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Questions! Cushion Cut / Support Bar / Length / Depth %

ChairmanOfTheBoard|1394559924|3631807 said:
thanks- all ive seen dont have them- can you please suggest a few?

so here's the next issue i have- its kinda stated above- i go to a reputable jeweler, and i find a cushion that is great candidate. the price is a bit high for my budget.

so i naturally go back to the online search to do some comparison. and i find stones that have the same exact dimensions (yes, i understand these are #s only!) and yet are a few thousand lower.

therefore, i conclude that these must be a poor cut (despite the rating), and maybe even crushed ice. thats what i think may be driving the price so far down.

fyi- im not just talking a few thousand bucks- i mean 4-5k in some cases. what gives?

any thoughts/guidance on this? id love to hear if that is in fact what you guys think...
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This is not true. Online vendors deal in volume and can "cut out middle men" in order to be able to offer much more competitive prices. Jewelers who are personal friends or "friends of friends" is usually not a great idea if you want the most stone for your money. They have already paid close to the price of what the online jeweler is selling the stones for, then they have to make a decent profit... KWIM?
 
thanks- this is very helpful and exactly what i was asking- HOWEVER-

i understand that online vendors can get lower prices for that reason. but still, that shouldnt result in a 20-25% should it? Or maybe it does? i could understand a thinner margin, but id like to know what you think.
 
ChairmanOfTheBoard|1394565321|3631862 said:
thanks- this is very helpful and exactly what i was asking- HOWEVER-

i understand that online vendors can get lower prices for that reason. but still, that shouldnt result in a 20-25% should it? Or maybe it does? i could understand a thinner margin, but id like to know what you think.
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It depends on how many "hands" the stone has been through and how what percentage profit each of those "hands" has made -- although not always, I think it could definitely reach 20-25% more than online vendors. There are several factors that contribute to the price... for example your jeweler is most likely not the first or second person that must make a profit. Also, his profit is probably higher in order to pay for all the necessities of his storefront (rent, possible employees, utilities, etc... then he's gotta pay himself). I hope that makes sense -- I'm always a little long-winded. :bigsmile:
 
ChairmanOfTheBoard|1394565321|3631862 said:
thanks- this is very helpful and exactly what i was asking- HOWEVER-

i understand that online vendors can get lower prices for that reason. but still, that shouldnt result in a 20-25% should it? Or maybe it does? i could understand a thinner margin, but id like to know what you think.
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You are exactly right -- most online "volume" vendors do operate on slim margins... this is why there isn't much "negotiating room" on the price. :))
 
thanks again- they can coexist, i see how.

for a hard example, here's exactly what im seeing:

JEWELER:
http://www.lumeradiamonds.com/diamonds/detail/49800476
1.9ct
VS2
F
L/W 1.15
Depth 65.6
Table 54
Excellent polish
VG sym
no fluor
$18k+

LUMERA:
http://certs.rapnet.com/userfolders/8258/Certs/CU7729.jpg
1.85ct
VS2
F
L/W 1.00
Depth 67.3
Table 60
Excellent polish
VG sym
no fluor
$16k


*Yes, i understand these arent the same exact specs, but its the closest i could find to illustrate the example

*Yes, $2k difference (12.5%) may be taking into account the slight differences in specs AND/OR the fact that one is online and therefore lower priced

perhaps its not 20% in this example, but a significant difference nonetheless...
 
ohh i left out the most important part of my post.

knowing that the one i saw in the storefront was a very very well cut diamond-
and notwithstanding the storefront/online difference, or any other slight differences in specs-
is it possible then that the reason the online stone is $2k less primarily because its a poorly cut diamond? Meaning, possibly its a crushed ice (and a bad one at that)?

thanks again for all your responses!
 
ive done some more independent research on this particular issue and found that another possible reason for this- and yes this brings me back full circle to my original post here- is depth %. looking just at the L/W of each diamond (which, arguably gives you the "face up") ive noticed that the ones that are priced lower but have all the same dimensions actually have a smaller L/W. not the ratio; the actual length/width. therefore, the ones that are the same size have more depth, and more of the carat weight is hidden so to speak under the diamond. speaking generally of course. feel free to disagree...
 
Your links are wrong.

Pricing is usually driven by facet and plot pattern for cushions when all color, clarity and carat are equal.
 
thats odd they work for me...

so then arent we saying the same thing- when all other dimensions are equal, for cushions, the plot/facet can move the price. therefore, if i find similar stones with the #s, and there's a massive difference in price (especially the online one being cheaper- for stones you cannot see) im guessing its because of the plot/facet.
 
Your first link goes to a 2.02 H VVS diamond.

With all else equal, the pricing difference is driven by the plot pattern or if it is from a Canadian mine. The biggest price difference I have seen is due to the plot pattern (often drives how much weight is retained from the rough diamond to the cutting).
 
CharmyPoo|1394721057|3633260 said:
Your first link goes to a 2.02 H VVS diamond.

With all else equal, the pricing difference is driven by the plot pattern or if it is from a Canadian mine. The biggest price difference I have seen is due to the plot pattern (often drives how much weight is retained from the rough diamond to the cutting).
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OP, listen to Charmy -- she knows her sh!t when it comes to diamonds! ...and for the record, crushed ice isn't the same as "poorly cut" or even "inferior cut" -- it's just a more haphazard faceting pattern and a total preference. :))
 
You are right that buying diamonds from drop shippers is risky business when you can't see images of the stone or light performance info. But Good Old Gold is a brick and mortar family-owned jewelry store than happens to also sell on the internet. They specialize in well cut stones of every shape. They happen to have their own line of ideal cut cushions, called August Vintage cushions which many people here have bought. But if you want a generic modern cushion, they absolutely can call some in for you, do the light performance testing, and make a video for you so you can make an informed choice. They do have a nice version of the setting you want as Ame has already posted.

But regardless, they have some great educational videos and here is one on cushions. Please take 30 minutes of your time, and I believe you will be better prepared to choose a stone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM&feature=youtu.be
 
ChairmanOfTheBoard|1394746399|3633486 said:
sorry i dont think my ctrl+c worked... and i had the links reversed.

here is the much cheaper diamond (online): http://certs.rapnet.com/userfolders/8258/Certs/CU7729.jpg

here is the one from the jeweler: https://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=5146444439

yes, C-Poo, so we agree- and thank you.
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There we have it ...

First cheaper diamond is a Cushion Modified Brilliant. I won't be surprised if this one looks like crushed ice.

The second diamond is a 8 thin main Cushion Brilliant. My favorite type and usually more expensive (and extremely hard to find these days).
 
yeah thats what i thought too- and i asked the jeweler on sat and she said the same- dont be surprised if that comes back crushed ice.

the second is the current leader- and its not close- it looks bigger at 1.9 than most i saw in the 2.0-2.3 range because it faces up so well (8 by 7). it doesnt hide its weight in its depth; BUT its also not shallow. its perfect.

she told me its rare, so she agrees with you. she knew before she showed me any diamonds that id choose this one. further, it has very large facets that are sharp- no crushed ice.

also i think i figured out what the mains are (thin or fat) by googling.
 
update- i met with the jeweler about 10 days ago just to check out more similar diamonds. i again keep coming back to the one i want. i just wanted to be sure, and i definitely am now. i will put the order in this wkd, and, im having it sent to jersey to save approximately $1600. its going to her sister in law who is in on the secret. i'll collect the ring, ask the parents, and will then give it to her on april 20th, her birthday.

also the jeweler will give us one free setting in case she doesnt like it. which is entirely possible!
 
Which was the one you wanted?
 
Chairman, good luck in your search. If this is any consolation, I looked at well over a hundred cushions before actually purchasing one with great "specs", but found it to have no personality. (is was an 8-main and I returned it) Ultimately I found a beautiful 4-main that has no "crushed ice" appearance and has a beautifully organized pattern. It does not have the broad flashes that some folks like, me included, but out of all the "modern'' stones we looked at, it spoke to us. My (limited) experience would tell you to see the stone before purchase, but above all, prowl this site and take the advice of the knowledgeable people here. Watch the recommended videos, too. I feel like a diamond scholar in just a few months as a result of those videos. (thanks GOG!) My e-ring is still in the making, and can't wait to see the finished product, but here are the stone specs:

GIA 1.51 H VVS2 4-main cushion brilliant

Depth %:67.10
Table %:54.00
X polish, x symmetry, no flour
L/W/D (mm): 6.89*6.68*4.49
L/W Ratio: 1.03

Next up, (and my new addiction compels me) I will hunt for an antique cut or splurge on an August Vintage cushion from Good Old Gold. Good luck to you!
 
thanks! it seems the specs on that one are strikingly similar to mine, except in one respect- yours is pretty much square, mine is much more rectangular. i have seen it in person a few times. it has the "chunky" cut which i like, and large, broad flashes. no crushed ice. when i can get a better photo of it, ill post it. good luck in your search too.
 
ok- i bought the ring, wired the funds yesterday, and again took photos in its temporary setting but they keep coming out blurry.

when i have it (hopefully 4/12 or so) i will get a better photo and post.
 
so i asked her dad on saturday, got a yes. then i asked her mom, got a yes again.

then on sunday morning, her birthday, i presented her with the ring and she accepted!

we were away for the wkd so i havent had time to get photos up- but ill post soon. thanks everyone for your help.
 
That is great news. Congrats!!!
 
We need pics!!
 
ChairmanOfTheBoard|1398085553|3657056 said:
so i asked her dad on saturday, got a yes. then i asked her mom, got a yes again.

then on sunday morning, her birthday, i presented her with the ring and she accepted!

we were away for the wkd so i havent had time to get photos up- but ill post soon. thanks everyone for your help.
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:appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl: :appl:
 
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