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The Trump Policy of Separating Families at the US Border

arkieb1 said:
Believe it or not most of the world don't care if the US votes in another conservative, vote in as many as you want, my own mother is a die hard conservative and will be until the day she dies. It's the very core of who Trump is and what he stands for and against that most rational thinkers cannot stand.
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That's the whole thing - he's not even a conservative! He is in a (low) class by himself. True conservatives (classical liberals) hold fast to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They don't pick and choose what benefits themself at any given moment.
 
And the fact that he is a dangerous, ‘malignant narcissist ‘, means that he is unfit to be president. It goes way deeper than party politics.
 
No wonder the ‘elites’ don’t accept him. He’s delusional, crazy, unsophisticated , tasteless, crude, rude, oblivious, mean and without class.

Side note....his Louis XIV taste, with heavy gold and marble is as tacky as you can get. Typical American middle class anxiety...to appear wealthier than you are, with an obsession with looking more upscale. The middle class always has the anxiety of slipping down in the class ladder, so they over compensate. They often fill homes with publications and iconic references, which would leave any visitor in doubt of thier anxiety.
And money does not buy class, contrary to what most Americans believe. Truly upper class elites don’t have this ‘overcompensation‘, often using thread bare, passed on carpets, beat up luxury cars and plastic champagne glasses. They know where they stand and don’t bother with putting on a show, unless it’s a truly special occasion. This is also somewhat true of the proliterian class in America. The lowest and highest are the most ‘free’ of class anxiety and appearances. in Europe, it’s a little different, because ‘high art’, and integrating beauty into life is truly interwoven into the culture, in all classes. Any teenager there can tell you who thier favorite artists are and why.
 
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Is it any wonder why Trump had to brag about his ‘better apartment ‘, and having called the White House a “real dump”? And then having to renovate with fancier decore, to suit his presidency? ( note that the word fancier says it all!) His core anxiety, both as an integral part of being a narcissist, and his non elite position, is stunningly obvious.
 
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ceg said:
@Bluegemz

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/donald-trumps-fake-renoir :eek2::eek2::eek2:

This is so pathetic, should be a mark of derision. I really wonder about Melania's diamond. Sorry, I've digressed into cattiness. :lol-2::P2:mrgreen2:
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Just like his fake furniture, fake Time Magazine covers, fake wife, badly and cheaply built, Trump tower, in which he claims that there are 2 or more floors then there actually are.....and on and on. Such emptiness, without soul, without ties to any true meaning other than the will to dazzle people. Little does he realize how transparent this is to all, except to ( and unfortunately)unsophisticated/uneducated/unthinking people...desperate for an idol. And those held in collusion with him, who try to believe his alternative reality in order to survive. And those too proud to acknowledge/admit that they bought in to rhetoric of a false person. And those who share his resentment and hate, attracted to the larger than life grandiosity, often other narcissists.
 
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The one good consequence of this immigration attrocity, is that it has also unified people, local and abroad, against trump’s compulsive policies. Regardless of political party, too low is too low.
 
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Bluegemz said:
No wonder the ‘elites’ don’t accept him. He’s delusional, crazy, unsophisticated , tasteless, crude, rude, oblivious, mean and without class.

Side note....his Louis XIV taste, with heavy gold and marble is as tacky as you can get. Typical American middle class anxiety...to appear wealthier than you are, with an obsession with looking more upscale. The middle class always has the anxiety of slipping down in the class ladder, so they over compensate. They often fill homes with publications and iconic references, which would leave any visitor in doubt of thier anxiety.
And money does not buy class, contrary to what most Americans believe. Truly upper class elites don’t have this ‘overcompensation‘, often using thread bare, passed on carpets, beat up luxury cars and plastic champagne glasses. They know where they stand and don’t bother with putting on a show, unless it’s a truly special occasion. This is also somewhat true of the proliterian class in America. The lowest and highest are the most ‘free’ of class anxiety and appearances. in Europe, it’s a little different, because ‘high art’, and integrating beauty into life is truly interwoven into the culture, in all classes. Any teenager there can tell you who thier favorite artists are and why.
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Many of us are familiar with the stereotypes of the middle class. But please give Americans more credit. We don’t all believe money buys class. Hence, the KarTrashians.
I don’t use Europe as a barometer of good taste. If repressing simple luxuries in life just to appear tasteful is the indicator of class, I count my blessings that I am an American and can flaunt my 2.5 carat ring Bc I earned it and I love it. Thank God I don’t have to justify my taste to anyone. Imagine having to wear a .25 carat just to refrain from looking gaudy. Oh yeah. And to force myself to drink champagne from a plastic glass when I can easily drink it from a glass and enjoy it. Why torture myself? No need to repress my desires. As to high art and teens, please. Every teen that I teach can name their favorite artists too, not very admirable to know who you like and why. The very fact that You distinguish between high art and contemporary art and plain art is elitist. And unAmerican. Bc you are narrowing the definition of art. The beauty of America is that the self-made man is free to enjoy the fruits of his labor and has access to upward class mobility. Digression over.
 
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nala said:
Many of us are familiar with the stereotypes of the middle class. But please give Americans more credit. We don’t all believe money buys class. Hence, the KarTrashians.
I don’t use Europe as a barometer of good taste. If repressing simple luxuries in life just to appear tasteful is the indicator of class, I count my blessings that I am an American and can flaunt my 2.5 carat ring Bc I earned it and I love it. Thank God I don’t have to justify my taste to anyone. Imagine having to wear a .25 carat just to refrain from looking gaudy. Oh yeah. And to force myself to drink champagne from a plastic glass when I can easily drink it from a glass and enjoy it. Why torture myself? No need to repress my desires. As to high art and teens, please. Every teen that I teach can name their favorite artists too, not very admirable to know who you like and why. The very fact that You distinguish between high art and contemporary art and plain art is elitist. And unAmerican. Bc you are narrowing the definition of art. The beauty of America is that the self-made man is free to enjoy the fruits of his labor and has access to upward class mobility. Digression over.
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Im sorry that you took it so personally. It really isn’t about you, and I’m not judging you or anyone here. I too love jewelry and collect it. I don’t deny my love for it, like everyone else here. I was referring this to Trump. I know the idea of class in America is offensive to some people, but it is there, and growing. Maybe you can look into the subject as I have been. OBVIOUSLY not everyone fits into generalities.

As a trained artist myself, I’m not narrowing any kind of art, having respect for all forms, and freedom of expression. Clearly you misunderstood and misinterpreted. My point is that beauty and art are integrated into culture in a DIFFERENT way, thus it is accessible and spoken about. Ordinary People own art, not just the super rich, with fake Renoir paintings to give the appearance of owning art. Further more, I think it IS admirable for teens to have a relationship to the messages given in art. Most I know here don’t, and that’s the truth. Im glad that you know a few....

Call me unAmerican all you want, but I am American and German, and you are in no position make such a claim. Your unwillingness to refrain from jumping to conclusions and damning someone right away, without clarification, actually is the definition of elitist.

As for your “self-made” man, that has to be one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated at the expense of the American people. Name me one person in the history of the world who has climbed to the top of any social order without the help of the community and infrastructures that are in place. Like it or not, we are all in this together.
 
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Bluegemz said:
Im sorry that you took it so personally. It really isn’t about you, and I’m not judging you or anyone here. I too love jewelry and collect it. I don’t deny my love for it, like everyone else here. I was referring this to Trump. As a trained artist myself, I’m not narrowing any kind of art, having respect for all forms, and freedom of expression. Clearly you misunderstood and misinterpreted. My point is that beauty and art are integrated into culture in a DIFFERENT way, thus it is accessible and spoken about. Ordinary People own art, not just the super rich, with fake Renoir paintings to give the appearance of owning art. Further more, I think it IS admirable for teens to have a relationship to the messages given in art. Most I know here don’t, and that’s the truth. Im glad that you know a few....

Call me unAmerican all you want, but I am American and German, and you are in no position make such a claim. Your unwillingness to refrain from jumping to conclusions and damning someone right away, without clarification, actually is the definition of elitist.

As for your “self-made” man, that has to be one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated at the expense of the American people. Name me one person in the history of the world who has climbed to the top of any social order without the help of the community and infrastructures that are in place. Like it or not, we are all in this together.
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Nothing personal. Just didn’t agree with your narrow minded generalizations. Still don’t. But I don’t want to minimize the importance of this thread by continuing this digression.
 
Bluegemz said:
As for your “self-made” man, that has to be one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated at the expense of the American people. Name me one person in the history of the world who has climbed to the top of any social order without the help of the community and infrastructures that are in place. Like it or not, we are all in this together.
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My husband is one. He grew up sleeping on a pull out mattress from under his mother’s bed in her bedroom in her parents house.

He pulled himself up and out with hard work, his brain and no reliance on government programs. It’s true.

When I sit back and think of what he has done in one generation, it is truly amazing.
 
nala said:
Nothing personal. Just didn’t agree with your narrow minded generalizations. Still don’t. But I don’t want to minimize the importance of this thread by continuing this digression.
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Well we agree to disagree. I see you can’t resist adding in a last ad hominem remark.
 
whitewave said:
My husband is one. He grew up sleeping on a pull out mattress from under his mother’s bed in her bedroom in her parents house.

He pulled himself up and out with hard work, his brain and no reliance on government programs. It’s true.

When I sit back and think of what he has done in one generation, it is truly amazing.
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Ok, yes, there are those I know who had this strength which your husband has.....my father was also one of them. But all of his will was made fruitful by both his determination, but also having a sound society in place, with equitable rules, freedom to grow...the efforts of those before him who contributed to putting this order in place. that’s what I’m talking about. He was an inventor/euntreprenuer, had a silicon valley company in the early days. He never took full credit for his accomplishments because he knew he depended very much on his team of people, everyone from the mailman, the secretaries, the salesmen, etc. they all played a vital role.
 
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whitewave said:
My husband is one. He grew up sleeping on a pull out mattress from under his mother’s bed in her bedroom in her parents house.

He pulled himself up and out with hard work, his brain and no reliance on government programs. It’s true.

When I sit back and think of what he has done in one generation, it is truly amazing.
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Now let me say this— his grandparents lived through the depression so they never believed in credit and never bought above their means. They also didn’t believe in taking government assistance.

It would have been easier for him had they taken assistance, yes.

When we were in his medical residency, coming off of his cancer diagnosis and treatment and then having 3 kids in 2 years (surprise post chemo twins), I did use the health department for their shots and I did look into qualifying for WIC, but we made 3k more than the cut off.

Once when I was growing up, we were on food stamps for a short while. My mother was so mortified that she drove to the grocery 5 miles away so no one would recognize her,

So I’m not saying government assistance is bad, just that some people (for whatever reasons) will refuse the help.

(But I digress)
 
whitewave said:
The hate plate is fine and funny. Asking sanders to leave, IMO, is not ok.
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I posted this because Her father who was so outraged that she was asked to leave, defended Kim Davis whose JOB it was to give marriage licenses. She refused because she didn't agree with it. The Red Hen refused to serve Sarah Sanders because they don't agree with what she does. Same exact thing.

Hypocrites.
 
whitewave said:
Now let me say this— his grandparents lived through the depression so they never believed in credit and never bought above their means. They also didn’t believe in taking government assistance.

It would have been easier for him had they taken assistance, yes.

When we were in his medical residency, coming off of his cancer diagnosis and treatment and then having 3 kids in 2 years (surprise post chemo twins), I did use the health department for their shots and I did look into qualifying for WIC, but we made 3k more than the cut off.

Once when I was growing up, we were on food stamps for a short while. My mother was so mortified that she drove to the grocery 5 miles away so no one would recognize her,

So I’m not saying government assistance is bad, just that some people (for whatever reasons) will refuse the help.

(But I digress)
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I’m a big believer in not relying on assistance. For those that do, they tend to remain stuck...it’s not enough to get ahead, and if you make more people will lose it....I know some people rely on assistance, but I think it’s a bad deal for most people, never mind the shame which it brings. But, it’s a good thing when people really fall down, as a temporary reprieve only. Though the handicapped and wounded vets are a different story.
 
soxfan said:
I posted this because Her father who was so outraged that she was asked to leave, defended Kim Davis whose JOB it was to give marriage licenses. She refused because she didn't agree with it. The Red Hen refused to serve Sarah Sanders because they don't agree with what she does. Same exact thing.

Hypocrites.
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Oh, yeah, I know. Don’t even get me started about Kim Davis.
 
whitewave said:
Now let me say this— his grandparents lived through the depression so they never believed in credit and never bought above their means. They also didn’t believe in taking government assistance.

So I’m not saying government assistance is bad, just that some people (for whatever reasons) will refuse the help.
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Same as how my parents felt, so does most of the Chinese immigrant of the 60's .They believe in working long hours to support their family.
 
All of you talking about how you would have never taken gov. assistance: You DO realize that wages have not kept up with the cost of living, food, college, etc, right? You are talking about a WAY different time than now.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Same as how my parents felt, so does most of the Chinese immigrant of the 60's .They believe in working long hours to support their family.
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Yes, he is a total A+ personality and a workaholic. His grandfather came to the US, so also 2nd generation born in USA on his dad’s side.
 
soxfan said:
All of you talking about how you would have never taken gov. assistance: You DO realize that wages have not kept up with the cost of living, food, college, etc, right? You are talking about a WAY different time than now.
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Yes, this is true. We are in different times now.
 
Yes and assistance isn’t much when social infrastructure has dilapidated, sky high child care, medical expenses, huge debts for college. Things were different back then.
 
Dancing Fire said:
Same as how my parents felt, so does most of the Chinese immigrant of the 60's .They believe in working long hours to support their family.
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I am a social worker and I am sick of responding to this baloney. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!
 
AGBF said:
I am a social worker and I am sick of responding to this baloney. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!
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Think whatever you want :rolleyes:. FYI, most of us Chinese immigrants from the 60's were too proud to go on welfare. My wife and I was first generation in our families to able to speak english, and our daughter's generation was the first generation in our families to earn a college degrees. All of our nieces and nephews from both side of the family graduated from college, and 6 are working in the medical fields.

It is liberals like you who are holding back young minorities from advancing in education. you would rather see them staying on welfare than to get a good education.
 
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On June 30 there will be rallies sponsored by Families Belong Together all over the country to protest the separation of children from parents. I will definitely be attending. There is one in the town where I live. My only question, now, is whether I want to attend here or go to a neighboring town where I know a friend will be or go into Washington or New York where there will be even more people. I looked not only at the list of all the places where rallies are to be held, but at the guidelines. The rallies are to be peaceful; no civil disobedience is involved. people are encouraged to wear white to stand out.

I am putting up some information and a link.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-afelGq4NIFMSZa1UR6CEGGhzvHjN6CpTLNdaCT-UJM/edit?source=aclu&s=0
 
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