Update... possiblity of NC looming again

[Becky P]

Date: 11/7/2006 10:53:26 AM
Author: janinegirly
i think she should get an answer on his timeline and his seriousness about engagement/marriage in the short term (ie by March 2007 which I think was her expressed timeline to him). NC by the sounds of it is not an immediate thing and shouldn''t necessarily force a decision (or delay it).

Actually, that''s why things are in a state of turmoil now. If he is to take the position in NC, it would start effective the first of the year. So, he''s talking about flying the two of us out the weekend of Dec. 1st to look for places (yes, plural) and he needs to give his boss an answer in the next week or two, so it is a bit of craziness right now. He told his boss last Friday that "Professionally it makes sense, but there''s a lot of personal things to figure out" (i.e. me not being willing to move without being engaged and him not being ready to get engaged).

 

[janinegirly]

becky, it sounds like you''re backing down again. you so vividly see things, but that may be because you''re buying into a fantasy. You were convinced just days/weeks ago that he would propose soon and that kids weren''t to far away either.
I think you just need to face reality and figure out what you''re willing to put up with. Are you willing to be a gf (not live-in gf) for, say, 2 more years? And follow him again and again? Because that''s likely to happen. Sure he''ll say great things and he''ll seem to say such promising things, but he''ll continue his pattern and actually, he''s being consistent.
I guess I never really understood why you sent that letter and never got a response, but just went right back to things being wonderful when the big elephant in the room hadn''t ever been addressed. Once he mentioned NC and you guys moving there, you just forgot everything and heard wedding bells. Meanwhile, I''m sure he''s nervous about moving somewhere new, and yea, of course he wants you to come along to make it easier for HIM. But not as his wife, or fiance, or even live-in gf. Crazy. I would be livid if he told me that and I would seriously re-evaluate. I think you''re too caught up in the belief that he is the one and that it''s just meant to be.

 

[decodelighted]

IMO ... For all the stores you''ve heard about the girl "just knowing he''s the one" ... calling a friend etc etc ... I''d bet 75% of those didn''t work out. Maybe even more than that. Because these type of "feelings" and "hopes" usually occur before someone''s jaded. Before they''ve loved & lost a few times.

Right now it seems to me you''re pretty far down the priority list ...

HIM
His Career
His Father
His Convenience
His Stress
His Uncertainty
YOU

 

[anchor31]

Date: 11/7/2006 10:53:41 AM
Author: Becky P
Why do I keep waiting then? Because I love him. More than words can explain. We have now dated twice - once in college (Feb ''98- Feb ''99) and now again for the past 4 years (''02-''06). When we met back in college, I called my mom and told her I met the man I was going to marry. She thought I was nuts! But, I just knew, you know that feeling when you just KNOW? When we broke up in college, I was devasted. Eventually, I started dating again, and I dated a LOT of wrong men. No one even held a candle to him. When he called years later, I was flabbergasted. I could not believe that the love of my life had come back. You know that saying, set him free, if he comes back to you, he''s yours, if he doesn''t, it was never meant to be? That''s what I felt like. I had been out there, seen all these other men, and then he finally came back. We are so perfect for each other - neither of us is perfect, mind you - but together, we just work, it clicks. The only stumbling block whatsoever is marriage.

I''ve heard that one before... I know at least three women who really want to get married someday and are now living with their boyfriends who will never marry them; one even has a child with her man... They gave up their dream of marriage and are unhappy about it, but when asked why, they said "because I love him". But they''re still unhappy, aren''t they? So, the question I ask them is: "What about him? Does he love you?" Of course, they say yes. So I answer: "If he loves you so much, then how can he be okay with you being unhappy?" They don''t know.

I think it''s up to you at this point, not to him. Would you rather be dragged around the country as a not even live-in girlfriend and possibly never marry (I hope I''m wrong, but I don''t believe that he intends to marry for a very looong time, if ever) because you love him; or decide that your own life is yours, not his, and that there is another wonderful man for you out there who will be even better, because he''ll not only understand and respect your convictions and values, but he''ll share them too.

About the "man of your life" issue... It''s sad to say, but sometimes the feeling is not mutual... My ex used to say I was the woman of his life, he wanted to marry me and everything, but he certainly wasn''t the man of my life.

I hope you can find a solution you will be at peace with. My intention is not to hurt you, so I hope I''m not. I wish you the best.

 

[mrssalvo]

Becky,

let him go to NC by himself and look for his own place to live. I would not make that trip with him or agree to look for 2 apts. he knows the requirements for you to move. he''s manipulating you to get you there. Don''t do it.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 11/7/2006 10:16:44 AM
Author: Mandarine

What gets me the most. Are you sure you want to get engaged after all this struggle?. It really shouldn''t be this hard. He is so close to losing you and doesn''t seem to care. You talk and he doesn''t seem to listen...it''s like we are all here trying to corner him to he can propose. And then what?....is this what you really want?.

I don''t mean this to sound as blunt as I know it will come out.......but I think it''s just the opposite. It''s Becky who isn''t listening.

He''s acknowledged that he knows what she wants, and he''s been candid in saying that he''s not ready or able to give it. He''s said DIRECTLY several times that 1) he''s not ready, 2) doesn''t know when he will be, and 3 doesn''t want to guestimate a timeline that he''ll be forced to meet. I just don''t know how much more clearly this guy can say "I don''t want to get married or engaged."

Becky''s not listening. He''s said this repeatedly and consistently, and yet she keeps ignoring those statements while focusing on things that sound more like what she wants to hear (he''s talking to me first instead of his family, so that''s a good sign, right? Doesn''t that mean something?).

Becky, my heart breaks for you. I know it''s not easy, and it''s crushingly disappointing, but I really hope you listen to what he''s saying. I understand why you don''t want to hear what he''s saying, but hope and denial aren''t going to change things. He''s NOT READY, and no amount of hoping/pushing/discussing is going to change that.

He''s told you what he IS capable of giving. The ball is really in your court. It''s up to you to decide if that''s enough for you or if it''s not. If it is, then move knowing that you may wait a long time with uncertain outcome. If it''s not, then it''s time to acknowledge that and say so and MEAN IT.

Good luck to you.

 

[ladykemma]

i don't want this sound as racist as this is going to sound, but i knew several muslim (edited -- and indian) men who had american girlfriends. as soon as muslim family arranged a marriage, american girl friend was dumped.

these guys only think of american women as "easy lays", concubine, and mistress, while they wait til their arranged marriage is arranged. he has no intention of marrying you.

there, I said it. have at it girls. flame suit on.

 

[poptart]

Date: 11/7/2006 1:51:59 PM
Author: ladykemma
i don''t want this sound as racist as this is going to sound, but i knew several muslim men who had american girlfriends. as soon as muslim family arranged a marriage, american girl friend was dumped.

these guys only think of american women as ''easy lays'', concubine, and mistress, while they wait til their arranged marriage is arranged. he has no intention of marrying you.

there, I said it. have at it girls. flame suit on.

I was waiting for someone to mention the arranged marriage issue. I was wondering about that.

Marisa

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/7/2006 1:02:49 PM
Author: mrssalvo
Becky,
let him go to NC by himself and look for his own place to live. I would not make that trip with him or agree to look for 2 apts. he knows the requirements for you to move. he''s manipulating you to get you there. Don''t do it.

EXACT-A-MUNDO! WHY would you go? Even if you look for ONE PLACE. That''s not what you want EITHER! And it''s not really a compromise on his part. He''s just making it SEEM like it. THAT''S part of the MANIPULATION.

Aiigh.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

This place is about the best source of free counseling I''ve ever seen. I take that back...it''s probably better than a lot of paid counseling. Stuff may be hard to hear, but I am seeing some very valid posts here.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/7/2006 1:51:59 PM
Author: ladykemma
i don''t want this sound as racist as this is going to sound, but i knew several muslim men who had american girlfriends. as soon as muslim family arranged a marriage, american girl friend was dumped.

these guys only think of american women as ''easy lays'', concubine, and mistress, while they wait til their arranged marriage is arranged. he has no intention of marrying you.

there, I said it. have at it girls. flame suit on.

I don''t think it''s racist to acknowledge a very real and true possibility based on a culture her boyfriend has been indoctrinated into. I don''t know if that her boyfriend considers her an easy lay, but we all know she isn''t getting what she desires from this relationship and she glosses over that by proclaiming her love.

Becky, your initial post sounded like you were settled into not moving without a proposal and a ring, now you waiver. Move away, enjoy NC, but know that you have no right to resent him for not proposing as you.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 11/7/2006 1:51:59 PM
Author: ladykemma
i don''t want this sound as racist as this is going to sound, but i knew several muslim men who had american girlfriends. as soon as muslim family arranged a marriage, american girl friend was dumped.


these guys only think of american women as ''easy lays'', concubine, and mistress, while they wait til their arranged marriage is arranged. he has no intention of marrying you.


there, I said it. have at it girls. flame suit on.

It''s not just Muslims, and it''s not just guys. Any culture where arranged marriage is subscribed to is going to have this issue (i.e. Chinese, Indian), and from my (limited) knowledge, the only ones who don''t follow this path are the kids who were born over here and don''t identify with their family''s culture at all.

And a good friend of mine had his heart broken by a lovely girl who he''d been in a relationship with for years, hoping to convince her to marry him. When the family put their foot down and told her it was time to arrange her marriage, he was swiftly dumped.

She loved him enough to flout her family''s wishes and date a white boy, but when it came right down to it, marriage to someone outside her race, culture, and religion was not what she would do. She seemed to be one of the ''new breed'' and likely to walk away from her family''s expectations. In the end, she didn''t.

I''m very suspicious this might be the underlying problem, too.

 

[janinegirly]

hmm, i gotta say i think that''s a bit unfair: "indoctrinated" into a religion? Would you say that about someone who is Christian? Indoctrinated sounds like brainwashing or cult following. He''s a different religion, his family''s important to him, religion is important in his culture and family--it''s not a character flaw.
Having said that, I agree the different religions could be a potential huge issue, although he has not said he doesn''t want to marry her b/c of religion, but has said many times that he''s not ready. Maybe the 2 are one and the same, but who cares, he''s not ready, he''s not ready, he''s not ready. I agree with the others to not go visiting NC to get a feel for it or whatever the trip is for. He shouldn''t hold back his career b/c of this either. I guess it''s time for him to admit whether or not he can step up now, and for becky to end things if he cannot.

 

[Mandarine]

Date: 11/7/2006 1:42:09 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 11/7/2006 10:16:44 AM
Author: Mandarine

What gets me the most. Are you sure you want to get engaged after all this struggle?. It really shouldn''t be this hard. He is so close to losing you and doesn''t seem to care. You talk and he doesn''t seem to listen...it''s like we are all here trying to corner him to he can propose. And then what?....is this what you really want?.

I don''t mean this to sound as blunt as I know it will come out.......but I think it''s just the opposite. It''s Becky who isn''t listening.

He''s acknowledged that he knows what she wants, and he''s been candid in saying that he''s not ready or able to give it. He''s said DIRECTLY several times that 1) he''s not ready, 2) doesn''t know when he will be, and 3 doesn''t want to guestimate a timeline that he''ll be forced to meet. I just don''t know how much more clearly this guy can say ''I don''t want to get married or engaged.''

Becky''s not listening. He''s said this repeatedly and consistently, and yet she keeps ignoring those statements while focusing on things that sound more like what she wants to hear (he''s talking to me first instead of his family, so that''s a good sign, right? Doesn''t that mean something?).

Becky, my heart breaks for you. I know it''s not easy, and it''s crushingly disappointing, but I really hope you listen to what he''s saying. I understand why you don''t want to hear what he''s saying, but hope and denial aren''t going to change things. He''s NOT READY, and no amount of hoping/pushing/discussing is going to change that.

He''s told you what he IS capable of giving. The ball is really in your court. It''s up to you to decide if that''s enough for you or if it''s not. If it is, then move knowing that you may wait a long time with uncertain outcome. If it''s not, then it''s time to acknowledge that and say so and MEAN IT.

Good luck to you.

you are 100% right!. I mean he doesn''t listen in the way that he brings out these other things to cloud the issue, but it''s Becky''s ersponsibility to really listen to what he''s saying.

 

[galeteia]

Janinegirly, I can''t find where someone said ''indoctrinated into a religion''?

I saw where KimberlyH said ''indoctrinated into a culture'', but you seem to be referring to something else?

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 11/7/2006 2:14:00 PM
Author: janinegirly
hmm, i gotta say i think that's a bit unfair: 'indoctrinated' into a religion? Would you say that about someone who is Christian? Indoctrinated sounds like brainwashing or cult following. He's a different religion, his family's important to him, religion is important in his culture and family--it's not a character flaw.
Having said that, I agree the different religions could be a potential huge issue, although he has not said he doesn't want to marry her b/c of religion, but has said many times that he's not ready. Maybe the 2 are one and the same, but who cares, he's not ready, he's not ready, he's not ready. I agree with the others to not go visiting NC to get a feel for it or whatever the trip is for. He shouldn't hold back his career b/c of this either. I guess it's time for him to admit whether or not he can step up now, and for becky to end things if he cannot.

Janine,

It's not unfair it's the truth. Indoctrinated means: "1. To instruct in a body of doctrine or principles. 2. To imbue with a partisan or ideological point of view." (www.dictionary.com) And yes, I would say the same thing about a Christian. I never called it a "character flaw" nor did I say it's a negative thing, those were inaccurate inferences made on your part. It is simply a fact that parents that are extremely religious indoctrinate their children with the beliefs held by their religion. My parents indoctrinated me in the Catholic faith, as an adult I choose not to follow the path they laid as I don't agree with much that the church teaches. It is likely that he, while non practicing, hasn't completely seperated himself from the values that have been instilled in him, which includes marrying within ones faith.

ETA: My statement holds true about culture as well as religion, but I spoke of religion because that's what you, janine, referred to.

 

[Maria D]

Becky, just because you "went through" a lot of wrong men doesn't mean your guy is the one and only one for you. You probably dated a lot of wrong guys for the same reason I did in my mid-twenties -- because for some women it's part of being in your twenties! Your man is perfect for you in every single way except the marriage issue, but marriage is what you want! So even though there's just one imperfection, it's a HUGE flaw. A big fat carbon spot in the perfectly symmetrical diamond. Maybe it would be better to find a guy that's an SI1 with lots of teeny but clear inclusions than keep the I3? hardyharhar, I couldn't resist....

To clarify, I didn't think that his conferring with dad on living together sounded ridiculous because he shouldn't look to parents for counsel. To me it's ridiculous because Becky said she didn't want to live together without being engaged and now he's acting as though if it's OK with Dad it should be OK for Becky! As if this is Dad's decision to make.

As I wrote about before, I was in a similar situation where a job transfer sped up the proposal timeline. My now DH wanted to live together first and I didn't. He (who was 31 at the time) discussed it with his mom who said, of course not, she wants to be married, what's your problem? I can thank my dear MIL for moving things along!

Now think about the conversation your boyfriend is going to have with his Dad. He'll tell Dad that the two of you are thinking of living together in NC outside of wedlock and ask to be reassured that Dad doesn't find this disrespectful. What's Dad going to think/say? Sure, do whatever you want, why would I care? Unlikely. Wouldn't Dad, a man of devout faith, wonder why his son wants to cohabitate with his girlfriend rather than marry her? What reasons can there possibly be for Dad to be OK with you two cohabitating? The only one I can think of is Dad thinking, OK fine, they're living together but at least they are not marrying. So my point in all of this is that the fact that your boyfriend wants to talk to his father about living together is very worrisome. He already knows his father will be against it. The only way it makes sense to most parents, religious or not, is if a marriage is forthcoming. Is he going to placate him by telling him "at least we're not getting married?" Living together is something a couple does in spite of (most) parents, not with their blessing. By the way, what are YOUR parents/family advising you?

As for the part about how much you love him, didn't you ever hear that Love Stinks!

I know it's really a hard time for you. But I really do think that if you let your heart cloud your judgment, things could get a lot more painful. You know you shouldn't take that trip on Dec. 1. Why not just say no?

 

[Becky P]

Ladies -
Thank you all for your candid and honest responses. Funny how people we have never even met can sometimes say things in a much better way than friends/family we''ve known our whole life. I think people who know me (and us) see what a good thing we have, think that one day it will really work out, and don''t want to hurt my feelings by telling me the honest truth. The anonymity of a chat board allows for people to speak the real, honest truth about what they see going on that a person so intertwined in things (me) cannot see. So, for that I thank you.

I find that I turn to the ladies on this board when I need that moral support and boost. It helps to be reminded that I am not being unreasonable by clearly explaining that I will not be moving without a proposal. But, he knows me in ways that no one else does and is able to persuade me in ways that no one can... So, it''s helpful to have the "backup" of the friends on this board who will remind me to stay true to myself and not allow him to convince me to do something that I know in my heart isn''t what I want. I know I need to stay strong and stick to my guns on this - but it''s hard.

The bottom line is that yes, I said that he needed to make a decision by March 31, 2007. I went back and read some of my previous posts to remind myself what exactly I told him and what his response was. The bottom line, it seems, is that he is not now, nor will he be ready by March 31st to make the decision to take that next step. So, he needs to move to NC if that''s what he thinks is best professionally. And, I need to figure out where it is that I want to go on my own. Because I don''t really see any way that he can reconcile this. He doesn''t want to get married. I do. End of story. And, I think religion and culture aside, that''s the bottom line. Easier "said" (typed) on this board than getting it through to myself for real, so it may take some time to come to recognize this as reality, but it''s the truth, and it''s better that I see it now than after a year or two or whatever living in NC wondering why, oh why, is he still not ready to propose...

 

[anchor31]

Oh Becky, I''m so so so glad to hear you say this... Don''t give up. We''re here to support you when you need it, because what we want most is for YOU to be happy. I wish you the best.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Because I don''t really see any way that he can reconcile this. He doesn''t want to get married. I do. End of story. And, I think religion and culture aside, that''s the bottom line. Easier "said" (typed) on this board than getting it through to myself for real, so it may take some time to come to recognize this as reality, but it''s the truth, and it''s better that I see it now than after a year or two or whatever living in NC wondering why, oh why, is he still not ready to propose...

Can I get an Amen?

Becky, I can tell that you are a very insightful and compassionate person. I wish you well with everything, and I''ll be sure to come back and check on how you are doing. Just keep rereading your posts, and maybe make a montage of all the best lines from the advice you''ve gotten here to go over in moments of weakness.

Good luck figuring out where you want to move. Maybe a poll is in order?

 

[onedrop]

Becky can I just say "wow!" You had a lightbulb moment I think. Not to say that anyone was right or wrong, but it sounds like based upon what you wrote that you have some clarity about the situation and made a decision about what is best for you. Good for you! And I wish you strength in following through with your decision.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Date: 11/7/2006 10:50:33 AM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Aside from telling you that NC is a wonderful place to live

I agree! I love NC. What city?

I am very impressed that you are standing up to him. I don''t think asking for an engagement ring/commitment is too much. He seems to be the boss in your relationship and isn''t even considering your feelings. Would you ever go to couple''s therapy? If he is the one for you and your 100% sure something needs to change.

 

[diamondfan]

Becky, two things come to mind here. ONE: DO NOT move under any circumstances unless there is a serious proposal. Not an I will give her a ring and propose but will never really move forward on things proposal but a real one. The loss of freedom stuff is worrisome to me, esp. if he consults with you NOW, what does he envision changing in the future as husband and wife? Married people are not chained at the hip, though obviously the assumption, at least to me, is that you DO want to do lots of stuff together while still maintaining your own interests and hobbies. The balancing act is up to the two people involved,

TWO: It does seem like he thinks you will just trot on after him and be available. I would NOT do this. Say it nicely, say it lovingly, but SAY IT. That you love him and have faith in him and support his job choices, but that you need a firmer committment and need to know where things stand, either way, really. Not I will but not now and I do not know when comments, which are meant to buy time and wear you down to come with him.

If you go, you will justify that you have moved twice for him and you will NOT want to walk away and he will take advantage of this, even unconsciously. He might even lose some respect for you for participating, funny as it sounds. Be strong, and tell him you love him, wish him luck if he goes, and tell him you are willing, from afar, to give it some time but that you will not wait forever. This is really for your own good so you do not spend a few more years waiting for him to feel ready.

I know this is blunt and I do not know you, but I know of this situation and have seen girls put in a lot of years only to be told, I am ready, but just do not want to marry YOU now, and while I do not think this is the case, why put your relationship on that path? He will be happy to have you along and allowing this to go on. You need to be the firmer one, and let him know you love him but that there are things that need to occur for the relationship to go on!

ETA: I just saw your latest post. I am sorry, but I do think you are doing the right thing. Maybe he will come around? Hope you are still there if he does...

 

[TravelingGal]

Becky P, good for you for admitting that. I hope you stick with it, because it IS easier said than done.

I think I'm going to go into the red flag manufacturing business and take ads out on PS to sell them to all the LIW and BIWs. I'd make a mint because so many here do give good advice and put up those flags quickly. The track record here for advice/results is pretty solid...LIWs would do well to read past situations of others and REALIZE that when they get similar "WTF?" advice that their situation is not special or different. It'd save a few bucks in the self help aisle at the bookstore.

This is going to sound harsh, and I don't mean it to be...but in my real life, I have never met a man who was over the moon for a woman and had a hard time proposing. The ones that stalled had issues...and most of the time it was because they were not right for each other.

 

[janinegirly]

becky~ it''s impressive that you are able to be so calm and accept all the advice with such composure. Good for you! Now hopefully you can apply it to your situation on a tangible level too. Keep us posted, it''s going to be a roller coaster of a few weeks for you either way, so feel free to come back here and vent!!

traveling gal-i don''t entirely agree. I don''t think it''s always so simple as guy is over the moon and so proposes easily and quickly. In some cases, yes. But frankly, the over the moon relationships don''t always last. I think many men stall because they have slightly different timelines (ie not quite ready for marriage for whatever reason), so there is a stage where there is some adjustment needed so the 2 can be on the same page. Men, in their defense, don''t like to be forced, so usually won''t propose until they are 100% which can be frustrating for the women in their lives who may''ve gotten there sooner. I don''t think it''s so bizarre for 2 people to be on different life timelines (temporarily). Obviously if the diffs are WAY off, then we have a problem. If it''s 6 mo''s off, that''s nothing compared to a lifetime, and many of us work through it.
Also, some men fear marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with the girl they''re with or how devoted they are etc. It can stem from a bad previous relationship, poor examples of marriage growing up,etc. So again, a couple may need to work through this. It''s up to each couple (or the person who is wanting marriage) to determine at what point the amount of work overshadows the joy of the proposal or the whole point of starting a life together. Anyway, I guess shades of gray....which is what I think you brought up regarding Galetia''s situation (sorry if it wasn''t you). They exist here too. BUT yes the big picture must be in sync, but timing being off or how FAST it should go, eh, that''s very common and not red flag worthy. I''ve seen many men who took forever to propose and were totally scared of marriage then EMBRACE it completely after the proposal. Because once they''d worked through their fears, irrational or not, they were 100% on board. And that''s just when everything clicks!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/8/2006 9:43:38 AM
Author: janinegirly
becky~ it''s impressive that you are able to be so calm and accept all the advice with such composure. Good for you! Now hopefully you can apply it to your situation on a tangible level too. Keep us posted, it''s going to be a roller coaster of a few weeks for you either way, so feel free to come back here and vent!!

traveling gal-i don''t entirely agree. I don''t think it''s always so simple as guy is over the moon and so proposes easily and quickly. In some cases, yes. But frankly, the over the moon relationships don''t always last. I think many men stall because they have slightly different timelines (ie not quite ready for marriage for whatever reason), so there is a stage where there is some adjustment needed so the 2 can be on the same page. Men, in their defense, don''t like to be forced, so usually won''t propose until they are 100% which can be frustrating for the women in their lives who may''ve gotten there sooner. I don''t think it''s so bizarre for 2 people to be on different life timelines (temporarily). Obviously if the diffs are WAY off, then we have a problem. If it''s 6 mo''s off, that''s nothing compared to a lifetime, and many of us work through it.
Also, some men fear marriage for reasons that have nothing to do with the girl they''re with or how devoted they are etc. It can stem from a bad previous relationship, poor examples of marriage growing up,etc. So again, a couple may need to work through this. It''s up to each couple (or the person who is wanting marriage) to determine at what point the amount of work overshadows the joy of the proposal or the whole point of starting a life together. Anyway, I guess shades of gray....which is what I think you brought up regarding Galetia''s situation (sorry if it wasn''t you). They exist here too. BUT yes the big picture must be in sync, but timing being off or how FAST it should go, eh, that''s very common and not red flag worthy. I''ve seen many men who took forever to propose and were totally scared of marriage then EMBRACE it completely after the proposal. Because once they''d worked through their fears, irrational or not, they were 100% on board. And that''s just when everything clicks!

Janine, I agree with you, so let me clarify what I said...

I said "in MY real life". I don''t know about men in anyone else''s life. And by over the moon, I mean just really and truly loves the woman. I also said "the ones that stalled had issues, and most of the time it was because they weren''t right for each other." If it wasn''t that, it was because of commitment issues due to previous baggage, so yes that was included.

And finally, I did say a "hard time" proposing...which doesn''t always mean quick and easy. It just WASN''T THAT HARD.

 

[janinegirly]

thanks for the clarification travelinggal. Sometimes I read the posts really quickly and I miss some subtleties or portions of sentences all together. Maybe that''s b/c I''m supposed to be working!

 

[Becky P]

Thanks ladies for all your support. I think it will be a really rough few weeks here as things are up in the air. But, I think I did have one of those lightbulb moments yesterday, and it''s really not about moving to NC or not moving to NC - Raleigh is the city we''d have to go to by the way for whoever asked. Regardless of the choice he makes professionally the bottom line is still that I want to get married and he doesn''t. So, we''re really at a stalemate unless one of us is willing to give in - and we''re both super stubborn. I cannot give in on getting engaged/married, but I can, within reason, give him the time he needs to mentally prepare - if he''s willing to put time and effort into that.

The hardest part about this whole thing is that he travels quite a bit for work and has been gone a LOT so there hasn''t been much time to really sit down and figure everything out. Normally, we''d talk about everything while cooking dinner or something. But, he was in Vegas with the guys from Oct. 27-31, then in San Diego for a work conference from Nov. 1-Nov. 6. He got in on the red eye on Nov. 6 and we went to lunch and unsuccessfully discussed a lot of the potential changes. Then Nov. 6 he had to drive up to Buffalo, NY and he''s there til Nov. 10. He might go to Chicago for the weekend for the OSU/Nwestern game - fly there from Buffalo and then fly back to Buffalo on Sun b/c he needs to be in Syracuse, NY from Nov. 13-17. Then, Nov. 17 he''s heading to Columbus, OH (which I was supposed to go with him but got a waitressing job and have to work) for the weekend and his mom is coming back with him on Nov. 20 and will be in town the entire week for Thanksgiving. So, unless we talk about this on the phone - which with stuff this important we really prefer to have conversations in person - it won''t be until after Thanksgiving that things will settle down enough for us to figure it all out. So, grrrr, all stressed out an no end in sight. Although, it might be good that he''s gone so he has time to think about things and figure out what it is that he really wants...

 

[janinegirly]

hi becky, i think that him being gone a lot may also be indicative of the problem. no wonder he is scared to lose his freedom, right now he has it pretty good in between travel, being out with the boys in vegas, going to football games for long wkends,etc. And no wonder it's hard to squeeze in quality time with you! If this is important to him, he should make time. I can understand work, but alot of other stuff is social, and I question why you aren't included.
Tell him you guys need to talk, in person is preferable. This is your LIFE, you're supposedly moving in a matter of weeks, you shouldn't be somewhere on the bottom or middle of his busy schedule.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 11/8/2006 11:31:45 AM
Author: janinegirly
hi becky, i think that him being gone a lot may also be indicative of the problem. no wonder he is scared to lose his freedom, right now he has it pretty good in between travel, being out with the boys in vegas, going to football games for long wkends,etc. And no wonder it''s hard to squeeze in quality time with you! If this is important to him, he should make time. I can understand work, but alot of other stuff is social, and I question why you aren''t included.

Tell him you guys need to talk, in person is preferable. This is your LIFE, you''re supposedly moving in a matter of weeks, you shouldn''t be somewhere on the bottom or middle of his busy schedule.

I agree. Becky, are you happy with his schedule and all the activities that don''t include you? I can understand work related things but all the boy activities would make me very unhappy. I''d want my guy to WANT to be with me and choose me over guy football when his schedule is so hectic.