The deadline has come and gone

[Sharon101]

Hi Girls, I agree that `accidentally` falling pg. is sneaky and not a good idea for everyone, but it depends on the circumstances. I really understand that it may not be a choice for some here as you would rather complete honesty with your partner etc.

Im not here to argue for or against any path of action involving having children. I am not giving advice that I didnt follow myself and I never looked back for one tiny second. But my experience may not be for everyone, but it worked wonderfully for me, my husband, and my other 2 children.

My set of circumstances may be unique, but I just knew my dh would come around and he did. We could afford a third and no one had any hardship over the extra child in the family. My dh has been with me since childhood and I guess I gambled correctly...if that is a correct word. ie that I took a gamble.

I think that some here are failing to take in that the OP`s partner left the door open, he didnt say no. Why didnt he say `no`? Why do you think he didnt make a non negotiable statement? To me that means he doesnt want to say the words `yes`, but if it happened he would not be that upset to leave or be angry. I feel like he possibly feels guilty if he has more children, and thus would want the decision to not be his. I feel that Im interpreting the situation correctly because the partner did not say `under no circumstanses will I have more children`.....instead he said....I dont really want more....but...if it meant loosing you I would reconsider. That to me equals a yes, but I dont want to say yes because it is something I cant fully comprehend.

I also think the OP`s partner knows he is with a wonderful lady who is great with his own children and himself and he would be mad to let that go. Deep down he knows its not fair to not let the OP experience having her own child in the same way that he has experienced it. I think deep down he knows it is asking alot of her.

Anyway, in many relationships more or less children are had as a compromise. Some of my friends had the extra one to please their husbands even though they could have stopped where they were. Other times babies came as a surprise, some probably real accidents, others not. I dont think its black and white. And I know in broken familiers it can get really complicated, but not impossible. I knew many second marriages with new children that seem to integrate well with the first children.

I also dont think the advice to get pg. when you are already married is the same as getting pg. to force a marriage. This is 2 adults who love each other getting married. There is no evidence to me that says this guy will not love or look after the new child as he does seem to be a good father by nature. He might be apprehensive about the prospect of having more kids, but he has not said `No way`. So I interpret this positively. Of course I am basing this on limited info. from what has been posted.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 3/7/2009 7:49:06 PM
Author: Sharon101
Hi Girls, I agree that `accidentally` falling pg. is sneaky and not a good idea for everyone.

It's not a good idea for "everyone"? Sorry, under no circumstances is it okay to deceive your partner into having a child when he/she does not want one. It is not a good idea for anyone.
It's great that having that 3rd child worked for you, but I'm assuming that your three children are from the same marriage?
SPs partner has children from another marriage, already school-aged. It's understandable if he does not want more. It's his RIGHT to not want more. And I certainly wouldn't take "I would reconsider if it meant losing you" to mean that he "wants to say yes, but can't". Guys don't play games like that. Take him at face value. He doesn't want anymore kids, period. And "considering it" doesn't mean he will in the future if SP decides to wait it out another 2 years to see if he changes his mind. That's why I think SHE has to do some soul searching, not throw caution to the wind with birth control.

 

[princesss]

Lucky, thank you for being a voice of reason.

I have nothing else to add, other than that I hope Starset does some soul searching, and whatever she ends up doing, she does honestly.

Big hugs, Starset. Lots of big hugs.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 3/7/2009 9:15:22 PM
Author: princesss
Lucky, thank you for being a voice of reason.

I have nothing else to add, other than that I hope Starset does some soul searching, and whatever she ends up doing, she does honestly.

Big hugs, Starset. Lots of big hugs.

I know I've participated in taking this thread off track, but I wanted to restate that I don't believe, from what I know of Starset through PS, that deceit would even been an option in her case. My response was a general one, because many people other than Starset are reading this and I couldn't stop myself from sharing how disappointed I was that anyone would suggest that one person do something so dishonest to their partner, in hope that no one would read this and feel it was acceptable to do such a horrific thing. There's a very big difference between two people agreeing that the best thing for them is to allow nature to take course, and one partner conniving another into having unwanted children.

My apologies, Starset, for contributing to your thread running amuck I just couldn't believe such an appalling suggestion could be made, to anyone, in any setting.

Sharon, you are correct, in many relationships more or less children are compromise, as it should be, but when one alters birth control without the other partners' consent that is not compromise, that is simply dishonest and manipulative; and more times than not my guess is the end result is not all sunshine and roses.

 

[princesss]

Date: 3/7/2009 9:45:09 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 3/7/2009 9:15:22 PM

Author: princesss

Lucky, thank you for being a voice of reason.


I have nothing else to add, other than that I hope Starset does some soul searching, and whatever she ends up doing, she does honestly.


Big hugs, Starset. Lots of big hugs.

I know I''ve participated in taking this thread off track, but I wanted to restate that I don''t believe, from what I know of Starset through PS, that deceit would even been an option in her case. My response was a general one, because many people other than Starset are reading this and I couldn''t stop myself from sharing how disappointed I was that anyone would suggest that one person do something so dishonest to their partner, in hope that no one would read this and feel it was acceptable to do such a horrific thing. There''s a very big difference between two people agreeing that the best thing for them is to allow nature to take course, and one partner conniving another into having unwanted children.


My apologies, Starset, for contributing to your thread running amuck I just couldn''t believe such an appalling suggestion could be made, to anyone, in any setting.


Sharon, you are correct, in many relationships more or less children are compromise, as it should be, but when one alters birth control without the other partners'' consent that is not compromise, that is simply dishonest and manipulative; and more times than not my guess is the end result is not all sunshine and roses.

Gosh, I just reread my response and it came out totally wrong. Thank you, KimberlyH, for replying so I could reread it from somebody else''s perspective.

Please, Starset, know that I did not think you would do this. I was just so disgusted with the idea in general, that my response was worded poorly. Everything I''ve seen of you on here has been honest and honourable. I''m sorry that my response didn''t make that clear.

You''re a strong woman that I admire very much, and I know you will do what is best for yourself. *big hugs*

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 3/7/2009 11:50:00 AM
Author: luckystar112
I can''t believe I just read that.


I have to express my extreme disagreement with Lara and Sharon. Their use of devil emoticons is a good indicator that that isn''t exactly the most moral choice to make.

I am sorry, I have missed the whole debate, which I knew was going to be lively, because the standard these days is basically to assume that women are sterile until a red-carpet invitation is laid out before them regarding fertility. Men, often, find the whole question (in its entirety) beyond them, it is like playing God.

If you read my post closely, you will see that under no circumstances have I suggested deceiving anyone. In my own circumstances, I made it perfectly clear, in both my words and actions, that I was not interested in using artificial contraception.
I took responsibility for that, and for my actions.

My husband couldn''t believe it, made a big joke of it, and played along with me. He knew what was going on. He could have chosen not to ''be with'' me if he chose not to take the risk. He also took responsibility for his actions.

In any case, that it is the to-and-fro of any sexual relationship.
Everyone knows what causes babies, and accidents DO happen, all the time. That is one reason why I think the ''ultimatum'' about ''no children or else'' is in fact an incredibly unfair one, because accidents can and do happen. Sex is how babies take place, and many, many of them are genuine accidents.

But I did not advocate deceiving anyone.
Sex is for grown ups, and all the risks need to be taken for what they are, including falling in love - and having children.

 

[JulieN]

I'm sorry, Starset.

I think you two are both "on the same page," in a fashion: he would reconsider not having kids to be with you, and you would consider not having kids to be with him. I think a successful breakup could/would be difficult in this light.

Anyway, Lara does not have a bad idea... however, I just don't see it being very applicable IRL. Starset doesn't seem to be a woman who wants/does not want children in a vacuum; that is, it seems unlikely that she would want children without her man's support... but, since he is somewhat willing? I don't know.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 3/7/2009 9:45:09 PM
Author: KimberlyH
I know I''ve participated in taking this thread off track, but I wanted to restate that I don''t believe, from what I know of Starset through PS, that deceit would even been an option in her case. My response was a general one, because many people other than Starset are reading this and I couldn''t stop myself from sharing how disappointed I was that anyone would suggest that one person do something so dishonest to their partner, in hope that no one would read this and feel it was acceptable to do such a horrific thing.

A big ditto to this. I didn''t for a second think that Starset would do something like this, although my first post could be perceived as being directed toward her.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 3/7/2009 10:05:14 PM
Author: LaraOnline

I am sorry, I have missed the whole debate, which I knew was going to be lively, because the standard these days is basically to assume that women are sterile until a red-carpet invitation is laid out before them regarding fertility. Men, often, find the whole question (in its entirety) beyond them, it is like playing God.

If you read my post closely, you will see that under no circumstances have I suggested deceiving anyone. In my own circumstances, I made it perfectly clear, in both my words and actions, that I was not interested in using artificial contraception.
I took responsibility for that, and for my actions.

My husband couldn't believe it, made a big joke of it, and played along with me. He knew what was going on. He could have chosen not to 'be with' me if he chose not to take the risk. He also took responsibility for his actions.

In any case, that it is the to-and-fro of any sexual relationship.
Everyone knows what causes babies, and accidents DO happen, all the time. That is one reason why I think the 'ultimatum' about 'no children or else' is in fact an incredibly unfair one, because accidents can and do happen. Sex is how babies take place, and many, many of them are genuine accidents.

But I did not advocate deceiving anyone.
Sex is for grown ups, and all the risks need to be taken for what they are, including falling in love - and having children.

Lara, I did read your post closely, and saw that you started out with "here's my witchiest advice" and ended with "don't flame me". In the middle, you said that she should switch to a lower strength contraceptive method. I may have assumed that you mean deceit there, but to me that's how it read. Only afterward did you mention your own circumstances, which didn't seem to have anything to do with the previous paragraph. I apologize if I took it wrong, but if that's the case I'm not the only one!

I think that the way you handled it with your husband was fine. He was able to make a choice as to whether or not that was okay with him. But in Starset's case, it seemed like you were advocating not giving him a choice in the matter, which I think is wrong. Again, you said you weren't advocating deceit, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 3/7/2009 11:20:14 PM
Author: luckystar112
I''ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

why Lucky! Thank you so much for that!

My post was written with a sense of fun, and, yes, I do think it rather extraordinary that in today''s context, technological advancement has made it ''the norm'' for women to be treated as if they were in fact completely sterile until ''the big decision'' has been made... by the man.

Apparently it is statistically proven that women will defer to men in relation to children, and that in a partnership where one of the couple desires a child (most often the man), and the other does not, the negative partner almost always wins.

We are all in fact inherently self-interested, although some of us, through love, are able to step outside ourselves and see that our own wants and needs are not the be-all and end-all of the universe.

In any case, the ultimatum of ''no children'' is an artificial one, because the nature of the relationship that this man is currently enjoying does leave open the question of children...contraceptive technology or no. Reducing to a slightly lower pill, or reverting to barrier methods is something women do every day, for a variety of reasons. Trapping a man is not really part of the plan.

 

[KimberlyH]

Starset, I hope you are doing okay today.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 3/7/2009 9:57:21 PM
Author: princesss


Thank you, KimberlyH, for replying so I could reread it from somebody else''s perspective.

Prinicess, I wish I had taken my response and started a new thread, elsewhere, about the general discussion being had so as not to interrupt Starset''s thread. I didn''t think you intended anything negative in your response, but I''m happy to have helped, in a round about way.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 3/8/2009 12:06:52 PM
Author: KimberlyH
Starset, I hope you are doing okay today.

Yeah, I do too, fervently. I''m sorry for us hijacking your thread, SP!
I hope you are feeling strong, supported and loved.
All the very best,
L.

 

[LaraOnline]

Ugh, I now have to consolidate my crime by pointing out a typo in the earlier message above - being that usually, it seems that in arguments about children vs no children, generally it is the man who is negative, and the man who generally maintains the upper hand.

I don't really have a problem with any of this, although I do wonder about the psychological state of (some) women who are psychologically pressured into not having children against their own desires. Probably because I myself experienced these 'desires' for children as a massive biological drum beating in my head, it was not at all a pleasant experience!

But I do wish to reiterate my main point, in that it is not a moral imperative for all women to be on water tight artificial contraception at all times... it is not for a man to wave his hand and insist that a woman make herself sterile to accommodate him.

She can choose to be sterile, or she can choose to not be totally sterile (bearing in mind that nature allows for sterile passages within the cycle).

Of course, being a moral person means making a potential partner aware of that choice.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 3/8/2009 11:16:37 AM
Author: LaraOnline

Date: 3/7/2009 11:20:14 PM
Author: luckystar112
I''ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

why Lucky! Thank you so much for that!

My post was written with a sense of fun, and, yes, I do think it rather extraordinary that in today''s context, technological advancement has made it ''the norm'' for women to be treated as if they were in fact completely sterile until ''the big decision'' has been made... by the man.

Apparently it is statistically proven that women will defer to men in relation to children, and that in a partnership where one of the couple desires a child (most often the man), and the other does not, the negative partner almost always wins.

We are all in fact inherently self-interested, although some of us, through love, are able to step outside ourselves and see that our own wants and needs are not the be-all and end-all of the universe.

In any case, the ultimatum of ''no children'' is an artificial one, because the nature of the relationship that this man is currently enjoying does leave open the question of children...contraceptive technology or no. Reducing to a slightly lower pill, or reverting to barrier methods is something women do every day, for a variety of reasons. Trapping a man is not really part of the plan.

I''m not sure I follow you. Technological advancements have made it possible for a woman to walk into a doctor''s office with or without a man (in the partner sense) and leave pregnant. I can see how with married couples it may be more the man''s decision as to whether or not to have a(nother) child, but with many non-married couples it is usually an accident with the woman having the final say.

But, if non-married women defer to men when it comes to how many children they have, whose fault is that? You seem to believe the fault lies with the man. I don''t. I think a woman can get up and walk out whenever she wants. Maybe something is lost in translation here with our respective countries.

In your last post you (or sharon, can''t remember) mentioned something about birth control failing all the time to justify lowering the dose. In this post you said that reducing to a lower pill is something women do every day. Being that Starset may want children and her boyfriend does not, how is your advice anything other than "trapping a man" should that decision result in a pregnancy?

You''re right that giving an ultimatum makes no sense since couples have sex and accidents DO happen. But that is no reason to help an accident along by lowering your birth control. Not cool.

We just have a completely different opinions on this. I felt the need to speak up because even if I was wrong in my assessment of your statement, it had to be put out there that BOTH sexes have rights. With includes a man wanting to father a child when the woman does not.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 3/8/2009 12:34:45 PM
Author: LaraOnline
Ugh, I now have to consolidate my crime by pointing out a typo in the earlier message above - being that usually, it seems that in arguments about children vs no children, generally it is the man who is negative, and the man who generally maintains the upper hand.

I don''t really have a problem with any of this, although I do wonder about the psychological state of (some) women who are psychologically pressured into not having children against their own desires. Probably because I myself experienced these ''desires'' for children as a massive biological drum beating in my head, it was not at all a pleasant experience!

But I do wish to reiterate my main point, in that it is not a moral imperative for all women to be on water tight artificial contraception at all times... it is not for a man to wave his hand and insist that a woman make herself sterile to accommodate him.

She can choose to be sterile, or she can choose to not be totally sterile (bearing in mind that nature allows for sterile passages within the cycle).

Of course, being a moral person means making a potential partner aware of that choice.

It seems like several people are interested in this discussion, Lara, perhaps we should start a new thread (Family and Home?) and transfer the appropriate posts?

 

[Erin]

I have not and am not on BC. So no one think I even could consider this option

I worked out in the morning, went a visited my sick Aunt 2 hours away. On the way home I bought a new dress for an upcoming business week and didn''t talk or text back all day. But I hated not talking to him and he did too. We were supposed to go to a fish fry (huge party from their Florida fishing trip) across the street from his house so he went and texted me he''d love it if I came but understood if I didn''t.

It was a hard decision but I decided to go and the loving gestures he made all night to me were so heart melting. Of course there were many people there (mostly 30s and 40s) asking us when we''re going to get married. More people know him but not me and the wives would ask me, so do you have children? And they''d go on and on about how much I''ll enjoy it. While he''s looking at me with this look that reads, I''m sorry you have to endure this tonight. So we''d mingle and we had a great time.

We continued the talk at home and he sounds like LA Jen''s brother and I told him I''m already sacrificing with the understanding that I will learn to care about his kids, perhaps even love them without any choice in the matter, get along with his EX who so far seems to loathe me, or at least the mere idea of me, and now also give up having a child just to be with you? All the while understanding that I do not come first in the pull vs push of your existing family - aren''t you already asking enough of me?

There is no clear answer, but we are communicating. And I am still off BC

 

[Mediterranean]

Here''s a different perspective. In all of my relationships, I have been the partner who doesn''t want kids (and I''m a woman). Not my own, biological kids, not adopted kids, not my partner''s kids from a previous relationship, no kids. I like kids and all that, but I don''t have the personality or the mentality or the desire to be a parent. In 6 days, I will be 35 years old, so I have also heard (all my fertile life) "Oh, just you wait and see...you''ll want kids...." It just never happened, although at this age, I now hear "OMG...you''re gonna be soooooo-rrrryyyyy if you don''t have a baby... you''ll regret it....."

I have had men leave me because I steadfastly refused to have kids. I had one guy even try to (ugh. I don''t know if "bribe" is a good word) ...um, "convince" (??) me to marry him and have his kids by promising me a very extravagant lifestyle (I''ll buy you a HUGE diamond ring!!! You can have 2 nannies! You''ll never have to wake up in the middle of the night with the baby!) None of this changed the fact that I don''t want kids. I''ve never felt called to be a parent of any kind.

I am well aware that from a strict biological standpoint sex=kids. I''m sure that if I became pregnant accidentally, we''d love our child and sacrifice and work hard raise him/her the very best way possible (the way all parents do).

However, if my fiance told me that he wants kids, and that he''ll be removing the condom when we have sex, but he''ll withdraw before the...um..."end of the show" in order to "switch to a less effective form of birth control" I would pack my things and leave.

Because although I''m sure I''d love my "surprise baby" I''m pretty sure I''d always resent HIM for choosing to ignore what I''ve been saying for the whole, entire relationship.

The big difference that I see between Lara and Starset is that Lara stated her intentions from the very start of the sexual relationship she had with her childrens'' father. That''s not a script-flip that''s family planning, and it''s honest communication.

Starset''s fella has stated a desire to NOT FATHER ANYMORE CHILDREN. And the couple have used the sort of birth control that is effective enough to make the additional baby an impossibility. If Starset were to all of a sudden tell this man that she is switching to a less effective method of birth control, it feels a little disingenuous because this has not been their agreement since the beginning of the sexual relationship, the way it was with Lara. Lara''s guy entered into it with open eyes and realistic expectations. Starset''s guy is having the rules changed on him in the middle of the game. And, to be fair? Starset''s guy has ALWAYS been honest about his preferences for NO MORE KIDS. From day one. So it''s kind of Starset''s responsibility to determine whether these ideological differences may be worked out to the satisfaction of BOTH partners, or whether she needs to take a walk.

Because, even though I have no doubt that Starset''s guy would love his new son/daughter....I am not sure how he''d feel about HER if the pregnancy was not 100% desired by both partners. And, yes, we all know of guys who felt apprehension at the pregnancy but ended up happy as family men....but most of them are YOUNG and they are FIRST TIME fathers, not divorced dads of two who are speaking from EXPERIENCE when they say, emphatically, "NO. MORE. KIDS!!!"

 

[Mediterranean]

Date: 3/8/2009 3:29:02 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I'm already sacrificing with the understanding that I will learn to care about his kids, perhaps even love them without any choice in the matter, get along with his EX who so far seems to loathe me, or at least the mere idea of me, and now also give up having a child just to be with you? All the while understanding that I do not come first in the pull vs push of your existing family - aren't you already asking enough of me?

This part of your post, right here, describes the very essence and nature of a relationship with a divorced parent. The dynamic into which you are walking involves his ongoing and lifelong relationship with the mother of his children (and this is the only mother of children he wants--he doesn't want more kids), YOUR ongoing and lifelong relationship with the mother of his children, your relationship with the children, your relationship with him, your acceptance that children come first in the life of a parent, and that as his wife (but not their mother) you will be making sacrifices throughout your life for the welfare of these children (you'll sacrifice financial resources, emotional resources, you'll sacrifice your husband's time with you, you'll sacrifice your desires and preferences etc., etc., etc) without having as much appreciation for the sacrifices you make (because they already have a Mom, and unless she's a mess, or an absent parent you won't be as appreciated as she is by the kids).

A lot of this stuff is why single parents perceive themselves to have a hard time finding a partner after they're divorced. It's a lot of hard work and sacrifice for the new wife without the same level of appreciation as the "mother of his children." It's asking a lot of a single childless woman to take this on....

ETA: It doesn't mean that the second wife gets to have a baby "in return for" (jeez, that's so NOT what I want to say, but I can't find an appropriate description for the phenomenon) all that she is sacrificing. It means that the second wife's own, biological child is simply another sacrifice to add to the list of sacrifices. When the potential second wife looks at that list, in its entirety (including not having her own child) is this still the right man for her.....that's really the heart of the matter.

 

[swimmer]

Oh Starset, that is just a very difficult place to occupy. You are in a hard place to make compromises. Thinking of you and hoping that you are doing OK. We all know you to be a very strong and savvy lady. I remember your awesome posts in ATW during the election so am presuming to know that you are wicked clever with a great sense of humor.

 

[Sharon101]

Starset, can you go forward with him on the basis that he would have a child if if meant not loosing you? I personally would take this as a yes.

The other issue is that the relationship is pretty stacked with you doing most of the sacrificing and adjusting. That can be ok if you feel valued and happy in this role. I know many women who have taken on the role as step mother and its worked out fine. ie. each person in the relationship got what they needed out of it. ie love, companionship, sharing of tasks, social acceptance, etc etc.

I personally would say something like......you dont want to loose me do you? And if I accidentally fell pg what would you do? Then I would say.... Hey you know you cant live without me (sort of joking) and i would say...and I am going to have a child, with you or without you (also in a joking voice)....and I would look for a yes, before I gave up on a really good relationship.

I really think it will work out for you, he does sound like a caring considerate guy. I have worked with much less possitive conditions and still made a great life for myself.

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

Starset Princess, I have nothing to add other than I''m thinking about you right now. No matter what happens, I wish you strength to get through it.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 3/8/2009 3:29:02 PM
Author: Starset Princess
I told him I''m already sacrificing with the understanding that I will learn to care about his kids, perhaps even love them without any choice in the matter, get along with his EX who so far seems to loathe me, or at least the mere idea of me, and now also give up having a child just to be with you? All the while understanding that I do not come first in the pull vs push of your existing family - aren''t you already asking enough of me?

Good for you. He may already "know" this but not REALLY realize the extent of the existing compromises you''re making in order to be with him. Compromise should be MUTUAL. If he doesn''t want to lose you, he very well may have to rethink his idea of another child. If he doesn''t ... be very sure you won''t resent him for giving up one of your life''s goals before you decide to stay. Counseling might be in order. Its a big decision. You still have time. You could have a child WITHOUT a man, if that''s your priority. Its hard to think about but, seriously, 50% of 1st marriages end in divorce ... about 60+% of 2nd marriages end in divorce ... what if you DID marry him, stay together until you''re 42-45, have given up your childbirth window for him and THEN lose it all?? A good friend of mine is going through the reverse right now ... SHE didn''t want kids. He left. After 10 years. She''s 43. Its very sad. But less sad than if *she''d* been the one who wanted kids & missed her chance.

By the way, she''s already found love again. A doctor, no less.

And is well on her way to becoming a, HA!!!! stepmom. That''s life!

 

[daydreamer]

Starset Princess - I''m sorry to hear about this turn of events. I am saddened for you and your guy.

I have a number of childless friends (and myself) in their mid to late 30s who have not given up hope of having children. I honestly think 33 is too young to give up on biological children IF this is your desire. Are you truly prepared to make this tremendous sacrifice for him? Are you sure that you won''t become resentful? If he makes the sacrifice and has another child in order to keep you, are you sure that he won''t become resentful? Among the older generation of my family, I''ve seen both of these sacrifices - sometimes they work, sometimes they don''t.

I can relate to the feeling of not wanting to miss the experience, but yet never feeling a strong maternal drive and, frankly, most likely being ok with not having a child (it''s not for everyone no matter what parents say in public), but I feel never having a child is something that I would want to make my peace with on my own timeline rather than from being pushed with an ultimatum.

Only you can decide what is best for you. I hope he comes around to wanting a child with you.

P.S. Side thought: maybe you could have a child on your own and then form a blended family with him and you both being stepparents? Crazier things have happened.

 

[EyeElle]

I am so sorry you are going through this, I cannot even imagine what you are going through but I know how incredibly hard it must be.

There is alot of talk about sacrifices going on, whether its him making it or you. But how about you step back from that for a second and really reflect on the relationship you have NOW, in the present!

He is willing to have children if it means losing you, and you inreturn are willing not to have them if it means losing him. I think you both love each other very much and the idea of losing each other is unbearable. Why don''t you take sometime to reflect on that.

I know having children is a huge issue and I am by no means telling you to forget about it or that it''s no big deal. But I do think that it''s important you look at what you have and not focus ALL your thougths on what you might or might not have in the future.

Having kids is a wonderful thing for many, but many women are indifferent to having them. Some women can''t live without being moms and some never want to take that role.

Where do you stand????

Are you willing to give up this man for the "experience" of being a mom, give up this man because "being a mom is what is expected of women", are you willing to give him up because ONE DAY you might wake up and MAYBE "resent him" or "regret not having any kids" ???? Is being a mom something you have envisioned for yourself and always thought you just would be one?? Would you be just as happy to have kids with another man as long as you have them????

Reflect on the relationship and how it is and how you want a life with this man. If kids are just something that you "assumed" would be a step in your relationship, and didn''t give to much thought about then maybe you would be ok with not having them??

I realize it may look like I am all over the place, but I just wanted to bring a different perspective, one that focuses more on the man you love and not the future you once expected. Kids will always be in your future because he has them, granted they are not your biological kids but nonetheless they are children you can care for. It is important to have kids with the right man, your IDEAL husband and father. Unfortuantely both roles aren''t always found in the men who we fall in love with.

At the end of the day, your children grow up and move out and start lives of their own, and at the end of the day all you have left is your husband. Please truly give some thought about your relationship with him, and for a second forget about kids (just for a second . Because just as you might one day resent him and regret not having kids with him, you might just as well wake up one day and regret having kids with a man that wasn''t your ideal mate .... don''t live your life with the "idea" that you will regret something, because then you will always live in fear.

Best of luck!

 

[Erin]

EyeElle - it''s like you''ve seen my thoughts on paper. Thank you for putting it in green and white so very succinctly. My sister thinks I''m stark mad for still hanging around him. I can''t help it. I''m not upset with him and I don''t want to be without him. As long as we''re talking about it I hope we can come to a compromise (half a baby?) that at least we know we thought out. But I don''t want everyday to be about talking. Sometimes I just want to be ourselves without the talk, too.

 

[janinegirly]

Late to this thread, so looks like I missed alot!

I'm sorry to hear all of this Starset. I had my fingers crossed but to be honest kind of expected this since I've been following your story for sometime now. Wasn't there that period where you met someone else with more spark that made you question your relationship (sorry if I'm remembering wrong). I think you need to be very honest with yourself about your priorities. Your man adores you, but he is not decisive. He'll go along with what you want--but do you want to be going at this pace / pattern forever? He doesn't want to lose you, but doesn't want to change anything either! It's clear from your posts here, that you do want children. Of course everyone has fears and doubts, but you do seem to have that urge. If you don't follow it through, well, in my opionin it does lead to resentment. Of course this is me taking the leap and assuming children is a priority of yours. If you're willing to say, no...my relationship is my priority. Then there's your answer. If your career's your priority there's your answer too. I'm not saying women cannot have it all, I'm just saying it makes it easier to boil it down to what you need out of life to feel complete. But just be honest about it. We've seen too many women here make excuses (usually it's over impending propsals...ladies convincing themselves they're not ready to be married..all the waiting is fine, etc etc), and ultimately you have to make a decision for you. The way things are now, it looks like he wants you to make the decision. And the way things are now...nothing will change another year from now..or more..
Don't let yourself feel trapped. You're only 34, and do have plenty of time to meet someone new and have a child. Things happen quicky when 2 people are on the same page.

 

[ladypirate]

I''m so sorry about the way this has transpired, starset. It sounds like you are still hopeful, though, which is good. Please keep us updated with what you decide. *hugs*

 

[janinegirly]

SP: you haven''t checked in awhile, hope everything is going ok..

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I want to share this story with you because I think it may be helpful...

My Dad was married to another woman before he married my Mom. We''ll call this woman Rose. Rose and my Dad had two daughters, H & A. Unfortunately, like so many marriages...theirs didn''t work out. My Dad moved out, and on with his life. He remained an active parent in H & A''s lives...he never missed a weekend with them, took them on trips, paid for everything when it came to the expenses of the girls...he was very involved. Eventually, he met my Mom. They totally hit it off and my Mom became a big factor in his life. He included her when it came to his children...and she loved H & A very much.

As my Mom and Dad grew more serious, they started discussing mariage. My Mom wanted her own children in the worst way...and my Dad had finally decided that he didn''t want more children. This was an issue neither one was willing to give on...so, they seperated but remained friends.

In March of that year A was home sick with her Grandmother (Rose''s Mom) and the furnace exploded, killing them both. As you can imagine, my Dad was heartbroken...and my Mom was by his side 100%. About a year later, my Dad made the decision that he loved my Mom so much he couldn''t imagine his life without her, and wanted to have more children.

So, long story short...they married in private ceremony--and had me less that one year later...my sister followed 5 years after that. My Dad ended up with 4 daughters in all...and he''s the happiest man I know. He harbors no regrets.

____

So, my advice is, give your relationship some room to breathe. Give your SO a chance to actually miss you...let him decide what he wants in his life. Trickery when it comes to children is an awful thing, and I hope you''re not considering accidentally getting pregnant to keep him...