To all the dealers trashing Lab Diamonds

[MissGotRocks]

Sometimes over a certain amount of $$$.

Well, I could certainly understand a very large purchase I guess - particularly if a credit limit on a card would be exceeded.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Well, I could certainly understand a very large purchase I guess - particularly if a credit limit on a card would be exceeded.

Also true that whatever "cash": discount is offered...on higher amounts the actual savings become much more important.
ie, 5% of $2500=$125, 5% of $25k=$1250

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Ugliness isn't good no matter where it crops up.

I'm someone who prefers natural, earth-made diamonds. And as such, I've received tons and tons of abuse from people who are invested in lab diamonds. Been called terrible names, etc, for my own feelings that I view lab diamonds as costume jewelry. These are my own personal feelings, not directed at anyone else, and most of the time kept to myself unless specifically asked. If you love labs, wonderful, buy and wear lab diamonds proudly! I'm happy for you. You do you, I'lll do me. But it doesn't end there. If I don't LOVE someone else's lab diamonds, if I don't think they are equal to mine (which I don't) then I'm labeled a monster. The thought police come after me!!! I am told to "stay silent".

Even though I know that @Rockdiamond dislikes political correctness, or "wokeness", as do I, to me, his initial post reeks of it. So what if some people don't believe lab diamonds are equal to earth-mined? Who cares! Don't be a snowflake. You do you. There's certainly money to be made in lab diamonds, so smile and stick to your convictions and proudly sell your diamonds. You'll be a rich man (or woman for the females in the business).

But don't beat people over the head that they must think like you. And if anyone here truly believes that people with other opinions should stay silent, then perhaps a democracy isn't a good fit for you.

It makes me vey sad and very tired that in America today if someone has a different view, they are denigrated and raked over the coals. People are terrified to speak their minds, say their opinions, and sometimes even merely exist if they are different than what is in vogue at the moment.

Why is it that you don’t believe lab diamonds are equal to earth-mined diamonds? What is it about the science that makes you feel that way? Why do you view lab grown diamonds as costume jewelry?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Something tells me a lot of upper class individuals are gladly (quietly) buying lab diamond engagement rings/jewelry, or will be very soon. But the industry is pressuring the middle and lower socioeconomic classes to "prove their love/self worth" by sticking to mined diamonds.

This is what's been happening in the "luxury" designer handbag world. Poorer folks are going into debt to appear wealthy because of pressure from the advertisers. The lower and middle class are targeted by these ads, not the upper class. They're too smart to fall for this advertising, and have nothing to prove anyway.

Except that a luxury bag is a luxury bag. There is no alternative to a luxury bag. A knock-off luxury bag is not identical to a luxury bag.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Hi,
I think we ought to be prepared for the competitors EMD vs LGD to point out differences anywhere they can. The EMD people have a large investment at stake. Can you blame them?
Rockdiamnd, you said Rappaport has not changed his prices on diamonds for the last three months. So, I checked, not Rappaport but those diamond stats I like to look at from Pricescope. The 1-2 carat categories have increased in price thru Dec1. The surprise to me is that 3 and 4 cwt stones have fallen in Nov 12% and in Oct 8%. This is exactly the opposite of what I expected. So Rappaport may be correct.

In my news feed there was an article of what happened to rising diamond prices during the pandemic. Inflation and all the other events caused diamond prices to increase 25%. Texas Leaguer Justifies the increase by fails to account for why White Flashes prices seem to me to have gone up 100%, I suspect that now that white flash has a jewelry store that opened recently, it now has costs associated with this newer venture that must be met and so increases diamond prices under te guise of inflation and supply problems. Who believes there are supply problems.? With increases like these the lab diamond market can flourish. It is the opening needed, but the EMD dealers have contributed to this immensely. I don't think you can shut the barn door anymore.
I say face it, Lab diamonds are a good alternative They may continue to fall in price but they look great. No need to disparage anyone who chooses either.

It pains me to say this, but I think White flash is very overpriced and you experts should branch out to find new choices for consumers. They are getting rich off of you. IMO..

Annette

You said lab-grown diamonds are a good alternative. A good alternative to what? Perhaps cubic zirconia could be a good alternative, presumably to diamonds, but what is a lab grown diamond a good alternative for?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Agree. But also, do not discount the many who suddenly find themselves heirs to grandma’s pieces and have the prudence to get appraisals. What other item worn over a lifetime still has any monetary value?

I don’t understand. What’s the point of getting an appraisal? Do you mean for insurance purposes?

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Except that a luxury bag is a luxury bag. There is no alternative to a luxury bag. A knock-off luxury bag is not identical to a luxury bag.

What if you have to send it to a lab to tell the difference?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

@nala, you post reminded me of something my 18 year old said to me when I asked her which she preferred lab or earth. To my surprise she said earth. When I asked why, she said it had to work harder. It stuck. And it’s exactly what you said.

A lot of people do not appreciate what comes too easily.

Helps me understand my own thinking.

What does your daughter mean by “it” had to work harder? What is “it”?

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

What if you have to send it to a lab to tell the difference?

Well, then, a lab would determine that the knock-off luxury bag was a knock-off. If what you’re saying is that if it looks identical and only a “lab” would be able to tell the difference, that still wouldn’t make a knock-off the real thing. A diamond is a diamond. That’s what seems to be the part that a lot of folks don’t understand.

 

[Bron357]

If you want a clear / white gemstone you have lots of choices.
However hardness and dispersion differ greatly.
My favourite diamond alternative is Strontium Titanate. It has the most insane dispersion, like Sphene does, but scores low on hardness so not good in a ring. It is found naturally, tiny, but for jewellery it’s lab grown.
CZ for a long time was a popular diamond alternative though again its hardness meant it didnt wear well long term in bracelets or rings and its “whiteness” was somewhat “soulless” in my opinion.
Then you have Zircon, again great dispersion but prone to chipping and lower hardness again a negative for ring or bracelet use.
Sapphire and Topaz, natural or lab, have better hardness but low dispersion. So they tend to look great for about seconds after cleaning.
Moissanite was a Great Leap Forward in the diamond alternative market. It had great hardness unlike CZ and also great dispersion, actually better than diamond, the downside being its double refractive nature.
Lab diamonds like natural diamonds are the hardest gemstone.
As with all things it’s personal choice and what gems / jewellery mean to you.
Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else, others loathe the human and environmental toll behind mined gems and will choose lab grown every time.
Others have a preference for alternate gemstones be that natural or a lab grown equivalent.
Some people are happy to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a single perfect gem, others prefer to spread their money around more pieces and other others spend not at all.
I think it’s great that people have choice and there’s a price point to suit most budget and it’s not about what’s best or better, it’s what you want /prefer for yourself and being happy about your choice without needing to justify it to anyone else ever.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Well, then, a lab would determine that the knock-off luxury bag was a knock-off. If what you’re saying is that if it looks identical and only a “lab” would be able to tell the difference, that still wouldn’t make a knock-off the real thing. A diamond is a diamond. That’s what seems to be the part that a lot of folks don’t understand.

Until people start to understand that a diamond is a diamond, regardless of whether it was mined from the Earth versus created in a lab, just like ice is ice whether created in your refrigerator or in the tundra, and a baby is a baby whether created via listening to Luther Vandross versus IVF, and a suntan is a suntan whether achieved by going to the Bahamas for two weeks versus laying in a UV tanning booth, there will be this misconception that diamonds grown in a laboratory are not diamonds, despite the fact that, well, they are diamonds. I’m not a businesswoman, but I assume the more people equate mined diamonds as being superior to lab-grown diamonds, DeBeers will be thrilled. In fact, why not go to the Arctic to get your ice? If there’s something about the “allure of nature” that makes folks feel earth-mined diamonds are superior, why not apply that same logic to ice? If you want to get a suntan because you have a special event coming up, and you feel the need to darken your skin for whatever reason, why not book a trip to the Caribbean, instead of going to the local UV tanning booth? Don’t you want the “real” thing? And if you can’t conceive children naturally, why bother with IVF? IVF is not natural.

 

[nala]

Until people start to understand that a diamond is a diamond, regardless of whether it was mined from the Earth versus created in a lab, just like ice is ice whether created in your refrigerator or in the tundra, and a baby is a baby whether created via listening to Luther Vandross versus IVF, and a suntan is a suntan whether achieved by going to the Bahamas for two weeks versus laying in a UV tanning booth, there will be this misconception that diamonds grown in a laboratory are not diamonds, despite the fact that, well, they are diamonds. I’m not a businesswoman, but I assume the more people equate mined diamonds as being superior to lab-grown diamonds, DeBeers will be thrilled. In fact, why not go to the Arctic to get your ice? If there’s something about the “allure of nature” that makes folks feel earth-mined diamonds are superior, why not apply that same logic to ice? If you want to get a suntan because you have a special event coming up, and you feel the need to darken your skin for whatever reason, why not book a trip to the Caribbean, instead of going to the local UV tanning booth? Don’t you want the “real” thing? And if you can’t conceive children naturally, why bother with IVF? IVF is not natural.

An original art piece comes from the source—the artist. One Mona Lisa. ONE Origin. Can be easily replicated with the same materials. Technology can make sure these replicas are identical. People can purchase these replicas and hang them on their walls. Everyone will realize they are ubiquitous and not originals. They can still enjoy them. But a true art collector would dream about owning the real thing. Call those of us who appreciate natural diamonds purists or collectors. And let it go. You obviously will never understand. Some of us can and do appreciate the origin and the source. Tell every comic book collector, first book edition collector, etc. that source and origin do not matter but you will never convince them.

 

[maryjane04]

Until people start to understand that a diamond is a diamond, regardless of whether it was mined from the Earth versus created in a lab, just like ice is ice whether created in your refrigerator or in the tundra, and a baby is a baby whether created via listening to Luther Vandross versus IVF, and a suntan is a suntan whether achieved by going to the Bahamas for two weeks versus laying in a UV tanning booth, there will be this misconception that diamonds grown in a laboratory are not diamonds, despite the fact that, well, they are diamonds. I’m not a businesswoman, but I assume the more people equate mined diamonds as being superior to lab-grown diamonds, DeBeers will be thrilled. In fact, why not go to the Arctic to get your ice? If there’s something about the “allure of nature” that makes folks feel earth-mined diamonds are superior, why not apply that same logic to ice? If you want to get a suntan because you have a special event coming up, and you feel the need to darken your skin for whatever reason, why not book a trip to the Caribbean, instead of going to the local UV tanning booth? Don’t you want the “real” thing? And if you can’t conceive children naturally, why bother with IVF? IVF is not natural.

Some of us care about different things. We're all entitled to our own feelings and opinions. Just as some people love colorless and perfectly cut diamonds, some of us like warm and wonky old cuts. Your examples are a bit extreme.

 

[Starstruck8]

just like ice is ice whether created in your refrigerator or in the tundra

why not apply that same logic to ice?

Well... A bit of searching shows that genuine 100,000-year-old glacial arctic ice is in fact marketed as a luxury product:
https://arcticice.ae/#:~:text=Absolutely.,safety of our iceberg ice.
It seems a bit silly to me, but crazy rich people can spend their money any way they like. And if you spend your money on billion-year-old diamonds, at least they won't melt...

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

I don't think anyone here is saying lab diamonds are not real diamonds, they are and it's beyond dispute. Some of us are in love with the variety of imperfections the earth made, and how they were cut in decades/centuries past.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

If you want a clear / white gemstone you have lots of choices.
However hardness and dispersion differ greatly.
My favourite diamond alternative is Strontium Titanate. It has the most insane dispersion, like Sphene does, but scores low on hardness so not good in a ring. It is found naturally, tiny, but for jewellery it’s lab grown.
CZ for a long time was a popular diamond alternative though again its hardness meant it didnt wear well long term in bracelets or rings and its “whiteness” was somewhat “soulless” in my opinion.
Then you have Zircon, again great dispersion but prone to chipping and lower hardness again a negative for ring or bracelet use.
Sapphire and Topaz, natural or lab, have better hardness but low dispersion. So they tend to look great for about seconds after cleaning.
Moissanite was a Great Leap Forward in the diamond alternative market. It had great hardness unlike CZ and also great dispersion, actually better than diamond, the downside being its double refractive nature.
Lab diamonds like natural diamonds are the hardest gemstone.
As with all things it’s personal choice and what gems / jewellery mean to you.
Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else, others loathe the human and environmental toll behind mined gems and will choose lab grown every time.
Others have a preference for alternate gemstones be that natural or a lab grown equivalent.
Some people are happy to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a single perfect gem, others prefer to spread their money around more pieces and other others spend not at all.
I think it’s great that people have choice and there’s a price point to suit most budget and it’s not about what’s best or better, it’s what you want /prefer for yourself and being happy about your choice without needing to justify it to anyone else ever.

Again, I don’t understand this type of point: “Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else.” Then these same people should be trekking to the Arctic when they need ice for cocktails, since they want things “natural from the ground as nature created.” Refrigerator ice cubes should be beneath them.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

I don't think anyone here is saying lab diamonds are not real diamonds, they are and it's beyond dispute. Some of us are in love with the variety of imperfections the earth made, and how they were cut in decades/centuries past.

Well, the people who are in love with the variety of imperfections ithe Earth made, are clearly not in love with their money. I don’t care how much of it you have. There isn’t an investor on earth who would suggest spending more money for something you could get for significantly less!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Some prefer natural diamonds and others are content with lab diamonds. You are not going to change anyone’s perspective on this issue. I personally have no interest in lab diamonds and that is my prerogative. This has been discussed here for quite some time. People have expressed their feelings but truly owe no one an explanation for their preferences. Dollar amount spent is not the end all, be all to preference. We exist here peacefully and with respect. You are honestly overstepping a bit here. People can earn and spend their money any way they want to - it is time to let it go.

 

[lulu_ma]

Well, the people who are in love with the variety of imperfections ithe Earth made, are clearly not in love with their money. I don’t care how much of it you have. There isn’t an investor on earth who would suggest spending more money for something you could get for significantly less!

@Chelsea Palmer you seem really happy with your lab diamond/s. That is great for you. I am not exactly clear what you are trying to accomplish with all of your posts/ queries. The natural/ lab diamond debate has been raging on for a few years. You aren't telling us anything that we have heard before. Everyone, including you, is entitled to their own opinions without explanation.

Btw, you're on RockyTalky:

RockyTalky (Diamond Discussion)​

The place to be for everything on natural diamonds. Ask for a second opinion, learn about diamond grading (cut, color, clarity, etc), weigh in on pictures and topics, or ask for feedback on your own dream piece. Only mined, natural diamond-related questions and info, please.

 

[maryjane04]

Again, I don’t understand this type of point: “Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else.” Then these same people should be trekking to the Arctic when they need ice for cocktails, since they want things “natural from the ground as nature created.” Refrigerator ice cubes should be beneath them.

Well, the people who are in love with the variety of imperfections ithe Earth made, are clearly not in love with their money. I don’t care how much of it you have. There isn’t an investor on earth who would suggest spending more money for something you could get for significantly less!

Wow this is very narrow minded. So are you saying if you have one designer bag that everything else you own needs to be designer too? People don't collect diamonds like they do ice but maybe some do. If they have the means for it then good on them. So if you could get a 1k car why would you buy a more expensive car? I'm not sure what your point is with these comments.

And if buying lab diamonds are for environmental reasons or cost then do you ride a bike instead of a car or drive an electric vehicle? Is your house a net zero/fully sustainable home? If you made one choice for one thing does it mean it has to be same for others?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

If you want a clear / white gemstone you have lots of choices.
However hardness and dispersion differ greatly.
My favourite diamond alternative is Strontium Titanate. It has the most insane dispersion, like Sphene does, but scores low on hardness so not good in a ring. It is found naturally, tiny, but for jewellery it’s lab grown.
CZ for a long time was a popular diamond alternative though again its hardness meant it didnt wear well long term in bracelets or rings and its “whiteness” was somewhat “soulless” in my opinion.
Then you have Zircon, again great dispersion but prone to chipping and lower hardness again a negative for ring or bracelet use.
Sapphire and Topaz, natural or lab, have better hardness but low dispersion. So they tend to look great for about seconds after cleaning.
Moissanite was a Great Leap Forward in the diamond alternative market. It had great hardness unlike CZ and also great dispersion, actually better than diamond, the downside being its double refractive nature.
Lab diamonds like natural diamonds are the hardest gemstone.
As with all things it’s personal choice and what gems / jewellery mean to you.
Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else, others loathe the human and environmental toll behind mined gems and will choose lab grown every time.
Others have a preference for alternate gemstones be that natural or a lab grown equivalent.
Some people are happy to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a single perfect gem, others prefer to spread their money around more pieces and other others spend not at all.
I think it’s great that people have choice and there’s a price point to suit most budget and it’s not about what’s best or better, it’s what you want /prefer for yourself and being happy about your choice without needing to justify it to anyone else ever.

I prefer Moissanite as a colorless substitute. It is heard and durable enough to be worn every day. It has better dispersion and RI than diamond.
I bought some H&A's 6.5mm = +1ct equivalent 2 years ago at a trade fair for $10 each. They cost more than $1,000 8 years ago and had an ugly green tint.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

PS I see lab diamonds as becoming a Pandora Swarovski and maybe even Tiffany silver gateway product to natural diamonds.
They will bring joy to millions or billions.
But diamonds are never ever going away (dare I say "forever")

 

[Roselina]

Again, I don’t understand this type of point: “Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else.” Then these same people should be trekking to the Arctic when they need ice for cocktails, since they want things “natural from the ground as nature created.” Refrigerator ice cubes should be beneath them.

Your arguments are a bit awkward. If following it this would mean that

Again, I don’t understand this type of point: “Some people only ever want natural from the ground as nature created and nothing else.” Then these same people should be trekking to the Arctic when they need ice for cocktails, since they want things “natural from the ground as nature created.” Refrigerator ice cubes should be beneath them.

Sorry, this went too fast. What I wanted to say: By following your argument (if I love earth minded diamonds, then I must care from where my ice comes from), a lab diamond lover would need to conceive a baby (no matter what) by IVF rather than "naturally" (to stick to your example). See... a bit weird.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Your arguments are a bit awkward. If following it this would mean that


Sorry, this went too fast. What I wanted to say: By following your argument (if I love earth minded diamonds, then I must care from where my ice comes), a lab diamond lover would need to conceive a baby (no matter what) by IVF rather than "naturally" (to stick by your examples). See... a bit weird.

The term Earth Mined was invented by some lab diamond marketers. Gemmologically and Geologically speaking, the term has always been Natural.
But love the IVF analogy

 

[Roselina]

The term Earth Mined was invented by some lab diamond marketers. Gemmologically and Geologically speaking, the term has always been Natural.
But love the IVF analogy

Thank you! Good to know! I will refer to natural diamonds from now on. I love natural diamonds because I find it incredible what our earth can produce. This is my motivation to by them. Probably also the reason I love things like strong fluorescence and such. My sister in law is totally into lab diamonds. Science is not her fields, her motivation is to have a beautiful diamond. I find that great. Who cares what one's motivation is. We often sit togehter and admire the sparkle.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Thank you! Good to know! I will refer to natural diamonds from now on. I love natural diamonds because I find it incredible what our earth can produce. This is my motivation to by them. Probably also the reason I love things like strong fluorescence and such. My sister in law is totally into lab diamonds. Science is not her fields, her motivation is to have a beautiful diamond. I find that great. Who cares what one's motivation is. We often sit togehter and admire the sparkle.

Choice is a great thing. We love in fortunate times!

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Your arguments are a bit awkward. If following it this would mean that


Sorry, this went too fast. What I wanted to say: By following your argument (if I love earth minded diamonds, then I must care from where my ice comes from), a lab diamond lover would need to conceive a baby (no matter what) by IVF rather than "naturally" (to stick to your example). See... a bit weird.

Good, valid point. I guess I’m still just not understanding WHY people say they love eartH-mined diamonds. What is it? It can’t be because they’re billions of years old. I understand diamonds take just as long to form in the Earth as they do in a lab, and that it takes billions of years for earthquakes to bring them to the surface. But so what? Even if they did take billions of years? I don’t understand why that’s a reason to say someone “loves” them.

 

[maryjane04]

Good, valid point. I guess I’m still just not understanding WHY people say they love eartH-mined diamonds. What is it? It can’t be because they’re billions of years old. I understand diamonds take just as long to form in the Earth as they do in a lab, and that it takes billions of years for earthquakes to bring them to the surface. But so what? Even if they did take billions of years? I don’t understand why that’s a reason to say someone “loves” them.

Same could be said as to why you love lab diamonds. It really comes down to preferences. Also natural diamonds do take billions of years but lab diamonds do not. I am guessing you don't like anything with history or provenance which is probably why you find it hard to understand. But regardless everyone is entitled to be happy with their diamonds regardless of their origin.

 

[Roselina]

Good, valid point. I guess I’m still just not understanding WHY people say they love eartH-mined diamonds. What is it? It can’t be because they’re billions of years old. I understand diamonds take just as long to form in the Earth as they do in a lab, and that it takes billions of years for earthquakes to bring them to the surface. But so what? Even if they did take billions of years? I don’t understand why that’s a reason to say someone “loves” them.

I love the science behind the process. Not the man-made but the earth-made. I think it is absolutely incredible what beauty our plant holds. Something that grows naturally and not in a lab.

 

[Chelsea Palmer]

Same could be said as to why you love lab diamonds. It really comes down to preferences. Also natural diamonds do take billions of years but lab diamonds do not. I am guessing you don't like anything with history or provenance which is probably why you find it hard to understand. But regardless everyone is entitled to be happy with their diamonds regardless of their origin.

Exactly. I certainly don’t think I’m smarter than anybody. I’m just trying to understand the logic. I don’t love lab diamonds. I love diamonds, period. So people prefer earth-mined diamonds because after they form, which,from what I understand takes a couple of weeks, it takes billions of years for them to become mineable? And that’s why people prefer a diamond from the Earth? That’s the reason?