PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 12:44:57 AM
Author: TanDogMom


Tgal,
Thanks for your thoughtful post. Lots to think about. I am glad that your schedule works so well for you and A!


So the book actually does say that for most kids his age, 2 naps is what they need. A very small % of kids take 1 and another small % take 3, but most take (and need) 2. THe author said the third nap is short and time flexible.

Naps have been very hard with this little guy since he was newborn. I never got that 2 week grace period of sleepy baby. Mine was up, alert, raring to go almost around the clock for the first couple weeks. I am actually thrilled that he takes at least one good nap now. For several MONTHS he just catnapped unless he was being held. He''d sleep maybe 20 min tops in his crib. So the fact that he''ll do 30 min to an hour is, well, great!

Re: the 1 hour variation in bed time and wake up time. You asked how I would feel going to bed 11:30 vs 10:30. Honestly, I''m not on a consistent sleep schedule myself. I find that I can go to bed almost any time and get up any time as long as I get 8 hours of sleep most nights. I''ve always been this way (that is, pre-baby when I actually got 8 hours!) So I guess part of why I have trouble buying the whole consistent routine down to the minute is that I am not like that myself. I don''t need it and in fact I prefer to have a loose routine for myself in terms of eating and sleeping. I have a fairly predictable pattern but can vary it a little according to the day and how I''m feeling. So I''m not sure whether I buy this highly scheduled child thing. But I did read and like the HSHHC book and I am glad to hear what is working for other parents.

I know around this time (8 months), Amelia had three, but by nine she was on schedule with 2 naps, which I think the book says the variable 3rd nap disappears. I know that some babies definitely only has 2 naps at 8 months (I think I just tried to milk the naps for all they were worth). She also got on a 1 nap schedule faster than most kids, I think.

Re: the highlighted part, that was my point, I probably wasn''t clear. If you wake up at 6 am, a 10:30 bedtime will leave you feeling more refreshed than an 11:30. You say you need 8 hours of sleep to feel rested. So kids need their sleep too, and 1.5 hours would make a difference ASSUMING the wake up time is the same.

If YOU are not on a consistent schedule, you can''t expect your kid to be, so I understand why you don''t buy it. If you get 8 hours of sleep a night but the wake up time is variable since the bedtime is variable, I would think your child''s day is not consistent.

What YOU need is not the same as what your CHILD needs, IMHO. Children can survive in all sorts of situations and do fine. But I do think that many children do really well on schedules. What you''ll find is that many parents don''t want to do it themselves so the child never had a real chance to get on one.

 

[neatfreak]

TDM I think the most important thing is that A is getting enough sleep. If both of you are happy with your routine and it works-then can I ask why you are even reading HSHHC? There's no need if what you have is working for you.

Our schedule is almost exactly what HSHHC and TGal recommend. But it isn't because I forced it to be. Naturally that is just what works for us and keeps my boys the happiest.

I do have an anecdote for you though... I now have 6 friends who all have twins from 8mos-13 mos. So we have 14 kids in all including mine. For those of us who are on a schedule like TGal and I have suggested our kids STTN. And I mean regularly sleep 12 hours at night almost every night. They also throw less temper tantrums during the day IMO in large part because they get regular naps during the day and we respect their naptimes.

The other moms in our twin group who have more varied schedules and are less strict about naps also have a lot more trouble with wake ups at night. Their kids still regularly get up at night and they are the ones to fly off the wall much more often during the day. Obviously this is anecdotal but 14 kids is not too paltry in terms of sample size! And I would say that we are all pretty similar in other ways-so it's not the worst "study" I've ever seen.

Since A is still getting up twice a night, for me *personally* that would be enough to think that something isn't working. By 8 months he should be able to go without feeding at night-so it at least is food for thought. But like I said initially if you are ok with his schedule and he's happy and getting enough sleep that is all that really matters.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 12:52:12 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
TDM I think that TGal gives a lot of good advice. I am not as regimented as I think she is about scheduling, but in general we are pretty good at having a fairly typical pattern to our day. Because there is a pattern, Hunter's biological clock is pretty consistent. He wants to go to sleep at 7pm each night, he wants to eat at 7am, 12pm, and 5:30 or so. He wants to wake at 6am

I don't really have a time in my own mind for naps, and maybe I should, but I follow his cues and he is really consistent. He goes about 2.5 to 3 hours from waking, so he naps around 9am. This nap ranges from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours. Then he wants to nap again about 2.5 to 3 hours later, so obviously that depends on how long his morning nap was! Again, that nap ranges from 45 minutes to 1.5 or even 2 hours if it has been a busy day! If he wakes from his afternoon nap before 2pm then he will take another cat nap at about 4:30. I *always* have him at home for his morning nap, and I try to be back in the afternoon or else I drive around or sit in the car until he wakes if he falls asleep.

In your shoes I might focus on getting the bedtime and wake up times more consistent as TGal suggests. This may lead to a bumpy few days or a week, depending on A's personality, but it is really good for his biorhythms to become really... um... rhythmical

. I bet his naps are all over the place because his wake ups and bedtime are so variable. I know that Hunters naps move around a lot if for some reason his wake up was messed up!

Dreamer, from what I can see, you've followed the HSHHC book (in terms of the science) without ever even reading the book. I've followed Hunter and I think you've been good at schedule and routine.

The reason it's easy to manipulate schedules once routine is set is because of that biological clock. I wasn't watching for exact TIMES per se (although obviously when I am at home things happen at around the same time), but I scheduled everything within time slots that made sense based on a baby's needs. Wake up, eat, down in x amount of hours. Nap takes x amount of hours. Next feed happens within X amount from the last time. In this sense, the Baby Whisperer seems to give similar advice. So Amelia knows that when she wakes up, within a certain amount of time, it's breakfast, then play, then lunch because she'll be hungry again, then nap because she'll be sleepy again.

There are reasons why kids normally wake up early given a reasonable bedtime...their needs end up falling in with what is natural during the day. This isn't as evident in the beginning when they are eating more often, but now that I have an almost 20 month old, it makes perfect sense as her schedule starts to spread out into what HSHHC mentions as natural. Now she has breakfast, lunch and dinner at more "normal" hours. Children also need sunshine and light...if they wake up early and go to bed early, you maximize time spent in light, which is at a premium during the winter months. My friend's kid for a long time was waking up at 10ish and going to bed at midnight. Yes, he was still getting 10 hours sleep, but he was only getting 6-7 hours in sunlight during winter!

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/24/2009 1:00:08 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/24/2009 12:44:57 AM

Author: TanDogMom



Tgal,

Thanks for your thoughtful post. Lots to think about. I am glad that your schedule works so well for you and A!



So the book actually does say that for most kids his age, 2 naps is what they need. A very small % of kids take 1 and another small % take 3, but most take (and need) 2. THe author said the third nap is short and time flexible.


Naps have been very hard with this little guy since he was newborn. I never got that 2 week grace period of sleepy baby. Mine was up, alert, raring to go almost around the clock for the first couple weeks. I am actually thrilled that he takes at least one good nap now. For several MONTHS he just catnapped unless he was being held. He''d sleep maybe 20 min tops in his crib. So the fact that he''ll do 30 min to an hour is, well, great!


Re: the 1 hour variation in bed time and wake up time. You asked how I would feel going to bed 11:30 vs 10:30. Honestly, I''m not on a consistent sleep schedule myself. I find that I can go to bed almost any time and get up any time as long as I get 8 hours of sleep most nights. I''ve always been this way (that is, pre-baby when I actually got 8 hours!) So I guess part of why I have trouble buying the whole consistent routine down to the minute is that I am not like that myself. I don''t need it and in fact I prefer to have a loose routine for myself in terms of eating and sleeping. I have a fairly predictable pattern but can vary it a little according to the day and how I''m feeling. So I''m not sure whether I buy this highly scheduled child thing. But I did read and like the HSHHC book and I am glad to hear what is working for other parents.

I know around this time (8 months), Amelia had three, but by nine she was on schedule with 2 naps, which I think the book says the variable 3rd nap disappears. I know that some babies definitely only has 2 naps at 8 months (I think I just tried to milk the naps for all they were worth). She also got on a 1 nap schedule faster than most kids, I think.


Re: the highlighted part, that was my point, I probably wasn''t clear. If you wake up at 6 am, a 10:30 bedtime will leave you feeling more refreshed than an 11:30. You say you need 8 hours of sleep to feel rested. So kids need their sleep too, and 1.5 hours would make a difference ASSUMING the wake up time is the same.


If YOU are not on a consistent schedule, you can''t expect your kid to be, so I understand why you don''t buy it. If you get 8 hours of sleep a night but the wake up time is variable since the bedtime is variable, I would think your child''s day is not consistent.


What YOU need is not the same as what your CHILD needs, IMHO. Children can survive in all sorts of situations and do fine. But I do think that many children do really well on schedules. What you''ll find is that many parents don''t want to do it themselves so the child never had a real chance to get on one.

I think if we actually sat down and talked about this we''d find that we are on the same page more than would appear from this conversation. I keep typing fast and editing my posts around doing thanksgiving food prep. I just baked cookies to send to my friend in Afghanistan but the d(*& dog countersurfed and ate a bunch of them while I was feeding the baby. UGH.

Anyway, I totally agree that what my child needs and what I need aren''t the same, but I was just trying to respond to your earlier example about my bedtime. Anyway, the good thing about this non-schedule is that I always put A to bed when he seems tired but by 8:30 at the absolute latest (usually earlier) and then he wakes up for the day when he is ready. Rarely if ever do I wake him up in the morning. So I think he is sleeping as much as he needs to at night. I would need to wake him up in the morning - coupled with an earlier bedtime - to get on the HSHHC routine.

We have a trip coming up in a few weeks. That is bound to mess up his routine anyway. I think we''ll get on the HSHHC schedule when we return. Why not. Then I can compare with how things are going now.

I''m also curious to hear if any other moms are on a more flexible routine like mine and how it is working for them?

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/24/2009 1:00:58 AM
Author: neatfreak
TDM I think the most important thing is that A is getting enough sleep. If both of you are happy with your routine and it works-then can I ask why you are even reading HSHHC? There's no need if what you have is working for you.


Our schedule is almost exactly what HSHHC and TGal recommend. But it isn't because I forced it to be. Naturally that is just what works for us and keeps my boys the happiest.


I do have an anecdote for you though... I now have 6 friends who all have twins from 8mos-13 mos. So we have 14 kids in all including mine. For those of us who are on a schedule like TGal and I have suggested our kids STTN. And I mean regularly sleep 12 hours at night almost every night. They also throw less temper tantrums during the day IMO in large part because they get regular naps during the day and we respect their naptimes.


The other moms in our twin group who have more varied schedules and are less strict about naps also have a lot more trouble with wake ups at night. Their kids still regularly get up at night and they are the ones to fly off the wall much more often during the day. Obviously this is anecdotal but 14 kids is not too paltry in terms of sample size! And I would say that we are all pretty similar in other ways-so it's not the worst 'study' I've ever seen.

Since A is still getting up twice a night, for me *personally* that would be enough to think that something isn't working. By 8 months he should be able to go without feeding at night-so it at least is food for thought. But like I said initially if you are ok with his schedule and he's happy and getting enough sleep that is all that really matters.

hi NF! You asked why I am reading HSHHC. I read it while I was pregnant and have been referring to the relevant parts as he grows up. I tried to follow it to the letter when he was a newborn although it didn't really work for us. Anyway, I think it is important to be informed and his book seems to be the most scientific when it comes to sleep. I just re-read the section about A's age because I realized I had forgotten the details! So now I'm comparing our schedule to the book's recommended schedule and evaluating whether to change ours. As with most things in parenting, I think it's important to learn what the experts recommend, then think about whether something makes sense for us.

It would be lovely if he slept 12 hours. I guess that would be the main thing I could hope to gain from the HSHHC schedule!

I like your "study" anecdote! Makes perfectly good sense. So far he seems to have a great temperment, but we're not to the tantrum age yet. Whatever we can do to prevent meltdowns, though, is great.

Let me ask you about the directionality of that cause and effect though. It sounds like you hypothesize that the lack of schedule is causing night wakeups and missed naps, which then causes a sleep deficit which causes more temper tantrums. I agree that this is the most likely explanation. But is it possible that the same parenting style that allows for missed sleep is also a more lax parenting style towards discipline, thus more tantrums? In that case, parenting style is "causing" (allowing) more tantrums AND causing a lack of schedule, rather than lack of schedule causing the tantrums. ALternately, could the child have a strong willed temperment, such that he is both more prone to meltdowns and also less willing to sleep when given the opportunity? This might lead a frazzled parent to give up on having a strict schedule. So, the child's temperment would be causing the lack of schedule and also the meltdowns. (This whole paragraph would be much easier to draw.) A fun, but not-gonna-happen experiment would be to get those moms to schedule one twin and not the other!

I'm just saying in a really nerdy way that I think you are probably right about the cause and effect, but I don't think it's the only possible explanation.

I hate that I have misspelled temperment like 4 times in this post but I can't seem to fix it! Off to bed!

 

[Pandora II]

TDM - Your schedule sounds VERY similar to mine, and IIRC we both have kids who were super-alert and raring to go from day dot and who could stay awake 14+ hours at a stretch if we didn''t help them to nap?

I would find it impossible to run my day on a set schedule but I do try to do things in the same order - in the morning we get up, have a bath together, play for an hour and then eat and take a nap at around 10.30am. The nap happens whether she''s at home in bed, in the pram or in the car and will be anything between 30 minutes to 2 hours. She''ll have another nap around 3-4pm, again it doesn''t seem to matter where we are or what we are doing - she just drifts off, although if we are at home she''ll often feed to sleep. It has been known for her to have 3 naps, in which case there will be one around 6pm, but then she won''t go to bed till 9.30ish which isn''t great for me, it all really depends on how long she sleeps for - two good naps of 1.5-2 hours each are preferable to 3 naps of 30 minutes as far as my life is concerned!

I ended up switching from EASY to AESY and it definitely improved things, although I do often do what Dr Sears suggests and feed her and then pass her to DH to do the actual putting down just to ring the changes and stop a dependence on my boob to get to sleep. She went to sleep twice with no problems while with my BIL and SIL on Saturday so it seems to be working okay.

She always wakes up smiling, seems happy and very rarely cries unless she''s teething so I think she''s probably doing okay! I do tend to respond very quickly when she does cry which may prove to be a bad thing in the future, who knows... so much depends on the individual child and their personality.

If you and A are happy with your set-up then I wouldn''t change it, especially considering what things were like a few months ago re. naps!

 

[natalina]

Hi everyone! I have been MIA for a while, sorry! Between the breast feeding nightmares, pumping constantly to give myself time to heal, no sleep and DH travelling all the time I haven''t been able to keep up here! Have a minute or two now and wanted to pop in and say I miss you guys! Haven''t caught up yet, so sorry for the me-centric post.

So after pumping for about 2 weeks I am finally healed and Ellie is back to breast feeding. I got a clogged/infected duct during all the pumping. I think the pump doesn''t empty me out as well as the baby, and compounded by the cracked nipples I ended up needing to get on antibiotics to clear it up. I think my supply was diminished by the pumping, though, because I don''t feel as full and Ellie gets really frustrated after nursing for about 10-15 minutes. She is nursing about every 2-2 1/2 hours now. She used to go 3 (still goes 3 at night). Also, I tried to pump a couple days ago just to see what I could get, and I only got 1 ounce when I used to get 4! I started taking fenugreek about a week ago and a prescription yesterday to help out.

When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Okay, off to catch up now. Hope everyone is well!!!

 

[vizsla]

hello!
this is my first post over on this thread and i have lots and lots of questions!
charlie was born on halloween... the labor was relatively easy, however - we''ve had some rough adjustments since coming home. it started at the hospital when c could not latch on. the lactation consultants thought he was tongue tied since he was basically chewing my nipple instead of sticking his tongue out past his bottom ridge and suggested we see an ENT to have his tongue clipped. while we waited to see the pedi for his first apt, i pumped 10-12x a day until i found another lactation consultant who advised us against getting his tongue clipped and instead suggested i use a nipple shield to train his tongue. at this time (about 1 week old) he started to get extremely fussy, crying uncontrollable for hours! had a really hard time using the nipple shield b/c he was so upset most of the day. finally, he was able to nurse every feeding without much trouble. about two weeks ago, my lactation consultant encouraged me to stop using the shield and we have been working on nursing without one ever since. about that same time DH and i noticed that C''s poos had gone from yellow to black. we made an apt with the pedi right away, where she confirmed what we had feared... he had lots of blood in his poo and had not gained any weight. she suggested that he most likely had MSPI or milk/soy protein intolerance. so i eliminated all dairy and soy from my diet. it''s been a little hard since i looove cheese and soy is in EVERYTHING. after about a week his poos started to clear up and his fussiness subsided. he became a sweet little boy.... however, i know C''s latch is still wonky b/c of his tongue and my poor little nipple looks like a chewed piece of meat. he literally spit up blood the other day from my nipple after i nursed him. i really do not want to stop breastfeeding ... #1 the super hypoallergenic formula is about $50 a can! and #2 i want to breastfeed. i guess all that rambling is just that.. rambling and venting... oh, and to top it off my poor little man has awful baby acne. good thing he''s so cute
i''ve yet to establish any type of ''routine'' with him. i feel like it''s a little early, but i''m also afraid i''m setting up some bad habits. he''s pretty much on a 3 hour schedule. wakes, feeds, quiet alert, then we rock him to sleep. he doesn''t like his bassinet (or sleeping flat on his back) - so i end up holding him most of the time. which i know is bad, but he actually sleeps when i hold him.
oh snap time to feed and subject myself to some fun nipple pain again

be back soon!

 

[natalina]

here''s our little Christmas elf- taken last week!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM
Author: natalina
Hi everyone! I have been MIA for a while, sorry! Between the breast feeding nightmares, pumping constantly to give myself time to heal, no sleep and DH travelling all the time I haven''t been able to keep up here! Have a minute or two now and wanted to pop in and say I miss you guys! Haven''t caught up yet, so sorry for the me-centric post.

So after pumping for about 2 weeks I am finally healed and Ellie is back to breast feeding. I got a clogged/infected duct during all the pumping. I think the pump doesn''t empty me out as well as the baby, and compounded by the cracked nipples I ended up needing to get on antibiotics to clear it up. I think my supply was diminished by the pumping, though, because I don''t feel as full and Ellie gets really frustrated after nursing for about 10-15 minutes. She is nursing about every 2-2 1/2 hours now. She used to go 3 (still goes 3 at night). Also, I tried to pump a couple days ago just to see what I could get, and I only got 1 ounce when I used to get 4! I started taking fenugreek about a week ago and a prescription yesterday to help out.

When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Okay, off to catch up now. Hope everyone is well!!!

Natalina, babies shouldn''t really have solids until 6 months, and definitely not before 17 weeks as it can damage their kidneys. Also their stomaches aren''t able to breakdown starches at that age, so it will just pass through them - it will make them feel fuller and so they will probably eat less which isn''t good for their calorie intake or your breastmilk production.

They should also have stopped the tongue-thrust reflex and be able to sit up before they are really ready.

There is no evidence that they will sleep any better or longer. I know people do introduce them earlier, but the WHO advice is EBF till 6 months.

I gave Daisy tiny tastes of things - literally a dab on the end of her tongue - but it''s only been since 26 weeks that I have let her have any kind of quantity and that has just been a couple of bites of a biscuit, a mouthful of banana, a bit of sausage etc not a ''whole meal''.

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:19:33 AM
Author: vizsla
hello!
this is my first post over on this thread and i have lots and lots of questions!
charlie was born on halloween... the labor was relatively easy, however - we''ve had some rough adjustments since coming home. it started at the hospital when c could not latch on. the lactation consultants thought he was tongue tied since he was basically chewing my nipple instead of sticking his tongue out past his bottom ridge and suggested we see an ENT to have his tongue clipped. while we waited to see the pedi for his first apt, i pumped 10-12x a day until i found another lactation consultant who advised us against getting his tongue clipped and instead suggested i use a nipple shield to train his tongue. at this time (about 1 week old) he started to get extremely fussy, crying uncontrollable for hours! had a really hard time using the nipple shield b/c he was so upset most of the day. finally, he was able to nurse every feeding without much trouble. about two weeks ago, my lactation consultant encouraged me to stop using the shield and we have been working on nursing without one ever since. about that same time DH and i noticed that C''s poos had gone from yellow to black. we made an apt with the pedi right away, where she confirmed what we had feared... he had lots of blood in his poo and had not gained any weight. she suggested that he most likely had MSPI or milk/soy protein intolerance. so i eliminated all dairy and soy from my diet. it''s been a little hard since i looove cheese and soy is in EVERYTHING. after about a week his poos started to clear up and his fussiness subsided. he became a sweet little boy.... however, i know C''s latch is still wonky b/c of his tongue and my poor little nipple looks like a chewed piece of meat. he literally spit up blood the other day from my nipple after i nursed him. i really do not want to stop breastfeeding ... #1 the super hypoallergenic formula is about $50 a can! and #2 i want to breastfeed. i guess all that rambling is just that.. rambling and venting... oh, and to top it off my poor little man has awful baby acne. good thing he''s so cute
i''ve yet to establish any type of ''routine'' with him. i feel like it''s a little early, but i''m also afraid i''m setting up some bad habits. he''s pretty much on a 3 hour schedule. wakes, feeds, quiet alert, then we rock him to sleep. he doesn''t like his bassinet (or sleeping flat on his back) - so i end up holding him most of the time. which i know is bad, but he actually sleeps when i hold him.
oh snap time to feed and subject myself to some fun nipple pain again

be back soon!

Viz, welcome to the ''sleepless'' side!

Mela is the person you need. Romy had tongue tie and she had a terrible time until they had it fixed. I''d get it clipped asap.

 

[fieryred33143]

Hi Natalina and Viz! So nice to see you ladies!!

Natalina- My family all swears that a) cereal should be given as soon as babies hit 6 weeks and b) they *will* STTN after getting cereal. Too early and a myth. IMO the earliest should be 4 months (unless told so by the pedi for something like reflux). Great job with the nursing! Sorry about the clogged duct. I''ve been terrified of the same happening to me since I live attached to my pump. Hopefully your supply will get better. She''s a beauty

Viz-So sorry about the milk protein allergy. I know some moms/babies that went through that and they just gave up breastfeeding as to not change their diet. The fact that you did change your diet says so much about your dedication! Glad his poop is clearing up. The blood in the milk as he drinks doesn''t really do much harm to him (as long as its not a lot). Are you sure you have the best latch? Also, are you using any nipple cream? It really helps and you can leave it on while nursing. Don''t worry about forming habits. It''s too early. I think they start to form habits around the 5 month mark (IIRC).

As for a routine, it''s good to establish one as long as it isn''t necessarily time based because you''ll find soon enough that with growth spurts the timing goes out the window. With Sophia we always focused on a routine (we followed EASY''s guidelines) and didn''t pay much attention to the time.

Hope you ladies are getting as much sleep as you can

 

[Pandora II]

Cute picture Natalina! Love the outfit!

I'm in the middle of having a new kitchen fitted - total nightmare and we have been living in about 10 square feet for the last 2 weeks most of which is full of baby toys! The rest of the house is full of old kitchen contents and flatpacks - we've had no cooker/washing machine/dishwasher etc for 2.5 weeks and if I have to eat anymore take-away I will go crazy!!!

Anyway, I had the marble worktops fitted today and so the sink is in too. Daisy and I couldn't resist trying it out...

 

[Pandora II]

Tomorrow I get tiles and taps!

I''ve just had a call from the jeweller to say my ring is ready 2 days early! Hooray! Now I just need to wait till D wakes up and I''m off to get it... oh and 19 cupboard door knobs...

 

[Burk]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:19:33 AM
Author: vizsla
hello!
this is my first post over on this thread and i have lots and lots of questions!
charlie was born on halloween... the labor was relatively easy, however - we''ve had some rough adjustments since coming home. it started at the hospital when c could not latch on. the lactation consultants thought he was tongue tied since he was basically chewing my nipple instead of sticking his tongue out past his bottom ridge and suggested we see an ENT to have his tongue clipped. while we waited to see the pedi for his first apt, i pumped 10-12x a day until i found another lactation consultant who advised us against getting his tongue clipped and instead suggested i use a nipple shield to train his tongue. at this time (about 1 week old) he started to get extremely fussy, crying uncontrollable for hours! had a really hard time using the nipple shield b/c he was so upset most of the day. finally, he was able to nurse every feeding without much trouble. about two weeks ago, my lactation consultant encouraged me to stop using the shield and we have been working on nursing without one ever since. about that same time DH and i noticed that C''s poos had gone from yellow to black. we made an apt with the pedi right away, where she confirmed what we had feared... he had lots of blood in his poo and had not gained any weight. she suggested that he most likely had MSPI or milk/soy protein intolerance. so i eliminated all dairy and soy from my diet. it''s been a little hard since i looove cheese and soy is in EVERYTHING. after about a week his poos started to clear up and his fussiness subsided. he became a sweet little boy.... however, i know C''s latch is still wonky b/c of his tongue and my poor little nipple looks like a chewed piece of meat. he literally spit up blood the other day from my nipple after i nursed him. i really do not want to stop breastfeeding ... #1 the super hypoallergenic formula is about $50 a can! and #2 i want to breastfeed. i guess all that rambling is just that.. rambling and venting... oh, and to top it off my poor little man has awful baby acne. good thing he''s so cute
i''ve yet to establish any type of ''routine'' with him. i feel like it''s a little early, but i''m also afraid i''m setting up some bad habits. he''s pretty much on a 3 hour schedule. wakes, feeds, quiet alert, then we rock him to sleep. he doesn''t like his bassinet (or sleeping flat on his back) - so i end up holding him most of the time. which i know is bad, but he actually sleeps when i hold him.
oh snap time to feed and subject myself to some fun nipple pain again

be back soon!

So sorry to hear this Viz!! Tayva was milk, soy and corn intollerant so I can totally relate. Long story short I gave up milk and soy but didn''t realize she was intollerant to the corn until way later and ended up giving up on BF because even on my modified diet she was not improving!

She also had reflux....what these poor tiny babies go through. Yuck. Anyway, all this to say I understand what you''re going through and if you have any questions or need to vent, we''re all hear to listen!!

 

[Burk]

CUTE pics ladies!! I love this thread for the pics. T just gave Daisy a computer kiss!

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:51:04 AM
Author: Burk
CUTE pics ladies!! I love this thread for the pics. T just gave Daisy a computer kiss!

Awwww, I''m sure D would send one back - but they''re rather wet and slobbery so I''m not sure Tayva would want one!

 

[Burk]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:53:18 AM
Author: Pandora II

Date: 11/24/2009 9:51:04 AM
Author: Burk
CUTE pics ladies!! I love this thread for the pics. T just gave Daisy a computer kiss!

Awwww, I''m sure D would send one back - but they''re rather wet and slobbery so I''m not sure Tayva would want one!

He he...I love the slobbery kisses!

 

[natalina]

Oh Viz- I feel for you. BF''ing has been a hige chaleenge for me too. Everyone here encouraged me that it gets much better around 5-6 weeks, and while it seemed like an eternity away at the time, at almost 7 weeks now I can say it is getting MUCH better. I will be thinking of you!!! Hugs**** Your little guy has a great mama *****

Pandora- SO cute!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author: TanDogMom

Date: 11/24/2009 1:00:58 AM
Author: neatfreak
TDM I think the most important thing is that A is getting enough sleep. If both of you are happy with your routine and it works-then can I ask why you are even reading HSHHC? There''s no need if what you have is working for you.


Our schedule is almost exactly what HSHHC and TGal recommend. But it isn''t because I forced it to be. Naturally that is just what works for us and keeps my boys the happiest.


I do have an anecdote for you though... I now have 6 friends who all have twins from 8mos-13 mos. So we have 14 kids in all including mine. For those of us who are on a schedule like TGal and I have suggested our kids STTN. And I mean regularly sleep 12 hours at night almost every night. They also throw less temper tantrums during the day IMO in large part because they get regular naps during the day and we respect their naptimes.


The other moms in our twin group who have more varied schedules and are less strict about naps also have a lot more trouble with wake ups at night. Their kids still regularly get up at night and they are the ones to fly off the wall much more often during the day. Obviously this is anecdotal but 14 kids is not too paltry in terms of sample size! And I would say that we are all pretty similar in other ways-so it''s not the worst ''study'' I''ve ever seen.

Since A is still getting up twice a night, for me *personally* that would be enough to think that something isn''t working. By 8 months he should be able to go without feeding at night-so it at least is food for thought. But like I said initially if you are ok with his schedule and he''s happy and getting enough sleep that is all that really matters.

hi NF! You asked why I am reading HSHHC. I read it while I was pregnant and have been referring to the relevant parts as he grows up. I tried to follow it to the letter when he was a newborn although it didn''t really work for us. Anyway, I think it is important to be informed and his book seems to be the most scientific when it comes to sleep. I just re-read the section about A''s age because I realized I had forgotten the details! So now I''m comparing our schedule to the book''s recommended schedule and evaluating whether to change ours. As with most things in parenting, I think it''s important to learn what the experts recommend, then think about whether something makes sense for us.

It would be lovely if he slept 12 hours. I guess that would be the main thing I could hope to gain from the HSHHC schedule!

I like your ''study'' anecdote! Makes perfectly good sense. So far he seems to have a great temperment, but we''re not to the tantrum age yet. Whatever we can do to prevent meltdowns, though, is great.

Let me ask you about the directionality of that cause and effect though. It sounds like you hypothesize that the lack of schedule is causing night wakeups and missed naps, which then causes a sleep deficit which causes more temper tantrums. I agree that this is the most likely explanation. But is it possible that the same parenting style that allows for missed sleep is also a more lax parenting style towards discipline, thus more tantrums? In that case, parenting style is ''causing'' (allowing) more tantrums AND causing a lack of schedule, rather than lack of schedule causing the tantrums. ALternately, could the child have a strong willed temperment, such that he is both more prone to meltdowns and also less willing to sleep when given the opportunity? This might lead a frazzled parent to give up on having a strict schedule. So, the child''s temperment would be causing the lack of schedule and also the meltdowns. (This whole paragraph would be much easier to draw.) A fun, but not-gonna-happen experiment would be to get those moms to schedule one twin and not the other!

I''m just saying in a really nerdy way that I think you are probably right about the cause and effect, but I don''t think it''s the only possible explanation.

I hate that I have misspelled temperment like 4 times in this post but I can''t seem to fix it! Off to bed!

I agree with this...I think it''s both. Lack of sleep and more lax discipline due to parenting style.

 

[TravelingGal]

Pandora and Natalina, they are TOO cute.

Pandora, I don''t remember seeing too many pics of you, but daresay Daisy looks like you? You are both beautiful...

 

[NovemberBride]

Natalina and Pandora, love the pics of Ellie and Daisy, they are such beautiful little girls. Natalina, have you tried the lanolin cream on your nipples? Mine were really sore the first few days and it was a lifesaver (I used the Lansinoh brand). As someone mentioned, you can leave it on for bf''ing.

Today is DH''s first day back at work and my first day home alone with Olivia. She woke up at 7:30 to feed and has been sleeping ever since, so it is going well so far. DH has been great with helping take care of her so I am a little overwhelmed at the thought of doing it all by myself every day. DH is only working today and tomorrow this week, so at least I''ll get to ease into it. Olivia is doing well, we are waking her every 3 hours to feed based on our pedi''s instructions since she was down to 6 lb 4 oz (from 6 14 at birth) at her first pedi visit. I know she would sleep longer and it is hard to bring myself to wake her in the middle of the night. We go back to the pedi on Friday and if she has regained her birthweight we will be allowed to let her go a little longer at night. She has been bf''ing like a champ and has tons of dirty and wet diapers a day, so I am hopeful that she has gained a lot. We are trying to follow the EASY routine, but it''s a little hard this early on. When your babies were newborns, did you wake them to feed or wait for them to wake up?

Yesterday we went to get newborn photos taken. She slept peacefully through about half of them and I can''t wait to see how they turn out. DH''s work also gave us a very generous Visa giftcard for Olivia''s birth and since we already had all the baby stuff we need, we got a DSLR camera. I have been wanting one for a while but couldn''t justify the expense with all the baby stuff. I can''t wait to start using it.

 

[vespergirl]

Date: 11/23/2009 3:47:06 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie
MP LOL! Good! Hunter was a madmad at 2-4 weeks!

Blen We mostly just go on walks and errends, to the mall, to my office, shopping etc. Some friends of mine have mom groups, but its hard to find like-minded moms KWIM? I am a snob when it comes to the smarts of people I hang out with and it is hard to randomly find a group of moms who I really click with!

Too bad PS wasn''t IRL, eh?

Pheonix I wish you well but I don''t know personally or on PS a single EBF baby who slept through the night -- for real not 6 hours -- prior to a year or more without using CIO. Hunter was still waking 2-3 times a night when we finally cracked and used CIO at 9 months old. And he was a GREAT sleeper up until 4 months old! Now he sleeps 11 hours a night without a peep.

***

Sleep Question

So Hunter has decided now that he is sleeping 11 hours straight each night that waking at 6am is the best thing ever! He goes down between 7-8pm depending on when his last nap was and sleeps until 6am, so he gets 10-11 hours of sleep in the night. It doesn''t really matter if we put him down a little earlier or a little later, his body just wakes at 6am it seems. But I don''t wanna get up at 6!!

When do your babies who STTN wake up? Any idea how to get him to sleep in later? We tried letting him just CIO but he didn''t go back to sleep and then it was 7am and time to get up anyways

Is 6am just the normal time for babies to wake up???

Hi Dreamer, my son is 36 months now, but he was also sleeping through the night at Hunter''s age. He was a 12 hour sleeper, so he really slept 7-7 every night. We are early risers, so 7 am was fine for us.

However, if you want him to get up later, you will have to put him down later, and it may take a week or two for his body to adjust to the new schedule. So, maybe start putting him down at 8 or 8:30, and even if he''s waking up at 6 for the first few mornings, he should eventually adjust and start waking up later.

Also, check your afternoon nap schedule - my friend had the same problem, so was complaining that her son was waking up at 6 every day. As it turned out, he was napping from 3-5, then she put him to bed at 6:30 - so he already slept for hours just shortly before she put him to bed. Maybe try to make his afternoon nap earlier, so he''s more tired at bedtime. Good luck!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 11/24/2009 1:56:02 AM
Author: TanDogMom

Let me ask you about the directionality of that cause and effect though. It sounds like you hypothesize that the lack of schedule is causing night wakeups and missed naps, which then causes a sleep deficit which causes more temper tantrums. I agree that this is the most likely explanation. But is it possible that the same parenting style that allows for missed sleep is also a more lax parenting style towards discipline, thus more tantrums? In that case, parenting style is 'causing' (allowing) more tantrums AND causing a lack of schedule, rather than lack of schedule causing the tantrums. ALternately, could the child have a strong willed temperment, such that he is both more prone to meltdowns and also less willing to sleep when given the opportunity? This might lead a frazzled parent to give up on having a strict schedule. So, the child's temperment would be causing the lack of schedule and also the meltdowns. (This whole paragraph would be much easier to draw.) A fun, but not-gonna-happen experiment would be to get those moms to schedule one twin and not the other!


I'm just saying in a really nerdy way that I think you are probably right about the cause and effect, but I don't think it's the only possible explanation.


I hate that I have misspelled temperment like 4 times in this post but I can't seem to fix it! Off to bed!

Yep certainly possible. But I did not mention that a few of these moms have started without a schedule and then got on a schedule. And the night wake ups and the meltdowns during the day dropped off dramatically.

And if my anecdote was about one or two children I would of course think it could be that they are just strong willed. But interestingly some of the strongest willed kids in our group are on a schedule and thus STTN. So it certainly is interesting to watch my built in "study" for me!

Anyway, you are very right that it isn't scientific which is why I have put "study" in quotes all the time. And I am sure that some of the meltdowns are because of their parenting and not sleep issues. But at the same time it has been amazing for me to watch this all unfold. And like I said all of us have a relatively similar parenting style, and the strong willed kids aren't necessarily the ones with the sleep issues, so it certainly makes me wonder. And the fact that a few moms have switched over to the dark side of scheduled bedtimes and naps and said their kids have become happier, are STTN, etc. certainly influences my thinking too!

 

[taovandel]

Viz: Baby birthday twin!! Evan hates his bassinet--but two nights ago we started making him sleep in it (instead of being held or falling asleep in his carseat). I took the advice from here about putting a towel under the mattress to help elevate it and last night he slept like a champ! He was back to his "schedule" from before. (sleeping til about 2, getting up to be fed, then sleeping til 5, getting fed and then sleeping til about 8ish). I didn't have to pick him up and calm him like I did the first night of bassinet training. And he's a much happier baby today then he was yesterday.

Can't help with the breast feeding...I've pretty much given up on it....I pump still but I get nothing at all. It takes like 5 30 minute pumps (with both boobs) to just get an ounce. I figure that one ounce is better than no ounce, right?

 

[Mrs]

no time to post but since I love seeing everyone''s pics I figure I should share too!

 

[fieryred33143]

Pandora and Mrs-Daisy and Sage are beautiful

Mrs-I''m so jealous that you can put Sage''s hair in pig tails! So cute!!

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

Love the pics of the babies! They''re all just so beautiful!

Natalina, ow, my sympathies on the plugged duct. If you were on antibiotics, it sounds like it went into mastitis. I swear, there''s nothing as painful. I think it''s really easy to get them by doing nothing in particular. If you find yourself getting another one, you can add lecithin (1 1200-mg tablet 3-4 times a day and then reduce to 1 or 2 tablets once the plug goes away). To help get rid of the plug, when you''re nursing, point the baby''s chin toward the plug. This can get pretty comical if the plug is on the side -- I''ve gone so far as to lay the baby on the floor and turn myself around to get in the right position.

I know it''s hard having others suggesting that you should start solids at this point, especially if it was a common practice for them. I actually don''t introduce solids until well after 6 months because babies don''t actually need them in the first year. Nothing is as complete as breastmilk so that''s all that Ellie needs right now.

Viz, I feel for you! A close friend of mine had to cut out all dairy from her diet due to her son''s allergies and it was really hard and frustrating for her at first. By the time her little boy was a year old, she was able to start adding things back in. I know it''s a HUGE sacrifice but she felt it was worth it.

Like Pandora says, I''d get that tongue tie clipped asap. It''s a quick, fairly painless procedure but can make a big difference in your nursing relationship.

 

[lili]

Hehe...I come here for the pictures of all the cute and beautiful babies.
They are all growing so fast.

 

[Blenheim]

Turns out that G is cutting both of his bottom teeth. Anyone know how long it takes to go from cutting through the skin to having something that shows up in photographs?

Viz - My understanding is that getting the tongue clipped is an extremely minor surgery and drastically improves things immediately. Eliminating dairy and soy is HARD (I did it for a couple of weeks) but sounds like it may be worth it. Hugs.

TDM - G is on a flexible schedule similar to yours (although we do things at different times), and it''s working fine for us. FWIW, G isn''t at the tantrum age yet but I''ve gotten comments that he''s one of the happiest babies ever.

I can see Neat''s point though about a more rigid schedule actually making things easier - I wanted to meet up with my mom a few days ago "after G''s morning nap" and he wasn''t acting tired at his normal time, and so I pushed back meeting her and I think that it would have been easier if I could have given her a definite time. I''m debating trying out a more HSHHC-like schedule after Thanksgiving just to see how it does.

Nat - we never introduced cereal, but introduced solids at something like 6 months 1 week. It''s hard when people give you advice that''s no longer current. You could just tell them that you talked to your pediatrician who said that the current advice is no solids before 6 months. Pumping does tend to give less milk than nursing does, plus there''s the chance that she''s going through a growth spurt (there''s one sometime around 6 wks). Hang in there!

Pandora, Mrs - how adorable!!

Tao - 1 oz is better than nothing, but seriously, don''t kill yourself. That''s just so much time that you''re pumping when you could be cuddling with your baby, taking a shower, etc. Just make sure that you''re taking care of yourself.