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Well, Now Brett Kavanaugh Can Face His Accuser

redwood66 said:
Last night was quite emotional for a number of people including me. I apologize for my snark to those that are normally able to have a decent conversation.
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Don't do it, Red! Then I have to apologize too! :lol:
 
redwood66 said:
Should I post this every time someone posts from a left wing publication? No. I read what people post to see from another viewpoint which doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

Though it might up my post count considerably. LOL.

No. I won't be dictated to on what to post and where from.
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Point noted, I did read the article. Thank you for sharing, I just wanted to be sure that it was clear that this is a heavily skewed article and not representative of most Americans. I think that is part of the problem, everything has become so heavily skewed left or right that conversations can no longer be a productive middle ground exchange of thoughts. Conversations quickly devolve into the dems this or the repubs that, we need to get to a place where we can separate the issues from the politics and discuss each issue soley on its merits/facts and not bring our ideological baggage to the table. Guilty on both sides.

I also, want to apologize for any remarks that may have been snarky. These are extremely important issues and it is difficult not to get riled up.
 
Octo2005 said:
Point noted, I did read the article. Thank you for sharing, I just wanted to be sure that it was clear that this is a heavily skewed article and not representative of most Americans. I think that is part of the problem, everything has become so heavily skewed left or right that conversations can no longer be a productive middle ground exchange of thoughts. Conversations quickly devolve into the dems this or the repubs that, we need to get to a place where we can separate the issues from the politics and discuss each issue soley on its merits/facts and not bring our ideological baggage to the table. Guilty on both sides.

I also, want to apologize for any remarks that may have been snarky. These are extremely important issues and it is difficult not to get riled up.
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Thank you for this thoughtful post and I agree. Normally I am more middle of the road and have little trust in either side to do the right thing. But this circus surrounding the nomination really sticks in my craw when it has become apparent that the presumption of innocence is out the window for the parties against Kavanaugh. The rule of law must be protected because without it we have anarchy and chaos. When a sitting senator says that the accused must prove his innocence it makes me very afraid of where their loyalties lie because it does not appear they are with justice. Sexual abuse/crime is a very emotional subject and we all must do better to help those that are victims of it. But that cannot be at the loss of the foundation of our legal system. While I understand the view that this is a job interview, the process failed both of these people at the hands of certain individuals for purely political purposes. That is disgusting to me.
 
Octo2005 said:
Conversations quickly devolve into the dems this or the repubs that, we need to get to a place where we can separate the issues from the politics and discuss each issue soley on its merits/facts and not bring our ideological baggage to the table. Guilty on both sides.
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I wholeheartedly agree, and I know you were responding to @redwood66 but I want to address this, with all sincere & due respect to ‘all sides’.

One cannot have a civil, respectful discussion about sensitive topics such as this without first giving due respect to the beliefs and positions of others. I don’t mean agreeing with or subscribing to others’ beliefs or positions; rather, simply and civilly respecting the fact that they hold those beliefs/positions sincerely and in good faith, and not as a means to be evil, hateful, biased, mysoginistic, xenophobic, sexist, racist, or whatever other label one might toss around in society. IF you do that, then personal attacks and allegations of party bias should be kept at bay ... by a reasonable person ... and a discussion leading toward solutions vs. attacks can begin.

Here, however, as appears to also be the case with the rampant protests going on in DC at the moment (as well as in other cities in this country), many don’t have respect for others beliefs, and they are not interested in having a civil, respectful discussion because neither is possible when you insist on shouting in someone’s face and physically assaulting them in an effort to shove your views down their throat to the point they must swallow them in order to breathe.

There is nothing civil nor respectful about what I see happening, and as I’ve said before - if you don’t demonstrate respect for others, you should be under no illusions that you are due any ... regardless of your gender, age, ethnicity, orientation, personal life experiences, etc., whether on the steps of the Supreme Court, in the hallways of the Senate building, or on a jewelry forum.
 
redwood66 said:
Should I post this every time someone posts from a left wing publication? No. I read what people post to see from another viewpoint which doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

Though it might up my post count considerably. LOL.

No. I won't be dictated to on what to post and where from.
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I totally agree with this point of view. When I saw the piece by Mrs. Scalia I thought, "Well of course she would think the way she does. Antonin Scalia of all people!". But I think that red enriched the thread by posting a point of view that we might not, otherwise, have been seen here. What is the use of our posting only mainstream views? None of us would ever be challenging any others of us to think! In my opinion, as long as the discussion is civil and not filled with hate speech, then the more diverse it is the better!

AGBF
 
redwood66 said:
No. I won't be dictated to on what to post and where from.
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Your preposition is dangling.

(Warning: I had a rough afternoon yesterday and am compensating by being silly today so please don't take my net nannying seriously.)
 
Matata said:
Your preposition is dangling.

(Warning: I had a rough afternoon yesterday and am compensating by being silly today so please don't take my net nannying seriously.)
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I know but at least I keep my participles in line most of the time. :lol:
 
AGBF said:
I totally agree with this point of view. When I saw the piece by Mrs. Scalia I thought, "Well of course she would think the way she does. Antonin Scalia of all people!". But I think that red enriched the thread by posting a point of view that we might not, otherwise, have been seen here. What is the use of our posting only mainstream views? None of us would ever be challenging any others of us to think! In my opinion, as long as the discussion is civil and not filled with hate speech, then the more diverse it is the better!

AGBF
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Thank you. But now here is where I give you a push back on your thoughts. You should not fall into the trap of thinking your view is the mainstream one. I keep myself in line most of the time by seeing this division as on equal footing and equally divided.
 
Red, I can always separate diamonds, people and politics. I was posting so fast I wondered if I DID screw up your post. hahahahahaha. OH well.

added: no worries be happy, :)

redwood66 said:
Last night was quite emotional for a number of people including me. I apologize for my snark to those that are normally able to have a decent conversation.
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Regarding the comment about the biases of various presses, and the need to read alternate sources, I agree.

However the mainstream media is wildly biased against Conservatives, to the point where one has to pick through a minefield of DNC groupthink every time one reads The NY Times or listens to NPR.

Today’s NY Times App lists all the day’s editorials down the right hand column. Here they are (yesterday’s were similar):
-The Supreme Court’s Legitimacy Crisis
-How Brett Kavanaugh Failed
-A Young Activist’s Advice: Vote, Shave your head, and cry if you need to
-When your friend is your rapist
-Trump and the Aristocracy of Fraud
-I thought Men might do better than this
-A Complete National Disgrace

I ask you: if your teenager were reading The NY Times or watching CNN, what world view might he think was the right one, or in my case, growing up in a culture where everyone read the NYT daily, it was considered the ONLY ONE. Then, when you leave the house or your neighborhood you can’t believe it when other people vote differently, or think differently about issues. “But the REAL WORLD should think the way I’ve been taught is correct...!”

So I agree, please do read broadly so you can get a sense of alternate issues and opinions. My problem has always been trying to get neutral, on point, unbiased and accurate information in such a polarized and politically divisive media environment (where you have to keep secret the media you follow if you go against the status quo).
 
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@LightBright thank you for your excellent post. I just read an interesting article in The Atlantic and want to post it in it's own thread so those who wish can discuss.
 
redwood66 said:
Thank you. But now here is where I give you a push back on your thoughts. You should not fall into the trap of thinking your view is the mainstream one. I keep myself in line most of the time by seeing this division as on equal footing and equally divided.
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red, You misunderstood me. I didn't say my view was the mainstream one! I said "what is the use of posting only mainstream views". I've been accused of being a leftwing extremist!!! ;))
 
AGBF said:
red, You misunderstood me. I didn't say my view was the mainstream one! I said "what is the use of posting only mainstream views". I've been accused of being a leftwing extremist!!! ;))
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Maybe I misunderstood but you did post this:
AGBF said:
But I think that red enriched the thread by posting a point of view that we might not, otherwise, have been seen here. What is the use of our posting only mainstream views? None of us would ever be challenging any others of us to think!
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This indicates to me that my view is not mainstream but yours (collective) is, does it not? Of course you will correct me if I am wrong. ;-) The "your" in my first post was meant as a collective not you personally.



BTW are you a leftwing extremist? :P2
 
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I am not a political animal and although I've followed the hearing, I don't know all the ins and outs of it all.

I just want to say that it appears to me this guy was tried in the court of public opinion, that he seemed to be guilty until found innocent, and it reminded me of a total witch-hunt. If it's true, it can't be proved because it happened three decades ago. You cannot up-end someone's life on the basis of an accusation, but that's what I saw happening. I felt as if everyone had forgotten the phrase "reasonable doubt." I didn't like the jeering, sneering public bearpit of that hearing. It was like the modern equivalent of the Romans throwing the Christians to the lions. I am very disturbed about the amount of people that are 110% per cent utterly convinced that he's guilty, and disturbed about the way there isn't even a microscopic glimmer of doubt in some people's minds. What if he's innocent?

The surety of his guilt based on an accusation is what I find disturbing. There doesn't seem to be any balance for some people. I'm talking about some people I work with who believe, without question, everything thing Dr. Ford said and basically want KV's life to be ruined. With no real proof. Talk about a mob mentality. It's wrong.
 
not sure there is mainstream anymore

not sure
redwood66 said:
Maybe I misunderstood but you did post this:

This indicates to me that my view is not mainstream but yours (collective) is, does it not? Of course you will correct me if I am wrong. ;-) The "your" in my first post was meant as a collective not you personally.



BTW are you a leftwing extremist? :P2
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Jambalaya said:
I am not a political animal and although I've followed the hearing, I don't know all the ins and outs of it all.

I just want to say that it appears to me this guy was tried in the court of public opinion, that he seemed to be guilty until found innocent, and it reminded me of a total witch-hunt. If it's true, it can't be proved because it happened three decades ago. You cannot up-end someone's life on the basis of an accusation, but that's what I saw happening. I felt as if everyone had forgotten the phrase "reasonable doubt." I didn't like the jeering, sneering public bearpit of that hearing. It was like the modern equivalent of the Romans throwing the Christians to the lions. I am very disturbed about the amount of people that are 110% per cent utterly convinced that he's guilty, and disturbed about the way there isn't even a microscopic glimmer of doubt in some people's minds. What if he's innocent?

The surety of his guilt based on an accusation is what I find disturbing. There doesn't seem to be any balance for some people. I'm talking about some people I work with who believe, without question, everything thing Dr. Ford said and basically want KV's life to be ruined. With no real proof. Talk about a mob mentality. It's wrong.
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I think you misunderstand then, at least my point of view. I never said that I was 100% certain that he is guilty of these things. I did say that I find her to be far more credible and find some of his testimony to be clear attempts to deceive.

Guilty until proven innocent does not really apply here, this is not a court of law. Each of these two individuals deserve the courtesy of being taken at their word. When you start to become evasive in your answers, when you give answers that do not ring true, you loose credibility. It is very difficult to take someone at their word after you question their credibility.

Whether or not you believe he is innocent of the accuastions, his behavior during the hearing certainly raised many other equally concerning things about him, His temperament, his respect for the judicial process and his dancing with the truth do not reflect highly on his character. And why is no one concerned about his unproven accusations against the Clinton's. She has been investigated ad nauseam and cleared of any wrong doing, yet the far right continues to vilify her. Not that she is perfect, but she is accused of many horrible things that she is not guilty of and has actually been cleared several times, yet we have people claiming that conservatives are being fed to the lions and turning a blind eye at best and at worst continuing to spread things that have been investigated for months (not 3 days) and no evidence of wrong doing was found.
 
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Why is everyone acting like this was a trial? There are BETTER JUDGES TO CHOOSE FROM. Judges that haven't been tied to sexual assault allegations. Unless anything can be proven no one is going to jail or losing their livelihood. He's not entitled to serve on the SCOTUS, it's an honor that must be given to someone with an impeccable track record!
 
redwood66 said:
This concerns me deeply. The backlash at Kaplan by the FB employees is not indicative of a world I want to be a part of and is an attempt at mob rule. If they push him out then we have gone over the cliff. He should never have apologized IMO.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/04/technology/facebook-kavanaugh-nomination-kaplan.html
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I’ll be blunt about it - this is ridiculous! #1) FB’s employees should focus more on protecting users information and less about government politics in the workplace; and 2) I bet the employees who feel slighted or whatever by Kaplan’s choice to support his friend would have raised one helluva a stink if they wanted off to protest Kav’s nomination and were told ‘no’. :roll:
 
Elliot86 said:
Why is everyone acting like this was a trial? There are BETTER JUDGES TO CHOOSE FROM. Judges that haven't been tied to sexual assault allegations. Unless anything can be proven no one is going to jail or losing their livelihood. He's not entitled to serve on the SCOTUS, it's an honor that must be given to someone with an impeccable track record!
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Not to mention that anyone who lies repeatedly under oath shouldn't be on SCOTUS. It'z bizarre that this isn't a bipartisan fact.
 
Elliot86 said:
Why is everyone acting like this was a trial? There are BETTER JUDGES TO CHOOSE FROM. Judges that haven't been tied to sexual assault allegations. Unless anything can be proven no one is going to jail or losing their livelihood. He's not entitled to serve on the SCOTUS, it's an honor that must be given to someone with an impeccable track record!
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So I don't totally disagree with you. However you really want Trump to pick a much more conservative judge? Because thats exactly what will happen.
 
The irony of this video is amusing yet deeply disturbing all at the same time. A bunch of anti-Kav libs protesting the nomination all in the name of “supporting women” ... while reciting what an “old white man” tells them to say like a bunch of robots. :doh:

https://twitter.com/jason_howerton/status/1048288609080680448?s=20
 
Elliot86 said:
Why is everyone acting like this was a trial? There are BETTER JUDGES TO CHOOSE FROM. Judges that haven't been tied to sexual assault allegations. Unless anything can be proven no one is going to jail or losing their livelihood. He's not entitled to serve on the SCOTUS, it's an honor that must be given to someone with an impeccable track record!
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I know! It's bizarre the h***-on they have for this guy. So weird..... OH wait, that's right- Donnie will safe.

AND it's the ones who claimed "I don't like Trump but I want to own the libs" who are happiest. Doesn't even make sense- but they are rabid for some kind of payback for god knows what. I cannot WAIT for November.

I'm actually not upset he will be confirmed. If he WASN'T confirmed, it actually would have been worse for the elections coming up. ;)2 I'm actually ok with this. You'll see....

Because I want the house in November....:appl:
 
Kavanaugh lied under oath. He committed perjury, and it's ok. These are the people you are arguing with. Save your breath, your sanity, and your time. VOTE in November:)
 
redwood66 said:
Maybe I misunderstood but you did post this:
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AGBF said: ↑
But I think that red enriched the thread by posting a point of view that we might not, otherwise, have been seen here. What is the use of our posting only mainstream views? None of us would ever be challenging any others of us to think!


redwood66 said:
This indicates to me that my view is not mainstream but yours (collective) is, does it not? Of course you will correct me if I am wrong. ;-) The "your" in my first post was meant as a collective not you personally.
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I do have to correct you. ;))

I meant that you had posted a non-mainstream view and that when someone did that without being uncivil or engaging in hate speech that the poster challenged others on the board to think. I certainly hope that at least from time to time my postings are not so mundane as to lull my readers to sleep! Provoking others to think is, I believe, a good thing. I would like to be considered someone who, at least once in a while, had a thought or read a source that was not "mainstream"!

AGBF

PS-I do not consider myself "a leftwing extremist", but I do not mind being teased by conservative friends who do not mean me harm, friends who know that I am in actuality nonviolent and law-abiding.
 
soxfan said:
I know! It's bizarre the h***-on they have for this guy. So weird..... OH wait, that's right- Donnie will safe.

AND it's the ones who claimed "I don't like Trump but I want to own the libs" who are happiest. Doesn't even make sense- but they are rabid for some kind of payback for god knows what. I cannot WAIT for November.

I'm actually not upset he will be confirmed. If he WASN'T confirmed, it actually would have been worse for the elections coming up. ;)2 I'm actually ok with this. You'll see....

Because I want the house in November....:appl:
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The thing I cannot for the life of me understand is the majority of Trump supporters vote against the very things that will make their lives better.

I have a father who actually think Trump will save their lives. It is so ridiculous. These people couldn’t come up with $5,000 if their life depended on it. They are barely living month to month. They have no savings, no 401K, no stocks and they actually think Trump is all for helping them. His wife’s grandchildren have no medical insurance. They actually think Trump understands their struggles. It’s mind boggling my mind.
 
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