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Roe v. Wade.

I have read this thread with horror. It’s unfathomable that in the year 2022 we are having this conversation. I can’t even collect my thoughts to eloquently share my feelings. Bottom line for me is “my body, my choice”. Period. And I have no right to legislate what anyone else can/can’t do with their body. I feel sick inside. I don’t know how to interact in this world where there’s no compassion, respect for differing opinions, etc. I am infuriated and heartbroken.
 
ItsMainelyYou said:
It has always been in every facet, a tiered system. A soft caste.
This is where many of our continued issue comes from. Most want equality across the spectrum, which would be guarantee of at least equal footing to begin with and a minimum standard of life for every citizen. The rest want continued status quo(which benefits their dominance and share of spoils/considerations) and will employ whatever institutionalized tactic to keep it so at the expense of the other.
America as a bastion of freedom/progression is a lie. It has always been a lie. We had an extremely small window in our recent past where profit was, at least to a degree for the lower tier of the dominant caste, shared. It was over quickly and yet that is the fixed crystalline image of our collected self identity. Our false sense of superiority is drilled into us from birth, with self manufactured stories of when we were savior or champion. We are never told of our shortcomings, we are never told to be introspective about it. It is assumed that we are prime, even in our destitution.
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This hits closer to home than you could ever know @ItsMainelyYou. I read it yesterday but I haven’t been able to say anything until this evening.

My parents are first generation immigrants to America. Both grew up in India. My dad travelled the world - followed job after job after job, whenever and wherever work took him. He had one goal, the same single goal he’d had from childhood: He would come to the United States. The land of opportunity, the land of the free, the land where honest hard work would get you and your family the life you wanted them to have. Things not possible in India, with caste quotas and rampant corruption. And my mother followed him around the world, sacrificing her own stability and career to basically single parent me. Because she too wanted her family to have opportunities she’d never had, and she too believed America was the place that could happen.

People really do dream about America. Not just Americans - there are so many people in so many corners of the globe who really do believe this is a great country, and who dream of coming here one day. It’s no exaggeration.

And race riots, gun violence, public health crises, assaults on freedoms of belief and body - this is how America is choosing to reward those millions of people’s dreams and trust and inspiration?? This is what my parents sacrificed spending half their lives with family and friends for? Heck, they even sacrificed spending early married life with each other to get here!! My parents bloody well deserve better.

Just another reason to be angry. F this sh*t.
 
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So many have eloquently spoken to the outrage, the illogic of the draft ruling, and the horrifying implications of that logic if (when?) applied to many other rights we take for granted. I can’t begin to express the pain and outrage I feel.

I’m adding a data point as someone who used to work for Planned Parenthood. Plan B/morning after pills, as many of you know, are NOT an abortifacients. They prevent implantation of sperm/fertilization of the egg if taken up to 48 hours after sex. Please inform others of this.

Currently, it is something that you can buy OTC at drugstores or pharmacies. It does not matter your age or gender. Stock up and/or share.
 
A dream, is what it is. A dream of an idea. A story we tell ourselves, the story we tell the world. It's the story we tell our children. I've been reeling a bit myself and it's found me introspective and a bit scattered. I was thinking about what this could mean for our children and that sent me on a tangent to my own childhood and there it made me wonder; what must it be like for each educator/caregiver/parent to tell children they can be anything they want, anything at all, that they are free, when they know for many the likelihood is so small as to be vanishing and the deck is stacked. Saying it anyway, year after year, because they harbor the desperate hope we all do, that some of them might 'make good'. That we might make it not a lie this time.

Just the agony of it. The perfect clarity.

I'm curious if this will finally be the thing that brings perfect clarity to our nation but this time we have some agency, so we won't be helpless and we won't have to lie about the story we tell. To tell the story as it actually is and then actually do something about it.
Anyway, it's just something I had rattling around.
Your parents bloody do deserve better. You deserve better. I deserve better. We all do. America deserves better and to tell our story true.
 
ItsMainelyYou said:
A dream, is what it is. A dream of an idea. A story we tell ourselves, the story we tell the world. It's the story we tell our children. I've been reeling a bit myself and it's found me introspective and a bit scattered. I was thinking about what this could mean for our children and that sent me on a tangent to my own childhood and there it made me wonder; what must it be like for each educator/caregiver/parent to tell children they can be anything they want, anything at all, that they are free, when they know for many the likelihood is so small as to be vanishing and the deck is stacked. Saying it anyway, year after year, because they harbor the desperate hope we all do, that some of them might 'make good'. That we might make it not a lie this time.

Just the agony of it. The perfect clarity.

I'm curious if this will finally be the thing that brings perfect clarity to our nation but this time we have some agency, so we won't be helpless and we won't have to lie about the story we tell. To tell the story as it actually is and then actually do something about it.
Anyway, it's just something I had rattling around.
Your parents bloody do deserve better. You deserve better. I deserve better. We all do. America deserves better and to tell our story true.
Click to expand...

You know what though? I can’t seem to stop thinking about this. I honestly have no idea why my parents’ stance on abortion is. But if I discovered that they were pro-birth - I won’t deign to call it “pro-life”, it’s not - I truly wouldn’t be surprised. I’m genuinely happier not knowing. I would like to think they wouldn’t be.

My family contains some of the most bigoted, xenophobic, racist, misogynistic, and intolerant people you’ve ever met. The American caste system’s got nothing on India’s, and that’s just one example - the “othering” takes many more forms. And it’s not just my family - I’ll just go ahead and state that it’s endemic. My parents aren’t exceptions to this - they’re not the worst by any means, but…

It bothers them no end that I don’t default to respecting my elders and submitting to authority figures. Those are the Indian cultural norms, even now. But I wasn’t raised in India. I was raised in the Commonwealth where questioning and exploring is encouraged. My dad is constantly reminding me that politics doesn’t belong at the office, don’t get involved, keep your head down and do your work - model minority personified. And he’d be *right* in a lot of corporate cultures. But not mine. I wouldn’t want to work at a place where my whole team wasn’t just as outraged by this and just as vocal about it as me, women and men alike!!

So here I am, still furious at the US’s slights against my version of my parents’ dream, and at the same time acknowledging that this particular issue might just be something they’re perfectly happy with and that we see completely eye to arse on. Kind of ridiculous, I know. But, I guess, for every time I’ve wondered how it’s possible to hold two competing truths and feel equally strongly about both, here’s my own personal example?

I don’t know what my point was really. I just needed to say that. My parents sacrificed so much to get here, I understand so much more as an adult. And they’ve done well for themselves, and I certainly benefitted. It’s not wrong to be angry about losing my vision of their dream, even if it’s not theirs. I can’t see the Asian model minority engaging on this issue. Too icky. I actually kind of feel like when my nephew threw a tantrum in the frozen chicken aisle - America, you are so getting the time out corner when we get home!
 
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I do want to add one thing. Might ruffle some feathers but I feel too strongly to not say it:

A lot of abortion advocacy says something like “the decision to terminate isn’t easy, don’t make it harder than it already is”.

For some women the decision to end a pregnancy is difficult. But other women might agonize over an unwanted pregnancy about as much as they would a tapeworm.

It’s none of my business. Whether you struggle with the decision to terminate or you feel nothing but relief about it - I will support your right to do whatever you and your family and your doctor think best. No guilt needed for lack of angst.

It’s just so ridiculous. How much effort is that second woman going to put into her prenatal care? And once the baby’s out, after she’s been emotionally and physically and financially traumatized for nine months, why would anyone imagine she’d suddenly feel differently? And if that baby isn’t perfectly healthy, blonde, and blue eyed, what are its realistic odds of an adoption Happily Ever After? :rolleyes:

Gah. :angryfire:
 
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As a person who made up her mind about not having children when I was 18, and it was one of the best decision I have ever made, and had taken all the precautions available to me to ensure I did not get pregnant by accident, I had also made up my mind what I would do in the event I did get pregnant.

I will not be judged by anyone except my maker.

DK :))
 
For all the states that restrict access to abortion should Roe vs Wade be rescinded, we should also be seeing an increase in penalties for those fathers who fail to provide child support. If you want to force a woman into a pregnancy and motherhood in general, you had best be providing, AT LEAST, hard financial support from the other person who was in the room at the time that baby was conceived. And harsher penalties for rapists - and I mean 'lock up and throw away the key while taking all their earthly possessions and selling them and giving the proceeds to your victim' kinds of penalties. And much harsher penalties for those who propagate incest. By which I mean cutting off their balls. Because as a court, if you don't, you've simply given yourself away. You have been caught with your political pants down, and you've made a mockery of the Supreme Court and the 'justice' it purports to espouse.

*sigh*

I came to this country 20 years ago. So that makes me an immigrant, I suppose, tho my husband was asked to come here, as he was a leading expert at that time in an area where the US was largely devoid of experts. We didn't ask to come - we were *asked* to come. We thought - "Sure - why not?" - and we came. 9 years ago I took US citizenship, while retaining my Australian citizenship. And I took it proudly. I was SO thrilled. I had developed a bond with this country and a love for its people that I had never expected and, after being here a decade, I felt that it was either time to commit or leave. But I committed - freely and gladly.

Yet since then, my choice has closed in on me like four walls. In less than a decade, I've watched a level of extremism develop that is abhorrent and appalling to me. The potential overthrow of a woman's right to choose segues seamlessly, in my mind, from the BLM movement - and all those other movements protesting against the systematic, unchecked intention of those with power to impose their will on those with less power. We are not a country that is pro baby - or even pro birth. We are a country that is PRO POWER. We have a country where those with power enjoy putting their boot on the head of those less fortunate and watching them cry for mercy as the life is beaten out of them. We have become the UGLY country. I am the person who got into bed, metaphorically speaking, with the person who turned out to be my would-be rapist.

The evening before I became a US citizen, I wrote a small love letter to the America. I'd like to share it with you. It is a deep grief to me that I wonder how much of it I would say today. I speak more these days of "Going home" - by which I mean, to Australia. My greatest fear is that the land of my birth will follow the land of my choice in its behaviors, at which point I will truly be, ideologically speaking, without country.


On the Eve of Citizenship

Well, America, here we are.

It’s the night before I choose you for all time, and you adopt me as your child. And I wanted to spend this evening writing you a love letter, or at the very least, telling you why we ended up here.

You arrived at this point – offering me a permanent welcome – because you are a gracious, welcoming, willing host, large enough for people of all nations, and unafraid enough to keep your borders open. And your children reflect you. As a parent, you have bred a people confident and non-defensive, willing to take others at face value. As with all large families, you have your black sheep, those who have rejected your principles and whose hearts are stingey and afraid of any and all who are not exactly like them. But despite these few, you have steered your ship and held it upright through storms of change, and never lost sight of your overall principles of freedom and welcome and care for all your children, both born here and adopted. You are the parent a child is proud to acknowledge; the one we want to take to ‘Introduce Your Parent’ day. Despite the snide cynicism of some around the world, you have remained kind where others have been cruel, positive where others have been negative, open where many have been closed, and moral where so many have lost their way.

And I am proud of you and proud to call you mine. I will never be less an Australian, and we both know that. But you have been mature in your understanding of the global village in which we live, and generous in your willingness to allow people like me to be truly and fully themselves – half of this, half of that - with a love for more than one homeland. Where others have demanded a possessive love, you have been bold and brave enough to say – “We know you love us, even if we are not your first love.” And I thank you for that, because it opens the door for me to love you also.

So you came to me in greatness and kindness, in warmth and morality, in consistency of ethics which reflect the principles in reality that you claim to hold in concept.

As for me, I stumbled to America through chance. Via a three year stay in England - which I enjoyed but never, ever tempted me to call her home despite our cultural and historical closeness - I jumped the pond and landed in New York and have been confident in my choice every day since. I do not believe New York is the best city in the world. But I believe it is the most exciting, and I love the character and the diversity and sheer pace of this city. I love its brashness, its abrupt yet open-handed nature which will cause complete strangers to swear at you if you block their way on the sidewalk for even a second, but walk you to your destination should you look lost for that same second. In my heart, I became a New Yorker before I ever became an American. New York gave me somewhere to land, where I was nobody special, where the focus was not on me, where I could inch my way out, sticking my nose through the door as I felt ready, but always leaving me a way out, should the relationship crash or the shine wear off. And New York, it never did.

And most of all, it was a gateway to the rest of the nation. I think it was the differences that won me in the end. I am not a fan of the materialism here that I see. But neither are a lot of people, and there is room for me to disagree with the choices of others. I am a politically liberal, social justice junkie who is religiously conservative, argues endlessly for gun control and the preservation of our earth, while resisting – sometimes by the thinnest of threads – the urge to force-feed my conservative morality down the throats of others. This doesn’t make me easy to get along with for some – but America is large enough to provide for me a peer group, a support network, and a pool of like-minded individuals with whom to identify. I will never truly understand your sense of humor. A whole bunch of stuff that leaves born-here Americans rolling in the aisles simply leaves me thinking “What did I miss?” And, frankly, it’s unlikely that most of you will ever get my Australian sense of humor either. But this is true for millions of others also, and so there is room in this massive multicultural American pool for me when it comes to what makes me laugh. I want to change your health care but preserve your churches, scream against fracking and animal abuse, while supporting with my last breath the right to free speech and democracy for all. I believe absolutely in a woman’s right to choose, yet equally utterly in the rights of every child. And I am painful at parties when it comes to women’s rights and the inequality of the genders that exists both here in the US, and in the world at large. But here I find like-minded souls, kindred spirits, people with whom to discuss each and every one of these issues– thoughtfully, respectfully, and freely. And the point is that I don’t have to conform to all of the standards of any group in this country to earn a right to be here. In a country that encourages individuality and makes room for us all, I am right at home.

So in America, I found myself - parts of myself previously undiscovered, or whispered quietly when no one was listening. In America, I found my voice of dissent – far more than I ever had – and in defining what I did not believe, I discovered what I held dear. In some ways, America shaped me. But in other ways, America allowed me to discover the shape I always was.

And so at a time when goodness and evil fight for supremacy on the world stage, I will place my lot with America the brave, America the good, America the kind, and America the moral, and be a voice for all in you that is best, and all that I hold dear.

And that is why I am here. And that is why I will become an American. Thank you for the offer, United States of America. Duly accepted.

*************************************************************************

I am not giving up on the land that I love or the world in general. The fight will be won by those prepared to fight without ceasing. That had best be us, lest the screams of extremism drown out the voices of reason and love.
 
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Let me start by saying I volunteer as an abortion clinic escort. To those of us who are in the reproductive justice sphere, this decision was not a shocker. Conservatives have been vocal about their goals and agenda for some time now.

I escort patients into the clinic, past screaming protesters. Despite what you may think, no patient with whom I have spoken is there lightly. Often they are there because we have created an economic reality in which they simply *cannot* afford to bear another child. Often they come with spouses and children who wait for them.

The draft opinion of the court, if it does not change, makes it clear that other rights which are protected as privacy rights are in danger. This would include the court’s ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut, which protected the right to birth control. Some in the conservative sphere also (falsely) believe that certain forms of birth control (specifically IUDs and birth control pills) are abortifacients. Those in reproductive justice expect that to be their next push—to ban those forms of birth control. If you are of child bearing age and do not want to bear a child, it is worth thinking about long term birth control sooner rather than later.

One in four women will have an abortion in her lifetime. If you think you don’t know any women who have had to make that choice, I encourage you to sit with the idea that your not knowing doesn’t mean it didn’t happen for people in your circle.

Abortion will not stop because Roe is overturned. Access to *safe* abortion will end and people will die from risky underground procedures, just as they did the last time it was illegal.

Finally, some unpleasant reminders.

Pregnancy carries substantial health risks, and it is becoming more dangerous in the United States. In 2020 in the US, 861 people died of maternal causes. That is an increase from the prior year. Yes, in the US it is becoming *more* dangerous to carry and birth a child. This, by the way, does not even begin to scratch the surface of different mortality rates for women of color in the US, who stand a significantly HIGHER risk of dying than white mothers.

We also need to acknowledge that in the world we have created, rape is shockingly common:

—1 in 5 women experience attempted or completed rape during their lifetimes.
—1 in 3 female rape victims experience it for the first time between the ages of 11-17 years old.
—1 in 8 female rape victims reported that it occurred before age 10.
Statistics from https://www.cdc.gov/injury/features/sexual-violence/index.html

Oh, one last thing, because I’m seeing a lot of the “stock up on Plan B” message. Please know that Plan B has a weight limit of 155 lbs. If you are over that, you will need Ella, the prescription version. Ella is most effective until 195 lbs. Beyond that, the recommended emergency contraceptive method is a copper IUD.
 
Veep said it best. If men got pregnant, you could get an abortion at an ATM.
 
Alito’s draft opinion of, ”once again allow each state to regulate abortion as it’s citizens wish“, is likely to go much further. With the Republicans poised to win both houses, and if a Republican is elected president in 2024, they will have the power to eradicate abortion in every corner of America. Land of the free?
 
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TooPatient said:
I expect most states will have protection in place before this is officially done. The way it was put in place is what I see as an opening to dangerous precident. I think it is important for each state to have the protection in place and not lean on the federal government as something to point to when people try to stop those rights. That has happened too much. There is too much pointing at federal level just so politicians can have their policies and claim to voters that they would do it differently if allowed. That shouldn't be happening. (For the, I expect very rare, states that don't put protections in place before it is written, I suspect a lot of people will contribute to get help for those who need it AND will get people serious about making changes to the leadership within the state.)
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I'm sorry, that's like saying civil rights should be decided at the state level. So for example degregation is legal in some states and not in others. Deciding things at the state level did not work for civil rights. It doesn't work for abortion rights either, esp as many states are drafting laws to outlaw, criminalize or allow random people to sue you if you help from another state. Some of the profoundly disturbing thoughts on my mind, is that some of the laws being put into place, is giving people strong financial incentive to: invade women's personal private health information. To sabotage birth control and then report the unintended pregnancy. And really, to force unwanted unprotected sex on females, and then report and collect $$ for doing so. Because rape has an extremely low conviction rate, and there are no fines, criminal consequences for the male involved in the pregnancy (only the female). Also, females are at increased risk of domestic violence if they get pregnant. Set aside uncontrolled bleeding after childbirth, infection, and eclampsia, the number one cause of death for pregnant women? Homicide. Not allow females to have abortions of unwanted pregnancies is going to kill women, teens, children who become pregnant in these situations.
 
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partgypsy said:
I'm sorry, that's like saying civil rights should be decided at the state level. So for example degregation is legal in some states and not in others. Deciding things at the state level did not work for civil rights. It doesn't work for abortion rights either, esp as many states are drafting laws to outlaw, criminalize or allow random people to sue you if you help from another state.
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Totally agree. Why are my rights as a person who happens to identify as a woman subject to the whims of whomever is in government?? This means in one state I could be a second class citizen and another recognized as an equal citizen? F&$* that!!!! That is not the America that I believe in and frankly not the American dream that I think most of us have in our minds and hearts.

The gap between the haves and have nots has only increased in this country and chipping away at reproductive rights only increases that gap to the detriment of all of us, to our country as a whole.
 
We all are shaped by our experiences. The last few days have been extremely hard for many woman. I have always believed that abortion is a woman’s choice and it’s no ones business if a woman decides this is the best choice for her. It’s her choice PERIOD.

I was violently raped when I was young. It was one of the worst experiences of my life and one that still haunts me to this day. Had I gotten pregnant and was forced to have this monster’s child, I would have committed suicide. Reading Jean Schmidt’s comments last night had me in tears.

33% of all women who are raped contemplate suicide.
13% of all women who are raped commit suicide.

With the amount of rapes committed in this country on a yearly basis and the small fraction of men who go to prison for committing this crime, making no exception for rape and incest is unconscionable. I’ve yet to hear what stronger, stricter laws are going to be put in place for rapists. The good ole boy club is alive and well in America.

Thank you @Tonks for volunteering your time to help woman seeking an abortion.

I am disgusted by the fact that all women are being treated like second class citizens in this country. We are not a feee country. We have people actively trying to take away the right to make decisions regarding our own bodies.
 
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Echoing everyone’s sentiments here and equally outraged by the blatant disregard for women’s rights as human rights. This latest move by the last standing respectEd and supposedly independent institution is just the tip of the iceberg and a harbinger of an activist court that seeks to oppress basic human rights. The ink on the Roe v Wade opinion is not even dry yet, and here, we have the beginning of an onslaught on not just our right to decide what to do with our bodies but our right to an education. Who knows- maybe Loving v Virginia will be next. It’s hard to feel optimistic about the direction of this country. I’m beyond angry…I’m both afraid and sad about where this is all headed. No longer the land of the free…or has it ever been really?

apple.news

Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids — USA TODAY

The comments came after a leaked draft U.S. Supreme Court opinion revealed that a majority of justices were considering overturning Roe v. Wade.
apple.news apple.news
 
And it’s infuriating that what the states banning abortion want is for folks to object to leave the state, which will only solidify their power to pass through more laws discriminating against more things like lgbtq, contraception, and education rights to make life even harder for the folk who don’t have the means to leave the state AND consolidate these states to be red bastions in elections where the electoral collage gets to pick the president and not the popular vote. Aaaarreregggghhhgg
 
Some states would severely restrict of abortion, if not ban it, if Roe v. Wade is overturned. People in some states would be living as second class citizens, unequal according to their state laws. I don’t understand why the Supreme Court is unable to declare Medical autonomy a universal Constitutional right. Medical autonomy (absolute ownership of one’s body, absolute freedom to choose or reject medical procedures) goes far beyond reproductive health. The labeling of the abortion rights as a female issue or a reproductive rights issue is a smokescreen: this is not a niche concept. The government thinks it has the RIGHT to force its way into our personal medical lives. I do not believe even the States should be able to create a system of haves and have nots (living under medical laws established by often transient state level politicians no less!). We need the Supreme Court to establish bodily/medical autonomy as a Constitutional right.
 
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I want to scream each time I hear someone state: If women don't want children they shouldn't have sex. If women don't want children, they should use birth control. Please, all women of child bearing years across this nation, stop having sex with men unless Roe v Wade is codified. Hoist the nutters on their own petards.
 
Hi,

That slippery slope of yore has excitably come to Louisanna. The House will debate a new bill coming out of committee that will criminalize abortion to the extent the women will be prosecuted for murder. It is hard to imagine the SC decision isn't even final and legislatures are gearing up to convict us for murder.

We can't allow laws like this to exist. We may have to become lawless. Justice Alito used a citation from English law that uses a case against abortion that also punishes witches with the death penalty. He actually used a citation that includes witches to be put to death.

Look how fast they got a non-climbable fence erected around the SC.

Some of you are so elegant in what you have said. Calliecakes, I am so sorry for what you endured at such a young age.

Annette
 
maita13 said:
Echoing everyone’s sentiments here and equally outraged by the blatant disregard for women’s rights as human rights. This latest move by the last standing respectEd and supposedly independent institution is just the tip of the iceberg and a harbinger of an activist court that seeks to oppress basic human rights. The ink on the Roe v Wade opinion is not even dry yet, and here, we have the beginning of an onslaught on not just our right to decide what to do with our bodies but our right to an education. Who knows- maybe Loving v Virginia will be next. It’s hard to feel optimistic about the direction of this country. I’m beyond angry…I’m both afraid and sad about where this is all headed. No longer the land of the free…or has it ever been really?

apple.news

Abbott says Texas could 'resurrect' SCOTUS case requiring states to educate all kids — USA TODAY

The comments came after a leaked draft U.S. Supreme Court opinion revealed that a majority of justices were considering overturning Roe v. Wade.
apple.news apple.news
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Yep, just the tip of the ice berg and the opinion hasn't even been issued yet. By the time it is (I think they expect it about 8 weeks) who knows which other governors will have come up with more bright ideas to limit or eliminate human rights. I'm frightened.
 
Oh @smitcompton, That fence around the Supreme Court building went up immediately. Did you see this ruling coming? I thought there was a very strong chance this would happen and am surprised at how stunned I was when it did. Do you think this will finally wake young women up?
 
I’m so sorry @Calliecake. :(sad

I’m surprised too. I heard people warn of it, but somehow I’m still… Surprised.
 
I was watching a news infotainment program and it was already floated by a man on that show that pregnant women shouldn't be hired for important jobs. It took what, 48 hours? The forward progress, that we haven't even yet achieved in equality and equal pay would disappear. Not long ago women needed a man's permission, and was told to provide it, to have access to their own money because that money wasn't theirs, it was their husbands. And if no husband, father. How long until women won't be able to be unescorted as their value as precious earthen vessels cannot be assailed by other men? No longer able to hold property? Custody of children? Vote?

And what of other groups whose rights are even newer than our own, because it isn't part of archaic doctrine?

It would not be alarmist to postulate that this means the end of even the pretense of America once the National Religion is fully codified and enshrined. Which, and make no mistake, is the ultimate goal. A major founding principle of the country was that there would never BE a national religion. That was the point.

I am not surprised by it in the least.
 
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@yssie, I figured it would be political suicide considering way more than half the country was against it and for that reason didn’t worry too much about it. Was I wrong.

I would like to see perjury charges brought up against Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett for lying during confirmation hearings.
 
ItsMainelyYou said:
It would not be alarmist to postulate that this means the end of even the pretense of America once the National Religion is fully codified and enshrined. Which, and make no mistake, is the ultimate goal. A major founding principle if the country was that there would never BE a national religion. That was the point.
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"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb​

renderTimingPixel.png

If we women do not exercise our power to make change, we'll suffer the consequences of our complacency.
 
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