Trade Participation on Pricescope

[Sparkler1999]

Edited by - PS Admin

All posts by this previously banned poster (isabella) have been removed and all responses to it to keep things on topic.

I apologize to all that have taken the time to make a response to her.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Kenny, I see you’ve complained a few times on this thread about RockDiamond having his business link in his signature line, for example

<snip> which keeps his sigline's link to his sales website in front of more eyeballs.

and

Maybe I'd talk to him after he deleted his sales link for, say, a year.

The suggestion by Kenny is not a change to general policy related to all vendors. It is related to Garry's enforcement of policy rules suggestion:

"Issue frequent and reasonable punishments e.g. ban consumers and non paying vendors for 1, 2, 3 days, a week, or a month, or a year. Give reasons publicly unless there is some powerful reason not to."

What Kenny is suggesting is that vendors who break forum policy rules should not be allowed theright of free promotional benefit. One of the ways this can be achieved is by removing their ability to mention their business name or website link in their signature or posts for a period of time.

A locked signature line stating, I am a trademember who has broken PS community rules for self promotion or X so my signature has been removed for Y days will certainly do the trick (maybe a bit harsh but better than banning).

Lets keep this topic on track and about general policies not make it about one vendor.

 

[kenny]

What Kenny is suggesting is that vendors who break forum policy rules should not be allowed the right of free promotional benefit. One of the ways this can be achieved is by removing their ability to mention their business name or website link in their signature or posts for a period of time.

A locked signature line stating, I am a trademember who has broken PS community rules for self promotion or X so my signature has been removed for Y days will certainly do the trick (maybe a bit harsh but better than banning).

Lets keep this topic on track and about general policies not make it about one vendor.

This.
It seemed so obvious as not not require a response, but I guess not.
My apologies.

 

[Matata]

Good suggestions for improvement so far. Remember that changes don't have to be permanent and could be done on a trial basis. Probably wouldn't hurt to add a civility code to the list of rules. In addition, perhaps identifying some assumptions about PS and those who use it may help revision of the rules.

Some of my assumptions are:

--professionals are here to educate consumers and develop clients.
--consumers are here to get educated and perhaps make purchases and maybe purchase from PS vendors.
--there are consumers: to whom the technical information is paramount;
who care nothing about technie info;
who want to be told what to buy;
who want to learn enough to make their own decisions.
--not everyone likes ideal cut diamonds.
--mods will ensure fairness & keep things civil.

Whether there are revisions to the rules or not, I believe PS needs more moderators to keep discussions on track & civil

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Improve the Search Tool

1) Allow Boolean Searches that work.

corundum AND synthetic in subject or text

combined with

Author

Michael_E OR Richard Wise

2) Make sure sorting posts by date works (Some are listed as 1969).

3) Make sure that all posts are properly indexed and searchable from the basic initial search which is easy to find.

4) Make a quick and easy search bar in the post message box with a one liner:
Have you check the archives to see if your question(s) you are posting have already been answered?
Then allow a search right on that page prior to hitting the submit button.

Pros:

Duplicated Questions will be less frequent
The community will find it easier to search for the material they are looking for
Community members will feel their posts carry more weight as they are easier to find in future

Cons:

The database will have to be properly indexed or reindexed
More coding time and effort on the backend and on the frontend making searches more accessible and more frequent

 

[Rockdiamond]

While I agree that improvement in search functionality is a good thing- I also believe that a new discussion- even on an oft discussed issue, as opposed to simply referring people to a previous thread, is more attractive to some consumers.
It also keeps the forum more lively with new discussion.

For example- I recently bought a new car, and of course found the appropriate forum to ask some questions in my shopping- and also after I'd gotten it.
When I asked something that had been asked many times before, the first response was to send me to another thread.
I very much more appreciated when my question was answered specifically- which it subsequently was.

 

[kenny]

Good suggestions for improvement so far. Remember that changes don't have to be permanent and could be done on a trial basis. Probably wouldn't hurt to add a civility code to the list of rules. In addition, perhaps identifying some assumptions about PS and those who use it may help revision of the rules.

Some of my assumptions are:

--professionals are here to educate consumers and develop clients.
--consumers are here to get educated and perhaps make purchases and maybe purchase from PS vendors.
--there are consumers: to whom the technical information is paramount;
who care nothing about technie info;
who want to be told what to buy;
who want to learn enough to make their own decisions.
--not everyone likes ideal cut diamonds.
--mods will ensure fairness & keep things civil.

Whether there are revisions to the rules or not, I believe PS needs more moderators to keep discussions on track & civil

I agree with everything you wrote but I believe it all either goes without saying or is already in the guidelines.
Just saying.

 

[denverappraiser]

I don’t see a problem with allowing vendors promotional benefit for their efforts. Indeed, I think it’s a LARGE portion they participate at all. *IF* dealer participation is desirable, this is part of the cost. The commercial payoff to me, for example, is almost entirely in the link at the bottom of my posts. Hopefully potential clients will see something I wrote, decide that this guy seems to be smart and that my services might be applicable to what they’re doing, and they click through that link to find where I am, what I charge, how to contact me etc. These are all things that I'm forbidden to include in the text because of the self-promotion rules but that are effectively included because of that link. Without that, I probably wouldn’t be here. It’s entirely up to the admins how they want things to evolve but I’m confident that I’m far from the only trade member in this situation.

RE: Pictures
Pictures are cool. They make the discussions more interesting and are often mandatory for the discussion at hand.
Good pictures are surprisingly difficult to do and in nearly every case the vendors are better at it than the consumers. Usually by a lot. This includes not only the technical type things but also the ‘glamour’ shots to show off a cool piece, the faceup diamond pics, ASET and IS images, CAD renderings and others.
Pictures are, usually, the intellectual property of the person who took them (or their employer), not the person who posted them or even the person who bought the item. A watermark is entirely appropriate.
Pictures, especially good ones, DO make good advertisements.

The reason for restrictions on the watermarks had to do with pictures in the ‘show me the ring’ forum that were becoming increasingly overt advertisements. The vendors would, quite reasonably, provide their customers with a nice photo of their new purchase so they could show off their new purchase to their friends and SMTR would fill up with these pics. Also not surprisingly, the vendors would like the friends of their customers to know where it came from so the watermark would contain things like their URL address. It’s the same reason that jewelers print their name inside the lid of ring boxes. The idea was that the advertising content like who made the piece or who took the picture already appears in the accompanying text and that these advertisements made the whole forum cheesy. Perhaps this should be reconsidered.

Sales images, like ASET, IS, faceup and even certificate scans are one of the primary competitive issues here and the vendors work hard at producing them well and in a way that makes their goods attractive. The exact procedures are closely held trade secrets and 99% of the jewelers out there suck at it. If I were advising a new vendor (or even some of the old ones) about advertising here, this is the #1 area I would recommend they work on. More and better images on their website I think will translate directly into better results from their advertising dollars spent here. The issue here is not if PS should be penalizing the folks who do this well but rather to what extent there should be a penalty for those who don’t. The default is a significant competitive advantage to this particular skill set. It’s worth noting that this different from skill at making quality pieces, choosing excellent diamonds, selling things for reasonable prices, working quickly, helping make it a happy shopping experience etc. Perhaps that’s ok, the marketplace is what it is and it seems to be working, so maybe it’s best to leave it alone but it’s critical to the question at hand and it leads back to the question of the strategic vision for Pricescope. If you don’t know where you’re going it’s hard to tell if you’re lost.

 

[Matata]

I agree with everything you wrote but I believe it all either goes without saying or is already in the guidelines.
Just saying.

However, my first two assumptions speak directly to Denverappraisers post above regarding pictures, watermarks, and whether that provides unfair advertising advantage to some vendors.

 

[risingsun]

In the real world, we receive consequences as a result of our actions. If trades people and posters continually exhibit poor forum behavior without consequences, they learn that they can do more of the same. No action to stop the behavior, on the part of the site, appears to be tantamount to tacit approval. I believe we must do more to curtail the actions of people who behave like playground bullies. If this doesn't happen, we enable them to continue to attack. mock and, generally, develop an arrogance that is unhealthy for all concerned. I would like to see something along the lines of a panic button. When a poster starts a thread that has gone really toxic, they have the ability to stop it. I am not referring to spirited debate or being overly PC. I am talking about some level of civility. If I came upon PS at this point in time, I don't know if would I join. I might lurk, get the information I needed and leave.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I don’t see a problem with allowing vendors promotional benefit for their efforts. Indeed, I think it’s a LARGE portion they participate at all. *IF* dealer participation is desirable, this is part of the cost. The commercial payoff to me, for example, is almost entirely in the link at the bottom of my posts. Hopefully potential clients will see something I wrote, decide that this guy seems to be smart and that my services might be applicable to what they’re doing, and they click through that link to find where I am, what I charge, how to contact me etc. These are all things that I'm forbidden to include in the text because of the self-promotion rules but that are effectively included because of that link. Without that, I probably wouldn’t be here. It’s entirely up to the admins how they want things to evolve but I’m confident that I’m far from the only trade member in this situation.

.

Neil (And Dave Atlas) there was an issue some 2 years back when Rich mentioned that the consumer should send a setone to an appraiser. Rich was sent an Admin warning and there was a big behind the scenes debate about that.
It became apparent that the rules were aministered a little to tough. Rich got upset and the whole thing was bad.

I think Admin is now a lot more flexible inb that regard.
There is also a move afoot to reward frequent posting appraisers because of the vast knowledge and experiance they bring to the board.
Suggestions please?

And on that track Neil, we know you were already wiser than most, but i am sure like me, you have learned heaps from answering consumer's questions and discourse with other experts.
Matata one part you left out - and a major reason for this thread - is the wonderful interaction between experts - it started on GemKey forum about 12 years ago, moved to RT for a moment and then settled here. It was ground breaking. There were also many offline communications and alliances because of it from people in ivory towers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Garry- you bring up some great points about trade to trade association.
I'm grateful for it.

In terms of the appraisers, IMO their presence, posts and tag lines are a perfect reward for sticking around.
I think that its possible that when someone in the trade recommends and appraiser- it may taint the appearance of impartiality by the nature of the introduction.

Also, other capable appraisers might get discouraged, or dissuaded from joining if there were already "PS endorsed" appraiser lists

I'd also add that the knocks against the design and so forth seem to miss the point.
Yes, there are "regulars"- you want to be nice to their eyes... how the place looks is important.
But I think the look is very nice- and more importantly, consumers coming for assistance are far more impressed if they get quick, accurate answers. Although I've mentioned areas where I feel improvement could be made, by and large people get good information, and fairly quickly here IMO.

 

[denverappraiser]

I think Admin is now a lot more flexible inb that regard.
There is also a move afoot to reward frequent posting appraisers because of the vast knowledge and experiance they bring to the board.
Suggestions please?
.

[/quote]
I agree that PS has contributed to my own education and I value it.

Actually, I think the link in the signature, the listing in the appraiser directory, the connections it has given me with a variety of other professionals, and the affect that all of this has had on my own Google placement is sufficient reward to be worth the trouble for being a 'regular'. I would be very annoyed if the link were removed but I don't think the appraisers are entitled to any special consideration. It would, perhaps, be nice to get a discount if I chose to buy a banner but I would extend this offer to all of the regular trade posters, not just the appraisers.

 

[Regular Guy]

It would, perhaps, be nice to get a discount if I chose to buy a banner but I would extend this offer to all of the regular trade posters, not just the appraisers.

Now there is a cool idea.

On the one hand, quality might have to be monitored by admin, to see if the discount is paying off, but since the nature of the posts would be transparent to readers, and vendors would be shooting themselves in the foot by posting a lot of: "me too!," this would probably take care of itself.

This idea might pay for the cost of this thread!

Ira Z.

P.S. to admin, (eta...)...thanks for responding to me regarding the "Search" tool in the pinned technical thread. FYI, I did since stumble into access to "advanced search," if you do bother to try to engage "search." Despite the fact that "advanced search" is not optimized, maybe per Chunky's comments further above, it's a heck of a lot better than "search" alone. Are you sure you want readers to only stumble into what is clearly available? Just an idea...

 

[Amethyste]

... David, you aren’t completely innocent here.
You routinely post thing in the name of education that you KNOW are going to start a fight with the chorus, ...

But the fights result in several page threads, which keeps his sigline's link to his sales website in front of more eyeballs.
Clever.

Also pretending to be old fashioned and eschewing and claiming to not understand all that "confusing new-fangled techie stuff" quickly endears him to a very large demographic.
Clever.

The current PS vendor rules have traded vibrant meaningful professional discourse for this faux and farcical "discourse".
The same "technical discussions" over and over and over ad nauseam - and all just for eyeballs to the sales link.
It is sad to see this abuse of the spirit of PS tolerated, all so PS can maintain the appearance of tolerating diverse perspectives.

Change is desperately needed.

Kenny... Really? You are that hateful that you have to post something like that??? I can't believe I am reading that!

I am being honest here, one of the reason why I don't post here is because of some gnarly comments you so freely share without actually caring about what the other can feel. For some reasons, you despise DBL and the whole world knows about it! People from outside can see that, other people from the trade see that as well... Who wants to argue and waste their time and being attacked? I wouldn't!

Change is needed, and it starts with you, Kenny.

 

[kenny]

Sorry you feel that way Ame.

I certainly don't hate the man; I don't like what I see him do so I feel I am defending PS.

It is a reaction.

 

[Maisie]

I am returning to PS after a little break. I can't help but feel saddened and disappointed by the blatant bullying of Rockdiamond. Why is this allowed to continue? This isn't the PS I used to love.

If you don't like him, don't interact with him. Its simple.

 

[Maisie]

Sorry you feel that way Ame.

I certainly don't hate the man; I don't like what I see him do so I feel I am defending PS.

It is a reaction.

You don't need to defend PS. Thats what the moderators are for. Its almost like a sport to you. You follow him around deliberately goading him. Your comments are mean. Why not just ignore him if he is that annoying?

 

[Amethyste]

Sorry you feel that way Ame.

I certainly don't hate the man; I don't like what I see him do so I feel I am defending PS.

It is a reaction.

It's easy to say that, Kenny. We all react. it's human nature. But there is such thing as a "controlled reaction".
That would be a great place to start!

 

[kenny]

I have RD on ignore now.

So, can we drop this?

I personally don't mind people not agreeing with me but, the longer this goes on . . . the longer this goes on . . . and an important thread remains offtrack.

Like I said I have him on ignore now.

 

[Amethyste]

I have RD on ignore now.

So, can we drop this?

I personally don't mind taking heat for my actions but the longer this goes on . . .
Like I said I have him on ignore now.

ooooOOOoOO... It is annoying being poked and pointed at hmmm?

Now, try to remember that it feels like that in the other person's shoes !!!

.... Hopefully, we'll be reading about good solutions and positively engaging discussions!!!

 

[kenny]

I have been spanked again by Admin regarding RD.
I've been banned before for exposing that guy and don't care to be banned again so I will shut up.

He can do whatever he wants and I will shut up.
I am finished trying to do the right thing regarding this subject.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Just came back after a 2 week break from PS and saw this thread. I think a lot of good points have been brought up with.

I have said this before, but I became interested in diamonds after I found out my first set of diamond studs had an eye visible inclusion. I didn't even know what an inclusion was when I bought my stone, but I hated seeing a big black mark in the mirror (it was that big!). I store I bought them from went out of business 6 months later, so upgrading was not an option. I was so angry that the sales person did not tell me about it. And I realized to buy jewelry, I had to educate myself because many dealers profit on ignorance.

I think the point of consumer education is to give the consumer all the information so that they can make an informed decision. There is no such thing as the perfect stone, and different stones work for different people. However, there tends to be a trend here that favors cut and size. Color and clarity some second. I think people need to realize, not everyone wants that. For example, I have met several individuals who value clarity (as it represents purity to them). Some people value the antique stones which may not have the best light return, but flash lots of fire and have an individual character about them that can't be found in a mass produced stone.

Diamonds are not a "one size fits all deal." If a consumer decides that they want a "very good cut" stone because they like it and it fits their budget, and comes here for advise, I think it is appropriate to educate them about cut and light return. If they know that and still want that stone, they should not be judged for it. I think this approach would make it a more friendly environment to vendors.

As for the vendor restrictions, I visit lots of forums and have found this forum by far to be the strictest. If I was a vendor who posted in other places, I would be shocked by all these rules! One difference between PS and other forums I visit is that PS makes a point of operating in isolation, and forces its members to post as if this form is in isolation, when in fact, that is not how the internet works. Other forms have become more involved with their internet community. One forum I visit partners with other internet forums and shares topics, and has links to similar sites. The fact that vendors and consumers alike have to pretend that PS is the only internet community in existence makes you really have to think about what you are posting about and really edits your thoughts.

 

[Karl_K]

I have been thinking about this thread for a while.
I have been here when most of the rules were implemented when I first joined the rules were much simpler.
What might help is to think about why the rules were put in place and think of other solutions.
This is my recollection as to why some of these rules exist and based on my experience.
Let start with these:

Can’t comment on a competitor or their diamond except for a few exceptions: several fights between several parties resulting in it being created then expanded.

Can’t say even good things about a competitor: Was put in place so that vendors did not look like a pack of wolves waiting to pounce on a customer instead of being competitors.

No watermarks in smtr - was put in place after abuses in smtr where the logo/watermark was bigger than the diamond.

What other solutions are there to the problems these rules were made to solve?

Thoughts?

 

[Karl_K]

One difference between PS and other forums I visit is that PS makes a point of operating in isolation, and forces its members to post as if this form is in isolation, when in fact, that is not how the internet works. Other forms have become more involved with their internet community. One forum I visit partners with other internet forums and shares topics, and has links to similar sites. The fact that vendors and consumers alike have to pretend that PS is the only internet community in existence makes you really have to think about what you are posting about and really edits your thoughts.

Hi, I read your post with interest and agree with much of it.
I wanted to comment on this part.
At one time it was a war almost the entire diamond industry against Pricescope.
It is still hated in some parts of the industry but as internet sales have grown many have been forced to accept it as a valid part of the diamond trade.
During the worst of the attacks both consumers and trade retreated into the site.
As a consumer I was banned from a couple diamond sites for no other reason than I was posting here.
That is one reason why even today PS is self-contained. The other reason is it strives to be able to answer any and all questions anyone may have about diamonds and jewelery.

 

[Rhino]

Been thinking about this a bit more too.

Another good solution Andrey/Garry.

1. Leave the rules are they are here.
2. Give paying vendors their own blog/vlog space on the pricescope domain to say and write whatever comes to our minds.

All the best,

 

[AGBF]

Been thinking about this a bit more too.

Another good solution Andrey/Garry.

1. Leave the rules are they are here.
2. Give paying vendors their own blog/vlog space on the pricescope domain to say and write whatever comes to our minds.

All the best,

Hi, Jonathan-

I owe you some personal correspondence, but please let me address you here on this issue anyway!

How would this affect anything? Please expound on what you think that this would accomplish.

Deb/AGBF

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

... David, you aren’t completely innocent here.
You routinely post thing in the name of education that you KNOW are going to start a fight with the chorus, ...

But the fights result in several page threads, which keeps his sigline's link to his sales website in front of more eyeballs.
Clever.

Also pretending to be old fashioned and eschewing and claiming to not understand all that "confusing new-fangled techie stuff" quickly endears him to a very large demographic.
Clever.

The current PS vendor rules have traded vibrant meaningful professional discourse for this faux and farcical "discourse".
The same "technical discussions" over and over and over ad nauseam - and all just for eyeballs to the sales link.
It is sad to see this abuse of the spirit of PS tolerated, all so PS can maintain the appearance of tolerating diverse perspectives.

Change is desperately needed.

Kenny... Really? You are that hateful that you have to post something like that??? I can't believe I am reading that!

I am being honest here, one of the reason why I don't post here is because of some gnarly comments you so freely share without actually caring about what the other can feel. For some reasons, you despise DBL and the whole world knows about it! People from outside can see that, other people from the trade see that as well... Who wants to argue and waste their time and being attacked? I wouldn't!

Change is needed, and it starts with you, Kenny.

Really makes me sick what you and Maisie are doing to derail this thread now.
Personally attacking Kennie and keeping this thread off topic. He isn't a trademember and isn't the focus of this thread.

Kenny has said quite bluntly what half a dozen trademembers and many of the experienced long time posters feel in whole or in part.

For every self serving post where a trademember says all diamonds are beautiful to someone and one shouldn't be judged as better than the other in any objective metric, the very important fact is hidden that these diamonds with "off ideal" proportions are often cheaper to produce from cheaper rough or at a better yield. Making arguments that almost all diamonds are equally beautiful and maintaining the chaos in diamond selection often serves no other purpose than to perpetuate ignorance which is great for dealers and terrible for consumers.

Trade and experienced consumers who care about consumer educations see through these tactics, one only has to read
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/are-aset-images-used-as-proofy-numbers-t150015-30.html to see the overhwelming and almost unanimous negative response these simplistic and unsupported opinions receive.

It is also clear there are far more others who are bothered by the need to repeat the same simple concepts over and over again.
Is it fair we have to keep repeating ourselves? Not because it helps certain stubborn trademembers, they aren't even listening or have their minds made up, some trade cling to the old ways and trash all trends and education tools so that "Trust me and my 30 years of experience" continues to work indefinitely.

I don't think we need to have sensationalist threads like the "Proofy" thread attacking selection and consumer education tools on pricescope just so that it provokes the knowledgeable to correct the unsuported opposing position and generates longer threads and more views. They are conterproductive to education and never get to the finer technical points neceesary for creating new knowledge or consensus.

It is just too bad that the average poster will have to overcome a bit of a learning curve to see these threads for what they are. Invariably in every thread like the above there are one or two posters who agree with the "chaos" theory or want to remind everyone to "Play nice". really validates these antieducational tactics and is such a shame.

 

[arjunajane]

Sorry you feel that way Ame.

I certainly don't hate the man; I don't like what I see him do so I feel I am defending PS.

It is a reaction.

You don't need to defend PS. Thats what the moderators are for. Its almost like a sport to you. You follow him around deliberately goading him. Your comments are mean. Why not just ignore him if he is that annoying?

Maisie & Amethyste,
to be fair - I have seen RD do exactly the same thing more than a few times.
He will throw out condescending remarks about Kenny, CCL or other posters that have debated with or opposed him, when those posters are not even part of the discussion at hand.

I think I've made it clear where my position lies, and in my case it is nothing to do with RD personally - it is his disrespect and mocking of consumers which I will not accept in the PS I also feel defensive / protective about. If it were Garry or Rhino or anyone else who displayed this behaviour, I would pull them up too (in fact, Garry and I did have our little run-in way way back ).
As you say, 'defending' PS is the job of the admin ultimately - but I feel we all hold some responsibility to steer the community in the vein it is intended.

I just wanted to add that is the last I will say on the topic within this thread, as I don't wish to be a further part of the distraction from the real discussion.

 

[pancake]

I don't have experience with the ole PS of yore, so I can't comment on the changes over time.I don't think that putting a "TRADE MEMBER" label on trade members' posts is really sufficient, if what we are looking for is a declaration of a poster's interests. I don't have a problem with Garry not declaring his part-ownership of PS (and he is pretty transparent about that), but I do think that there should be more clarification of a person's ROLE within the trade. In some cases it's pretty obvious (eg. denverappraiser) but I think it would be valuable for posters seeking advice to see whether the advice given is coming from an appraiser, a jeweller, a business manager, a gemologist, or a specific combination of the above (rather than just "[Name] - [Business name] - [Website]"). To seasoned PS members this information is obvious but I can imagine that a newcomer would not necessarily know or be able to readily work it out.

I assume that it would be technically difficult to do this anywhere apart from the signature file, but ideally it would be watermarked on posts.

All the RD/Kenny/CCL/whoever else stuff is getting really tiring. In fact, that conflict alone is one of the reasons why I find PS less appealing than previously. Seriously, guys - we know you don't agree with each other. The rest is just dross, and it's uninteresting-to-read dross that clogs up other threads. I think it is enough for experts/prosumers/consumers to just state their opinions, and leave it at that. After all, it is an internet forum - it is entirely made up of the subjective opinions of participants. Established members know that certain entrenched conflicts exist; they don't need to be played out ad nauseam in threadjack after threadjack. I do not want to block any of these posters as I think they have fun/useful/educational things to say a lot of the time, but geeeeeeeez guys - the argy bargy is boring, and irritating to encounter in threads where it's not necessarily expected. If there is a concern amongst the involved parties that a new poster might be being done a terrible injustice by reading the advice of an adversary, it is enough to state one's own opinion, and acknowledge that one's view is in conflict with another poster. Leave it at that. Be civil. Dead horse, etc.

I can understand why PS requires pictures taken by vendors to be de-identified (kind of like drug company merchandise and doctors...insidious advertising) but I think that photos should be credited. Watermarking would solve the problem of photos being appropriated by 3rd parties (eg. eBay sellers etc) but I think that they significantly detract from the viewing pleasure of the community - we are here to oooh! and aaah!, after all!