Update... possiblity of NC looming again

[JulieN]

From an Asian POV, living together brings shame to the whole family. It's embarrasing.

Doesn't mean he's a woman oppressor.

Whether he proposes or not, it's a more a male thing, than an ethnic or religious thing.

 

[tulip928]

Date: 11/13/2006 8:31:49 AM
Author: JulieN
From an Asian POV, living together brings shame to the whole family. It's embarrasing.

Doesn't mean he's a woman oppressor.

Whether he proposes or not, it's a more a male thing, than an ethnic or religious thing.

Julie - I think she stated previously that the religious thing is a big thing in his family. It probably explains his duplicitous behavior. He's living in two cultures.

 

[janinegirly]

Date: 11/13/2006 12:36:14 AM
Author: Galateia

Date: 11/12/2006 11:26:04 PM
Author: *Lindsey*
This thread and your story makes me feel so terrible. You get hopeful and feel confident, thinking logically, standing up for yourself... but he wins at EVERY discussion. Every time you say ''oh I''d never...'' you come back here and say ''actually after talking to him, I understand that he needs ABC so I think I''d actually like to XYZ even though...'' Becky, it''s heart breaking. I''m just going to have to stop reading! People will always do what they have always done.

Amen. I can''t take it anymore. We are the ladies in Harry Met Sally, screaming at Becky to wake up, but she''s not listening.

Well said, and I had to chuckle a bit too (we are those ladies!!). Not sure if she''s reading this thread anymore, but I hope so. I hate hearing others criticize me, but I think this is a black and white situation. I don''t even look at the religion/culture issue as being the biggest piece here yet, b/c Becky hasn''t even scratched below the surface! She just hears a few words and caves and follows him whever his heart desires! Ok, i need to stop reading too..

 

[Butterflies]

Date: 11/9/2006 9:45:50 AM
Author: Butterflies

I think he is so used to you giving in that he thinks this shall pass too. That is why he doesn''t see all this as a crisis and he doesn''t think it is necessary to cancel his trip with his buddies. He knows you too well and he believes that in the end he will convince you to do what he wants you to do. His plan is to bring you to NC with him on Dec 1st so you can start getting excited about moving, eventhough it would be without a ring. I still think that the religious and cultural believes are big part of why he is so hesitant to get engaged.

He didn''t even had to bring her to NC on Dec 1st to convince her to move without the ring.

 

[Becky P]

Date: 11/12/2006 8:59:07 PM
Author: ladykemma
i would go and ask his mom point blank about their plans for him and any arrangements being made. i think his mom would be honest with you.

This is a good idea. His mom and I are very close, and she would be honest with me. Although, since he has lived in the US his entire life, and his sister is not having an arranged marriage, I''m sure that he''s not expected to either.

 

[Becky P]

In my post yesterday, I did not give every little gory detail of the HOURS of discussion that he and I had over the weekend. There are a lot of factors playing into the choices that he and I are making, but we are making these decisions together. There are broad generalizations being made about my relationship based on the snippets that I have shared. I think what it comes down to is that we have a great, wonderful relationship when we''re together. And, him traveling so much just allows my female craziness to come out and that''s when I come here to vent and get other persepectives on what people see. But, in the end, it''s my choice, and I think this man does have every intention of marrying me. Thank you for your well-wishes. I''ll let you know how it turns out.

 

[janinegirly]

it''s true that we do not know the gory details of these so called hours of discussion. but you updated us on the RESULT which was:
*no further clarity on his intention to marry/be engaged which is very important to you
*no response to YOUR issues which were driving you "crazy": ie will he follow through on his promise to be engaged before asking you to move again
*no response on your letter of several months ago asking for specifics on your timeline
*no response on whether you will live together with him when you uproot in 3 mo''s
*no response on his family''s view of YOU and the religious conflicts which are glaring red flags
*you will follow him to NC with no strings attached (his issue)
*you will back off and not push the marriage issue (his issue)

So zero was accomplished on your end (which you have been venting about for weeks here) although you''ve convinced yourself that it was all just due to female craziness because your bf hasnt'' been around (which uhhh doesn''t make him much of a boyfrined, especially since you followed him to pittsburgh to BE with him) which is just so wrong on so many levels and kind of insulting to women.
Your so called faith in this relationship has gotten you no where but where he wants you. Someday (soon) you will see this and kick yourself. Good luck and hope your bf enjoys his boy wkend in Vegas, he sure has a lot to celebrate!

 

[Mandarine]

Date: 11/13/2006 9:38:26 AM
Author: janinegirly

Date: 11/13/2006 12:36:14 AM
Author: Galateia

Date: 11/12/2006 11:26:04 PM
Author: *Lindsey*
This thread and your story makes me feel so terrible. You get hopeful and feel confident, thinking logically, standing up for yourself... but he wins at EVERY discussion. Every time you say ''oh I''d never...'' you come back here and say ''actually after talking to him, I understand that he needs ABC so I think I''d actually like to XYZ even though...'' Becky, it''s heart breaking. I''m just going to have to stop reading! People will always do what they have always done.

Amen. I can''t take it anymore. We are the ladies in Harry Met Sally, screaming at Becky to wake up, but she''s not listening.

Well said, and I had to chuckle a bit too (we are those ladies!!). Not sure if she''s reading this thread anymore, but I hope so. I hate hearing others criticize me, but I think this is a black and white situation. I don''t even look at the religion/culture issue as being the biggest piece here yet, b/c Becky hasn''t even scratched below the surface! She just hears a few words and caves and follows him whever his heart desires! Ok, i need to stop reading too..

I do understand it is frustrating and somewhat heartbreaking....but ladies, don''t take this personal. Really...

I can understand getting bent out of shape if you had a close friend or sister doing what we think Becky is doing, but at the end of the day Becky came asking for advice....we all said how we felt...and that''s that. What she does from now on it''s really just all her choice and she will realize sooner or later whether this was or not a mistake.

I do kind of applaude Becky for coming here to give us an update...even though she knew 100% of the answers were going to be exactly what we all wrote....so that kind of says something...I don''t what "what" it says, but it says something.

But anyway, just wanted to say that you guys shouldn''t feel bad or sad or heartbroken !!!. You all have given wonderful advice and you shouldn'' take it personal. I also don''t think you guys should try to breakdown the reasons why this is a mistake. I think Becky knows those reasons as well as we all do (maybe she doesn''t want to face them, but she knows them)....even with all those in mind she still wants to go forward. I think all we can do is not spend more energy on trying to convince her otherwise, wish her luck and move on.

M~

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 11/13/2006 10:59:14 AM
Author: Mandarine


I can understand getting bent out of shape if you had a close friend or sister doing what we think Becky is doing, but at the end of the day Becky came asking for advice....we all said how we felt...and that''s that. What she does from now on it''s really just all her choice and she will realize sooner or later whether this was or not a mistake.

No my dear....at the end of the day, she came looking for validation.

 

[Becky P]

Date: 11/13/2006 10:44:35 AM
Author: janinegirly
it''s true that we do not know the gory details of these so called hours of discussion. but you updated us on the RESULT which was:
*no further clarity on his intention to marry/be engaged which is very important to you He has clearly explained that he does want to marry me. He said that we would not be engaged as fast as I want, but not to worry because it wouldn''t be as long as I''m thinking it will be. When he said he needed more time, I was like, how long do I have to wait then? I''m seeing this happening in 2-4 months, and it seems like you see it happening in 2-4 years. He said it definitely won''t be that long. So, am I happy that it will probably be another year or maybe even 2? No, definitely not. But, do I trust him and believe that he is sincere in his desire to marry me? Yes.
*no response to YOUR issues which were driving you ''crazy'': ie will he follow through on his promise to be engaged before asking you to move again The bottom line is that we won''t be engaged before moving. It''s something that I have to accept. He does want to get engaged and marry me, but forcing him into a corner is not going to improve the situation. Plus, there really is no good reason for me to stay in Pittsburgh since he''s the only reason that I moved here in the first place.
*no response on your letter of several months ago asking for specifics on your timeline He sees a timeline as a be all, end all deadline. He said that he could make something up that would give him the time he needs in order to be ready, but also get me to chill out, but he doesn''t want to just make something up. He wants to be honest with me and doesn''t want to just make things up to placate me. After the thread about deadlines, I''m not so sure how I feel about that anymore - I know that''s what I was pushing for a few weeks ago, but I don''t see that it will be effective with his personality. I think it works for some men, but for him, it doesn''t.
*no response on whether you will live together with him when you uproot in 3 mo''s This is still being discussed. We have literally only been talking about this for 7 days. What man do you know who would make a life altering decision (in his mind) without really thinking everything through. I''m glad that he''s taking time to consider this before making any rash decisions. Also, this isn''t a decision that needs to be made today, so, yes, I am going to ease up and give him time to think about it before pressing him any harder on this issue. It sounds like he''s seriously thinking about living together because yesterday he was talking about buying a townhouse and that we both work at home so we''d need to have space for both of our offices and it couldn''t be in the same room because it would be too distracting with both of us on the phone all day. So, I think he''s seriously considering it, and so am I. With all of the challenges women here have had living with their bf''s before a proposal, I''m not sure whether I want to live with him or not. We''re both thinking about it all and will figure it out if/when it gets to that point. Neither of us have even been to Raleigh, so who knows if we''d even like it there. Everything is hypothetical until we say, yes, we like Raleigh, we''d like to live there, and his boss tells him that he''s definitely hired. Right now there are a million what-if''s, but we''ve just gotta take them one step at a time- first things first.
*no response on his family''s view of YOU and the religious conflicts which are glaring red flags He and I already had this discussion. Neither of us are practicing any religion. His parent''s love me to death and they want me as a part of their family. He is not going to have an arranged marriage - that''s just not how his family is. He said that if his parent''s gave him a hard time about marrying me (which both of us seriously doubt) he would tell them that he loved me and it wasn''t their decision to make. He said, he''s not worried about it, so I shouldn''t be either.
*you will follow him to NC with no strings attached (his issue) When I moved to Pittsburgh, we never really discussed marriage or what either of our expectations are. I am kicking myself now, because I had the expectation that if I moved to Pittsburgh and things went well that we would get married. Clearly, he had different expectations. So, yes, I may choose to follow him to NC without being engaged, but he is very clear that I would be moving with the expectation of being engaged in the near future after moving. Do I know the exact date or timeframe? No. But, he is clear on what I expect and he said he would not consider asking me to move again unless his intention was to have a life and a future with me.
*you will back off and not push the marriage issue (his issue) No, I am not backing off of the marriage issue, I am simply recognizing that he needs time and space to process all of the changes that are being discussed. He has said multiple times that he wants to marry me. I believe that he does. I am going to stop bringing it up all the time because it''s driving him crazy, but he knows what I expect.

So zero was accomplished on your end NO. Not true. I got up the nerve to actually talk about all these things with him. By nature, I am not a confrontational person. Having the support here has given me the courage to tell him what it is that I need and we have been able to have hours of discussion on how we see all of this playing out. Just because I haven''t accomplished what you wanted me to accomplish does not mean that nothing was accomplished at all. (which you have been venting about for weeks here) although you''ve convinced yourself that it was all just due to female craziness because your bf hasnt'' been around (which uhhh doesn''t make him much of a boyfrined, especially since you followed him to pittsburgh to BE with him) which is just so wrong on so many levels and kind of insulting to women. He HAS to travel for work. I knew that when I moved here. It just so happened that circumstantially, he had to travel a lot at a very critical time. One of the positives of moving to Raleigh is that he would only have to travel 3-4 days a month instead of 15-20.

Your so called faith in this relationship has gotten you no where but where he wants you. Someday (soon) you will see this and kick yourself. Good luck and hope your bf enjoys his boy wkend in Vegas, he sure has a lot to celebrate! The Vegas trip was 3 weeks ago. At that time, there was nothing to discuss. He attended his work conference in California the week after Vegas, and that''s when NC became a reality as opposed to a hypothetical discussion. He made the choice to come home this weekend and figure everything out. He''s back in NY this week because he HAS to be there for work - it''s a requirement of his job, and he''s got meetings and shows already set up that were planned months in advance. His family will be here the entire week of Thanksgiving, so we''ll have other people around a lot and might not be able to make any decisions, but this was also planned months in advance and of course we want his family here. We''re flying out to visit Raleigh on Wednesday, Nov. 29 and will be there through Sunday, Dec. 3, so we''ll have plenty of time, just the two of us to figure a lot of the details out during that weekend.

 

[diamondglee]

No my dear....at the end of the day, she came looking for validation.

+1
Totally agree

 

[Mandarine]

Date: 11/13/2006 11:29:29 AM
Author: diamondglee

No my dear....at the end of the day, she came looking for validation.

+1
Totally agree

hehe....agree....but she came back knowing she wasn''t getting validation from us. She knew we would all jump and disagree...and ''flame'' away.

So what I''m saying is that at this point I think we all have energy best spent elsewhere. No offense to you Becky, but you seem to have your mind made up and I really think all we can do is respect that and wish you luck!

M~

 

[TravelingGal]

Hm, well let me tell you...

*takes big breath*

*sighs*

I can''t tell you anything else. I looked at your above post and I could have said a million different things, but I know my words will ring hollow.

So I hope that your words will ring slightly less hollow, as this is what YOU said, and I think there are truths/good intentions in them.

***

- I honestly think it''s going to take loosing me for him to realize that he wants to marry me.

- We had a serious heart to heart - the longest discussion we''d ever had about marriage. He said he definitely sees himself marrying me, but he''s really not ready yet and he doesn''t know when he will be. I told him that I wanted to respect his need for time and the need to be ready, but that I wasn''t going to wait forever. Well, we''re now about 2 1/2 months since that last discussion, and there has been no change.

- I''ve got to give him at least until I''ve lived here for one year, which will be the end of Dec. 2006. In my head, I''ve decided that if he hasn''t proposed by March 31, 2007, then I''m breaking up with him - for those of you who have read Closing the Deal, I''ll be pulling the bluff. And, if it does end up being the end, then I know I''m strong enough to be okay with that.

 

[diamondglee]

Her minds made up...don''t confuse her with the facts.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 11/13/2006 12:09:49 PM
Author: diamondglee
Her minds made up...don''t confuse her with the facts.

LOL - ....da nile ain''t just a river in Egypt.

To add - I wouldn''t seriously take a look at whether one would want to marry someone so manipulative. Playing to the good girl rather than cherishing it.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 11/13/2006 10:59:14 AM
Author: Mandarine
I do understand it is frustrating and somewhat heartbreaking....but ladies, don''t take this personal.

I think all we can do is not spend more energy on trying to convince her otherwise, wish her luck and move on.

Mandarine,

I don''t think people are taking it personally that their sage advice is falling on deaf ears ... I think its a universal truth that it''s so so so so hard to see a situation CLEARLY from the OUTSIDE ... and watch someone that''s INSIDE flounder & waffle & cave. And that''s just my opinion of the situation -- but it seems like it''s the PREVAILING opinion.

Whether it''s your sister or friend or someone you know personally or even a CHARACTER on a TV show (hello -- that waif on Grey''s Anatomy) ... it''s FRUSTRATING, MADDENING, HEARTBREAKING to watch & ultimately fruitless.

Especially when, from the timeline, you can trace back in a person''s own words the way they talk themselves in & out of whatever''s convenient at the time. Whatever''s getting them the kind of attention/validation they want (pep talk, assurences, wake up call, or the fella''s however briefly renewed attention).

Well - count me off the roller-coaster.

*I* ain''t following the story to NC or one day further.

And it''s not because I don''t wish Becky well ... I do ... but I now realize the extent of her denial. And it''s bulletproof.

Deco

 

[Becky P]

Well, thanks ladies. I thought this was a safe board where we could support each other. Apparently it''s not. Clearly people don''t agree with the decisions I''m making, but I''M the one who has to live with my own decisions. There''s no need to be abusive or rude to me because you don''t agree with the decisions I''m making. I give respect in my replies to others and expect the same in return. There''s nothing left to say here. Goodbye.

 

[Mara]

deco is right, it's not about taking it personally, it's like seeing one of your friends with the wrong guy or with a guy who treats her badly and you have to hold your tongue because you can't say what you really think OR if you do say what you really think, you risk alienating her because SHE knows what's best of course. and sometimes these gals do. and other times, they really don't. one of my best girlfriends had this guy who was a total wacko. and she adored him. he was like a large child, perpetual teenager in college or something. anyway, she and i had a huge falling out because after a while i just had to say what i thought. and then later when they broke up she was like yeah you were right. and sometimes these threads remind me of that experience. when you are WATCHING a train wreck and you can't do anything but sit by.

in any case, none of us really know if that train wreck is becky's relationship or if it just appears that way at times because of partial information given, or the written word not conveying true emotion, or whatever. there are a ton of nuances we are not privvy to as well as conversations we don't know about, etc. that is what i always try to remember when reading these threads on PS. so it's kind of hard to JUDGE so flatly and completely, when we only have what she writes. however, much of what is written here does convey that, becky, you are busy waiting around for potentially something that might never come, while uprooting your life time and time again when he has what he wants and yet you don't. but hey it's not my life, it's not anyone's life here, it's your life. and you have to do what works for you. even if it's hard for people here to watch it.

so yes, in reality, i'm pretty much done like deco because i just can't keep participating where there seems to be no real advice that i can give that can assist you becky. i wish that i could help but i feel like i can't. so best of luck, and hope you end up with what you desire. the one last thing i will say is really think about things...and you don't have to do this for any of us, but for yourself. think about your life. this IS your life you know. you only have one. make sure every action and decision you make is what is best for you. because i don't think that you do enough of that.

 

[musey]

Date: 11/13/2006 12:36:50 PM
Author: decodelighted
I think its a universal truth that it's so so so so hard to see a situation CLEARLY from the OUTSIDE ...

amen. No one knows what's really in his head, and Becky (I hope) comes closest to knowing that of anyone in the world. If, based on her conversations with him this weekend, she's satisfied... we can't really ask any more of her (or him) at this point!

Becky, if you're happy in this relationship right now, you can't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you're not, please find a way to fix it so that you are! You're the one that has to live with your own decisions, so by all means if those decisions are making you happy then stick to them.

I wish you the very best, and look forward to hearing how it pans out. Enjoy NC, it's beautiful

 

[canuk-gal]

Date: 11/13/2006 12:55:31 PM
Author:
I wish you the very best, and look forward to hearing how it pans out. Enjoy NC, it''s beautiful

HI:

Agreed.

There is nothing really surprising or dismaying about this thread, b/c everything Becky has done has lead her to exactly where she is today. Rather predictable, and is she is OK with it, then that is really all there is.

cheers--Sharon

 

[phoenixgirl]

Becky, I really hope everything works out for you and that you'll feel comfortable coming back here whichever path you eventually go down. If you get engaged, you'll need to share details of your sparkly, and if the relationship ends, you might want some virtual hugs. So I think there is still a place for you here.

To be honest, I gave you a pep talk because I thought that's what you subconsciously wanted. Why else would you keep coming back after you got reply after reply telling you to heed the red flags? If you found it abusive or rude, I'm sorry. Ijust figured that since our reactions were pretty predictable, at least part of you wanted to have somebody play the devil's advocate. Again I would caution you against confusing the issue . . . this isn't about people being intrusive (you're the one who asked for advice) or harsh; it's about the details of your relationship.

I do feel frustrated to have Becky keep folding on her resolve. I know I don't know her, but I guess I write each post hoping that it helps her see things the way they come across. It's not as though they are blissfully happy but we keep trying to cast doubt on their happiness . . . Becky keeps telling us her concerns and unfulfilled desires and then deciding just to table them.

We all know those couples that are obviously wrong for each other, obviously doomed. We've had two couple friends break up recently. One was a very similar story . . . dated in high school 15 years ago, were always on and off. Were back on and so she moved 5 states away to be with him. She kept thinking he'd propose or let her move into his house. He got a roommate just to keep it from being an issue.

Now, I have to say we viewed this from the guy perspective. She wouldn't let him have female friends, wouldn't let him hang out with anybody but her, tried to discourage him from biking, his hobby. She'd have a big fit if he said something like, "Hey, why don't you come over?" instead of "I want you to come over." Obviously she was no good, but he just couldn't shake her. They just broke up again (when she finally realized he wasn't going to propose and she'd moved here for nothing), and he said that when she came over to beg him to get back together, he made sure to stay 3 feet away from her (he made that mistake one of the previous times they broke up). OBVIOUSLY this relationship sucks, but there's history and sex and it's easier than finding someone new or breaking an old friend's heart. I just hope the break up lasts.

I'm not saying this is the same situation. We don't know Becky, and it doesn't sound like he's a terrible guy. I really hope she comes on here and says that they've gotten engaged and will live happily ever after and shows off her ring. I just worry that he's dissembling like my friend was with his girlfriend. When she moved here, he was excited . . . she always seemed to be the "one that got away." And then he felt obligated to keep the relationship going . . . she'd always tell him they had to give it a chance since she moved here just for him. He didn't want to hurt her feelings, but he sure as hell wasn't going to marry her. So a tenuous peace continued until the truth finally sunk in for her.

 

[diamondglee]

I dont think anyone is taking this personal. I think that people are frustrated because she came here looking for advice and empathy,which she got. She chose to share details of her relationship, yet didnt like what most of us saw. She''s waffled back and forth in her resolve and decisions, and in the end, though armed with much more information, she''s elected to stay in the same boat as she was when she first posted.

Although none of us are in her relationship, most of us have experienced this situation, or have seen it time and time again in those around us, and the outcome is usually the same.

She''s in denial because the truth hurts, and she is not ready to take action at this point. The best we can do now is withhold advice, and just be sypathetic ears to listen to her vent.

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 11/13/2006 11:18:59 AM
Author: Becky P

Date: 11/13/2006 10:44:35 AM
Author: janinegirly

*no response to YOUR issues which were driving you ''crazy'': ie will he follow through on his promise to be engaged before asking you to move again The bottom line is that we won''t be engaged before moving. It''s something that I have to accept. He does want to get engaged and marry me, but forcing him into a corner is not going to improve the situation.

This is the part that makes me cringe a little. I just can''t fathom the idea that making a decision to spend your life with the person you love is equivalent to being backed into a corner!!

A leap of faith, sure... but life is about choosing to move forward, even when its scary.... not facing those decisions by retreating backwards until you find yourself trapped with no way out.

 

[Mandarine]

ok, taking it personal was the wrong choice of words. I guess sometimes when I transalate things in my head they don''t make as much sense in English....what I mean is don''t take it to heart (the fact that we don''t see her taking our adcvice) and keep trying to convince her.

I know it is frustrating because we''ve all been there. We all have had friends/close ones that don''t listen and their mind is made up...and our heart breaks for them because it''s so clear for everyone.

I know I''ve been the one on the opposite side and at that time (I was way too young and naive) there was no way that anyone was going to convince me that I was wrong! that I needed to move on and leave my then BF because he was so wrong for me, that I needed to think of me first...and that love is not always enough. My friends told me. My sisters told me...everyone told me...but my mind was made up and I know they were all heart broken for me....but they all knew that even if they didn''t agree, they had to respect my decision. My best friend finally said (this is straight translation so it might not make much sense): "I''m done with this. You can still come to me and I will listen because I love you....but I''m done giving advice. At the end of the day you will eat $hit until you are ready to stop!...and you''re just not ready yet"

Not long after that conversation with my friend I saw it. I saw what everyone was saying....what was so clear to everyone but myself!.....boy was it hard!!! I was hurt, heartbroken and felt terrible for what I had done to myself. It took time to heal, a lot of thinking an re-evaluating my values, my feelings and myself. I think I HAD TO GO THROUGH THAT to become who I am today. I don''t regret it...I think it hapenned for a reason...somehow I needed to go through that to learn *something*...and I learned so many things....some of them not even relationship related, some things that just taught me to appreciate my family even more than I already did. I became a better person, more independent, more understanding of others, more sensible to the fact that sometimes we are not strong enough to see what''s righ in front of our eyes and what we really need is to know we have our families and friends to support us.

So I guess what I''m saying is, we need to respect her decision and hope for the best (and by the best I don''t mean he proposes...I mean that the best thing for Becky happens and she can really feel at peace).

I know you all have the best intentions at heart and you''re all much better "advice-givers" than I am...so you may disagree with me, but this is how I feel about it. I''m done trying to break down what Becky writes or put energy giving advice. I personally will still be here if she needs to vent or talk, but I''m done trying to convince her because I''m respecting her decision (not agreeing, respecting)...like my friend said to me..


M~

 

[IrishAngel7982]

Well said Mandarine. This is Becky''s life, and no matter how hard outsiders try to sway her from falling back into the pattern she''s shown us, all we can do is listen when she needs an empathetic ear.

Becky, if you''re still reading this, I hope you find the answers you''re looking for. I think most of us are just worried because we see the pattern that we''ve seen before with close friends, family members, or other ladies on PS. I''m sure there are wonderful aspects to your relationship, but all we''ve seen is what you''ve shared. Good luck sweetie and we all wish the best for you!

 

[Maria D]

Mandarine, I think you underestimate both your advice and your "translations" -- I think both are pretty darn good!

I especially like what your friend had to say: ""I''m done with this. You can still come to me and I will listen because I love you....but I''m done giving advice. At the end of the day you will eat $hit until you are ready to stop!...and you''re just not ready yet" That''s what best friends are for -- telling you like it is but still being there for you. I had a best friend once say to me "face it, he doesn''t want you anymore" when I was going on and on about how I went wrong and what I should do to get him back. That woke me right up! *he* doesn''t want *me* anymore? The schmuck!

 

[diamondfan]

I think that sometimes people know the answer in their heart and as much as logic would dictate, they are simply not ready to accept it. As caring people it is tough to see someone go down a path, whether it be for the first time or umpteenth time, because, like watching a car crash that is about to occur, we see things down the line and want to prevent a "crash" and protect our friend. The bottom line, though, is that we can not save people from themselves and some people have to take that journey, make mistakes, and we cannot detour them from their destiny. If someone seems hell bent on self destruction then I am terribly sad, and often I cannot continue to be there for them since it is clear that they are on a destructive path each time and it is tough to be part of it, even when you really care or especially if you do. I have a friend who always gets involved with guys who are not right for her. She falls hard and fast and they get freaked out and run, and she cannot see this pattern AT ALL. She is still single and it upsets her but she is the only one who cannot see the writing on the wall...

 

[TravelingGal]

Mandarine, I would never guess that English is not your first and only language. I can understand you just fine!

It''s a public forum folks, and we''re lucky that it''s moderated in a way that most people play nice (I do think that a small # of the posts were a bit rude, not just harsh or direct). And there are lots of people that are truly emphathetic in a way that I could never be. At the end of the day, I don''t know you from Larry. Thank goodness for those that aren''t like me and can offer an ear regardless of whether they see eye to eye or not.

But put yourself out there in a public forum and you are going to get lots of varying opinions. I do not need to respect your decision (btw Mandarine, this is no slight to what you said, because I know what you mean...I respect her right to MAKE her own decision) and I hope that I have the right to voice my disagreement. If you come here and whine and vent for pages and pages, agree with a lot of the advice, then get upset because people are agog that you''ve backtracked, don''t expect lovefest from me.

If she comes back with happy news, I will be thrilled for her. If she comes back with more angst, then I''ll can decide not to read it if it irritates me...and I will reserve the right to read it and post "excuse me, but I disagree with what you are saying/doing" in the politest way possible.

Yes, at this point, it seems like there nothing more to be said to Becky. But instead of being sympathetic or just listening to her vent, can I just say "SHEESH!!"

Oh look...my horse is dead.

 

[Mandarine]

Date: 11/13/2006 11:18:48 PM
Author: TravelingGal
Mandarine, I would never guess that English is not your first and only language. I can understand you just fine!

That''s because you can''t hear my accent...hehe...just kidding, it''s not TOO strong...but I do have one!

. I just tend to sometimes transalate things and in this case what I wanted to say was "no se lo tomen a pecho"...which is an expression we use in my country to say don''t take it to heart or something similar (no quite), it would translate as "don''t take it to chest"...hahaha...but since that didn''t make any sense, I said "don''t take it personal".

I know I will have people that disagree and some that agree with my reaction, but that''s ok. We are all different here and will all have diverse reactions. That is the beauty of a forum and that''s why I love it here! I feel like you all teach me so many "valuable lessons"....with your friends you know what to expect to hear or how you expect them to act. Here you don''t, so you can''t really get mad or walk away for people being themselves once you have opened up and asked for advice!. So Becky, I hope you understand this....even the harsh comments you received are just people that feel frustrated because they have spent energy into giving you advice for "nothing". I don''t think anyone is trying to be rude, they are just frustrated and want to somehow protect you from being hurt.

M~

 

[pyramid]

Date: 11/7/2006 8:38:52 AM
Author: Becky P
Thanks ladies for all the support. I know what I NEED to do, but I can already feel my resolve weakening. I need to stand strong on this - he is the one here with the big decisions, not me. I've told him more times than I can count that I would not be moving without being engaged. He either isn't listening or doesn't care - it seems selfish to me. If he were to get his way on this, I would move to NC with him, we'd have separate places and no engagement, nor any talk of WHEN an engagement would be forthcoming because he doesn't want to feel pressured by a deadline. Having it his way would mean that I had to compromise all of what I want and I'm not willing to do that at this point. He is thinking about the possibility of us moving there together and living together - he's going to talk to his dad about it today - but I'm not sure that would even work for me either... I just don't know. I feel sick today from all these questions swirling around in my head.

So Becky, you have told him more times than you can count that you would not be moving without being engaged, but he still plans that you are. He is not changing his life for you, but you have to upsticks and change your life for him once more and who knows maybe three more times again before you are 40. Do you think he would have moved to two different states for you and your job if you were giving him no committment?

I am sorry but the way I see it, if after 5 years of knowing you, he is not ready, he will never be ready. He may just not be the marrying type. He is 30, if he were 21 and knew you since you were 16 then I could understand it but at his age and knowing you for so long, he should be ready by now.

I know a couple at the moment who are getting plans drawn up for a 5 bedroom house, they are planning on having a family next year, she is 19 he is around the same age, they are not going to get engaged or ever get married because they say 'nobody is doing it anymore' (which is not true). The point is they are both happy with this, her mother has asked her about it and she says she will not change her mind ever and has always thought that she did not want to marry but have a family. She has spoken to her about what if she is left with children on her own, it does not seem to phase her and she is speaking very maturely about it apparently. You however, are not happy living in this arrangement and after 5 years you need to look at it seriously, not just move across the country again following after him.