 1.5 or 2 years or more... I think that inconsistency is the culprit. Some of the methods that get talked about here take a week two weeks or longer to work. And in that week, you have to be a total hard ass and stick to your guns, and sit there sweating while your baby cries or be up all nigth doing to pick up put down. And on and on. Of course temperament interacts. That is why baby A starts sleeping through the night on his own and baby B need to be trained. That is why baby C responds to the methods in one night and baby D takes 8 days. But I think that teaching your kid to sleep is HARD. It takes patience, and stamina, and willpower, and faith that what you are doing is right. And all sorts of things that are hard to muster.

There are a million diet books not because dieting doesn''t work, but because actually following the program is hard

Some diets are stupid, for sure, like some baby sleep books, but in the end it is possible to lose weight for anyone. And it is *possible* for any parent to have a baby who STTN. It all depends on their choices.

And lest I seem cold or superiour, I did not want to do what I knew was necessary either, and thus had a baby waking 4 times a night until he was 9 months old. That was the right time for me to bite the bullet and use CIO. Other people don''t want to use such methods, and that''s ok too. With baby number two I will probably also wait until 9 months, but time will tell.

Hee, dreamer...good thing you''re around...I can let you say the pointed stuff.

Consistency IS key, and based on my observations, many, many people don''t have the disposition to stick things out when it comes to their kids because, as you said, it''s really really hard.

But speaking of diet...er, I''m one of those inconsistent people!!!

I swear, if I was as consistent about some things for me vs for my child, I''d be supermodel skinny!

Fiery, Amelia was on a similar schedule at Sophia''s age. The nap time varied from Sophia''s, and she woke up at 7 vs 9, but the amount of naps and general period of wakefulness were about the same.

Me too, I am pathetic

 

[fieryred33143]

Mara-It''s the Baby Whisperer

Honestly, some of the info in the book is very repetitive and similar to that of other sleep books which I know you have read.

The main takeaways, IMO:

-She talks about the EASY method which is Eat, Activity, Sleep, Time for you (although I''m still upset that time for you doesn''t mean bubble bath eating chocolate but instead doing laundry. That should be a disclaimer in the book

).

There is a 2, 3, and 4 hour schedule. The 2 hour schedule is for younger babies. 3 hour is for babies around J''s age and the 4 hour is more for older babies that can go that long in between feeds during the day.

-She talks about "tanking" up or cluster feeding. So if you do the 3 hour schedule, you follow the EAS process all day until the last few hours before bed. Then it''s EAEAS. Sometimes it can be EAEAES. She encourages that when LO wakes at night, it''s eat then sleep, no activity in between.

-She also describes the pick up/put down method.

That''s pretty much it. If you have time (ha) you can pick it up and read on it. I found it too difficult to follow when Sophia was "eating on demand" because she has times associated to her schedules so we took on the philosophy of making sure she eats, then plays, then sleeps so that we could break the need to nurse before sleeping (which I didn''t want to do anymore).

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:16:34 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Mara, EASY is from Baby Whisperer. I haven''t read it but a lot of the moms while I was dealing with Amelia as an infant did, so I know it stands for a general cycle that consists of:

Eat
Activity (for baby)
Sleep
You time (or something like that)

That''s why you''ll see people say AESY or EAESY or whatever. I find that HSHHC also sort of loosely follows this, if you figure what makes sense for the routine. Our day wasn''t always EASY EASY EASY though, sometimes it was EASY AESY AESY, etc. You get the drift.

We used this routine and really liked it.

Honestly, the hardest part of having a kid who sleeps well is scheduling your life around their sleeping. We are home at bedtime and nap time usually, though we will let Hunter have his afternoon nap in the car or stroller when we are out because he seems to do well that way too.

 

[fieryred33143]

Viz-I don''t think it''s your routine because you said he goes down easily. How is he with the swaddle? Does it seem like he still really needs it?

CDT-Poor Lex

Hope he feels better soon.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:18:58 PM
Author: dreamer_d

How old is C?

Others disagree, but I really think that some babies need a ''fourth trimester'' or even longer for physical and emotional development before they are ready for STTN or sleep training. I have had friends who''s babies were ''high needs'' and cried for hours a day. In those situations you do your best and try to watch for the changes in your child. There will come a time when C''s personality will blossom and he will cry less, be more calm and focussed. And then perhaps *that* is the time when you can really try to change and mold him. In my mind that change starts to happen somewhere around 4-9 months, depending on the baby.

It sounds to me like you have a very good routine going for a very young baby. And I applaud all moms of higher needs/fussier/spirited/''personality flawed''

babies because it IS so much harder! But it will get better if you just persevere. A lot of it is just development and growth, which you cannot spur along.

My observations were really based on older babies, since I don''t personally believe in CIO with younger infants. But there you go.

But at the same time, it is worth taking a look at your own assumptions and theories of parenting. I have one friend who''s daughter is a great kid, really, but she will not nap for mom and dad (she does at daycare

) and she does not STTN at 18 months. And her mom is the first to admit that she cannot bear to hear her cry. Ever. And that is part of the ''problem''. But they make it work for them.

I think if Hunter had been like C we would have coslept and dealt with sleep training when he was developmentally ready.

I actually do believe in this. I just think that some babies need less time to "bake" in that 4th tri! Amelia slept through her first 12 hour night at 3 months, 3 days. That IS early. It was also luck. Yes, we set the foundation up and think we did a good job, but how she managed to actually do it is beyond me. That being said, once I knew she could actually do it, I took away that 2 am feed. She did wake up here and there after that, I think, but I waited it out to see if she''d pass out again. She did.

I think a good time to CIO is somewhere between 4-9 months. My friend used it at 1 year with her son and that was tough, but only took 2 days. But when I say "tough", I mean the amount of SCARY noises and ruckus they can create is far worse than a baby at 4 months. Man, if you think a crying baby at 4 months is bad, a seriously pissed off screaming 1 year old is majorly geared to break a mom down!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:21:57 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/22/2010 5:16:34 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Mara, EASY is from Baby Whisperer. I haven''t read it but a lot of the moms while I was dealing with Amelia as an infant did, so I know it stands for a general cycle that consists of:

Eat
Activity (for baby)
Sleep
You time (or something like that)

That''s why you''ll see people say AESY or EAESY or whatever. I find that HSHHC also sort of loosely follows this, if you figure what makes sense for the routine. Our day wasn''t always EASY EASY EASY though, sometimes it was EASY AESY AESY, etc. You get the drift.

We used this routine and really liked it.

Honestly, the hardest part of having a kid who sleeps well is scheduling your life around their sleeping. We are home at bedtime and nap time usually, though we will let Hunter have his afternoon nap in the car or stroller when we are out because he seems to do well that way too.

Yes, it sucks and it a sacrifice, which is why I understand why a lot of moms don''t want to do it. Amelia didn''t nap well in the carseat after we established the schedule, so it was really a bummer.

But now, at 2 yrs, she goes down every day at 1pm for a nap and up at 3:30 pm. So it''s a huge stretch in the morning and a nice stretch in the afternoon to do things. Currently I am waiting for her to wakeup in about 30 mins to an hour and then we''ll head off to her first swim session. The payoff comes later for sure...life is so much easier now!

Oh, and the best part is that kids who are on a decent schedule all seem to nap as toddlers somewhere in the early afternoon, which means that all of your friends and you are on the same schedule, so everyone is understanding about figuring get together times.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:27:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I think a good time to CIO is somewhere between 4-9 months. My friend used it at 1 year with her son and that was tough, but only took 2 days. But when I say ''tough'', I mean the amount of SCARY noises and ruckus they can create is far worse than a baby at 4 months. Man, if you think a crying baby at 4 months is bad, a seriously pissed off screaming 1 year old is majorly geared to break a mom down!!

Yup and that is why we don''t use a baby monitor anymore.

Even with your kid as trained as can be, there are regressions! After Hunter was sick for 2 weeks we had to use CIO at nap time -- when he was sick we were driving him around in the car for naps for 4 days

He got used to it and then we had to get him used to crib time agin. 46 minutes later he was asleep, but gad it is hard!

 

[steph72276]

Viz, it is so very hard when they are so tiny...it could be so many different factors as to why he's waking up so much. It could be that he misses you when he wakes up in the dark and wants to be soothed. It could be a light or a sound waking him. It could be that he doesn't like the swaddle or is getting hot. It could be that he's actually hungry some of those times or his belly might be hurting (reflux?) and he just thinks he's hungry. You sound like you have a great schedule/routine so maybe just try to tweak one of those things at a time...don't do the swaddle (or don't do it so tight), put his crib on an incline, either increase or decrease lighting/sound etc. until you have the right "formula" figured out. Also, I know you're opposed to CIO (I could never go more than 5 minutes), but sometimes E will cry, I will get up and start warming a bottle and by the time I'm finished he will be back to sleep. Do you rush in right away, or do you at least give it a few minutes to make sure he's totally awake? I know it is very stressful, but he will figure out how wonderful sleep is soon I promise. Until then hugs b/c I know how awful sleep deprivation is.
ETA: Are you putting the paci back in every time? Could it be he's getting mad that it's falling out?

Thanks for the advice on the activities. I am trying to do the EASY method also, but EVERYTHING puts this baby to sleep during the day...the playmat, boppy, swing, singing. I feel bad because I am constantly getting in his face and waking him so that hopefully he will sleep better at night. When he does get up at night, he is super alert and it takes a while to get him back to sleep (usually have to rock him). Anyway, thanks again for the tips!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:30:21 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/22/2010 5:27:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal

I think a good time to CIO is somewhere between 4-9 months. My friend used it at 1 year with her son and that was tough, but only took 2 days. But when I say ''tough'', I mean the amount of SCARY noises and ruckus they can create is far worse than a baby at 4 months. Man, if you think a crying baby at 4 months is bad, a seriously pissed off screaming 1 year old is majorly geared to break a mom down!!

Yup and that is why we don''t use a baby monitor anymore.

Even with your kid as trained as can be, there are regressions! After Hunter was sick for 2 weeks we had to use CIO at nap time -- when he was sick we were driving him around in the car for naps for 4 days

He got used to it and then we had to get him used to crib time agin. 46 minutes later he was asleep, but gad it is hard!

Yes, Amelia had a couple of periods of flat out SOBBING when we put her down. Such suffering and drama! So I''ve definitely had to use CIO, but when she was much older.

And we got the video monitor a short while back...totally fun to use for a toddler, but it would have driven me batty to use it for an infant. And currently when we use it, we keep the sound OFF.

 

[Mara]

thanks ladies, got it now re EASY... that is like HSHHC in a way as you said TG... basically eat, activity, sleep. and lol re: the Y being for eating chocolate or bubble bath, I AGREE there. laundry can wait!!

J mostly does EAS I guess, though sometimes if he wakes up from a nap and I know he''s not hungry we''ll do AEAS instead.

viz...i know you have said previously that C thrives when he is being held... do you think that has anything to do with his waking? maybe he''s really seeking the comfort from you guys because he gets it during the day from being held? how much do they comfort and hold him at daycare? since he''s waking SO often, a fair amt of that night is spent being cuddled and soothed by you guys back to sleep...i wonder if that''s what he is seeking.

TG... lol re the 37 vs 2 that is totally what Greg would say too. and he also supports basically whatever i say goes for the baby because he knows that i have done the research, the reading, whatever. but he would be the first to say ''hey i think this isn''t working'' if he felt it wasn''t.

re: the screaming 1 year old... sometimes when i hear the moms of older, more mobile kids say that they see them motoring around the crib crying or standing up screaming i am like JEEZ ok the 7 week old who can just move himself sideways flat in the crib is not quite so bad i guess. YET. HAHAA.

re: weaning and boob engorgement, is the general idea that your boobs should just adapt to whatever schedule you have going? so if i feed J at 11am on boob and then i pump at 10pm and then again at 8am the idea is that my boobs should (within a period of time) adapt to that schedule meaning that i am not going to be too full or engorged at 4pm? i am trying to figure out how i want to schedule things for when i go to work and it would be great to only have to pump once at work if at all. or is that just a recipe for milk drying up?

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:37:51 PM
Author: FL Steph
Viz, it is so very hard when they are so tiny...it could be so many different factors as to why he''s waking up so much. It could be that he misses you when he wakes up in the dark and wants to be soothed. It could be a light or a sound waking him. It could be that he doesn''t like the swaddle or is getting hot. It could be that he''s actually hungry some of those times or his belly might be hurting (reflux?) and he just thinks he''s hungry. You sound like you have a great schedule/routine so maybe just try to tweak one of those things at a time...don''t do the swaddle (or don''t do it so tight), put his crib on an incline, either increase or decrease lighting/sound etc. until you have the right ''formula'' figured out. Also, I know you''re opposed to CIO (I could never go more than 5 minutes), but sometimes E will cry, I will get up and start warming a bottle and by the time I''m finished he will be back to sleep. Do you rush in right away, or do you at least give it a few minutes to make sure he''s totally awake? I know it is very stressful, but he will figure out how wonderful sleep is soon I promise. Until then hugs b/c I know how awful sleep deprivation is.

Thanks for the advice on the activities. I am trying to do the EASY method also, but EVERYTHING puts this baby to sleep during the day...the playmat, boppy, swing, singing. I feel bad because I am constantly getting in his face and waking him so that hopefully he will sleep better at night. When he does get up at night, he is super alert and it takes a while to get him back to sleep (usually have to rock him). Anyway, thanks again for the tips!

Steph, have you tried a rattle? Not just shaking it on front of him, but putting him on a lap on a pillow and taking the rattle (or a noisy toy, with a lot of black and white for the early weeks) and moving it left to right and back again? Then moving it at an arc above his head? I had to do these exercises for Amelia''s torticolis and it also helped keep her awake. I also did a lot of playing with her on the pillow on my lap...touching her nose, moving her arms and legs, etc. And then of course her stretching exercises got her awake and alert AND screaming mad, but I don''t recommend those.

 

[Mara]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:38:01 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Yes, Amelia had a couple of periods of flat out SOBBING when we put her down. Such suffering and drama! So I''ve definitely had to use CIO, but when she was much older.

And we got the video monitor a short while back...totally fun to use for a toddler, but it would have driven me batty to use it for an infant. And currently when we use it, we keep the sound OFF.

re: the sobbing...sometimes J gives the most pathetic little fake cries or just where he''s opening his mouth and letting a weak cry emit... is it wrong to start laughing hysterically everytime he does it?? cuz thats what we do. OH THE DRAMA... i am sure when he''s older he''ll have some sobbing hysterical fits which will also make us laugh. poor kid.

 

[steph72276]

TGal, we play with a rattle but I haven''t tried moving it around like that....I will give it a try. Oh and I do those stretches with him on his changing table and he totally hates them too!

Mara, I so laugh at E when he does those fake cries, then he starts smiling at me b/c I''m cracking up.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:53:08 PM
Author: FL Steph
TGal, we play with a rattle but I haven''t tried moving it around like that....I will give it a try. Oh and I do those stretches with him on his changing table and he totally hates them too!

Mara, I so laugh at E when he does those fake cries, then he starts smiling at me b/c I''m cracking up.

Amelia was 4-5 weeks when we started that. She didn''t follow the arc for a few weeks more, so don''t expect it early on. Hope you find things that help!

 

[taovandel]

Viz: I think our babies were born the same day, right? For the last three weeks, Evan would not sleep like he normally did. Now it might be a coincidence but we took the swaddle off of him and went back to a sleep sack and he only gets up once at night now (normally between 3:30-4:30) like he did before his 4 month wake-up and he won''t wake up in the morning until between 7-8 a.m. We had to actually wake him up twice in the past week to get him ready for daycare.

We also started him on a small amount of Oatmeal at night...which he seems to love. I don''t really think it has anything to do with his sleeping though.

Mandy: We tried Rice with Evan...he hated it...was a fussy pants. We stopped for 2 weeks and then started oatmeal and he''s been great with it.

I make little bee noises when I feed him (he''s not a fan of the airplane..haha)...and the other day I was holding some q-tips in my hand and I made the noises and he opened his mouth like I was going to feed him..hehe...so funny!

 

[ChinaCat]

It is definitely easier to hear a newborn crying than when they get older. Already at 7 months, it''s a much louder, insistent cry. I would say that 6 months seems to be ideal for "most" to CIO, but I think I could have handled it better at 4 months for some reason.

O totally fake coughs to get our attention. It''s hysterical.

Mara- Pumping/engorgement. Yes, the general idea is your body adapts. So if you pump/nurse, that is when your body will produce milk. I personally couldn''t only pump once a day b/c I was EBF and that wouldn''t be enough to feed O. I didn''t do a freezer stash though (milk changes and adjusts to what they need, so a freezer stash is great, but daily pumped BM is better). It takes a few days for your body to adjust, but eventually it will. So my body "should" produce milk only first thing in the morning and then again at 7 pm at night. Which is why I''m confused as to why I am engorged at 4 pm, when I got past that a few weeks ago.

 

[Sha]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:04:02 PM
Author: vizsla
for the most part we *are* very consistent - which is why it is so extra frustrating when people say things should work if you are consistent and it doesn't. if it was just a matter of giving it 2 or 3 weeks and the baby learns XYZ about sleeping then i would say fine... but i could give each theory a try for months and it wouldn't be until c is ready to STTN that he would.

all day it's eat awake nap - more often than not these days he wakes up from a nap and doesn't want to eat for another hour or so. repeat.

at night it's bath (every other night) pjs, diaper, white noise, book, bottle, swaddle, paci, cuddle, bed.

cry 30mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU *feed* pat soothe back down to sleep

repeat cycle

this is where i don't see it as a problem of consistency - and more as a personality 'flaw' ;P

thoughts?

vizla, as you know I'm struggling with sleep deprivation myself, but I think your pattern of going to C whenever he wakes is reinforcing his waking, rather than diminishing it. Sounds to me like he's come to depend on your soothing/patting in order to get back to sleep, instead of learning to self-settle. In this respect, I think your consistency may be making the habit more difficult to break, since he knows you'll come running everytime he cries. He's never had to learn to self-settle because he's never had to.

You mentioned in a previous post that C lets you know when he needs something because he cries long and loud. I wonder about that.... I know Dalila cries her loudest when she's making a final attempt to get what she wants. She'll start off slowly, with a squawk, then ratchet it up until she's screeching the house down. I swear the neighbours think we're torturing her sometimes!

There've been many times when I almost give in, telling myself, "I can't take this anymore!! Anything to stop the screeching!""

If I hold out long enough, though, then eventually she gets the message and begins to quiet herself down.

I know people say babies can't manipulate at this age, but I'm not so sure... I think they're conditioned into knowing that crying gets them what they want, and when all else fails, then the LOUD crying does the trick!! Sometimes I catch Dalila sneaking little looks at us out of the corner of her eye, in between wails, elmost as if she's checking to see if the crying is working. When we leave the room, she quiets down within the minute! Because there's no one to 'exact' the crying on.

I think that if you 'hold out' with C a bit more (as hard as it is to do) and be consistent with it, then it'll help train him to be able to get back to sleep on his own, over the long run.

 

[Sabine]

Viz, I really feel for you, and I feel compelled to chime in because I went through that exact situation until 4 months, but at the same time don''t know what to say/ask.

Part of me wants to ask why you are so against CIO, because even though we did it and STILL felt like we were meeting Jackson''s needs because we still fed him overnight till 6.5 months, and we have had INCREDIBLE success. I mean, he goes to bed without a peep and sttn. He goes down for naps without a peep 99% of the time. And any time I see my friends struggling with their lo''s sleep issues (they are all his age), I feel so incredibly lucky for our situation. But at the same time, I also know how hard it was to listen to him cry, and I am 100% sure that we''ve had so much success because I was SO consistent with letting him CIO for as long as it took overnight and for naps. While overnight was easy, naps took a WHILE for him to stop crying altogether, and there were so many times I wanted to give in because I couldn''t take listening to him cry any more, so I really don''t want to suggest doing it if you think you will have a hard time with it.

But either way, it seems pretty obvious that C is waking at the end of each sleep cycle when he cycles into lighter sleep and for some reason is not able to sooth himself back to sleep. Part of the problem may be swaddling (does he take a paci? if not, he may really benefit from being able to suck on his hands). So I think it''s clear that you need to find a way to teach him to self-soothe, but I really don''t know how you do that without letting him CIO.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 3/22/2010 5:04:02 PM
Author: vizsla
for the most part we *are* very consistent - which is why it is so extra frustrating when people say things should work if you are consistent and it doesn''t. if it was just a matter of giving it 2 or 3 weeks and the baby learns XYZ about sleeping then i would say fine... but i could give each theory a try for months and it wouldn''t be until c is ready to STTN that he would.

all day it''s eat awake nap - more often than not these days he wakes up from a nap and doesn''t want to eat for another hour or so. repeat.

at night it''s bath (every other night) pjs, diaper, white noise, book, bottle, swaddle, paci, cuddle, bed.

cry 30mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU cuddle pat soothe back down to sleep

cry 45mins later
PU *feed* pat soothe back down to sleep

repeat cycle

this is where i don''t see it as a problem of consistency - and more as a personality ''flaw'' ;P

thoughts?

Viz, your schedule and mine look similar - although D doesn''t nap more than ''maybe'' once during the day.

The evening is exactly like yours - I''ve learnt to jump in at the first squeak, shove boob in mouth and she''s back asleep and I''m back in front of the TV in less than 10 minutes. If I wait, then she''s wide-awake and gets up to play...

Once we all go to bed, unless she''s ill or stressed by something, she''s a brilliant sleeper and not a morning person either thank goodness!

I absolutely will not do CIO, so I''m going with the only method that works for us which is making bedtime and sleeping a nice activity and realising that it is a finite period that this goes on for - and I am happier with this sleep deprivation than I am going to be on Saturday nights in 2027...


DH has gone off for a whole week on a course so I''m playing Single Mom...

I''m somewhat sulking with him at the moment... does anyone else get the feeling that their SO thinks that it''s ''your'' baby rather than ''our'' baby and so thinks like finding a babysitter are YOUR job, and looking after the baby is what they do as a special favour?

I''ve got to get this tooth fixed on Friday, I have a late afternoon appointment, DH''s course finishes at midday so he could easily be home in time, but won''t commit to looking after her and says that he''ll ''still be working''. I can''t take her with me and I can''t find anyone who will babysit on a late Friday afternoon. If I have to cancel I can''t get it done for a few weeks and it can''t wait that long, and if I end up cancelling last minute then I have to pay. D screamed the place down last week so I can''t take her too. Eugh!

 

[Mandarine]

Thanks guys for the info on rice cereal vs oatmeal!!!. I think I''m going to start with a little oatmeal when we''re ready, which is not for a few more weeks!.

So many interesting things about sleep training!. I think each parent really needs to find what they are comfortable with....and like someone mentioned I think consistency is a MAJOR component of success!. I also do agree with whomever said there is an element of luck and temperament!.

I have no problems with CIO...but I do think there is a right time to do it...and for me that time is after 4 months or so (for specific things) and 6 months or so for STNN. For me, I used a bit of CIO to stop rocking at 2 months old...but they cried for less than 10 minutes and in those 10 minutes I went back in to soothe like 3 times...so I don''t really consider that CIO, and we were done with that like in 3 days!.

I absolutely believe in the forth trimester...and before those first 12 weeks I was opposed to do any serious CIO. I think newborns have a need to cuddle/touch just like they need to eat or sleep. It''s a NEED, IMO.

Now for sleep training. Well, I can''t give much advice as mine are not STTN!...but I think mine are not terrible either (if we discount the last 3 weeks of shots/colds!). They go down at 7pm and each baby wakes up once to eat and go right back down to sleep until 6ish.

Once they get over their colds and start eating more during the day, I''m going to go back to what I was doing before they got all screwed up!. I''m going to keep trying to gradually cut that 4oz bottle. Once we hit the 6-month mark...I''m going to try CIO during the night (which I have never done as they only wake up once to eat and I basically run in there before they wake up the other baby!).

I have no idea what would happen if I let them cry for a few minutes before going in....because I''ve never really tried!...but I will find out in a few weeks. Unless they drop that bottle on their own once I can reduce it to the minimum...We shall see.

So speaking of CIO...we did a bit of that tonight to try to stop the rocking habit AGAIN since they were getting a bit spoiled while sick. Anywho, last night they cried for 5 minutes. Not today!...oh no!!!...it took 30 minutes for Lucas to go down...and 45 minutes for Alex to go down. We kept going in, PU/PD, etc. Well, I went and rocked Alex, came back down...be got quiet and then he started screaming again. Then he started making really weird sounds. I told DH I thought he was choking!. DH said he was just crying and to wait a few more minutes. I was already running up the stairs. The poor guy had thrown up all over the place

he had throw up in his ears!!!!!.

I felt so bad, so guilty!! I cried a little too!. He didn''t throw up because of the crying..he threw up because of his cough/phlegm (they''ve been throwing up a lot this last week). I changed him, cleaned him...and then rocked my baby to sleep. Poor guy

It''s just hard to know that you''re doing the right things....and then something like this happens and guilt takes over. I know he won''t have permanent damage from crying or throwing up tonight...but it breaks my heart. He needs his mommy and he''s only going to be so little for so long.

Then on the other hand I do believe that healthy sleep habits are SO important....and I do agree that there is an ideal time to do it (the 4-9 month range makes sense to me). My sister had to rock my nephew well after a year!. She hated it, but she waited way too long to break that habit!. So it''s really a fine line so I know why some of us agree with CIO in theory, but maybe have a hard time executing it...or sticking to it!.

I''m rambling now!!! Not sure if I made much sense, but it''s time for me to go to bed and I''m too tired to re-read what I wrote...lol. Sorry if you read this far and none of this made any sense! haha

Good night gals!

 

[taovandel]

Mandy: you learned to listen to your mommy instinct...remember that for next time and don''t feel guilty.


Speaking of crazy throwing up.

The other day, I fed Evan and then put him down on his playmat so I could grab something to eat.

He was happily playing on the floor---after I finished eating I walked over to him and he looked exactly like the phantom of the opera! One half of his face was covered in white spit up!! Seriously...it was over his eye, his ear, all over his face. I''m not exagerating....he was exactly like the phantom of the opera.

I was so grossed out---but for a split second, I actually considered getting the camera out to take a picture of how crazy he looked!

 

[cdt1101]

Mandy - I hear you on guilt...I can''t tell you how many times I get frustrasted at Lex and I''ll get mad at him (raise my voice) and he''ll just look at me and burst into tears. I asked myself WHY I get frustrated w/ a baby??? I don''t know. I think I''m just frustrated w/ the situation (constant sickness) and running to DR after DR and not really getting anywhere. Sometimes I feel like a horrible mother though

It doesn''t help that I''m doing most of this alone as DH is super busy at work right now so isn''t much help.

I really don''t know what to do anymore for my little guy, he was up every hour last night crying because he''s so congested again. He also has a slight fever now (100). He hasn''t been 100% healthy since before Christmas. My DH and I are so worried all the time because Lex''s breathing is so so bad. I cried last night rocking my baby because his breathing scares me. I just want him to be healthy, but as of yet haven''t found a DR that has helped us at all. We went to our pedi yesterday and he basically told me the Pulmonologist was a nut for putting a baby on all these steroids. So he told us to stop (which has been my gut feeling all along, but at this point we just want Lex to get BETTER so I was willing to give it a try). He''s gotton so much worse since being on these meds though and when I questioned the Pulmonolist he said Lex must have gotten sick again, it wasn''t the medication....really?? Within 24 hours of leaving his office, my son went from a slight wheeze to shortness of breath and whistling at every breath??? It''s ridiculous.

I guess I''m just venting....but I''m just so sad over this situation and feel helpless that I can''t "fix" my son. And I''m scared that something will happen to Lex because he struggles to breath sometimes.

This is without a doubt the worst part of being a mom...the worry and fear...it''s all consuming. Before having Lex I considered myself an agnostic, but lately I find myself praying to God to just keep Lex safe. I don''t know....I''m just at a loss right now. I really have no idea what to do.

Sorry for being debbie downer ladies

 

[Mandarine]

After the whole throwing up ordeal, Alex ends up STTN last night...lol (even after throwing up his entire bottle!!!)
Goes to show you babies are unpredictable!

PSA: Gymboree has a spring sale going on! I just got the boys two cute long sleeve onesies and 2 pants for $22 including shipping!