Ragdoll "parents" -- this thread''s for you! Brag and post photos here!

[BigDiamonds]

Aw AG, Ollie wants to be a Dr. too!! What a cutie. Coltrane loves his carrier too, isn''t it funny?

I don''t know why they don''t form bad associations with since they ride in it to vet.

 

[Lynn B]

Oh BD! A NEW RAGGIES BABY!!!! HOW EXCITING!!!
I am soooooooooooo jealous, er, I mean HAPPY for you!

Miles is gorgeous! Just gorgeous!

Oh how FUN! TWO RAGGIE BOYS!!!

I can well understand how upsetting it must have been to see Coltrane be so sad...

but he will come to love and adore his little brother, I am sure of it!!! (And he won't stay mad at you and DH, either!)

Yikes, your breeder sounds like mine!

Only mine is now out of business. And yes, Boo had a heart murmur as a kitten and it scared the ***CRAP*** out of me. THANKFULLY he outgrew it. I hope Miles does, too.

Hey, BD, and any other parents of 100% Raggies... a question for you. Do you have any interest in getting your cat(s) tested to see if they are a carrier of the HCM mutation??? It costs $60 through WSU and can be done as a cheek swab OR a blood test.

Most younger Raggies (like Miles) shouldn't NEED tested because their breeder(s) should have had their parents tested -- BD, do you know if Miles' parents were (tested)? Did you get the results? (Hopefully both HCM negative.) The testing is fairly new, so anyone with Raggies Boo's age and older probably don't know, because the testing became available right about the time we got him.

I am really debating this. It's a chance to find out of your cat carries one or both of the identified mutated genes for HCM. It's scary to think about... but there are advantages to knowing this... it's been discussed at length on Ragdoll Central. I'm wondering what you guys think????

 

[Miranda]

Oh swwwwweet babies! I could not be more in love with these kitties! I say this as I had my own lump on my lap a minute ago! So precious Lynn and Big Diamonds!

Lynn - I haven''t been on RC for a while. I''ll look into this and tell you what I think.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/17/2009 10:15:10 PM
Author: Miranda
Oh swwwwweet babies! I could not be more in love with these kitties! I say this as I had my own lump on my lap a minute ago! So precious Lynn and Big Diamonds!


Lynn - I haven't been on RC for a while. I'll look into this and tell you what I think.

Yes, Miranda, PLEASE DO! I am really interested in this subject.

Here's the link: HCM Testing

At first I was like, "NOOOO! I just don't have it in me to live with this if it's bad news!!!!!" but I'm trying to be more rational about it and I seriously rethinking it. I just have to get to the place in my head where I feel I am ready to handle it no matter what. It's just so scary to me, compounded by Boo's heart murmur when he was younger. And my breeder is out of business so there's no testing either of his parents... so if I want to know, I will have to have it done myself on Boo.

I hope all of our Raggie parents see this and chime in... if not, I may post a new (separate) thread.

Thanks!

Lynn

 

[Miranda]

Date: 7/17/2009 10:25:14 PM
Author: Lynn B

Date: 7/17/2009 10:15:10 PM
Author: Miranda
Oh swwwwweet babies! I could not be more in love with these kitties! I say this as I had my own lump on my lap a minute ago! So precious Lynn and Big Diamonds!


Lynn - I haven''t been on RC for a while. I''ll look into this and tell you what I think.

Yes, Miranda, PLEASE DO! I am really interested in this subject.

Here''s the link: HCM Testing

At first I was like, ''NOOOO! I just don''t have it in me to live with this if it''s bad news!!!!!'' but I''m trying to be more rational about it and I seriously rethinking it. I just have to get to the place in my head where I feel I am ready to handle it no matter what. It''s just so scary to me, compounded by Boo''s heart murmur when he was younger. And my breeder is out of business so there''s no testing either of his parents... so if I want to know, I will have to have it done myself on Boo.

I hope all of our Raggie parents see this and chime in... if not, I may post a new (separate) thread.

Thanks!

Lynn

Hi Lynn! Thanks for the link. I''ve checked with the breeders of the sire and dam. Both of Leo''s parents are negative, thank goodness. I''m not going to have him tested. I''m with you, when I first looked into it I thought no way could I deal with knowing. I''ll be here for hugs whatever you decide!

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/18/2009 6:04:53 PM
Author: Miranda

Date: 7/17/2009 10:25:14 PM

Author: Lynn B

Date: 7/17/2009 10:15:10 PM

Author: Miranda

Oh swwwwweet babies! I could not be more in love with these kitties! I say this as I had my own lump on my lap a minute ago! So precious Lynn and Big Diamonds!



Lynn - I haven't been on RC for a while. I'll look into this and tell you what I think.

Yes, Miranda, PLEASE DO! I am really interested in this subject.


Here's the link: HCM Testing


At first I was like, 'NOOOO! I just don't have it in me to live with this if it's bad news!!!!!' but I'm trying to be more rational about it and I seriously rethinking it. I just have to get to the place in my head where I feel I am ready to handle it no matter what. It's just so scary to me, compounded by Boo's heart murmur when he was younger. And my breeder is out of business so there's no testing either of his parents... so if I want to know, I will have to have it done myself on Boo.


I hope all of our Raggie parents see this and chime in... if not, I may post a new (separate) thread.


Thanks!


Lynn

Hi Lynn! Thanks for the link. I've checked with the breeders of the sire and dam. Both of Leo's parents are negative, thank goodness. I'm not going to have him tested. I'm with you, when I first looked into it I thought no way could I deal with knowing. I'll be here for hugs whatever you decide!

Miranda,
Thanks for the supportive note. I appreciate it. xoxoxo!
If both parents test negative then their offspring will also be negative; as someone told me on RC, a cat can't pass on what they don't have!
But I need to ask.. how old is Leo? I thought he was a little older than Boo? DNA testing has only been available since mid-2007. Although perhaps Leo's parents have been tested more recently? (In the months/years after he was born? That would seem to make more sense. ???) Or did they claim to have the DNA info when you first GOT him?
Thanks!
Lynn

 

[Miranda]

Lynn - You''re right. Leo is older than Boo. He turned 3 yesterday. His parents have both been tested more recently - that was my impression, anyway. When we got him the only mention of HCM was in the health guarantee.

 

[BigDiamonds]

Hi everyone!

Lynn, thanks for the link. I haven''t been over to RC in a while. I do believe that both of Miles''s parents are tested negative, but I''ll have to confirm. I was so infatuated with him when I picked him up and what she was telling me didn''t really register. But I think she was telling me that both his parents were negative and she had never had any kittens with it either.

I''m not sure about Coltrane. I''ll have to email his breeder. If she hasn''t had his parents tested I''ll probably have him tested right away. My first instinct is that I want to know so that I can be on the lookout for early warning signs. It would be heartbreaking to get a positive result though.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/18/2009 10:44:25 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Hi everyone!

Lynn, thanks for the link. I haven't been over to RC in a while. I do believe that both of Miles's parents are tested negative, but I'll have to confirm. I was so infatuated with him when I picked him up and what she was telling me didn't really register. But I think she was telling me that both his parents were negative and she had never had any kittens with it either.

I'm not sure about Coltrane. I'll have to email his breeder. If she hasn't had his parents tested I'll probably have him tested right away. My first instinct is that I want to know so that I can be on the lookout for early warning signs. It would be heartbreaking to get a positive result though.

Thanks, BD.

Oh, I would give anything to know the status of Boo's parents, but that info just isn't available to me... neither of his parents were ever tested, and now they have both been retired, fixed and rehomed.

I have decided to have the testing done on Boo; I have ordered the cheek swab kit from WSU. I'm scared to DEATH, though. I didn't think I wanted to know, but I guess I do need to know, because I realize that it's in Boo's best interest for me to know. And that's what's most important.

It has taken me awhile to come around to this, though... mainly because I am just so scared.

And BD, regarding Miles -- if you have ANY reason to believe that your breeder may be any less than 100% scrupulous or reputable, I would ask for copies (proof) of the DNA tests (and results) on his parents. Apparently, some breeders may "fudge" that; and the stakes are too high to not be 100% certain.

Please keep us posted (on Miles and Coltrane). And I will keep you guys posted, too.

 

[AmberGretchen]

OK first of all, BD, Miles is KILLING ME WITH THAT ADORABLENESS

OMG I don''t think he could be ANY CUTER AT ALL

I even had to show his pics to DH at the breakfast table and we both melted together, what a sweet baby

And secondly - Lynn, I think you are making the right decision, 100%. As you say, it is unquestionably in Boo''s best interest to have the information so that on the very *slight* chance it comes back positive, you can look out for early warning signs and get him the best care possible. I can only imagine how scared you must be though - I''ll be thinking of you and sweet Boo and keeping all fingers and paws in my household crossed hard for a negative result.

 

[Lynn B]

Thanks, AG... I really appreciate your kind words.
I am sooooo scared. Irrationally so, I admit! But I can't help it; I love him so much!
I will keep you guys posted.
Thank you all.
xoxoxo
Lynn

 

[BigDiamonds]

Good news on my end! Coltrane''s parents are both tested negative, and Miles''s mom comes from two double-negative parents. I think that means he can''t have it because his mom is not carrier, right?

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/20/2009 6:30:10 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Good news on my end! Coltrane's parents are both tested negative, and Miles's mom comes from two double-negative parents. I think that means he can't have it because his mom is not carrier, right?

BD, that's GREAT news about Coltrane! I am sooooooo happy for you!

Now, regarding Miles, hmmm, I am no expert and I don't know for sure... but I think that the fact that Miles' mother was "double negative" only means that her parents were both negative, so she was, of course (because parents cannot pass on what they do not have) -- which is awesome. But it doesn't tell you anything about Miles' father. and that's half the equation... he could be a carrier and pass the gene on to Miles. Does the breeder not know Miles' father's status?

 

[BigDiamonds]

Hmm...from what she said I thought that it was like a recessive gene, so both parents would have to carry to get a positive kitten. She said "only a double positive (mutant/mutant) comes down with HCM." However, after reading about it more I don''t think that is the case. It looks like even though his mother was normal/normal, his father could be a carrier and Miles could still be up normal/mutant. However, apparently single positive rather than double positive usually results in very mild symptoms late in life, but sometimes results in severe symptoms. Miles''s breeder has not yet tested his father because she breeds him a lot and none of his kittens have ever had any heart problems. She has been going through and testing all of her queens, though. Personally if I were her I would start with the kings since they could potentially affect the most kittens, but what do I know?

I think I have enough info to feel relatively confident in Miles. Nothing is 100%, and even getting a double negative test doesn''t guarantee no heart problems.


Don''t know if this link has been posted elsewhere, but I found it helpful: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/deptsvcgl/Ragdolls.aspx

 

[BigDiamonds]

Date: 7/19/2009 11:31:13 AM
Author: AmberGretchen
OK first of all, BD, Miles is KILLING ME WITH THAT ADORABLENESS

OMG I don''t think he could be ANY CUTER AT ALL

I even had to show his pics to DH at the breakfast table and we both melted together, what a sweet baby

And secondly - Lynn, I think you are making the right decision, 100%. As you say, it is unquestionably in Boo''s best interest to have the information so that on the very *slight* chance it comes back positive, you can look out for early warning signs and get him the best care possible. I can only imagine how scared you must be though - I''ll be thinking of you and sweet Boo and keeping all fingers and paws in my household crossed hard for a negative result.

Thanks AG!

Your post was so cute I had to show DH. He''s such a proud papa.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/20/2009 11:03:15 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Hmm...from what she said I thought that it was like a recessive gene, so both parents would have to carry to get a positive kitten. She said 'only a double positive (mutant/mutant) comes down with HCM.' However, after reading about it more I don't think that is the case. It looks like even though his mother was normal/normal, his father could be a carrier and Miles could still be up normal/mutant. However, apparently single positive rather than double positive usually results in very mild symptoms late in life, but sometimes results in severe symptoms. Miles's breeder has not yet tested his father because she breeds him a lot and none of his kittens have ever had any heart problems. She has been going through and testing all of her queens, though. Personally if I were her I would start with the kings since they could potentially affect the most kittens, but what do I know?

I think I have enough info to feel relatively confident in Miles. Nothing is 100%, and even getting a double negative test doesn't guarantee no heart problems.


Don't know if this link has been posted elsewhere, but I found it helpful: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/deptsvcgl/Ragdolls.aspx

BD,

Yes, you are right and your breeder is not.

It makes me feel uncomfortable when breeders make inaccurate statements about this. Because it means either two things...(1) they are not appropriately educated about this subject, which is critical to responsible breeding or (2) they are trying to hide or cover up something.

And yes, testing his father would be a very wise thing for her to do. A female can only physically reproduce one to two litters per year, whereas a male could literally sire hundreds of offspring!

Have you considered asking her for a copy of Miles' mother's test results? I think I might. (You could simply say "...for your records" so she didn't feel offended, as if you didn't believe her. )

So the only thing you know for sure is that Miles could not be pos/pos, and that's a very good thing. It still leaves an unanswered question, though... but of course that's your decision alone. Maybe you could ask the breeder to let you know when she gets around to testing Miles' father? But depending on the results, honestly, she may not.

I know I am on a tangent,

but this has become a very important topic to me... and will absolutely heavily weight my own next choice of breeder. I won't tolerate any misinformation or "I don't knows". The stakes are just too high!

 

[BigDiamonds]

Lynn,

I completely agree on the breeder. In her case I think she is not fully educated. We had a fairly lengthy conversation on early-age neutering/spaying (Coltrane was already neutered when we got him, Miles is not), and she didn''t really have an opinion on it. She is relatively new to breeding and relies heavily on her mobile vet (she lives in the boonies) for medical information. We had a brief conversation about food and she at least had the basics right (protein as first few ingredients, no corn), but didn''t seem like she had spent much time on it. If you are breeding animals, I would just expect a little more. It''s so hard to choose a breeder, and I thought she was reputable because lots of her kittens have been placed with other catteries, but the whole scene was a little weird.

In any case, I obviously have to educate myself on this issue rather than relying on her. It''s kind of the same as diamonds, when you think about. She''s like the cat equivalent of the Shane Co.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/21/2009 10:28:11 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Lynn,

I completely agree on the breeder. In her case I think she is not fully educated. We had a fairly lengthy conversation on early-age neutering/spaying (Coltrane was already neutered when we got him, Miles is not), and she didn't really have an opinion on it. She is relatively new to breeding and relies heavily on her mobile vet (she lives in the boonies) for medical information. We had a brief conversation about food and she at least had the basics right (protein as first few ingredients, no corn), but didn't seem like she had spent much time on it. If you are breeding animals, I would just expect a little more. It's so hard to choose a breeder, and I thought she was reputable because lots of her kittens have been placed with other catteries, but the whole scene was a little weird.

In any case, I obviously have to educate myself on this issue rather than relying on her. It's kind of the same as diamonds, when you think about. She's like the cat equivalent of the Shane Co.

Haha, loved the analogy! So true, so true! Although I guess the argument could be made that at least with diamonds, it's not (usually, anyway, even with us PS'ers!

) such a potentially serious matter.

Honestly, I think Miles is probably JUST FINE, and I hope my posts haven't alarmed you. At the MOST, he's het/pos, but his "odds" are just as high to be totally negative.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

Boo's test kit came today, so I am planning on doing the swabs tonight and get the package mailed out tomorrow. The waiting will be hard.

 

[omieluv]

OMG, it makes me so sad to hear/read about negative experiences with breeders. I understand that newer breeders will not have all of the answers and make mistakes, however, they should be working closely with their mentor to minimize potentially huge issues. Ignorance just is not a good excuse when things go wrong, IMHO...

Anyways, Miles is very adorable and as stated before, I cannot wait to see him grow into a handsome raggie!

 

[Lynn B]

Well, I got the results of Boo's DNA testing a few days ago.

Unfortunately, he is het/positive, meaning he has one of the two identified HCM mutations.

I was afraid of that.

I have been half sick with grief and worry. I wasn't able to post about it right away... I needed time to assimilate it all, wrap my mind around it... and honestly, get a hold of myself.

So what this means is that at least one of Boo's parents carries at least one mutated gene. It means that he is at higher risk of developing HCM in his lifetime than a cat who tests neg/neg; but he is at lower risk than a cat that tests pos/pos. So our news could have been worse.

I really struggled with this the first few days and was very sad and tearful. I am coming around, though, and starting to be able to make some kind of (reluctant) peace with it.

I realize that "it is what it is", and I cannot change it. I am trying to figure out now how to compartmentalize it... giving it the respect it demands without giving it more worry or apprehension than it deserves. I want to be able to eventually not think about it at all on a daily basis, and just love and appreciate and enjoy Boo every day without undue fear of the future.

For Boo's sake, I cannot afford to be naive about this, but I also cannot be a slave to the "what ifs". I want to be balanced and realistic but for my own sake, I need to to cling to optimism as much as possible -- and the fact is that my sweet Boo may well live a long and healthy life.

I have been in touch with his breeder, and while she is out of business and both his parents have been fixed, they are both still with her! I didn't know that. They are both 8 years old now and still perfectly healthy, no signs of HCM! So that is a VERY GOOD thing for us! I am so happy that I know where his parents are and I can keep in touch with her, and monitor their health. This could be invaluable information for Boo.

Here's a picture of my sweet boy, just taken yesterday.

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Oh Lynn, I just saw your post about Boo. I am so sorry you''re going through all this - but thank goodness that he''s not pos/pos. And it is GREAT news that his parents are still healthy and doing well. Hang in there and I''m sending you dust that Boo will continue to remain healthy and live a long, long life!

 

[Lynn B]

Awww, thanks B.E.G... and we all well know there''s lots of POWER in that PS dust!!!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Oh Lynn, I''m so incredibly sorry to hear about sweet Boo''s test results. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you to cope with - the anxiety would just be horrible. I think its so wonderful that you are trying to balance a reasonable level of caution with enjoying sweet Boo to the very fullest each and every day - I''m sure he wouldn''t want you to be so anxious and worried that you couldn''t do that, no matter what.

I found a very hopeful clause in the original article where they identified the mutation in Ragdolls - it suggests that there is usually an earlier development of symptoms in the Ragdoll form (15 months), which means that since Boo is well past that average age and doesn''t have signs of disease, that could be a very promising sign. Here is the relevant section:

"The Ragdoll cat has also been reported to have a breed-specific form of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Some studies suggest a unique early onset form of the disease, with affected cats having an average age of diagnosis of 15 months compared to the reported age of diagnosis of 5–7 years for the general feline hypertrophic cardiomyopathy population [9] and [12]."

Additionally, although the differences were not significantly significant (due to small sample size, I think), it looks like there is a trend towards earlier diagnosis, which seems to correlate with more severe disease, in homozygous vs. heterozygous Ragdolls. Again, this bodes well for Mr. Boo since he is older but has shown no symptoms and hasn''t been diagnosed with disease.

Here is a link to the original article, in case you haven''t seen it.

Also, they haven''t done the large-scale studies in Ragdolls that I can determine, but a large-scale study of the effects of being a het for the equivalent Maine Coon mutation yielded promising results - I can''t access the full article, but here is the abstract, with a summary of the results. Basically, it says that although there is some evidence of impairment in some of the heterozygous cats, their odds are not really that high (about 11%), and even cats that are totally clean genetically had about a 5% chance of showing symptoms.

Anyway, I know that''s all very technical, but I figured that could be my contribution to this thread, as the scientist. I hope that it provides some comfort, though I know there really isn''t much to be had.

Please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you in my household - I''ll be sending the strongest of possible PS dust and all my love and good thoughts towards Boo and you, and so will my DH and our resident felines. HUGE HUGS.

 

[BigDiamonds]

Oh Lynn, I''m so sorry to hear about Boo''s results!

You''re right though - it could be a lot worse. FWIW, I think your strategy is right on - give it the respect it warrants, but don''t waste any more worry or energy than it deserves! Realistically, this probably means that you''re just going to keep a close eye on his health as he gets older, which I''m sure you would have been doing anyway.

Not to get too philosophical about it, but there are so many things that can go wrong in an animal''s lifetime. It''s great to know which things are more likely so that you can be on the lookout, but there are just no guarantees. I really hope that all that comes out of Boo''s het/pos results is that he gets a little more love for a while!

 

[Lynn B]

AG,
Thank you soooo much for the post and the links. VERY helpful information. I felt so much better (and more optimistic) after reading those articles. Thank you.

And B.E.G,
Yes, you are right... no life comes with any guarantees... that was a good reminder. Thank you. So there''s really no point in my getting TOO wrapped up in this. I could fixate so much on the possible future that I miss some of the valuable *present*, and that would be a shame.

Thank you all for your ongoing care and support, both for Boo and me.

xoxoxo
Lynn

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

Date: 8/3/2009 5:42:27 PM
Author: Lynn B
AG,

Thank you soooo much for the post and the links. VERY helpful information. I felt so much better (and more optimistic) after reading those articles. Thank you.


And B.E.G,

Yes, you are right... no life comes with any guarantees... that was a good reminder. Thank you. So there''s really no point in my getting TOO wrapped up in this. I could fixate so much on the possible future that I miss some of the valuable *present*, and that would be a shame.


Thank you all for your ongoing care and support, both for Boo and me.


xoxoxo

Lynn

Lynn, Boo is definitely in my thoughts. And yes, there''s no guarantees - and for all we know, Boo will be like his parents, and live years and years and years! And that is exactly what I''m praying for, and sending dust for. So hang in there, lady, and give Boo a kiss for me!

 

[sap483]

Hello! Squeaky just went to the groomer''s today and looks so pretty that I thought I''d post his pic. Lynn had invited him a while back to be an honorary ragdoll (he''s a Himalayan), so I hope you don''t mind my posting here

Lynn- I''m so sorry to hear about Boo''s test results. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

BigDiamonds - Miles is so stinkin cute (and so is Coltrane). Is Coltrane enjoying his new brother''s company yet?

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 8/14/2009 5:31:49 PM
Author: sap483
Hello! Squeaky just went to the groomer''s today and looks so pretty that I thought I''d post his pic. Lynn had invited him a while back to be an honorary ragdoll (he''s a Himalayan), so I hope you don''t mind my posting here

Lynn- I''m so sorry to hear about Boo''s test results. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

MYYYYY! Squeaky does look beautiful!!! I''ll bet he smells good, too!!! Yep, he''s a card-carrying member of the Honorary Raggie Club, and we always love to see him!

And thanks for the well wishes about Boo. I wish I could change it, of course... but I can''t... and I keep reminding myself that it could be worse. And the more research I do, the more I am coming to believe that it''s really going to be OK. The odds are definitely in our favor -- big time -- and I am just holding positive thoughts and doing my best to get the best care for him, and take the best care OF him possible. I plan to have my sweet Boo around until he is old, old, old and cranky!!!

And just because I have it... here''s a picture of my sweet and precious boy, just taken yesterday!

 

[Matata]

Date: 8/14/2009 6:13:52 PM
Author: Lynn B
I am just holding positive thoughts and doing my best to get the best care for him, and take the best care OF him possible. I plan to have my sweet Boo around until he is old, old, old and cranky!!!

Sweetest, dearest LynnB .... your heart and his will always remain purrfect because each is so filled with love for the other. That is all that matters. Please give the spoiled brat, err, I mean, the handsome boy, a head bonk from auntie Matata.

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 8/14/2009 6:34:35 PM
Author: Matata

Date: 8/14/2009 6:13:52 PM
Author: Lynn B
I am just holding positive thoughts and doing my best to get the best care for him, and take the best care OF him possible. I plan to have my sweet Boo around until he is old, old, old and cranky!!!

Sweetest, dearest LynnB .... your heart and his will always remain purrfect because each is so filled with love for the other. That is all that matters. Please give the spoiled brat, err, I mean, the handsome boy, a head bonk from auntie Matata.

Awwww, Matata, your post was so sweet... almost made me cry. Thank you.
I really do feel like everything is going to be OK. It just has to be!

xoxoxo
Lynn