The Trump Policy of Separating Families at the US Border

[AGBF]

It is liberals like you who are holding back young minorities from advancing in education. you would rather see them staying on welfare than to get a good education.

You think I hold people back? I teach immigrants with green cards citizenship without pay. When they pass their citizenship tests, they come back and thank me. Before that I taught high school history so that our country did not turn out a generation of morons. No one has, yet, said I held him back. What do you do for anyone but yourself and your own family? What do you do except make money? Who do you help on the road to a better education and being a better informed citizen?

 

[MJ_Mac]

A totally different scenario of families being separated. A young woman from France who was visiting her mother in British Columbia, Canada went for a jog along a beach in B.C. and accidentally crossed the border into the USA. There was no signage along the beach where she was jogging indicating she had crossed the border. She was apprehended by 2 border patrol agents. She did not have documentation on her and was detained for 2 weeks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...order-from-b-c-detained-for-2-weeks-1.4717060

 

[Dancing Fire]

You think I hold people back? I teach immigrants with green cards citizenship without pay. When they pass their citizenship tests, they come back and thank me. Before that I taught high school history so that our country did not turn out a generation of morons. No one has, yet, said I held him back. What do you do for anyone but yourself and your own family? What do you do except make money? Who do you help on the road to a better education and being a better informed citizen?

I help many elderly chinese to pass their citizenship tests. What is wrong with being self-sufficient w/o depending on the government?

 

[Dancing Fire]

All of you talking about how you would have never taken gov. assistance: You DO realize that wages have not kept up with the cost of living, food, college, etc, right? You are talking about a WAY different time than now.

True, 40 yrs ago people were much more self-sufficient. Our parents chose to work instead of going on welfare or else there is a good chance of wife and I becoming the 2nd generation of welfare recipients.

 

[Bonfire]

I help many elderly chinese to pass their citizenship tests. What is wrong with being self-sufficient w/o depending on the government?

DF you have every right to be proud of your familie’s work ethic and accomplishments. Don’t accept anyone here calling you out on it.

 

[AGBF]

DF you have every right to be proud of your familie’s work ethic and accomplishments. Don’t accept anyone here calling you out on it.

I did not "call him out on it" so much as respond to a personal attack in kind. I should not have done so, but please call a spade a spade. He said directly to me "It is liberals like you who hold people back" before I (inappropriately) retaliated. I apologize for saying you do nothing for others, Dancing Fire.

Deb

 

[Dancing Fire]

I did not "call him out on it" so much as respond to a personal attack in kind. I should not have done so, but please call a spade a spade. He said directly to me "It is liberals like you who hold people back" before I (inappropriately) retaliated. I apologize for saying you do nothing for others, Dancing Fire.

Deb

Deb
No need to apologize b/c I don't feel any animosities from the liberals here.

 

[Bonfire]

I did not "call him out on it" so much as respond to a personal attack in kind. I should not have done so, but please call a spade a spade. He said directly to me "It is liberals like you who hold people back" before I (inappropriately) retaliated. I apologize for saying you do nothing for others, Dancing Fire.

Deb

I get the impression that you are a kind and sensitive person AGBF. In asking me to call a spade a spade, DF always talks in generalities here, where as you spoke about him personally. He responded in kind that no apology was necessary, but it was lovely that you did.

 

[Maria D]

Think whatever you want . FYI, most of us Chinese immigrants from the 60's were too proud to go on welfare. My wife and I was first generation in our families to able to speak english, and our daughter's generation was the first generation in our families to earn a college degrees. All of our nieces and nephews from both side of the family graduated from college, and 6 are working in the medical fields.

It is liberals like you who are holding back young minorities from advancing in education. you would rather see them staying on welfare than to get a good education.

Ok, so what? Do you want some kind of medal? In this regard, your children are exactly like me. My parents were the first generation to speak English, my siblings and cousins were the first generation to earn college degrees. Every single one of my cousins earned a college degree. Not one family ever needed government assistance. They all worked hard. Our parents were from Italy not China.

What has this got to do with anything? I'm a liberal and a high school teacher. I help provide a good education for a living. Many of my students need government assistance to get fed. Hunger is a huge detriment to learning. Some of them are immigrants and some are plain old poor Americans. I want them all to have a fully belly before they come to class. This ridiculous idea you have that everyone who receives government assistance is just lazy and milking the system is false. I am lucky in that I get to see the benefit of our tax dollars helping people every day. This year I had three students in one Calculus class who got full-boat scholarships to prestigious private colleges. Two came to the US as refugees and one was from a generationally poor family. All three received gov't assistance at some point in their lives. Their experiences are why I'm still proud to be American.

 

[JPie]

I did not "call him out on it" so much as respond to a personal attack in kind. I should not have done so, but please call a spade a spade. He said directly to me "It is liberals like you who hold people back" before I (inappropriately) retaliated. I apologize for saying you do nothing for others, Dancing Fire.

Deb

The secret is to be passive-aggressive and throw in sweeping generalizations. Once you provoke someone enough to get them to call your BS, others will defend you because passive aggressiveness is forgiven or ignored but direct aggression is never okay.

In this manner, the party of personal responsibility may lecture others about it without ever taking any.

 

[Maria D]

DF you have every right to be proud of your familie’s work ethic and accomplishments. Don’t accept anyone here calling you out on it.

So pride in your family gives you the right to denigrate others?

 

[Bluegemz]

I hate that people think that those on welfare are just lazy too. It’s not laziness. It’s being trapped in a bad situation. And I really dislike the spirit that unless you are strong and perfect, then you’re a lazy parasite loser. People fall down. Not everyone is strong all of the time. They are worthy of respect and do have something to offer too.

This was propogated in Regan’s time...,the “welfare Queen” . Maybe in previous generations, fewer people did not rely on government assistance because infrastructure was intact. We had affordable childcare, health care, housing etc. people were more willing and ABLE to help others. Infrastructure started to decline, I believe under Regan too. A recent UN report revealed that we have the highest poverty rate of any first world country proportionally, and the highest incarceration.

I know people who can’t afford to get off of medicare because they can’t pay over &1000 a month in insurance. They have kids and they are trying. The soup kitchens are full of stories of hard working people who fell through the cracks after a tradgedy. And what about the people that are old, and the vets who get a measly SS check, but no services to help with the PTSD which they often have? How are they suppose to magically get on their feet again? I’ve seen an article about how A growing number of American college kids don’t have the money to eat now.

I also know that it’s not as simple as saying that they should ‘just get an edication’. The system is rigged for the wealthy or talented to get an education.

I think we need to invest in infastructute, to continually invest in the social fabric which makes life good for everyone. It’s not just business, it’s culture. Instead tax dollars go to needless imprisonment, and processing, as in the case of the immigrants. Some will be waiting in camps for years. How much is that costing us?

 

[soxfan]

True, 40 yrs ago people were much more self-sufficient. Our parents chose to work instead of going on welfare or else there is a good chance of wife and I becoming the 2nd generation of welfare recipients.

You didn't even READ my post. :roll They were able to make a living because they made a LIVING WAGE.

 

[Bonfire]

I hate that people think that those on welfare are just lazy too. It’s not laziness. It’s being trapped in a bad situation. And I really dislike the spirit that unless you are strong and perfect, then you’re a lazy parasite loser. People fall down. Not everyone is strong all of the time. They are worthy of respect and do have something to offer too.

This was propogated in Regan’s time...,the “welfare Queen” . Maybe in previous generations, fewer people did not rely on government assistance because infrastructure was intact. We had affordable childcare, health care, housing etc. people were more willing and ABLE to help others. Infrastructure started to decline, I believe under Regan too. A recent UN report revealed that we have the highest poverty rate of any first world country proportionally, and the highest incarceration.

I know people who can’t afford to get off of medicare because they can’t pay over &1000 a month in insurance. They have kids and they are trying. The soup kitchens are full of stories of hard working people who fell through the cracks after a tradgedy. And what about the people that are old, and the vets who get a measly SS check, but no services to help with the PTSD which they often have? How are they suppose to magically get on their feet again? I’ve seen an article about how A growing number of American college kids don’t have the money to eat now.

I also know that it’s not as simple as saying that they should ‘just get an edication’. The system is rigged for the wealthy or talented to get an education.

I think we need to invest in infastructute, to continually invest in the social fabric which makes life good for everyone. It’s not just business, it’s culture. Instead tax dollars go to needless imprisonment, and processing, as in the case of the immigrants. Some will be waiting in camps for years. How much is that costing us?

@Maria D @Bluegemz
I don’t disagree with most of what you say. There are plenty of folks that need this safety net. No one has the moral high road here. We all do the best we can. Please don’t forget my brother gave his life for this country and ALL the people and our way of life and our right for freedom of speech. NO I don’t need a medal, but I sure would have liked to have my brother in my life. Go ahead and jump on, but unless you have walked in MY shoes, the empathy you all purportedly have rings hollow.

 

[redwood66]

The secret is to be passive-aggressive and throw in sweeping generalizations. Once you provoke someone enough to get them to call your BS, others will defend you because passive aggressiveness is forgiven or ignored but direct aggression is never okay.

In this manner, the party of personal responsibility may lecture others about it without ever taking any.

I would say it works both ways. Sweeping generalizations about Trump voters, conservatives, and Republicans abound here in Hangout.

 

[JPie]

I would say it works both ways. Sweeping generalizations about Trump voters, conservatives, and Republicans abound here in Hangout.

Here’s another one for you.

Whenever Team Trump does yet another egregious thing, plenty of conservatives come to his defense with a healthy dose of bothsiderism or accusations of hystrionics. Conservative values mean that if a Democrat does it, we must condemn it and demand prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. If a Republican does it, defend him and remind everybody that a Democrat once did something bad too so who are they to cast the first stone? Personal responsibility indeed!

I suspect the awful liberals would be less inclined to make sweeping generalizations if their conservative counterparts didn’t so reliably rise to every occasion to normalize Trump.

 

[redwood66]

Here’s another one for you.

Whenever Team Trump does yet another egregious thing, plenty of conservatives come to his defense with a healthy dose of bothsiderism or accusations of hystrionics. Conservative values mean that if a Democrat does it, we must condemn it and demand prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. If a Republican does it, defend him and remind everybody that a Democrat once did something bad too so who are they to cast the first stone? Personal responsibility indeeed!

I suspect the awful liberals would be less inclined to make sweeping generalizations if their conservative counterparts didn’t so reliably rise to every occasion to normalize Trump.

There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around in politics and it should always be acknowledged. If one is so deep into their camp that they cannot do this then there is no point in a discussion. I see no point in attempting to discuss Trump with anyone who would call voters Nazis or other foul names.

I am not into poo flinging because it is a waste of time and effort. Not to mention messy.

 

[soxfan]

Here’s another one for you.

Whenever Team Trump does yet another egregious thing, plenty of conservatives come to his defense with a healthy dose of bothsiderism or accusations of hystrionics. Conservative values mean that if a Democrat does it, we must condemn it and demand prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. If a Republican does it, defend him and remind everybody that a Democrat once did something bad too so who are they to cast the first stone? Personal responsibility indeed!

I suspect the awful liberals would be less inclined to make sweeping generalizations if their conservative counterparts didn’t so reliably rise to every occasion to normalize Trump.

 

[JPie]

I think the biggest snowflakes who need safe spaces are conservatives. The rules are:

• Defend Milena for wearing a jacket that reads “I don’t care” to visit detainees
• Wring your hands at the thought of Trumpsters being called Nazis when Trump has literally defended neo-Nazis for running down protestors

Then, when someone calls any of this out, take your ball and refuse to play, then flounce away.

 

[Calliecake]

@Bonfire, I’m sorry for you and your families loss. Losing someone we love is devastating and life altering. I haven’t walked in your shoes but came close to losing a brother. I would not wish that pain on anyone and we still have him. I’m so sorry Bonfire.

 

[Maria D]

@Maria D @Bluegemz
I don’t disagree with most of what you say. There are plenty of folks that need this safety net. No one has the moral high road here. We all do the best we can. Please don’t forget my brother gave his life for this country and ALL the people and our way of life and our right for freedom of speech. NO I don’t need a medal, but I sure would have liked to have my brother in my life. Go ahead and jump on, but unless you have walked in MY shoes, the empathy you all purportedly have rings hollow.

My "do you want a medal" comment was not directed at you. It was for DF, who has told us ad infinitum how his family was able to succeed in this country without ever availing themselves of government "handouts."

Also: no one once suggested that DF should not take pride in his family's accomplishments. It is DF whose comments say that his family did not need a safety net because they were willing to work hard, ergo those that do need help are not hard workers. If you want to take someone to task for claiming the moral high ground you should start with DF.

Finally, who is attacking anyone's freedom of speech? Not me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You didn't even READ my post. :roll They were able to make a living because they made a LIVING WAGE.

SF
Living wages???, LOL!. If you think chinese immigrants were making minimum wages working in hot chinese restaurant kitchens then you obviously don't know what life was like with immigrants. This was the early 70's ...< $200 per month 11 hours per day 6 days per week.

 

[Bonfire]

@Bonfire, I’m sorry for you and your families loss. Losing someone we love is devastating and life altering. I haven’t walked in your shoes but came close to losing a brother. I would not wish that pain on anyone and we still have him. I’m so sorry Bonfire.

Thank you that means a lot. I appreciate your compassion and I’m so glad that you still have your brother. You are a sweetheart Calliecake.

 

[Calliecake]

@Dancing Fire , I worked for 36 years and never needed to be on welfare. For 12 years I supported myself on very little money. I’ve always considered myself lucky that I didn’t need it and I’m very grateful that safety net is there for those who do need it. I was very fortunate to have people help me when I needed help. Instead of constantly worrying about someone getting a benefit you haven’t taken, have you ever once been grateful that you didn’t need it? Do you not understand that life can be very hard for people at different times in their life. Very few of us make it thru life with everything working out the way we planned. Wouldn’t the world be a better place if we all helped each other, instead of worrying that someone is getting something you are not?

 

[soxfan]

SF
Living wages???, LOL!. If you think chinese immigrants were making minimum wages working in hot chinese restaurant kitchens then you obviously don't know what life was like with immigrants. This was the early 70's ...< $200 per month 11 hours per day 6 days per week.

Right, and what was the cost of food and housing then? That's my point. My dad was a laborer during that exact time and did not make a lot. He was able to buy a house for $20,000. He worked long hours. My mother took care of kids in her house to make ends meet. We were poor. We ate cheap food, had cheap clothes. But at least their wages matched the cost of living for the most part. It's not that way any more, DF. There are people working two jobs who can't afford to feed their families. My dad had NO education and he could still make a living. You can't do that any more. Can't you understand what I'm saying? There are people busting their butts but because of the cost of health care, inflation, greedy corporations, and an inflated housing market people cannot afford to live like they did in the 70's.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I think the biggest snowflakes who need safe spaces are conservatives. The rules are:

• Defend Milena for wearing a jacket that reads “I don’t care” to visit detainees
• Wring your hands at the thought of Trumpsters being called Nazis when Trump has literally defended neo-Nazis for running down protestors

Then, when someone calls any of this out, take your ball and refuse to play, then flounce away.

FYI , the 3 conservatives who used to post on political threads had left long ago. The liberals took over PS for the past 10 yrs.

 

[redwood66]

I think the biggest snowflakes who need safe spaces are conservatives. The rules are:

• Defend Milena for wearing a jacket that reads “I don’t care” to visit detainees
• Wring your hands at the thought of Trumpsters being called Nazis when Trump has literally defended neo-Nazis for running down protestors

Then, when someone calls any of this out, take your ball and refuse to play, then flounce away.

I truly hope your outlook on the state of affairs gets better and I hope all the people who are miserable find peace somehow. No hand wringing or safe space needed for me.

 

[Bluegemz]

@Maria D @Bluegemz
I don’t disagree with most of what you say. There are plenty of folks that need this safety net. No one has the moral high road here. We all do the best we can. Please don’t forget my brother gave his life for this country and ALL the people and our way of life and our right for freedom of speech. NO I don’t need a medal, but I sure would have liked to have my brother in my life. Go ahead and jump on, but unless you have walked in MY shoes, the empathy you all purportedly have rings hollow.

I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. I’m sorry, truly. I did not know that about you. I can’t imagine what that must be like. I want you to know that My post was in no way referring to you, at ALL. I hope that you don’t feel that it is was. I was attempting to express frustration about a general attitude which has been growing. (As an example, remember how trump mocked a handicapped person at a rally in front of everyone?) ) And it is a trigger point for me. I believe that we are truly all in this together.

A personal story, why ithe subject of infastructute is particularly important to me. I have an older brother who is severely handicapped. He was brain damaged by a doctor with too much hubris, and over medicated my mother when she was 5 month’s pregnant against her will while cervical cancer cells were removed. The medicine Overdose ruined his brain. My father made good money, but even with paying out tremendously to fortify the social services which he gets for all of these years, it’s never enough. The organizations have so much need. (he’s now 46 and they are mid 70’s) Care takers have to spend 24 hours a day, we all rely, inspite of giving a lot monthly, on the organization which sets this up, people who are trained to do this kind of work. Those people struggle with a living wage, health insurance. And yet they do this work which is least egocentric and requires a lot of love and bravery. We’ve donated cars, money etc. I’ve seen so many stories in which people like my brother lived in deplorable situations when families can’t help, or are simply locked away in a hospital forever. It’s heartbreaking. I am very worried about what would happen if these organizations break down, for all of the families and people which are in similar situations. I worry that the types of people who are able to do this work can’t anymore because they can’t compete, and the general dissolution of community.

 

[Bonfire]

I’m sorry for the loss of your brother. I’m sorry, truly. I did not know that about you. My post was in no way referring to you, at ALL. I was attempting to express frustration about a general attitude which has been growing. And it is a trigger point for me. I believe that we are truly all in this together.

A personal story, why ithe subject of infastructute is particularly important to me. I have an older brother who is severely handicapped. He was brain damaged by a doctor with too much hubris, and over medicated my mother when she was 5 month’s pregnant against her will while cervical cancer cells were removed. The medicine Overdose ruined his brain. My father made good money, but even with paying out tremendously to fortify the social services which he gets for all of these years, it’s never enough. The organizations have so much need. (he’s now 46 and they are mid 70’s) Care takers have to spend 24 hours a day, we all rely, inspite of giving a lot monthly, on the organization which sets this up, people who are trained to do this kind of work. Those people struggle with a living wage, health insurance. And yet they do this work which is least egocentric and requires a lot of love and bravery. We’ve donated cars, money etc. I’ve seen so many stories in which people like my brother lived in deplorable situations when families can’t help, or are simply locked away in a hospital forever. It’s heartbreaking. I am very worried about what would happen if these organizations break down, for all of the families that are in similar situations. I worry that the types of people who are able to do this work can’t anymore because they can’t compete.

Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry about your brother! We all come from different walks of life but we truly do walk together (as cheesy as that sounds). Thank you for your condolences. I didn’t share this for sympathy be assured. I think at 62 I’m much older than the majority on this forum. Please don’t take this as arrogance, but my experience tells me that there is no perfect dogma. Dust for your brother and family, I wish you all well.

 

[Bluegemz]

Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry about your brother! We all come from different walks of life but we truly do walk together (as cheesy as that sounds). Thank you for your condolences. I didn’t share this for sympathy be assured. I think at 62 I’m much older than the majority on this forum. Please don’t take this as arrogance, but my experience tells me that there is no perfect dogma. Dust for your brother and family, I wish you all well.

Much appreciated, thank you! Also to you. I know you are not sharing for sympathy. Wishing the same to your family.

I notice that my posts are sometimes misinterpreted. I am trying to get more precise, and I value this forum as a way in which I can practice and understand others better. I want everyone to know that, though I’m sometimes opinionated, sometimes impassioned to share ideas, it’s just expression, and not personal. I’m in no way judging anyone here. I know that we don’t really know each other and there is only so much one can gather about another from posts alone. Digression over!