What is fair price for estate Tiffany sapphire ring?

[Green with Envy]

I only have two pics, but this is a 4.2 sapphire with .70 tcw half moon sides. The stone has an AGL report stating no heat with Burma origin, but I have no
copy of it yet.. The setting is marked Tiffany , but I am told it is a bit worn off from wear.

What might be a fair price for the ring? No other paperwork besides the agl report.

 

[eastjavaman]

I would think $8000 would be a good number.
Are you buying this piece or selling it?

 

[Green with Envy]

Someone is offering to sell it to me, I can have a 7 day inspection. If it were 8K... I would probably not think twice!

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

You've looked at First Dibs...right? Tough to make comparisons since in the very limited sample there, the carat weight and origin of stones differ.

But saw the sapphire ring in question posted for sale there.....it's a beauty!

cheers--Sharon

 

[T L]

Gorgeous sapphire, and if it truly is Burma, no heat, I would imagine it would be at least $4K/ct, and tack on another 20% for the Tiffany name, and another $2K for the setting, so perhaps around $20K, but I'm guessing without seeing it. I'm judging the quality from the photo, and yes, for $8K, it would be a bargain if it were truly as advertised. Without authentication from Tiffany though, I wouldn't buy it for the Tiffany name. They can perhaps authenticate it from their archives.

 

[minousbijoux]

My only experience with Tiffany is pricing an unheated blue sapphire ring that I was debating buying for a significant birthday - thank God PS came into my life! Anyway, that ring was definitely that Burma-type color: a stunning, vivid, unheated 5+ ct blue sapphire in a halo setting. IIRC, this was at least 5 or 6 years ago, and the price was $40K or so. Fwiw - don't know if there is any extrapolation you can do from this.

 

[eastjavaman]

HI:

You've looked at First Dibs...right? Tough to make comparisons since in the very limited sample there, the carat weight and origin of stones differ.

But saw the sapphire ring in question posted for sale there.....it's a beauty!

cheers--Sharon

Hi Sharon, First Dibs got a lot of nice stuffs there , particularly this dealer : SHREVE, CRUMP & LOW, reputable dealer?
Leon Mege has some nice sapphires, but these 2 dealers are not in Vendor Reference, so I wonder whether anyone has dealt with them in the past?

 

[LoversKites]

HI:

You've looked at First Dibs...right? Tough to make comparisons since in the very limited sample there, the carat weight and origin of stones differ.

But saw the sapphire ring in question posted for sale there.....it's a beauty!

cheers--Sharon

Hi Sharon, First Dibs got a lot of nice stuffs there , particularly this dealer : SHREVE, CRUMP & LOW, reputable dealer?
Leon Mege has some nice sapphires, but these 2 dealers are not in Vendor Reference, so I wonder whether anyone has dealt with them in the past?

A lot of people use Leon on RT. Many reviews and opinions about him there. Not so much for his CS, but since he's a reputable dealer, and since i hope one would ask for an AGL report on a big sapphire purchase, i think it's fine to buy from him. You won't get a bargain though

 

[MollyMalone]

Hi Sharon, First Dibs got a lot of nice stuffs there , particularly this dealer : SHREVE, CRUMP & LOW, reputable dealer?
Leon Mege has some nice sapphires, but these 2 dealers are not in Vendor Reference, so I wonder whether anyone has dealt with them in the past?

Shreve, Crump & Low is Boston's oldest jewelry store; it's a high-end retailer which also has long specialized in estate-antique pieces. It's one of the places where we shopped, years ago, for my engagement ring (I wanted a vintage or antique, emerald ring, we then were living in Boston) & I have browsed there since that time.

In my experience, you certainly won't score a steal there. But the estate-antique jewelry staff is knowledgeable -- and, as with, e.g., Lang in San Francisco, the gap between their prices for estate-antique pieces & what I think would be fair has narrowed in recent years as the demand (and prices) for such jewelry has climbed.

P.S. TL's estimate of $2000 for a well made, platinum semi-mount with 2 decent, G - VS2 half-moon diamonds of ~.70 tcw strikes me as unexpectedly low, even for one without the Tiffany provenance.

 

[chrono]

No receipt? No box? Does the hallmark check out as genuine? All these have a strong bearing on pricing but I'm unsure what the pricing would be for a Tiffany ring that has no paperwork. Does this essentially drop it down to "ordinary" pricing? The picture of the ring with the white background is of the actual ring and not a Tiffany web picture, is it?

 

[T L]

P.S. TL's estimate of $2000 for a well made, platinum semi-mount with 2 decent, G - VS2 half-moon diamonds of ~.70 tcw strikes me as unexpectedly low, even for one without the Tiffany provenance.

I said $20,000, not $2000, but even $20K would be the minimum it would be worth second hand.

 

[eastjavaman]

P.S. TL's estimate of $2000 for a well made, platinum semi-mount with 2 decent, G - VS2 half-moon diamonds of ~.70 tcw strikes me as unexpectedly low, even for one without the Tiffany provenance.

I said $20,000, not $2000, but even $20K would be the minimum it would be worth second hand.

Thanks LK,MM
@TL, I think MM is talking about this part //and another $2K for the setting// from your opinion.

 

[T L]

P.S. TL's estimate of $2000 for a well made, platinum semi-mount with 2 decent, G - VS2 half-moon diamonds of ~.70 tcw strikes me as unexpectedly low, even for one without the Tiffany provenance.

I said $20,000, not $2000, but even $20K would be the minimum it would be worth second hand.

Thanks LK,MM
@TL, I think MM is talking about this part //and another $2K for the setting// from your opinion.

Oh, I see, well second hand, I've seen rings like that go for $2K at a minimum. I do a lot of "second hand" searching myself. If Tiffany, it would be worth more, but I said, add another 20% for the Tiffany provenance.

 

[MollyMalone]

No receipt? No box? Does the hallmark check out as genuine? All these have a strong bearing on pricing but I'm unsure what the pricing would be for a Tiffany ring that has no paperwork. Does this essentially drop it down to "ordinary" pricing? The picture of the ring with the white background is of the actual ring and not a Tiffany web picture, is it?

2nd photo in original post is from Shreve, Crump & Low's listing on 1stDibs for $48,000:
https://www.1stdibs.com/jewelry/rin...tiffany-co-no-heat-sapphire-ring/id-j_153118/

I can't seem to find that ring on Shreve's web site; this non-Tiffany is the closest I'm seeing there, 3.67 ct sapphire set in platinum with 2 half-moons of .73 tcw priced at $28,500:
http://ch.shrevecrumpandlow.com/det...inum&Stone=Oval Brilliant&Style=New&Type=Ring

 

[Green with Envy]

These are the dealers photos. I was concerned about the lack of saturation? at 6'o'clock... and is there a reason why it seems to do dark in the center of the stone just beyond the table center? But on the hand it looks better.

I can negotiate it below the original 1st dibs asking $... but I still think it is pricey. As I understand... no Tiffany papers or box. Just some worn Tiffancy &Co on the inside shank. I called Tiffany and they said older pieces are not necessarily numbered like they do now.

 

[chrono]

Molly,
Thanks for the link. The additional pictures are helpful. I can't even see the stamp in the pictures though. I suppose SC&L are reputable so you are confident that this is a genuine Tiffany ring even if it has no paperwork? The non-Tiffany 3.67 ct sapphire ring has much finer colouration. Given that much of the resale value of Tiffany is due to the name and that this has no paperwork and also an unclear hallmark, does anyone know how heavily such a ring will be discounted, especially should GwE desire to resell it one day?

 

[chrono]

These are the dealers photos. I was concerned about the lack of saturation? at 6'o'clock... and is there a reason why it seems to do dark in the center of the stone just beyond the table center? But on the hand it looks better.

I can negotiate it below the original 1st dibs asking $... but I still think it is pricey. As I understand... no Tiffany papers or box. Just some worn Tiffancy &Co on the inside shank. I called Tiffany and they said older pieces are not necessarily numbered like they do now.

Overall, the saturation of the sapphire is nice but not wow. The lighter coloured portion at 6 o'clock could just be lighting/scintillation and not colour zoning based on the hand shot picture. The dark centre could be the camera/head shadow. Again, all these are just speculation based on past experience with reading gem photography. A video would be helpful but most vendors do not provide one. I don't think Tiffany will authenticate any of their jewellery anymore from what I've been reading in RT.

 

[T L]

At almost $50K, that seems like the price Tiffany would have sold that ring at, if new.

I personally don't believe in paying as much as a new Tiffany piece when sold second hand. The only exception would be true antique Tiffany pieces from the Deco period and before, or that of his predecessor, Louis Comfort Tiffany, who also designed jewelry (if adjusting prices for inflation). His pieces go for $$$$$$$$ at auction and are worth a great deal because of provenance.

 

[MollyMalone]

Molly,
Thanks for the link. The additional pictures are helpful. I can't even see the stamp in the pictures though. I suppose SC&L are reputable so you are confident that this is a genuine Tiffany ring even if it has no paperwork? The non-Tiffany 3.67 ct sapphire ring has much finer colouration. Given that much of the resale value of Tiffany is due to the name and that this has no paperwork and also an unclear hallmark, does anyone know how heavily such a ring will be discounted, especially should GwE desire to resell it one day?

GWE could ask for a photo of the inside of the shank, showing the Tiffany stamp; it can be closer to a shoulder rather than centered at the bottom. Of course, a stamp is no ironclad guarantee of authenticity. But SC&L is very reputable (a PSer, don't now remember who, did have a bad repair/restoration experience with their bench) & I seriously doubt Shreve got snookered into buying a fake for resale or is knowingly trying to palm off an imposter.

 

[T L]

These are the dealers photos. I was concerned about the lack of saturation? at 6'o'clock... and is there a reason why it seems to do dark in the center of the stone just beyond the table center? But on the hand it looks better.

I can negotiate it below the original 1st dibs asking $... but I still think it is pricey. As I understand... no Tiffany papers or box. Just some worn Tiffancy &Co on the inside shank. I called Tiffany and they said older pieces are not necessarily numbered like they do now.

Overall, the saturation of the sapphire is nice but not wow. The lighter coloured portion at 6 o'clock could just be lighting/scintillation and not colour zoning based on the hand shot picture. The dark centre could be the camera/head shadow. Again, all these are just speculation based on past experience with reading gem photography. A video would be helpful but most vendors do not provide one. I don't think Tiffany will authenticate any of their jewellery anymore from what I've been reading in RT.

If that's true, and there is no reputable paperwork, then there is no way I would pay for the provenance.

 

[chrono]

Does anyone know the price of this new 5 ct Tiffany sapphire ring?
http://www.tiffany.com/Shopping/Item.aspx?fromGrid=1&sku=28133189&mcat=148204&cid=287466&search_params=p+1-n+10000-c+287466-s+1-r+-t+-ni+1-x+-lr+-hr+-ri+-mi+-pp+700+6&search=0&origin=browse&searchkeyword=

 

[T L]

But SC&L is very reputable (a PSer, don't now remember who, did have a bad repair/restoration experience with their bench) & I seriously doubt Shreve got snookered into buying a fake for resale or is knowingly trying to palm off an imposter.

Even if they are a reputable vendor, it doesn't do the consumer much good if there is no paperwork. What if the consumer wanted to sell it one day as a true Tiffany piece, then they would be out of luck.

 

[chrono]

But SC&L is very reputable (a PSer, don't now remember who, did have a bad repair/restoration experience with their bench) & I seriously doubt Shreve got snookered into buying a fake for resale or is knowingly trying to palm off an imposter.

Even if they are a reputable vendor, it doesn't do the consumer much good if there is no paperwork. What if the consumer wanted to sell it one day as a true Tiffany piece, then they would be out of luck.

That is also my concern. She has to pay for the Tiffany name now but when selling it, she might be forced to sell it at a non-Tiffany price because it has no paperwork.

 

[T L]

Does anyone know the price of this new 5 ct Tiffany sapphire ring?
http://www.tiffany.com/Shopping/Item.aspx?fromGrid=1&sku=28133189&mcat=148204&cid=287466&search_params=p+1-n+10000-c+287466-s+1-r+-t+-ni+1-x+-lr+-hr+-ri+-mi+-pp+700+6&search=0&origin=browse&searchkeyword=

There's an antique one here, with a stone almost 13 carats, and the Bonhams auction estimate is 40 to 60K. See lot 95. Good price estimate actually, but the stone is three times as large. I wonder how much it went for.

http://www.jewelsdujour.com/2013/09/bonhams-fine-jewelry-new-york-october-17th-2013/

 

[pregcurious]

I used to live in Boston, and Shreve Crump & Lowe has horrible customer service. If you aren't dressed up, they are rude, especially if you are a young woman, like I was when I tried to shop there. They try to push the goods they have it stock and refuse to special order. I would never buy from them, and would find something at another store to avoid buying there.

 

[MollyMalone]

But SC&L is very reputable (a PSer, don't now remember who, did have a bad repair/restoration experience with their bench) & I seriously doubt Shreve got snookered into buying a fake for resale or is knowingly trying to palm off an imposter.

Even if they are a reputable vendor, it doesn't do the consumer much good if there is no paperwork. What if the consumer wanted to sell it one day as a true Tiffany piece, then they would be out of luck.

My comment was in response to that particular query from Chrono.

Not everyone purchases a piece of jewelry with an eye to reselling it (I never have) -- and there are indeed people who buy a ring that isn't "papered" because it pleases them, for whatever reasons; Shreve wouldn't have taken the ring in unless they deemed it marketable. But based on what GEW has said so far about it, this doesn't seem like a makes-my-heart-sing, "forever" ring in her view.

P.S. for preg: I know there are some complaints like yours on Yelp, That's never been my experience there, but I've always proceeded directly to the estate-vintage section of their several stores, where the staff and service were above reproach, even tho' I did not make a purchase.

 

[MollyMalone]

Does anyone know the price of this new 5 ct Tiffany sapphire ring?
http://www.tiffany.com/Shopping/Item.aspx?fromGrid=1&sku=28133189&mcat=148204&cid=287466&search_params=p+1-n+10000-c+287466-s+1-r+-t+-ni+1-x+-lr+-hr+-ri+-mi+-pp+700+6&search=0&origin=browse&searchkeyword=

Think $89,000 but wouldn't swear to it.

 

[MollyMalone]

There's an antique one here, with a stone almost 13 carats, and the Bonhams auction estimate is 40 to 60K. See lot 95. Good price estimate actually, but the stone is three times as large. I wonder how much it went for.
http://www.jewelsdujour.com/2013/09/bonhams-fine-jewelry-new-york-october-17th-2013/

It sold for $93,750.00

 

[T L]

Not everyone purchases a piece of jewelry with an eye to reselling it (I never have) .

What about their heirs? I would never pay for a provenance without reputable paperwork because at some point, someone may want to recoup the value they paid for the provenance, the original buyer, or their heirs.

 

[chrono]

I don't purchase with the intent to resell but I do take resale value into consideration.

MM,
Thanks for the dollar figures. No idea where you got them but I'm astounded at the Tiffany price.