Anyone here prefer NOT to have a

[sjz]

Date: 7/7/2005 12:12:34 AM
Author: Mara

Date: 7/6/2005 11:03:11 PM
Author: sjz

I''ve read a lot of posts where people compare their pets to children. I have both pets and kids. I love my pets and I love my kids. But it is NOT the same. I don''t think that anyone should think that they can substitue the love you give and receive from a pet for the kind of bonds you would have with children. I''m not saying that anyone who doesn''t truly want kids should have them. Not at all. I don''t think less of anyone who makes the choice not to have children. And I sure don''t think less of someone who doesn''t want pets. But the kind of love you have for a pet is not even close to how you love a child. It''s all love, but it''s very different IMO.

I was waiting for someone with kids to say this...

I don''t know that anyone is comparing the love from or of a pet to one of an actual child...nor is anyone ''substituting''...some people just don''t want kids and others are not sure. But they are sure they adore their pets....

And I was waiting for a post like this one...lol. Not saying anyone on here is claiming this, but I have actually run into people in my life who claim that they love their pets exactly the same, or even MORE than I love my kids. I just cannot fathom it. Like I said, I have both pets and children. I actually pets before I had any kids. I love both very much. But there is just NO comparisonin loving a pet to the way you love your child. Some people actually do think that they are substituting pets for children, and treat their pets very much like children. That''s fine, to each his own. I treat my pets in a very loving and special way, and I care for them and adore them just as much as the next person. But my kids always come first and are treated better and loved differently than the pets.

I reiterate, I understand that some people do not want kids, or are not sure. And that''s cool. But I''m telling you, there are people out there who think that pets are on the same level as children, and I just don''t agree with that. It''s like comparing apples and oranges. And as I said, many people have a hard time liking kids, or feeling anything for other people''s kids, but would NOT feel that way if they were to have children of their own. I am one of those people who''s always had a hard time getting the warm fuzzies for other people''s kids. The only children I feel any kind of love or affection other than my own kids, or even much of a liking for, are my own nieces and nephews and one little girl who is a good friend of my daughter''s. Other than that, I can pretty much take kids or leave them...lol. On the other hand, I have very rarely met a dog or a cat that I didn''t absolutely fall in love with. I''ve always been a HUGE animal lover. But I know, now that I have kids, that no pet would ever begin to hold the place in my heart nor could I feel the SAME kind of love for a pet as I do for my kids. That''s all I''m saying.

 

[Dancing Fire]

one thing about my pet parrot,he don''t ask me to buy him sneakers and jeans every two weeks.

 

[Mara]

I think that children bring something different to a relationship than a pet, and yes the type of love you feel must be different for something you actually produced from your body! But I treat Portia like my child because she IS my baby. I call her my daughter...

I don''t see her as a ''substitution'' for a child...we may still have children later or maybe we won''t...because maybe having Portia or other dogs like her will fulfill us. But she has brought so much to our lives that we never expected, probably much like a human child would regardless of what you expect.

I find it interesting that there are so many articles out there on how people are forgoing children to keep pets and treat them as their kids. To each their own...

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 2:25:27 AM
Author: Mara
I think that children bring something different to a relationship than a pet, and yes the type of love you feel must be different for something you actually produced from your body! But I treat Portia like my child because she IS my baby.

Well, in my case my daughter was not produced by my body. She and the dog both came via an adoption.

In my opinion, one reason children are not like dogs is because, as sjz implied, dogs are a lot easier to love! Deeply love. Without all that pesky ambivalence that comes with parenthood.

Children are more complex and demanding than dogs, and decent parents want to "do right" by them. That isn't easy. It involves giving and cuddling and correcting dreadful behavior in such a way that one teaches what is right without showing loss of love. I often want to throw my daughter out a window. I can honestly say I never feel this way about my dog! He is pure good for me, except when he is suffering. He is the one in this house I want to lie down and cuddle with. And if I show up at his bed, no matter what his mood, he is glad either to cuddle or to run and get me a bone.

The child thing brings much more trouble but also a deeper (for me, at least) satisfaction.

I once read (in what I am sure was a thoroughly unscientific poll) in some women's magazine that women with children had less satisfaction in their their daily lives than women without children, but a deeper sense of satisfaction with their lives.

I am sure that if one finds satisfaction-deep satisfaction-from a relationship with a beloved spouse or from a job into which one puts great love and energy-that those things can also produce deep satisfaction.

I needed to have a baby. I couldn't live (a fulfilling life) without one. I needed to have that experience, that pouring into a person all the thought, attention, and emotion involved in being a good mother. I think that (for me) that women's magazine poll held true. I got the satisfaction I craved from having my daughter. Life with her became routine, but when she first came home I thought I had made an awful mistake! This baby was here and she was never going to go away! There was no way out! No other person to whom I could give her where she would have "a good home" if things became complicated. I never felt so trapped in my life! But people told me I wasn't the first mother to have felt this...and then the baby became life. She is here just as I am here.

What a ramble! Sorry. But then again, why am I apologizing? Perhaps no one is reading this!

Deb

 

[icekid]

Date: 7/6/2005 11:18:43 PM
Author: AGBF

I was heartbroken when we were trying to conceive and, each month, I realized we had not. I had wanted a baby with blue eyes (like yours). My husband has blue eyes and so does my mother. Mine are hazel/green, but I knew we had a good shot at having a blue-eyed baby.

When we couldn''t conceive I decided I wanted to adopt a beautiful Korean baby like the ones I had seen other couples adopt. When I called some agencies, however, I found that Korea was ''closed'' as a source of adoption. I was told we could adopt from Latin America.

I was skeptical about a baby from Latin America. I had seen Korean babies. A South American baby? So I attended some socials wihout (and later with) my husband (who was very unenthusiastic about adopting!).

I fell in love with the beautiful Indian girls from Bolivia with the round faces, huge eyes, and the straight black hair! I felt they were the most beautiful children I had ever seen! I wanted an Indian baby!

So we put in all our paperwork and when the call came, I flew to Colombia alone. (My husband was in Italy and would have to join me from there.)

I went to the home of Ximena Lleras Puga, daughter of a former President of Colombia...sans husband...rather than to the orphanage. My daughter''s foster mother put my daughter into my arms. I couldn''t believe how beautiful she was! By far the most beautiful baby on earth. Fair skin. Straight brown hair. Blue eyes. Seven weeks old and perfect.

I thanked God then, and I have ever since, that we were unable to conceive .

Deb, who went on to adopt her yellow Lab when he was two. I came to realize that no creatures enter our family except through adoption .

oh, you sound like me! I would be more than happy to ONLY adopt children, as I want one from India and one from China and one from...

but my bf is insisting that we have at least one that is biologically ours though. so I suppose I will probably appease him. (someday!)

your daughter is beautiful. I think adoption is such a special thing!

 

[jellybean]

Very interesting topic.

What bothers me is when I see people treat their pets better than their own children or better than themselves.

We fill a lot of veternary prescriptions at our pharmacy b/c we are right down the street from an animal shelter & vet clinic. Since pet prescriptions are not covered under one''s medical or prescription insurance, people have to pay the retail price for them, and depending on the medication, it can be pretty expensive. But my experience has been that people don''t think twice about paying the retail price for a prescription for their pets, but will complain and moan and yell at me about their co-pay for their own or their child''s prescription.

Here''s an example: the vet called in a prescription for a medication that dissolves gall stones for one man''s dog. For one month worth of medication it was about $300. I called the man to tell him how expensive the medication was so he didn''t have a fit when he came in to pick it up. He wasn''t upset at all; he was like "well she really needs it". He also asked if his blood pressure medication was ready. I told him it was but his co-pay had increased from $3 to $5. That''s when he got mad and demanded I call his doctor to change to one of the medications that had a $3 copay.

I see things like this quite often.

Now I don''t mean to ruffle any feathers with this. I too have had pets and children and for me there is no comparison.

 

[Momoftwo]

I have had pets and I have raised two wonderful sons who were both planned and wanted. It is not the same. My concern over the "choices" people feel they have is that they don''t permanently "fix" the possiblity of pregnancy and then end up with what they consider an "unwanted" pregnancy (baby). If you truly do not want kids, do something about it now, not something terrible when an "oops" occurs, (which is very, very common, just ask around). I personally think you''re seeing more people choosing not to have children as a result of the "me" generations that are being raised. People seem to be afraid it will either affect their relationship with their spouse or that they won''t be able to live the lifestyle they want. Believe me, when you have kids, all the other stuff just isn''t important and your relationship with your spouse takes on a whole new aspect.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 9:17:16 AM
Author: Momoftwo
I personally think you're seeing more people choosing not to have children as a result of the 'me' generations that are being raised.

I am older than you, but not by too much! Wasn't our generation supposed to be the "me" generation?

Also: why do you see choosing not to have children as selfish? I had my child for purely selfish reasons!

One thing about which I do agree with you is that the relationship between spouses changes with a child. I now look at my husband with love primarily because he is a good father to our daughter.

 

[Momoftwo]

I'm 45 and I think the generation after mine was really the "me" generation. I didnt' use the word selfish. But, I have known couples who didnt' have children because they didn't want to stop playing. I also had my children for purely selfish reasons as I think most people do. It's pure, total, unconditional love. Nothing my children will do will ever make me stop loving them. I may not like everything they do, but I will always love them. The greatest privelege in my life was being able to stay home and raise them into the wonderful people they are.

The "me" generation I'm referring to is my own children's (19 and 21). Everyone has a car, their own room, cell phone, most college paid for (most of my kids friends), just about anything they could want. I definitely didn't grow up that way. I see a lot of entitlement today from a lot of people. Just look around at cars, homes, debt, etc. The feeling of deserving something just because you exist is alive and well. I actually know one man who told his wife if she really wanted a child, that she could as long as it didnt' interfere with his lifestyle. That is selfish. I'd question his ability to love anyone else. The point is, sharing is difficult for some people and there are those that feel they'd have to share everything with a child and they dont' want to.

 

[bstraszheim]

Momoftwo wrote:

"My concern over the "choices" people feel they have is that they don''t permanently "fix" the possiblity of pregnancy and then end up with what they consider an "unwanted" pregnancy (baby). If you truly do not want kids, do something about it now, not something terrible when an "oops" occurs"

I looked into sterilization at 19. They refused to sterilise me until I either a) was 35 or b) had two kids. I was like, hello! I want to get sterilised so that I don''t *have* any kids. I''m now 28, still have no children. I guess I only have another 7 years to go. I must admit that this was in South Africa and I have not looked into sterilization since I have lived in the USA.

Interesting discussion so far! I''m so glad that everyone is discussing their opinions and it hasn''t turned into a flame war! : )

I wish you well,

Bridget

 

[bar01]

Date: 7/6/2005 1:02:15 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/6/2005 10:15:26 AM
Author: jellybean

As far as the decision to have kids, that it totally personal and I completely respect anyone that does not want to have them. Yet, that regret may be there in years as I have seen it personally with family members and a couple of my husband's friends who are in their 40's and now trying to conceive.

that's the worst thing that can happen to a couple.IF you gonna have kids have them early in life.i wish my daughters were a few yrs older than they're now.when you're in your 40's,time to think about retirerment not changing diapers. JMO

as for pets....i have a amazon blue front parrot,who talks more than i do. i have japanese koi in the backyard.does fish count as pets?.

That’s the worst thing that can happen? Nah - not even close - in fact it could be the best thing.

The right time to have kids is when you want to have kids whether it is 20 or 40. There are pluses and minus to having kids at different ages. Life is what happens when you are making other plans.

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/7/2005 8:49:20 AM
Author: jellybean
Very interesting topic.

What bothers me is when I see people treat their pets better than their own children or better than themselves.

We fill a lot of veternary prescriptions at our pharmacy b/c we are right down the street from an animal shelter & vet clinic. Since pet prescriptions are not covered under one''s medical or prescription insurance, people have to pay the retail price for them, and depending on the medication, it can be pretty expensive. But my experience has been that people don''t think twice about paying the retail price for a prescription for their pets, but will complain and moan and yell at me about their co-pay for their own or their child''s prescription.

Here''s an example: the vet called in a prescription for a medication that dissolves gall stones for one man''s dog. For one month worth of medication it was about $300. I called the man to tell him how expensive the medication was so he didn''t have a fit when he came in to pick it up. He wasn''t upset at all; he was like ''well she really needs it''. He also asked if his blood pressure medication was ready. I told him it was but his co-pay had increased from $3 to $5. That''s when he got mad and demanded I call his doctor to change to one of the medications that had a $3 copay.

I see things like this quite often.

Now I don''t mean to ruffle any feathers with this. I too have had pets and children and for me there is no comparison.

I''ve seen the same thing working in the ER. People will put off seeking medical attention for themselves or their children quite often. Some of these same people wouldn''t give a second thought about taking their pet to the vet for something relatively minor. I know from first hand experience that vets can be much more expensive than MDs.

I personally don''t have a problem with people treating their pets like children. But you are right, some people do treat their pets better than they treat people. Better than their own kids, even. That''s sad. My neighbors are a perfect example of that. They have a son who is around the same age as my son. They also have a dog. The dog is shown more affection and attention than the boy. The boy''s mother takes the dog for long walks, takes him jogging with her, plays fetch, and takes the dog swimming in the lake. I have almost NEVER seen her outside playing with the little boy. Most of the time he''s over at OUR house playing with my son and my son''s friends. She also comes home from work on her lunch hour every day to take her dog out and play with him so that he won''t get "lonely", while the son goes to daycare all day, even in the summer when she''s not working (she''s a middle school teacher). Everyone in the neighborhood thinks it''s really sad. This couple had the child later in life, too. She was 40 when she got pregnant with him. She has made a few comments to the effect that she wasn''t all that happy when she found out that she was going to be a mother at 40! Apparently the boy was an "oops".

.

While I don''t think that there is anything wrong with not wanting either pets OR children, if you are positive about it, do something about it! People who don''t like animals or don''t want the responsibility of a pet either don''t get one in the first place, or if they do and change their mind, they can always find a new home for the pet. It isn''t so easy with children. If someone knows that they NEVER want children, it would be prudent to take the proper measures to insure that they DON''T get pregnant. If that means getting "fixed"...so be it. If you think about it, most animal lovers are humane when it comes to having their pets spayed or neutered to avoid unwanted puppies and kittens. People should be even MORE humane where children are concerned.

 

[rms]

We had a cat who sadly had to be put to sleep just one week ago do to a blood clot caused by heart disease. I wrote about it in the thread "Heart disease in cats".

I never thought that I would cry over an animal. But I did because it was truly sad for me to see the poor cat suffering in pain. And I definitely miss him. My husband and that cat were alone together through a lot of tough times, so I know it was especially hard for my husband.

Even so, I completely agree with sjz''s and others'' comments about love for children (and people in general I''d say) being an entirely different love than the love of animals. If you don''t think you can love an animal properly, don''t have one, and if you don''t think you can love your children properly, please don''t have one. People don''t really talk about putting children to sleep the same way they talk about putting animals to sleep, that''s for sure.

 

[sjz]

Date: 7/7/2005 9:53:11 AM
Author: Momoftwo
I''m 45 and I think the generation after mine was really the ''me'' generation. I didnt'' use the word selfish. But, I have known couples who didnt'' have children because they didn''t want to stop playing. I also had my children for purely selfish reasons as I think most people do. It''s pure, total, unconditional love. Nothing my children will do will ever make me stop loving them. I may not like everything they do, but I will always love them. The greatest privelege in my life was being able to stay home and raise them into the wonderful people they are.

The ''me'' generation I''m referring to is my own children''s (19 and 21). Everyone has a car, their own room, cell phone, most college paid for (most of my kids friends), just about anything they could want. I definitely didn''t grow up that way. I see a lot of entitlement today from a lot of people. Just look around at cars, homes, debt, etc. The feeling of deserving something just because you exist is alive and well. I actually know one man who told his wife if she really wanted a child, that she could as long as it didnt'' interfere with his lifestyle. That is selfish. I''d question his ability to love anyone else. The point is, sharing is difficult for some people and there are those that feel they''d have to share everything with a child and they dont'' want to.

I agree with you about young people of this generation. My kids are younger than yours...18, 12, and 6. But you are right, they do have a very different kind of life than I did growing up, and I think I had a pretty average childhood. I didn''t have things or do things just because I wanted...most of what I had growing up was either because I "earned" it, or because my parents could afford it. And guess what? They couldn''t afford EVERYTHING I wanted...lol. My college education wasn''t all paid for, like my kids'' will be, either. I had to earn scholarships and work for the money to pay for my education. My kids won''t have to do that.

The other thing, related to this topic, that I notice is this...pets are treated differently nowadays, too. When I was growing up, most people I knew had a dog, a cat, or both. I had friends and relatives that live on farms, and they also had other types of pets such as horses, goats, and various types of livestock. My cousin even had a "pet" peacock! Everyone I knew treated their pets very well, and had lots of affection for their animals. But NOBODY I knew ever regarded their pets as their "children". Not even my cousin, who was never married and had a little schnauzer named Scooter. She was crazy over him, and grieved like no tomorrow when he died. But never once did I hear her refer to him as anything other than "my pet" or "my dog". In today''s world, pets are big business! People buy special gourmet foods for their pets, fancy jeweled collars that cost the earth, give their dogs bottled mineral water to drink, build special play yard for them, take them to the salon to have their hair done and their nails clipped, and so on. I know one family who''s pets even have their own room in the house, with a sofa, and a TV just for the dogs! I guess if that''s how people want to spend their time and money, it''s fine. But I think in some ways, it''s kind of nuts! We had pets growing up, both dogs and cats. Our pets were very beloved, and treated well. They were very affectionate and loving to us in return. But they were treated like pets, not people. The dogs slept outside in the backyard in a dog house, or in the case of the cats, in a cardboard box or an old laundry basket with soft blankets inside. They ate plain old Purina dog chow and cat food, and were taken to the vet once a year for vaccinations and if they were sick. They all lived to ripe old ages and never ran away or acted unhappy. We also had them spayed and neutered.

We have a dog and a cat. They are treated like very special parts of the family, but are still treated like pets, not children. Both have been spayed, have toys and their own designated place in the house to sleep and play. And they get lots of love and attention. But not nearly as much love and attention as the kids get.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/7/2005 9:53:11 AM
Author: Momoftwo
I''m 45 and I think the generation after mine was really the ''me'' generation. I didnt'' use the word selfish. But, I have known couples who didnt'' have children because they didn''t want to stop playing. I also had my children for purely selfish reasons as I think most people do.

So, your selfish if you do have children & selfish if you don''t? Stop playing? Is that what people do who don''t have children? Yeah, all I do is play.

I''d love to live that reality.

Geez, no one has said that the love one feels for a child is the same as the love they feel for a pet. BUT - define LOVE? Some people are incapable of loving their child. I''ve seen that as well.

 

[Bikergirl]

Date: 7/7/2005 9:59:18 AM
Author: bstraszheim
Momoftwo wrote:

''My concern over the ''choices'' people feel they have is that they don''t permanently ''fix'' the possiblity of pregnancy and then end up with what they consider an ''unwanted'' pregnancy (baby). If you truly do not want kids, do something about it now, not something terrible when an ''oops'' occurs''

I looked into sterilization at 19. They refused to sterilise me until I either a) was 35 or b) had two kids. I was like, hello! I want to get sterilised so that I don''t *have* any kids. I''m now 28, still have no children. I guess I only have another 7 years to go. I must admit that this was in South Africa and I have not looked into sterilization since I have lived in the USA.

Interesting discussion so far! I''m so glad that everyone is discussing their opinions and it hasn''t turned into a flame war! : )

I wish you well,

Bridget

I didn''t have a tubal ligation because I thought that maybe someday I would get married and my spouse would be so set on having children that I would do it for him. I use an IUD, which is good for 5 years. No pills to think about, no plastic/rubber to break, no shots, nothing. Just my annual exam (where she also verifies that everything is still correctly positioned).

Now that I''m married, 30, and DH also doesn''t want children, I wouldn''t have any problems with it. However DH has volunteered to have the surgery instead, since it''s so much less invasive for men. So we''ll probably go that route.

The only age requirement I''ve ever heard is that you have to be 21, but I could be wrong.

Also - as for the "me" generation - I''m 30 and DH is 46. Definitely different generations, however we both really have a lot in common, neither of us wants children, and we have the same reasons for this choice. Don''t know what that means, really, but since it''s being discussed....

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/7/2005 10:52:19 AM
Author: sjz

Date: 7/7/2005 9:53:11 AM
Author: Momoftwo

But NOBODY I knew ever regarded their pets as their ''children''. Not even my cousin, who was never married and had a little schnauzer named Scooter. She was crazy over him, and grieved like no tomorrow when he died. But never once did I hear her refer to him as anything other than ''my pet'' or ''my dog''. In today''s world, pets are big business! People buy special gourmet foods for their pets, fancy jeweled collars that cost the earth, give their dogs bottled mineral water to drink, build special play yard for them, take them to the salon to have their hair done and their nails clipped, and so on. I know one family who''s pets even have their own room in the house, with a sofa, and a TV just for the dogs! I guess if that''s how people want to spend their time and money, it''s fine. But I think in some ways, it''s kind of nuts!
We have a dog and a cat. They are treated like very special parts of the family, but are still treated like pets, not children. Both have been spayed, have toys and their own designated place in the house to sleep and play. And they get lots of love and attention. But not nearly as much love and attention as the kids get.

Well, I think parents who give their children everything on the planet nuts too.

And, I don''t know what world you live in. All of my friends refer to their dog, cat, etc as their furry children. And, the pet is an intregal part of their family. My own mother refers to my sister''s cat, our dogs & my brother''s dogs as her furry grandbabies. They all get presents at holidays, etc.

 

[Matata]

What we''re talking about here in a broad sense is having respect for all life forms be they feathered, furred, scaled, or plain skinned and accepting the responsibility and commitment required when we choose to bring a being into our home regardless of the species. If I were forced to choose between medication for myself or one of my cats, I would choose in favor of the cat. Why? Because I likely would have other options for myself but the cat is completely dependent on me for its care. If that choice would put my life in danger, then I would find the pet another home where it would be properly cared for.

My cats are family members and I refer to them as my babies but I am uncomfortable with the trend to treat pets as children if that means failing to respect that they are another species with behaviors different from ours and ways of sensing the world that are more complex than ours.

And, I celebrated my 25th birthday (a quarter century ago) by having a tubal ligation. I''m not mother material and I did not want to have to deal with the consequences of an accidental pregnancy. There is little wrong with the world today that a few less people on it wouldn''t fix.

 

[heart prongs]

Momoftwo wrote...
"Believe me, when you have kids, all the other stuff just isn''t important..."


I don''t necessarily think your statement applies to everyone...so I''m not simply going to just "believe" you. I will say that it comes across as a bit narrow-minded though...

I for one am bothered when people don''t seem to love an animal as much (some even going so far as to get rid of it) when a baby comes into their lives. The poor animal is left to wonder what he/she did that was so wrong. Also, some people become so ridiculously focused on their children and NOTHING more...Sometimes I want to say, "Wow, you had a baby...now stop talking incessantly about every single thing "the baby" did. Let''s face it...other than the funny things kids say, everything else they do is really only interesting to you, your spouse and the baby''s nana!

As a side note, I think part of the reason so many of us are on the fence about giving up our "freedom" is because so many moms (and dads) we know complain about their bratty kids...about how they get no sleep and never have time for sex anymore, let alone any time to themselves...and how they spend every weekend at their 2 kids six soccer games, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! And then they feel gulity about having b*tching and say...."But they''re so worth it." Right??!!

Perhaps if parents in general made it sound just a tad more appealing, and not so daunting, some of us wouldn''t have such concerns about having one of our own...klr

 

[AGBF]

Date: 7/7/2005 10:52:19 AM
Author: sjz
Everyone I knew treated their pets very well, and had lots of affection for their animals. But NOBODY I knew ever regarded their pets as their ''children''. Not even my cousin, who was never married and had a little schnauzer named Scooter. She was crazy over him, and grieved like no tomorrow when he died.

Does it matter? I call my dog my baby (and also, "my guy") although I have a human child (and a husband). When my younger brother was little, our spaniel died. He kept the cardboard box of her ashes in his room, played the song, "Ruby Tuesday" on the record player, and cried every day. After a year of mourning our parents felt it was time for him to let go, so they buried the ashes with all the family''s other pets on my great grandparents'' land. He didn''t call the dog his baby, but he felt her loss in a way I had never seen him feel anything. So the dog mattered. A lot. What does it matter what he called her? What I call my dog now? I just don''t get why this bothers anyone.

Deb

 

[MINE!!]

I once had a philosophy class where we did this activity.

Here is the story.

A asteriod is coming to earth and when it hits, everything will be destroyed. You have been chosen along with 19 other people to get a spacecraft and resettle a new world. You can take 10 things with you.. this includes people and ''things''

Many people chose relatives and pets, food, guns etc.

Then the proff said that due to unforseeable events you can now only bring 5 things...

Then only 3.

Then only 2 things.

The proff said that you can give up some of your items and give the space to someone else if they wanted it. The sad thing was that about 1/2 the people in the class had pets in their 2 items. PETS... a dog a cat.. etc. Cause they loved them, cause they were their babies.

When the prof proposed that they could give up their space so that someone could take their child.. ALL the poeple said NNNOOO these are our children.. our pets. OUR babies.

I was furious to hear the selfishness in the room. Our world cares more about thier pets sometimes than the lives of others. Then I realized that I would probably opt to stay than to go to another world and try to redevelop it with people that though a dog or cat was more important thatn a human life.

That, I think, is what is scary.

 

[heart prongs]

MINE...

But the pet was theirs...the baby was someone else''s...makes perfect sense to me.

The scenario would be quite different, don''t you think, if the choice was between their baby and their pet...of course you''d choose the baby, it would likely live longer.

Also, this class was in college, right? Were a lot of the students young? If so, then the responses make sense. I think that would be a common response from young people without kids.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:44:15 PM
Author: heart prongs
MINE...


But the pet was theirs...the baby was someone else''s...makes perfect sense to me.


The scenario would be quite different, don''t you think, if the choice was between their baby and their pet...of course you''d choose the baby, it would likely live longer.


Also, this class was in college, right? Were a lot of the students young? If so, then the responses make sense. I think that would be a common response from young people without kids.

My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another''s child die.

It makes NO SENSE to me.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:31:38 PM
Author: MINE!!
I once had a philosophy class where we did this activity.

A asteriod is coming to earth and when it hits, everything will be destroyed. You have been chosen along with 19 other people to get a spacecraft and resettle a new world. You can take 10 things with you.. this includes people and ''things''

I would rather not go at all. Can you imagine the kind of hysteria and hardship these people will face? Not to mention, what''s to guarentee they''ll have enough food? I will not bring my pets only to have them eaten by other people! if someone else wants to take my place, be my guest!

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:57:10 PM
Author: MINE!!

My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another''s child die.

It makes NO SENSE to me.

There are plenty of people in this world, and people keep reproducing. What''s the big deal?

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 7/7/2005 4:02:54 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 7/7/2005 3:57:10 PM

Author: MINE!!


My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another''s child die.


It makes NO SENSE to me.

There are plenty of people in this world, and people keep reproducing. What''s the big deal?

 

[MissAva]

Date: 7/7/2005 4:02:54 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 7/7/2005 3:57:10 PM
Author: MINE!!

My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another''s child die.

It makes NO SENSE to me.

There are plenty of people in this world, and people keep reproducing. What''s the big deal?

You are a hoot!

 

[Mara]

hehehe .... this is getting dicey. kids vs pets! there are no clear winners here!

i will admit to having those same over-procreation thoughts as well sometimes. people who have kids and just keep having them...and sometimes they can't even afford to take care of themselves, let alone CHILDREN. i view that as an old fashioned view...aka we are here on the earth to procreate. some people identify so strongly with their children that they feel like they are incomplete without them or 'what purpose' do they have if they don't have children? i also think it matters where you live/were raised and what sort of mentality was in your household.

our world is not necessarily a place i would feel super comfortable having a child in anyhow, regardless of whether or not i want one. that is part of why we are unsure... what guarantees do you have in life? none. it's scary to think about responsibility of another human being.

bottom line. have your kids. procreate. some would rather NOT and instead prefer to have pets. there are lots of pets out there in the world who need love too. why does it matter if someone loves their pets and wants them instead of children? why would it matter if i call my dog my daughter or other's furry children? to each their own. who cares if someone treats their pets like a baby or like a child. that pet probably has a BLESSED life.

i tend to feel like our world is overpopulated anyway...so if we don't have our 2.5 children..we'd probably be doing it a favor somehow.

 

[ForteKitty]

Date: 7/7/2005 4:17:54 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 4:02:54 PM
Author: ForteKitty

Date: 7/7/2005 3:57:10 PM

Author: MINE!!


My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another's child die.


It makes NO SENSE to me.

There are plenty of people in this world, and people keep reproducing. What's the big deal?

You said you're not judging/criticizing other people's opinions, correct? what's with the disapproving headshake?

I don't get what's so great about people. Makes NO SENSE to ME!!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/7/2005 3:57:10 PM
Author: MINE!!

Date: 7/7/2005 3:44:15 PM
Author: heart prongs
MINE...


But the pet was theirs...the baby was someone else''s...makes perfect sense to me.


The scenario would be quite different, don''t you think, if the choice was between their baby and their pet...of course you''d choose the baby, it would likely live longer.


Also, this class was in college, right? Were a lot of the students young? If so, then the responses make sense. I think that would be a common response from young people without kids.

My God Heartprongs.. you just proved my point. People cared so much for thier own pets that they would not problem seeing another''s child die.

It makes NO SENSE to me.

Well, what parent would want their child to go alone? I doubt it would be an option my parents would have choosen. If you said the argument that I would give up my pet to save a child''s life (i.e. the dna heart matched - silly yes - but one can get my drift), I would do that. But, sending a child of mine with a stranger into an unknown land that I thought to be wrought with hardship. No, not me. And Heartprongs hit the nail on the head, these are mostly kids with no to little concept of parenthood.

And, I''m with AGBF - who cares what you call your pet?

And, to assume that someone without children can not experience a deeper form of love is just plain arrogant. It''s a different love. I''d be a little weird to have the same type of love towards children, husband, parents, friends, pets, etc.

The reason why I equate my babies as my babies is simple. I''m their caretaker & nuturer.

Regarding people treating their pets better than their children - it''s not a contest. And define better? I sure know that my 13 year old nephew would be MORTIFIED if I gave him a big hug in front of his "buds". Yet, I''m perfectly fine with giving kisses to his dog.

And, people treat all things differently.