To all the dealers trashing Lab Diamonds

[Chelsea Palmer]

Well, the difference here is, if natural diamonds were 50 times cheaper than lab diamonds; I’d still buy naturals; and if they’re 50 times more expensive, I’d still buy naturals. My reasoning is as follows - the creation of that specific natural stone under the earth happened essentially by “happy accident”, with the specific inclusions and colour determined by the specific trace elements in the area, in conditions that had to persist over millions of years. There is something special to me in something that isn’t created by mechanical precision. It’s totally fine if that’s something you don’t care about, but also, if I want to pay a huge amount of money for it compared to what you paid, that’s my prerogative. And it doesn’t make my decision wrong.

Let me put it this way - I am a collector of Indian textiles (I love traditional fabrics). Traditionally, these are woven and/or embroidered by hand. There is something that is so so beautiful to me about how they are a labour of love, that many people have put their time and heart and soul into creating this piece of clothing. Occasionally they can even have tiny almost imperceptible imperfections which actually make them more beautiful to my eyes.

You can also get machine made fabric, at a fraction of the cost. They may be made of similar raw materials, it’s just a machine that wove or embroidered it, at a fraction of the price. It might also be beautiful in its own right, to many people it would be indistinguishable. I don’t begrudge anyone for buying it. But I don’t really care to own it. The history, the romance of it, its kind of lost for me.

On the flip side there’s some things I don’t care about. I don’t care about cars. They’re just a method of transportation for me. I just want it to have comfortable seats and airbags in case I get into an accident. I don’t fully understand why people pay huge amounts of money, sometimes for pretty much the same spec, because of which car company made it. Or why they want to optimise a spec they’re never going to use (who cares how fast it can theoretically go when you live in a place with speed limits?) but they are enthusiastic about cars. Perhaps the heritage of the brand that made the car matters to them. Perhaps the bragging rights. It’s fine - it’s their life.

Someone else not making the choice you would about labs doesn’t devalue your choice or theirs.

If someone says they prefer an earth diamond because it took millions of years to rise to the surface in order to be mined, OK. Of course it’s their prerogative. That was never in question. It just seems that a lot of people consider lab grown diamonds to not be diamonds. The fact of matter is, whether grown in a lab or mined from the Earth, a diamond is a diamond is a diamond. That was the part I was trying to understand. Why people would consider a diamond, regardless of the source, not to be a diamond.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

What lab grown lovers love about lab growns is that they are cheaper. Period. Then they love that they do not have to disclose natural vs lab. What the diamond industry did wrong is not trademark the term diamond to apply it to only naturals. Idiots.

Where were all the lab grown lovers when the prices were almost comparable to naturals? If lab growns were called by any other name, let’s say, diamonique, I doubt we would have so many diamonique lovers. It’s really not that complicated.

How could someone call a lab grown diamond anything else but a diamond? I don’t think the diamond industry would’ve been able to trademark the name diamond. “Diamond” isn’t a name anyway. It’s a description of a gem. Maybe they could’ve trademarked some other name. But I don’t think they could trademark the word “diamond”

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Exactly. I for myself can't unterstand why people pay a lot of money for a car. Why? Because a car is nothing I have much interest in. A car enthusiast wouldn't unterstand why I don't really care if my car is old, new, nice or ugly. And so

Exactly. I for myself can't unterstand why people pay a lot of money for a car. Why? Because a car is nothing I have much interest in. A car enthusiast wouldn't unterstand why I don't really care if my car is old, new, nice or ugly. And so be it.

With all due respect, I don’t think that analogy is quite the same. Yes some people wanna top of the line BMW, and others are se with a Honda Civic.

Exactly. I for myself can't unterstand why people pay a lot of money for a car. Why? Because a car is nothing I have much interest in. A car enthusiast wouldn't unterstand why I don't really care if my car is old, new, nice or ugly. And so be

Exactly. I for myself can't unterstand why people pay a lot of money for a car. Why? Because a car is nothing I have much interest in. A car enthusiast wouldn't unterstand why I don't really care if my car is old, new, nice or ugly. And so be it.

Except that some people spend a lot of money for a BMW, and others spend much less for a Honda Civic. Both are cars, but they’re not the same. And there are good quality diamonds and poor-quality diamonds. But to compare apples to apples, you would have to take two stones with virtually identical specs, and look at the cost difference between an LGD versus an earth one. The same really can’t be said for a car. If you want the top-of-the-line BMW, there’s really no choice there. If you want an internally flawless, D-colored 1-carat diamond, you now have a choice how to procure that diamond.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

If someone says they prefer an earth diamond because it took millions of years to rise to the surface in order to be mined, OK. Of course it’s their prerogative. That was never in question. It just seems that a lot of people consider lab grown diamonds to not be diamonds. The fact of matter is, whether grown in a lab or mined from the Earth, a diamond is a diamond is a diamond. That was the part I was trying to understand. Why people would consider a diamond, regardless of the source, not to be a diamond.

I think when people say they don’t consider lab grown diamonds to be diamonds, what they mean is not denying that it is the same carbon form as a natural diamond out of the earth; everyone understands that chemically they are the same (or almost exactly the same enough that most are indistinguishable to the naked eye; odd tints or striations notwithstanding).

But what they mean is, the magic, the je nai se quoi that makes diamonds so special to them; exists in natural diamonds but does not exist in lab grown diamonds. For them. I feel that way, so I get it. For me the natural/provenance aspect is most of the allure. If you gave me an identical lab diamond to my natural and paid me exactly what I paid for my natural diamond to boot I still wouldn’t take it. Or I’d take it if I wanted to offload my natural, but I likely wouldn’t wear the lab. That is just ME. I just wouldn’t buy a lab diamond. I don’t see the point. Yes it’s shiny and sparkly and pretty but it doesn’t evoke rhe same feeling for me. I don’t know how else to explain it. Maybe for you the natural diamond doesn’t evoke any emotion and labs fascinate you and make you feel a certain way. Perhaps because it’s a reminder of mankind’s ingenuity. So you would never go for a natural. That’s fine - totally your perspective.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Dear Texas Leaguer, I think your last paragraph pretty much summed up what I’m trying to say. It’s my understanding that lab diamonds are not reproductions.

In both HPHT and CVD synthetic diamonds a diamond seed crystal is used to train the carbon atoms where to deposit themselves. In a sense this is a reproduction.

In fact, one of the quality factors in how good these reproductions are is the quality of the starting seed plate.

 

[Roselina]

With all due respect, I don’t think that analogy is quite the same. Yes some people wanna top of the line BMW, and others are se with a Honda Civic.




Except that some people spend a lot of money for a BMW, and others spend much less for a Honda Civic. Both are cars, but they’re not the same. And there are good quality diamonds and poor-quality diamonds. But to compare apples to apples, you would have to take two stones with virtually identical specs, and look at the cost difference between an LGD versus an earth one. The same really can’t be said for a car. If you want the top-of-the-line BMW, there’s really no choice there. If you want an internally flawless, D-colored 1-carat diamond, you now have a choice how to procure that diamond.

I didn't compare the two. I meant: Just as you don't understand why people pay so much more for a natural diamond if they could have it cheaper, I for example don't understand why people spend so much money on a car. For me a car is a car. For others it's important to be a certain car, for example a Mercedes. For you a diamond is a diamond, for me it is not. For me a natural diamond differs from a lab diamond for certain reasons, which are important to me and just me, even if they look the same and are of the same material. So I can relate to what you wrote.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I think when people say they don’t consider lab grown diamonds to be diamonds, what they mean is not denying that it is the same carbon form as a natural diamond out of the earth; everyone understands that chemically they are the same (or almost exactly the same enough that most are indistinguishable to the naked eye; odd tints or striations notwithstanding).

But what they mean is, the magic, the je nai se quoi that makes diamonds so special to them; exists in natural diamonds but does not exist in lab grown diamonds. For them. I feel that way, so I get it. For me the natural/provenance aspect is most of the allure. If you gave me an identical lab diamond to my natural and paid me exactly what I paid for my natural diamond to boot I still wouldn’t take it. Or I’d take it if I wanted to offload my natural, but I likely wouldn’t wear the lab. That is just ME. I just wouldn’t buy a lab diamond. I don’t see the point. Yes it’s shiny and sparkly and pretty but it doesn’t evoke rhe same feeling for me. I don’t know how else to explain it. Maybe for you the natural diamond doesn’t evoke any emotion and labs fascinate you and make you feel a certain way. Perhaps because it’s a reminder of mankind’s ingenuity. So you would never go for a natural. That’s fine - totally your perspective.

I have a natural diamond. My original engagement ring is natural diamond. But I would never have purchased it if labs had existed back then though. I have no fascination whatsoever with lab diamonds. I love sparkly diamonds, regardless of the source. I just was trying to get someone, anyone, to explain why a diamond grown in a lab is not a diamond. So far I’ve gotten a lot of
“ it’s the allure of coming from the Earth” responses. Which doesn’t answer my original question, but after all this time, I don’t think anyone will.

 

[DejaWiz]

In both HPHT and CVD synthetic diamonds a diamond seed crystal is used to train the carbon atoms where to deposit themselves. In a sense this is a reproduction.

Exactly! This is why they are correctly categorized as "synthetic" diamonds, per the definitions of the words synthesis and synthetic.

From the Cambridge Dictionary:

synthesis
noun
/ˈsɪn.θə.sɪs/ uk /ˈsɪn.θə.sɪs/
synthesis noun (CHEMICAL PRODUCTION)
[ U ] chemistry specialized
the production of a substance from simpler materials after a chemical reaction

synthetic
noun [ C ]
/sɪnˈθetɪk/ us
an artificial substance or material:
Man-made gem products are known as synthetics.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Exactly! This is why they are correctly categorized as "synthetic" diamonds, per the definitions of the words synthesis and synthetic.

From the Cambridge Dictionary:

synthesis
noun
/ˈsɪn.θə.sɪs/ uk /ˈsɪn.θə.sɪs/
synthesis noun (CHEMICAL PRODUCTION)
[ U ] chemistry specialized
the production of a substance from simpler materials after a chemical reaction

synthetic
noun [ C ]
/sɪnˈθetɪk/ us
an artificial substance or material:
Man-made gem products are known as synthetics.

“the production of a substance from simpler materials after a chemical reaction.” Is that not similar to how diamonds from the Earth are formed? I know very little about the science of diamond formation. As far as the definition of synthetic, so the diamonds grown in labs are artificial diamonds? Is that what this means?

 

[DejaWiz]

“the production of a substance from simpler materials after a chemical reaction.” Is that not similar to how diamonds from the Earth are formed? I know very little about the science of diamond formation. As far as the definition of synthetic, so the diamonds grown in labs are artificial diamonds? Is that what this means?

No, not artificial...synthetic. A diamond that was synthesized by humans using equipment that creates a controlled environment which produces the correct desired outcome: gemstone quality diamond rough.

 

[Roselina]

I have a natural diamond. My original engagement ring is natural diamond. But I would never have purchased it if labs had existed back then though. I have no fascination whatsoever with lab diamonds. I love sparkly diamonds, regardless of the source. I just was trying to get someone, anyone, to explain why a diamond grown in a lab is not a diamond. So far I’ve gotten a lot of
“ it’s the allure of coming from the Earth” responses. Which doesn’t answer my original question, but after all this time, I don’t think anyone will.

Both are diamonds. One is created in the earth, one in the lab. For some this makes a difference for others not. It's individual.

 

[Roselina]

I have a natural diamond. My original engagement ring is natural diamond. But I would never have purchased it if labs had existed back then though. I have no fascination whatsoever with lab diamonds. I love sparkly diamonds, regardless of the source. I just was trying to get someone, anyone, to explain why a diamond grown in a lab is not a diamond. So far I’ve gotten a lot of
“ it’s the allure of coming from the Earth” responses. Which doesn’t answer my original question, but after all this time, I don’t think anyone will.

What is your reason you would not have bought your natural stone if labs had existed then?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

No, not artificial...synthetic. A diamond that was synthesized by humans using equipment that creates a controlled environment which produces the correct desired outcome: gemstone quality diamond rough.

So even though the definition states “an artificial substance or material”, lab diamonds are not, in fact, artificial? Because I didn’t think they were but that definition gave me pause.

 

[DejaWiz]

So even though the definition states “an artificial substance or material”, lab diamonds are not, in fact, artificial? Because I didn’t think they were but that definition gave me pause.

There are multiple meanings to the word "synthetic" based on context and usage which is why there is an entirely separate definition entry specifically pertaining to gemstones, which is the one that I posted in my earlier reply.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

What is your reason you would not have bought your natural stone if labs had existed then?

My original diamond, which is lovely, is 1.5 carats. G color round solitaire. Very good polish and symmetry. Table and depth not ideal, but I guess good enough because the stone always looks great to me It was $12,000. I just purchased a 2-carat D color round solitaire with excellent polish and symmetry, and all the zeroes that AGS can assign, for $1100. Don’t know much about the Holloway cut advisor, but my new diamond looked great in that also. The lab I just purchased is stunning. That’s the only way to describe it. The other one is beautiful too, but this one is bigger and brighter and better cut, and cost 1/10 of my original diamond cost. That is the ONLY reason I would never have purchased a natural stone if there was the option to buy lab diamonds 22 years ago when I became engaged. It’s as simple as that. That’s the ONLY factor.

 

[Roselina]

My original diamond, which is lovely, is 1.5 carats. G color round solitaire. Very good polish and symmetry. Table and depth not ideal, but I guess good enough because the stone always looks great to me It was $12,000. I just purchased a 2-carat D color round solitaire with excellent polish and symmetry, and all the zeroes that AGS can assign, for $1100. Don’t know much about the Holloway cut advisor, but my new diamond looked great in that also. The lab I just purchased is stunning. That’s the only way to describe it. The other one is beautiful too, but this one is bigger and brighter and better cut, and cost 1/10 of my original diamond cost. That is the ONLY reason I would never have purchased a natural stone if there was the option to buy lab diamonds 22 years ago when I became engaged. It’s as simple as that. That’s the ONLY factor.

For you, (local) provenance is not a criterion when making a purchase, but other things are more important to you (in this case perfection and a good price). For others, provenance is a criterion, but others may be less important (for example, perfection). That's a good thing. Everyone is different.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

For you, (local) provenance is not a criterion when making a purchase, but other things are more important to you (in this case perfection and a good price). For others, provenance is a criterion, but others may be less important (for example, perfection). That's a good thing. Everyone is different.

Yes, it’s wonderful that we’re all different, and it’s great that we are entitled to our opinions. We already know these facts. Again, I was more asking why folks don’t consider a diamond created in a lab to be a diamond. Like I said, I got a lot of responses alluding to “billions of years” but I’m not sure I got any concrete responses to why one would not consider a diamond grown in a lab to be a diamond. I wasn’t really asking about preference I don’t think.

 

[Roselina]

Yes, it’s wonderful that we’re all different, and it’s great that we are entitled to our opinions. We already know these facts. Again, I was more asking why folks don’t consider a diamond created in a lab to be a diamond. Like I said, I got a lot of responses alluding to “billions of years” but I’m not sure I got any concrete responses to why one would not consider a diamond grown in a lab to be a diamond. I wasn’t really asking about preference I don’t think.

I really don't get you. Almost everyone agreed to a lab diamond indeed being a diamond. You then couldn't understand why one would - in that case - buy a natural diamond instead of a lab diamond. We then simply explained why we would. That's all.

 

[Bonfire]

For the love of all things holy, your questions have been answered, repeatedly.

Why you ponder how others spend money is irrelevant. Whether it makes sense to you or not. It’s not for you to judge why others choose natural over synthetic. It’s been explained ad nauseam.
Please enjoy your diamond ring, we are happy for you!

 

[DejaWiz]

Chelsea Palmer I think your inquiry would be better served as a new thread you should create over in the LGD subforum: you will get much more LGD-centric feedback and answers there from both LGD and/or Natural diamond lovers:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/lab-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/post-thread

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

A lab diamond is a diamond, period. Can we get back to cars?
From a famiy of gearheads, my father couldn't look at his 356 or Boxster without a passionate appreciation of all the engineers and mechanics who put the best work of their lives into those cars. A Jaguar XKE that works properly and doesn't strand you, nothing like it. Forgive my flawed analogy but some things that are beautifully made but flawed (included) have value to certain people because there aren't that many of them.
(I drive a Honda Insight.)

 

[DejaWiz]

A lab diamond is a diamond, period. Can we get back to cars?
From a family of gearheads, my father couldn't look at his 356 or Boxster without a passionate appreciation of all the engineers and mechanics who put the best work of their lives into those cars. A Jaguar XKE that works properly and doesn't strand you, nothing like it. Forgive my flawed analogy but some things that are beautifully made but flawed (included) have value to certain people because there aren't that many of them.
(I drive a Honda Insight.)

I, too, am a gearhead and know exactly the cars that you've mentioned...and your listed quirks about each of those is very INSIGHT-ful.

 

[lulu_ma]

Chelsea Palmer I think your inquiry would be better served as a new thread you should create over in the LGD subforum: you will get much more LGD-centric feedback and answers there from both LGD and/or Natural diamond lovers:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/forums/lab-grown-diamonds-man-made-diamonds-mmd.60/post-thread

@DejaWiz to be fair, a few people on this thread have both natural and lab diamonds. It's not the topic that people have an issue with, it's more the tone and repetitive nature of the inquiries.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I really don't get you. Almost everyone agreed to a lab diamond indeed being a diamond. You then couldn't understand why one would - in that case - buy a natural diamond instead of a lab diamond. We then simply explained why we would. That's all.

Dear Roselina. Perhaps I got more focused on the posts where people said they feel like it would be costume jewelry. That’s the part I just can’t wrap my head around.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

A lab diamond is a diamond, period. Can we get back to cars?
From a famiy of gearheads, my father couldn't look at his 356 or Boxster without a passionate appreciation of all the engineers and mechanics who put the best work of their lives into those cars. A Jaguar XKE that works properly and doesn't strand you, nothing like it. Forgive my flawed analogy but some things that are beautifully made but flawed (included) have value to certain people because there aren't that many of them.
(I drive a Honda Insight.)

You can’t get a Jaguar XKE from a lab. I think that’s what the difference is here. There’s only one Jaguar XKE. And same for your father’s boxster. My lab diamond, by the way is beautifully made. Or at least beautifully cut and polished. The result is beautiful anyway. I’m not sure natural diamonds are beautifully made. They’re beautiful also of course, but are they beautifully made? The vehicles you describe sound like they are beautifully made. I think that’s also a difference.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

From JCK online: Signet Jewelers sees significant potential in lab-created diamond fashion, as customers seek “bolder” looks at lower price points, CEO J.K. Symancyk told an audience of business analysts on Jan. 14 at the ICR Conference in Orlando, Fla.
"Fashion." I've never heard of lab diamond jewery being described as costume. My lab earrings are certainly not costume.
Tomato, tomahto, perhaps.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

@DejaWiz to be fair, a few people on this thread have both natural and lab diamonds. It's not the topic that people have an issue with, it's more the tone and repetitive nature of the inquiries.

And that’s only because I have yet to find the answer I’m seeking! What I do wonder though, is for the people that are offended, why do they keep responding? Just don’t answer me then.

 

[DejaWiz]

And that’s only because I have yet to find the answer I’m seeking! What I do wonder though, is for the people that are offended, why do they keep responding? Just don’t answer me then.

There has been a plethora of answers that you've received from many that offered their own subjective takes and viewpoints.
Which objective answer are you specifically looking for?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

From JCK online: Signet Jewelers sees significant potential in lab-created diamond fashion, as customers seek “bolder” looks at lower price points, CEO J.K. Symancyk told an audience of business analysts on Jan. 14 at the ICR Conference in Orlando, Fla.
"Fashion." I've never heard of lab diamond jewery being described as costume. My lab earrings are certainly not costume.
Tomato, tomahto, perhaps.

I don’t know what they mean by “fashion”either, and I’ve never visited a Jewelry website or consulted with a jeweler who referred to lab diamonds as costume. Likely because they’re not costume. They’re diamonds. Sourced differently than being extracted from the Earth, but diamonds nevertheless. But there’s plenty of folks on Pricescope who have.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Who have what? I'm sorry, I missed something.