PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM
Author: natalina
When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Well I don''t want to be blunt, but that is an old wives tale

There is *no scientific proof* that starting solids early helps babies to sleep. The World Healrth organization suggests waiting until 6 months to start any solids and so do most pediatric societies and government health organizations.

That said, some moms start cereals earlier if their child is showing the signs of being ready: Showing interest in your food, able to sit up with aid and able to hold head up without any aid, able to swallow foods (there is a tongue reflex that stops them swallowing foods too young). CDT started Les on solids a little after 3 months I think? But 7 weeks is too early by any standard and could cause stomach issues you don''t want to deal with.

Parents mean well, but especially if they did not excluseively BF their advice is best taken with a grain of salt... exclusively BF babies simply don''t sleep through the night for a long long time

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 9:19:33 AM
Author: vizsla
hello!
this is my first post over on this thread and i have lots and lots of questions!
charlie was born on halloween... the labor was relatively easy, however - we''ve had some rough adjustments since coming home. it started at the hospital when c could not latch on. the lactation consultants thought he was tongue tied since he was basically chewing my nipple instead of sticking his tongue out past his bottom ridge and suggested we see an ENT to have his tongue clipped. while we waited to see the pedi for his first apt, i pumped 10-12x a day until i found another lactation consultant who advised us against getting his tongue clipped and instead suggested i use a nipple shield to train his tongue. at this time (about 1 week old) he started to get extremely fussy, crying uncontrollable for hours! had a really hard time using the nipple shield b/c he was so upset most of the day. finally, he was able to nurse every feeding without much trouble. about two weeks ago, my lactation consultant encouraged me to stop using the shield and we have been working on nursing without one ever since. about that same time DH and i noticed that C''s poos had gone from yellow to black. we made an apt with the pedi right away, where she confirmed what we had feared... he had lots of blood in his poo and had not gained any weight. she suggested that he most likely had MSPI or milk/soy protein intolerance. so i eliminated all dairy and soy from my diet. it''s been a little hard since i looove cheese and soy is in EVERYTHING. after about a week his poos started to clear up and his fussiness subsided. he became a sweet little boy.... however, i know C''s latch is still wonky b/c of his tongue and my poor little nipple looks like a chewed piece of meat. he literally spit up blood the other day from my nipple after i nursed him. i really do not want to stop breastfeeding ... #1 the super hypoallergenic formula is about $50 a can! and #2 i want to breastfeed. i guess all that rambling is just that.. rambling and venting... oh, and to top it off my poor little man has awful baby acne. good thing he''s so cute
i''ve yet to establish any type of ''routine'' with him. i feel like it''s a little early, but i''m also afraid i''m setting up some bad habits. he''s pretty much on a 3 hour schedule. wakes, feeds, quiet alert, then we rock him to sleep. he doesn''t like his bassinet (or sleeping flat on his back) - so i end up holding him most of the time. which i know is bad, but he actually sleeps when i hold him.
oh snap time to feed and subject myself to some fun nipple pain again

be back soon!

Vizla I hear you on wanting to keep BFing! If it is important to you, then there are ways to make it work. I know it is gross, but I was reading on Dr. Jack Newman''s site that blood from your nipple doesn''t harm your child, so yo ucan keep nursing even in that circumstance if you choose to. I would encourage you to see more LCs and keep looking into solutions to the pain! Lots of women go through what you are going through a find the solution. Mela''s son was tongue tied so maybe she can help you out?

As for scheduling, your son is only like 3-4 weeks old. The first 6 weeks or so are about SURVIVAL. Don''t worry about habits and do what you need to do. We carried Hunter for the first month all the time, and it was fine! Especially if you are dealing with BFins issues DON"T WORRY ABOUT IT. Tackle one issue at a time. When that is solved, then you can think about the rest

 

[MustangGal]

Here''s my try at addressing all the things going on today

.

Food - doesn''t help or hinder sleep. We started Kyle at 4 months, but he was also sittng on his own at that point and STTN. If I had been BFing I would have waited until 6 months.

Sleep - I know my guy is formula fed, so it''ll be different for the BF ones, but Kyle started going 9pm-4:30am at 6 weeks, and by 3 months was going 9pm-6am. Since about 6 months he''s doing 7:30pm to 6am, with 2 naps, 1 at 9/9:30am, the other at 2pm. Having a set nap/sleep schedule really does make things easier. We were at a car show this weekend during morning nap time, and he concked out in the stroller for an hour while we walked around! I usually do errand/meetings in the middle of the day between naps.

Fot the really cracked nipples, I would suggest trying the shield again. A family friend ended up using them the entire time she BF, she started because of nipple issues, then the baby got so used to them nd wouldn''t latch wihout them on. It might be worth the try to see if it helps. I can''t imagine nipples so torn up you''re bleeding while feeding, that must be painful!

***

DH managed to let Kyle dive off the couch last night

. I handed Kyle to him while he was sitting there, Kyle crawled off and sat beside him, DH took the remote away form the baby, then proceeded to go back to watching the TV and forgot Kyle was there! 2 seconds later he went head-first off the seat cushions onto the carpet. I think it scared him more than anything, he isn''t harmed at all, but DH is in the dog house for that one!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 10:11:06 AM
Author: natalina
Oh Viz- I feel for you. BF''ing has been a hige chaleenge for me too. Everyone here encouraged me that it gets much better around 5-6 weeks, and while it seemed like an eternity away at the time, at almost 7 weeks now I can say it is getting MUCH better. I will be thinking of you!!! Hugs**** Your little guy has a great mama *****

Pandora- SO cute!

I''m so glad things have gotten better!

 

[phoenixgirl]

November, I hope the rest of your day has gone well! Re waking up to feed, I wonder if us not waking Claire up overnight (she still ate every 4-5 hours, just not 3) during her second week led to her only gaining an ounce and being over half a pound short of her birthweight at two weeks, which then led to feeding/formula/pumping insanity. So if the pediatrician says to wake her up, I'd continue to do so at least until she regains her birthweight. Then I'd only do it during the day but set your alarm for 4 to 5 hours overnight just in case Olivia doesn't wake up on her own. Now that Claire is in her fifth week, I am aiming to have her feed every 2.5 to 3.5 hours during the day and up to every 5 hours at night (per Baby Wise). But my (totally unscientific) theory is that if you don't wake up Olivia up to eat every 2 to 3 hours during the day, then you won't "bank" the extra calories for her to go longer at night. One of my LCs said newborns need to be woken up to eat because the L&D drugs can stay in their system for weeks, thus causing them to be sleepy and not wake up as much as they should to eat. I also figure that a baby who's awoken during the day will be sleepier and more likely to go longer stretches at night.

I also am not really having success with EASY because Claire almost always falls asleep after feeding. If she doesn't, then she'll usually be up the whole time between feedings. If she does fall asleep, she'll often stay asleep the whole time, but when she does wake up before a feeding, she usually isn't fussy. So I'm wondering why I want to force her to stay awake when she seems to be doing well the way things are. I know spit up isn't the end of the world, but if I were to force Claire to stay awake at the end of each feeding, she'd spit up a lot more because she often likes to be put down to wriggle when she's awake, and if I put her down right after feeding, she spits up.

More schedule oriented moms, when should I start putting Claire in her room at the same time each night? We often keep her with us downstairs until she eats around 10 or we get tired. Now that she's sleeping in her own room, I'm wondering when we should get a routine going of putting her down at the same time each night with a song and/or book. I realize she's only one month old, but I also think routine is good for babies and may help get her in a good rhythm. Currently her eating times shift each day, but perhaps this would be a step in the direction of standardizing them. It is my goal to have her STTN in the next few months; my sister and closest friend both followed Baby Wise and had their babies STTN (and EBF) by around 2 months with the exception of my sister's youngest, so I understand that not every child has the temperament for it, but I also believe it's possible for many children.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Novemberbride I woke Hunter every 3 hours until he showed a good weight gain, at about 2 weeks old? But he had a large weight loss in the week it took for my milk to come in so it may not be relevant.

Pheonix We started putting Hunter down in his bed around 7 pm, give or take a half hour either way depending on his naps that day, when he was 4 weeks. There were some bumpy nights at that time because he started having more of an opinion about things, but we used the pick-up-put-down method from the baby whisperer and it worked a charm. Took 3 nights and over an hour in the beginning to get him to sleep on his own, but he did.

Tao Ditto Blen!

All the babies are so beautiful!!

And thanks again for all the sleep comments!

 

[vizsla]

thanks you ladies for all of your support!!!!!
you are all so sweet!!
i re-read my last post and i was all over the place... sorry about that.

i''ve seen two pedis who don''t *really* think that he is tongue tied.. just that he needs to learn to stick his tongue out farther (right now my nipple looks like a tube of lipstick when he pulls off instead of rounded). however, i think his tongue DOES have something to do with his latch issues. and it causes him to get extremely upset when he nurses. i''m really nervous about putting him on the boob that is really sore/cracked b/c we are trying to get his GI issues cleared up -- if i keep feeding him blood, it is showing up in his poo and then we don''t know if i''ve cleared up any milk/soy allergy or if it''s from my nipple. at this point the diet is so...... whatever. i don''t even care about cheese or having to read every label, i just want my little man to feel better. we had a super rough day today and i ended up on the kitchen floor, no shirt, with a crying baby trying to make a bottle of formula (which i have to tell myself is not poison). i have another apt with a lactation consultant tomorrow. i am very committed to breastfeeding and know i will make it thru, but it''s really hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now.

re: sleeping.. yes, we''ve put a towel under his bassinet to elevate it, but he really won''t sleep in it unless he''s been asleep in our arms for a long period of time... it''s almost like we are tricking him when we put him down and then he only sleeps for about 30 mins before the jig is up

nat: misery loves company and, as awful as it probably sounds, i take total comfort in hearing other people''s stories of breastfeeding. it''s so hard because i think it''s what i''m "supposed" to do, and it''s not working... so many of my friends haven''t had issues so they are no help.

hey bday twin!!!! bags of sugar and birthday cake! we are in for some FUN bday parties, right?

my new theory is that because my baby isn''t latching correctly, he isn''t pulling enough milk, so my milk supply is small and it''s causing him extra frustration. i had DH give him a bottle and he''s sawing logs. UGH.

thanks for the advice on survival. i have such fear of creating a sleep monster.

on a happier note i did get a coo and smile today - it makes everything worth it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 4:50:56 PM
Author: vizsla
... we had a super rough day today and i ended up on the kitchen floor, no shirt, with a crying baby trying to make a bottle of formula (which i have to tell myself is not poison). i have another apt with a lactation consultant tomorrow. i am very committed to breastfeeding and know i will make it thru, but it''s really hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel right now....

re: sleeping.. yes, we''ve put a towel under his bassinet to elevate it, but he really won''t sleep in it unless he''s been asleep in our arms for a long period of time... it''s almost like we are tricking him when we put him down and then he only sleeps for about 30 mins before the jig is up

been there!

I hated supplementing Hunter but it worked and he was EBF until I introduced solids at 6mo. As for sleeping at that age, as I said Hunter ws in our arms for a long time too. its ok!

 

[cdt1101]

Date: 11/24/2009 3:38:39 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM

Author: natalina

When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Well I don''t want to be blunt, but that is an old wives tale

There is *no scientific proof* that starting solids early helps babies to sleep. The World Healrth organization suggests waiting until 6 months to start any solids and so do most pediatric societies and government health organizations.


That said, some moms start cereals earlier if their child is showing the signs of being ready: Showing interest in your food, able to sit up with aid and able to hold head up without any aid, able to swallow foods (there is a tongue reflex that stops them swallowing foods too young). CDT started Les on solids a little after 3 months I think? But 7 weeks is too early by any standard and could cause stomach issues you don''t want to deal with.


Parents mean well, but especially if they did not excluseively BF their advice is best taken with a grain of salt... exclusively BF babies simply don''t sleep through the night for a long long time

Natalina - we were recommended to add rice cereal to the bottle at 7 weeks because Lex had reflux. It gave him horrible gas and made sleeping worse! So we stopped after about 5 days. Dreamer is kind of correct in that we started giving him VERY small amounts of oatmeal at about 3 1/2 months, but it wasn''t everyday. I think Mgal and I are the only current infant mommies who started before 6 months, but we are also the only who didn''t BF (although I think she did for a period of time in the beginning). At 4 months we started giving Lex baby food, but it was never everyday and it was an oz at most. He will be 6 months next week and currently the only solids he gets is 2 TBL of oatmeal mixed w/ 1-2 oz of fruit or vegetable puree. FWIW, our pedi has been 100% in agreement w/ my approach so far, he even suggested increasing solids at this point, but I want to wait at least another month before I do that. Other than the gas issues at 7 weeks (which is way too early I think for cereal), Lex had done GREAT w/ solids.

As MGal stated, if I had EBF I would have waited to introduce solids until 6 months.

I''ve said this a million times here, but I really think mommies should do what THEY feel is best for their child (assuming their pedi is ok w/ it) and ignore advise from everyone else

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 5:16:42 PM
Author: cdt1101


I''ve said this a million times here, but I really think mommies should do what THEY feel is best for their child (assuming their pedi is ok w/ it) and ignore advise from everyone else

Then we will all ignore you and do *everything* our mom''s tell us to do!

 

[Pandora II]

Viz, commiserations on the bleeding nipples - I had those for weeks, and poor Daisy used to get pink expressed milk for a while as I had to keep pumping despite the state of them to get my supply up.

My sister said her youngest got pink milk for months!

I also supplemented for the first five weeks - and then EBF. D didn''t get nipple confusion, definitely preferred mummy milk over formula and boob over bottle, but she will take a bottle if I need her too, whereas many of my RL friends who waited till later to introduce one have found the baby refuses it which then means they struggle to leave the baby at all. So, swings and roundabouts...

I agree it''s consoling to hear other bfing horror stories - makes up for the ''oh so simple'' advice you get in antenatal classes!

Mrs - Sage is such a cutie and I adore her hair!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 3:38:39 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM
Author: natalina
When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Well I don''t want to be blunt, but that is an old wives tale

There is *no scientific proof* that starting solids early helps babies to sleep. The World Healrth organization suggests waiting until 6 months to start any solids and so do most pediatric societies and government health organizations.

That said, some moms start cereals earlier if their child is showing the signs of being ready: Showing interest in your food, able to sit up with aid and able to hold head up without any aid, able to swallow foods (there is a tongue reflex that stops them swallowing foods too young). CDT started Les on solids a little after 3 months I think? But 7 weeks is too early by any standard and could cause stomach issues you don''t want to deal with.

Parents mean well, but especially if they did not excluseively BF their advice is best taken with a grain of salt... exclusively BF babies simply don''t sleep through the night for a long long time

Not necessarily, (although I do buy that it takes longer). My BFF''s kids were both exclusively breastfed (she had enough milk to feed an army I think) and she slept through 12 hours at 3 and 4 months respectively. I learned a lot about what is possible from her.

 

[rockpaperscissors67]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:57:38 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Not necessarily, (although I do buy that it takes longer). My BFF''s kids were both exclusively breastfed (she had enough milk to feed an army I think) and she slept through 12 hours at 3 and 4 months respectively. I learned a lot about what is possible from her.

You know what''s always cracked me up? The definition of sleeping through the night when it comes to babies is 5 straight hours. LOL! With my first child, I thought sleeping through the night meant like 8 hours like adults sleep.

I''ve never done any sleep training with my kids because I co-slept with them starting with #3 and found they would just gradually stretch out their sleep times. Oddly enough, they''re all good sleepers now so I feel like I got really lucky. Of course, I''m the one with insomnia now.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 6:57:38 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/24/2009 3:38:39 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM
Author: natalina
When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Well I don''t want to be blunt, but that is an old wives tale

There is *no scientific proof* that starting solids early helps babies to sleep. The World Healrth organization suggests waiting until 6 months to start any solids and so do most pediatric societies and government health organizations.

That said, some moms start cereals earlier if their child is showing the signs of being ready: Showing interest in your food, able to sit up with aid and able to hold head up without any aid, able to swallow foods (there is a tongue reflex that stops them swallowing foods too young). CDT started Les on solids a little after 3 months I think? But 7 weeks is too early by any standard and could cause stomach issues you don''t want to deal with.

Parents mean well, but especially if they did not excluseively BF their advice is best taken with a grain of salt... exclusively BF babies simply don''t sleep through the night for a long long time

Not necessarily, (although I do buy that it takes longer). My BFF''s kids were both exclusively breastfed (she had enough milk to feed an army I think) and she slept through 12 hours at 3 and 4 months respectively. I learned a lot about what is possible from her.

Well there is always an exception to every rule

That makes one person out of about 30 who I know IRL and here!

I would like to have enough milk to feed an army!

 

[phoenixgirl]

My sister and a close friend also had EBF babies STTN pretty early on. That''s why I''m so anxious about doing everything "right" while Claire is still so little -- I know it''s possible but also that it takes some conscious effort and a bit of luck as well.

 

[NYCsparkle]

Holiday photos are done...

 

[NYCsparkle]

well that pic is tiny...can''t make it bigger.....

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 8:05:33 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 6:57:38 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/24/2009 3:38:39 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 9:18:07 AM
Author: natalina
When did/will you all introduce cereal? My mom and gma are telling me to start now before bed to help her sleep at night. She''ll be 7 weeks tomorrow. My mom swears she did it this early with my brother and I and it made us much happier.

Well I don''t want to be blunt, but that is an old wives tale

There is *no scientific proof* that starting solids early helps babies to sleep. The World Healrth organization suggests waiting until 6 months to start any solids and so do most pediatric societies and government health organizations.

That said, some moms start cereals earlier if their child is showing the signs of being ready: Showing interest in your food, able to sit up with aid and able to hold head up without any aid, able to swallow foods (there is a tongue reflex that stops them swallowing foods too young). CDT started Les on solids a little after 3 months I think? But 7 weeks is too early by any standard and could cause stomach issues you don''t want to deal with.

Parents mean well, but especially if they did not excluseively BF their advice is best taken with a grain of salt... exclusively BF babies simply don''t sleep through the night for a long long time

Not necessarily, (although I do buy that it takes longer). My BFF''s kids were both exclusively breastfed (she had enough milk to feed an army I think) and she slept through 12 hours at 3 and 4 months respectively. I learned a lot about what is possible from her.

Well there is always an exception to every rule

That makes one person out of about 30 who I know IRL and here!

I would like to have enough milk to feed an army!

Ha, I''ll add two more...her SIL (who also followed HSHHC) did it with all THREE of her breastfed kids. My other friend who followed more of a ferber method (and it actually worked, go figure) also breastfed and her son slept through (the untechnical definition of 12 hours) very early.

So I guess that''s why I always knew Amelia would and could...my close circle of friends at the time did it with their kids. Now, my current social circle (all local friends and not old buds), I''m the only one who had a kid sleep 12 hours at 3 months, but they are a mess when it comes to schedules, and the majority formula fed, go figure!!!

 

[Mara]

viz, have you guys tried a bouncer or something that has movement to help soothe him if he doesn''t like to sleep flat? i have read of this working for some moms but obviously i have no experience with it yet.

like TG i also have a friend who exclusively BF, whose son was sleeping from 7pm to 6am within 9 weeks of birth. i can only dream!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/24/2009 10:19:53 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ha, I''ll add two more...her SIL (who also followed HSHHC) did it with all THREE of her breastfed kids. My other friend who followed more of a ferber method (and it actually worked, go figure) also breastfed and her son slept through (the untechnical definition of 12 hours) very early.

So I guess that''s why I always knew Amelia would and could...my close circle of friends at the time did it with their kids. Now, my current social circle (all local friends and not old buds), I''m the only one who had a kid sleep 12 hours at 3 months, but they are a mess when it comes to schedules, and the majority formula fed, go figure!!!

Well there is a strong genetic component to sleeping etc., and also in a child''s responsiveness to various techniques (e.g., it is harder to use CIO or a child who will cry until vomiting or who will bang his her head on the wall than it is to use it on a compliant child), so it makes sense that in families there would be a number of kids all doing the same thing. Beyond that, it seems to me that sleeping through early usually involves some form of CIO. Was that the case with these people you knew? Ferber obviously, but the others? Parents really vary in their opinions of using that technique and many don''t use it until, like me, they reach their limit with night wakings. So that alone could stop a lot of people from having babies sleep 12 hours early on. Philosophically many parents don''t think that younger babies even *should* sleep 12 hours. So I think you are correct that expectations play a role, because it changes what a parent is willing or able to do.

 

[fieryred33143]

I don''t know. What worked for me is setting my expectations low. Sophia will STTN when she STTN. The biggest frustration for me was that we can have the same exact routine every day and one day she''ll sleep all night, another she wakes every 2 hours, and another she''ll give me long stretches but not all night. So I stopped focusing on trying to get her to sleep all night and instead on being consistent and reading her sleeping cues so that I don''t miss it. I would love for Sophia to STTN now because I''m sometimes so exhausted for work that I''ll be driving on the highway and have no idea how I got there. We were going to CIO but found out today that my december trip is being pushed to february so we''re just going to carry on as normal. I have hope it''ll happen eventually.

I think expecting that your baby should/will STTN by a certain age is just setting yourself up for potential disappointment. If it happens great. If not invest in a good coffee maker

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:11:09 AM
Author: fiery
I don''t know. What worked for me is setting my expectations low. Sophia will STTN when she STTN. The biggest frustration for me was that we can have the same exact routine every day and one day she''ll sleep all night, another she wakes every 2 hours, and another she''ll give me long stretches but not all night. So I stopped focusing on trying to get her to sleep all night and instead on being consistent and reading her sleeping cues so that I don''t miss it. I would love for Sophia to STTN now because I''m sometimes so exhausted for work that I''ll be driving on the highway and have no idea how I got there. We were going to CIO but found out today that my december trip is being pushed to february so we''re just going to carry on as normal. I have hope it''ll happen eventually.

I think expecting that your baby should/will STTN by a certain age is just setting yourself up for potential disappointment. If it happens great. If not invest in a good coffee maker

I agree with this, with all aspects of parenting. Although we can hope and plan and do our best, there are so many things that we simply cannot control! What s the AA mantra: Accept what we cannot change, change what we can, and have the wisdom to know the difference

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:16:06 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/25/2009 12:11:09 AM

Author: fiery

I don''t know. What worked for me is setting my expectations low. Sophia will STTN when she STTN. The biggest frustration for me was that we can have the same exact routine every day and one day she''ll sleep all night, another she wakes every 2 hours, and another she''ll give me long stretches but not all night. So I stopped focusing on trying to get her to sleep all night and instead on being consistent and reading her sleeping cues so that I don''t miss it. I would love for Sophia to STTN now because I''m sometimes so exhausted for work that I''ll be driving on the highway and have no idea how I got there. We were going to CIO but found out today that my december trip is being pushed to february so we''re just going to carry on as normal. I have hope it''ll happen eventually.


I think expecting that your baby should/will STTN by a certain age is just setting yourself up for potential disappointment. If it happens great. If not invest in a good coffee maker

I agree with this, with all aspects of parenting. Although we can hope and plan and do our best, there are so many things that we simply cannot control! What s the AA mantra: Accept what we cannot change, change what we can, and have the wisdom to know the difference

Well said, both of you!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/24/2009 11:59:38 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/24/2009 10:19:53 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Ha, I'll add two more...her SIL (who also followed HSHHC) did it with all THREE of her breastfed kids. My other friend who followed more of a ferber method (and it actually worked, go figure) also breastfed and her son slept through (the untechnical definition of 12 hours) very early.

So I guess that's why I always knew Amelia would and could...my close circle of friends at the time did it with their kids. Now, my current social circle (all local friends and not old buds), I'm the only one who had a kid sleep 12 hours at 3 months, but they are a mess when it comes to schedules, and the majority formula fed, go figure!!!

Well there is a strong genetic component to sleeping etc., and also in a child's responsiveness to various techniques (e.g., it is harder to use CIO or a child who will cry until vomiting or who will bang his her head on the wall than it is to use it on a compliant child), so it makes sense that in families there would be a number of kids all doing the same thing. Beyond that, it seems to me that sleeping through early usually involves some form of CIO. Was that the case with these people you knew? Ferber obviously, but the others? Parents really vary in their opinions of using that technique and many don't use it until, like me, they reach their limit with night wakings. So that alone could stop a lot of people from having babies sleep 12 hours early on. Philosophically many parents don't think that younger babies even *should* sleep 12 hours. So I think you are correct that expectations play a role, because it changes what a parent is willing or able to do.

DD, I would always be the first here to say do what works for you (collectively, not you specifically).

Yes, CIO was the method used for both my BFF and her SIL. Usually taking only 2-3 days and since they were young, it didn't seem like they cried that much but I wasn't there. I actually did NOT have to use CIO, but HSHHC does state that if you can learn to read signs early and get them down in that window, CIO is unnecessary and for me personally, I found that to be the case and only had to use it once or twice much later when she has a weird episode.

The CIO debate can rage on, but my OPINION is that it hurts the parent and not the child in MOST cases (I can't speak for vomiters, because I don't know of any who got that upset at a YOUNG age). I also firmly believe that babies do not NEED night feedings after 4 months, and that is backed by my ped (and I am sure many peds would disagree with him.) So to me, around 4-5 months of age is a good time to try CIO if you are going to attempt it.

So yes, I do think expectations play a role. I also think it's very important to have REALISTIC expectations. If you are not a disciplined sort of person and willing to keep at things even when it's tough, then I don't think it's realistic for you to expect your child will sleep 12 hours by X age. Things have to be happening all along the way and it takes a lot from the parents to do so unless you are SUPER lucky with your kid (and I imagine that happens too.) In that sense, I agree with Fiery...for some, it is much better not to have expectations like that because you are setting yourself up for a lot of frustration. Again, for me PERSONALLY, Amelia's sleep was something that I was going tackle with all the energy I had, and then some. In the early days, I used to blog here plenty about what I was doing and it was pretty obvious I was hugely focused on sleep and understanding sleep patterns. Before I had a kid, I truly believe that once you have one, sleep is the key to all things domestic bliss. Everything else falls into place if sleep is working well, WHATEVER method is used.

Mothers know their children best...or at least what they can manage best! I know a couple of people who hit walls like you did and decided to try CIO because they could not take it anymore. One did it at a year old (the mom of the boy whose eyes I posted on another thread, lol) and it worked. Another tried when her son was 1.5 and miserably failed because his screaming was insane and he hurt himself trying to escape his crib. For the moms who didn't believe in CIO at first, I often wonder why decided it was fine and it wasn't going to harm their kid...I guess they couldn't take it anymore and was getting desperate? And if they do use it to success...is it possible that CIO can be used on young babies just fine? It seems a lot less traumatic than the mother who reached the end of her rope and tried it when the kid was a year or older.

Anyway, to those who just shrug and say it's not possible for infants to sleep through the night at a young age, I say, that's fine...you'll make do great. But I do think it can also be a disservice to say such a thing because it is possible for expectations to produce results and alter behaviors accordingly to achieve those results.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 11/25/2009 12:49:27 AM
Author: TravelingGal
For the moms who didn''t believe in CIO at first, I often wonder why decided it was fine and it wasn''t going to harm their kid...I guess they couldn''t take it anymore and was getting desperate? And if they do use it to success...is it possible that CIO can be used on young babies just fine? It seems a lot less traumatic than the mother who reached the end of her rope and tried it when the kid was a year or older.

I actually agree with everything you wrote, except that I may put slightly more emphasis on the childs disposition and you may put slightly more on the parents'' behaviour.

As to the question above, for me it was a cost benefit thing. What is the cost to me versus what is the cost to Hunter? He may not have needed to eat at night from 4 months to 9 months, but he needed something -- maybe comfort or companionship or a little snuggle. It wasn''t costing me very much to give that to him -- I actually felt pretty good on the limited sleep I had. But then the scales tipped and enough was enough.

I have thought a little about whether we would use CIO sooner with our next child. I do wonder if it would be better to do it earlier. But I think I would do things the same way again. I miss those nights with my son, even when it was 3-4 times.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/25/2009 1:30:45 AM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 11/25/2009 12:49:27 AM

Author: TravelingGal

For the moms who didn't believe in CIO at first, I often wonder why decided it was fine and it wasn't going to harm their kid...I guess they couldn't take it anymore and was getting desperate? And if they do use it to success...is it possible that CIO can be used on young babies just fine? It seems a lot less traumatic than the mother who reached the end of her rope and tried it when the kid was a year or older.

I actually agree with everything you wrote, except that I may put slightly more emphasis on the childs disposition and you may put slightly more on the parents' behaviour.


As to the question above, for me it was a cost benefit thing. What is the cost to me versus what is the cost to Hunter? He may not have needed to eat at night from 4 months to 9 months, but he needed something -- maybe comfort or companionship or a little snuggle. It wasn't costing me very much to give that to him -- I actually felt pretty good on the limited sleep I had. But then the scales tipped and enough was enough.


I have thought a little about whether we would use CIO sooner with our next child. I do wonder if it would be better to do it earlier. But I think I would do things the same way again. I miss those nights with my son, even when it was 3-4 times.

I agree. I don't inherently oppose CIO, but for our particular situation I haven't felt it was the right choice - yet. I like how DD put it re: the costs and benefits.

IMO, there is a big difference in a baby waking up hungry, having a quick feed, and right back to sleep vs a baby who is waking up for company or to play. What I've got is the former. If and when he does the latter is when we do CIO.

I read HSHHC while pregnant, and have referred to it many times in the last few months. There were lots of things that *should* have worked for us and that I planned to do or did for a while. My kid's disposition is a lot different than I had expected, and we've had to make some changes to accommodate the real life situation. Some times things don't happen exactly as they *should*. For some of us it's breastfeeding, for some it's sleep, for some it's something else. Some things are obviously mistakes, but I think there is a wide range of things that work. There isn't only one right way. I mean, if there was, why would there be so many books about baby care? There would only need to be one short book if the same things worked for every child!

I've been thinking more about schedules. A friend's young toddler is scheduled down to the minute. She has dinner at 6:00. Not 5:55. Not 6:05. Six on the dot. My friend told me that her child has an absolute meltdown if things don't happen on the EXACT schedule. This would drive me crazy. I don't want A to be that scheduled. Sometimes things happen that we can't control (like getting stuck in a traffic jam) or that we don't want to miss (like spending a few minutes talking with a neighbor on our way inside), and I want him to grow up able to adapt within reason. I don't want him to have no clue whether dinner will be at 5pm or 8 pm or anywhere in between, because that isn't fair, but I want him to be somewhat adaptable. So I think I'm going to stick with our flexible routine and give some thought to an earlier bedtime and try to cut out the night feeding, and then I bet his wakeup will get earlier on its own.


Blen and Pandora thank you for telling me more about you guys's schedules. I'm glad I am not the only one who finds a flexible routine works!

Splitting the thread I mentioned this a while ago, but I think we really should think about the future of the PS mom threads. I still like the idea of retitling the threads so that they group people by baby's birthday so we don't have to keep jumping threads and so we don't all end up on the toddlers thread. It seems like they have a pretty good dialogue going on there and so do we on this thread. It would be nice to keep "talking" to the same people as our babies get older, IMO, without any one thread becoming huge. Maybe the brand new moms want to have their own thread which the next bunch of preggos can join as they have their babies. Not sure what you all want to do, but I do think we should think about it as our numbers grow!

ETA I don't mean my comment to sound unwelcoming to the new moms! welcome!!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/25/2009 2:01:24 AM
Author: TanDogMom

I''ve been thinking more about schedules. A friend''s young toddler is scheduled down to the minute. She has dinner at 6:00. Not 5:55. Not 6:05. Six on the dot. My friend told me that her child has an absolute meltdown if things don''t happen on the EXACT schedule. This would drive me crazy. I don''t want A to be that scheduled. Sometimes things happen that we can''t control (like getting stuck in a traffic jam) or that we don''t want to miss (like spending a few minutes talking with a neighbor on our way inside), and I want him to grow up able to adapt within reason. I don''t want him to have no clue whether dinner will be at 5pm or 8 pm or anywhere in between, because that isn''t fair, but I want him to be somewhat adaptable. So I think I''m going to stick with our flexible routine and give some thought to an earlier bedtime and try to cut out the night feeding, and then I bet his wakeup will get earlier on its own.

Wow, never heard of such a thing. Didn''t know toddlers knew how to tell time!!!

I clockwatch, but I''m certainly not exact. I guess because Amelia''s pretty adaptable, even though she''s on a schedule I don''t have to worry!

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 11/25/2009 2:07:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/25/2009 2:01:24 AM

Author: TanDogMom


I''ve been thinking more about schedules. A friend''s young toddler is scheduled down to the minute. She has dinner at 6:00. Not 5:55. Not 6:05. Six on the dot. My friend told me that her child has an absolute meltdown if things don''t happen on the EXACT schedule. This would drive me crazy. I don''t want A to be that scheduled. Sometimes things happen that we can''t control (like getting stuck in a traffic jam) or that we don''t want to miss (like spending a few minutes talking with a neighbor on our way inside), and I want him to grow up able to adapt within reason. I don''t want him to have no clue whether dinner will be at 5pm or 8 pm or anywhere in between, because that isn''t fair, but I want him to be somewhat adaptable. So I think I''m going to stick with our flexible routine and give some thought to an earlier bedtime and try to cut out the night feeding, and then I bet his wakeup will get earlier on its own.

Wow, never heard of such a thing. Didn''t know toddlers knew how to tell time!!!


I clockwatch, but I''m certainly not exact. I guess because Amelia''s pretty adaptable, even though she''s on a schedule I don''t have to worry!

It seems strange to me too, but this is what my friend (acquaintance, really) said. She was quite clear about it. Obviously the daughter isn''t telling clock time, but I guess her biological clock is very exact.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/25/2009 2:10:30 AM
Author: TanDogMom

Date: 11/25/2009 2:07:05 AM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 11/25/2009 2:01:24 AM

Author: TanDogMom


I''ve been thinking more about schedules. A friend''s young toddler is scheduled down to the minute. She has dinner at 6:00. Not 5:55. Not 6:05. Six on the dot. My friend told me that her child has an absolute meltdown if things don''t happen on the EXACT schedule. This would drive me crazy. I don''t want A to be that scheduled. Sometimes things happen that we can''t control (like getting stuck in a traffic jam) or that we don''t want to miss (like spending a few minutes talking with a neighbor on our way inside), and I want him to grow up able to adapt within reason. I don''t want him to have no clue whether dinner will be at 5pm or 8 pm or anywhere in between, because that isn''t fair, but I want him to be somewhat adaptable. So I think I''m going to stick with our flexible routine and give some thought to an earlier bedtime and try to cut out the night feeding, and then I bet his wakeup will get earlier on its own.

Wow, never heard of such a thing. Didn''t know toddlers knew how to tell time!!!


I clockwatch, but I''m certainly not exact. I guess because Amelia''s pretty adaptable, even though she''s on a schedule I don''t have to worry!

It seems strange to me too, but this is what my friend (acquaintance, really) said. She was quite clear about it. Obviously the daughter isn''t telling clock time, but I guess her biological clock is very exact.

LOL, you learn something new every day. I''m also a believer in not letting meltdowns dictate what I do.

 

[mia1181]

Wow weird coincidence in this discussion but I just happened to be reading HSHHC today (pulling out childcare books to lend my pregnant sister) and the author said that whether a baby is breastfed, bottlefed or even tubefed it doesn''t effect his progression of sleep/wake rhythms (top of page 77). I just thought it was interesting since I too had always heard that breastmilk is digested faster. The author also suggested that perhaps the reason breastfed babies are commonly fed more at night might be because the mother is simply more responsive to the baby''s noises.

Okay I am going back to non-mommyland, but just had to butt in because it was so strange I just read that today!