Buyer Beware... If you're non-American, think twice before purchasing from the US

[missy]

@missy @Tigerlilyrosepetal nobody was “beating her up” and that’s kind of the point. She went from 0-100 on Daisy; if anything she was the aggressor. Being critical of what’s happening in the US is not the same as being a hate monger or anti-American and that’s what she is accusing Daisy and others of.

I saw the news of the pause which is welcome yet more evidence of what complete chaos we are in rn.

Again that was how I saw it. Just like we all have the right to feel how we feel and perceive a situation. I felt she was being (for lack of a better term) ganged up on…


And yes. Welcome update. For as long as it lasts. Which I don’t think will be long. Hoping for the best. But preparing for a different scenario. In time though I have hope it will be better for everyone. That’s my hope anyhow

 

[Rockdiamond]

An issue is that people are using the word “we” describing how Americans feel.
A huge percentage of Americans agree with what Daisy wrote.
A huge percentage would agree with Tiger.
It seems so clear that dividing us is a goal of some people - and it’s working.
A lot of Americans are extremely disappointed in what’s going on- horrified at what WE are doing.
Others are thrilled. We are so screwed.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

An issue is that people are using the word “we” describing how Americans feel.
A huge percentage of Americans agree with what Daisy wrote.
A huge percentage would agree with Tiger.
It seems so clear that dividing us is a goal of some people - and it’s working.
A lot of Americans are extremely disappointed in what’s going on- horrified at what WE are doing.
Others are thrilled. We are so screwed.

Rock, relax please. America has always had varying opinions, look at the sixties! (Lol, I now realize most can't do that..). There was a great divide then because we are all individuals with different viewpoints. There is greater effort to dispense hate and hopelessness now and that is being absorbed by many who don't realize they are being played.

Most of us out there are everyday citizens who, when their politics aren't evident or questioned, interact through work and everyday activities like each other. We're not all "kissing cousins" but we generally have good, pleasant relationships. I remind myself of that when posting and allow for political passions flaring in the discussions. Hate diminishes all of us so I hope we all work not to go down that path.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

I think the anger and vitriol people are feeling from a policy which the US is pursuing to enhance their economic vantage point is, to me, deeply disturbing.

I can understand not liking or agreeing with current American polices, of course! But the sheer rancor is galling.

I have no hate or ill-will towards anyone, personally. I’m enjoying speaking up about my thoughts and beliefs. Hopefully the economic policies will start to work and benefit other countries as well as the US. But, I do think the US needs to look after itself first.

 

[Rockdiamond]

For me- the policies that alienate our closest allies and neighbors are infuriating.
We will never be seen as a reliable trading partner again. Not in my lifetime anyway. Yes that gets me very angry. A policy that includes threatening Canada??? Gets me peeved beyond words.

Rock, relax please

Relax. The ship is going down. So relax and enjoy the ride.
When you feel threatened… when you’re upset and someone tells you “calm down” does it work???

 

[Roselina]

Back and forth with the tariffs, just as it suits. When someone plays with the fate of their own country and world trade like this, there's not much more to say. I am perplexed. That‘s not America first, that‘s not being a reliable partner, that‘s… well, you name it.

 

[Bonfire]

We are all just pawns in this nonsensical game, chaos

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

The partial pause silver lining? From Bloomberg Billionaires Index:
Billionaires had the largest single day gains ever yesterday, adding 304 billion to their net worth.

Quelle surprise.

 

[Mreader]

100

The partial pause silver lining? From Bloomberg Billionaires Index:
Billionaires had the largest single day gains ever yesterday, adding 304 billion to their net worth.

Quelle surprise.

Absolutely and in the meantime, they’re also passing budget that’s going to make cuts to important programs like Medicaid and give tax cuts to the wealthy. That sure as hell is not America first.

 

[Rfisher]

The partial pause silver lining? From Bloomberg Billionaires Index:
Billionaires had the largest single day gains ever yesterday, adding 304 billion to their net worth.

Quelle surprise.

 

[Bonfire]

give tax cuts to the wealthy. That sure as hell is not America first.

Well, unless you’re an American billionaire. And the grift goes on.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I've been watching small business owners desperately try to explain how they are going to lose their businesses and their livelihood and that of their employees because of tariffs.
Thousands of small American businesses will be catastrophically effected.

Recession probability is still at 60%.

 

[WillyDiamond]

Today I listened to an interview of the President of the Soybean farmers in the US. He said that even before the tariffs due to high interest rates and falling prices, this year would at best be a break-even for his farmers in the US. I cannot remember the percentage of our soybean crop that goes to China but he said the amount that China imports from US farmers is greater than all the other countries combined! That blew me away. So we really need China and hope this mess is over soon.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Today I listed to an interview of the President of the Soybean farmers in the US. He said that even before the tariffs due to high interest rates and falling prices, this year would at best be a break-even for his farmers in the US. I cannot remember the percentage of our soybean crop that goes to China but he said the amount that China imports from US farmers is greater than all the other countries combined! That blew me away. So we really need China and hope this mess is over soon.

And we never recovered fully our soy market from the last time this president waged a tariff war.

From The Cato Institute,

Indeed, soybean farmers were one of the biggest victims of costly trade policies in his first term. Following retaliatory Chinese tariffs on American soybeans, exports to the soybean farmers’ largest foreign market dropped by 77 percent, according to the US Department of Agriculture. Of the $27 billion in total reduced US agriculture exports from mid-2018 to the end of 2019, soybeans represented 71 percent of the lost value.

While US soybean exports to China rebounded with a 2020 agreement between the two countries, American farmers’ share of the Chinese market has not recovered to pre-trade war levels. One reason is that Chinese importers can turn to Brazil and other countries.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

It's discouraging to me to see non-American posters feeling unwelcome to be candid here. If ever foreign perspectives were important, it is on this issue. Please don't be silenced.

Pricescope may be an American company with alot of American participants, but one of the special things about this forum is its diversity and the international contribution.

If people think we can dictate to the rest of the world, they are being misled. We live in a highly interconnected world and there is cause and effect whenever someone decides to create chaos. The markets are the most immediate indicator, but the longterm consequenses are much greater. Our reputation around the world is at stake too, and your perspective helps to illustrate that.

The agents of chaos are also the agents of division. This has been happening here in America for a while, a strategy of turning Americans against one another. And now it has metasticized to a confrontation of America against the world.

 

[HGar]

It's discouraging to me to see non-American posters feeling unwelcome to be candid here. If ever foreign perspectives were important, it is on this issue. Please don't be silenced

I very rarely post but once I saw the pile on Daisy whom is always so kind and gracious to everyone, it made me see that some posters here are so blinded to only their view of that your country and government in charge are so hard done by it made me post.

Sadly your country is no longer “great” - no matter what your leader tells you. To the vast majority of non-Americans we are just sitting and watching shaking our heads that a large number of people believe blindly what is being fed to them.

America will recover, you’ve done it before but you’ve got four more years as a minimum of damage being done before you can even hope for improvement on the world stage.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

It's discouraging to me to see non-American posters feeling unwelcome to be candid here. If ever foreign perspectives were important, it is on this issue. Please don't be silenced.

Pricescope may be an American company with alot of American participants, but one of the special things about this forum is its diversity and the international contribution.

If people think we can dictate to the rest of the world, they are being misled. We live in a highly interconnected world and there is cause and effect whenever someone decides to create chaos. The markets are the most immediate indicator, but the longterm consequenses are much greater. Our reputation around the world is at stake too, and your perspective helps to illustrate that.

The agents of chaos are also the agents of division. This has been happening here in America for a while, a strategy of turning Americans against one another. And now it has metasticized to a confrontation of America against the world.

@Texas Leaguer you bring up a good point about our reputation in the world and this is why the disparaging of the US needs to be curbed. I can understand disagreement and differences-but outright hostility is where I draw the line.

9/11 is still so close in my memory and has shown us that hatred for American capitalism and values can turn very nasty both internally and abroad for us. It’s dangerous.

I hope people keep that in mind. One poster a few posts back had said they were watching for America to implode. I know this is not everyone’s thinking (I hope) but thoughts like these are what causes division and chaos and spreads evil.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@Texas Leaguer you bring up a good point about our reputation in the world and this is why the disparaging of the US needs to be curbed. I can understand disagreement and differences-but outright hostility is where I draw the line.

9/11 is still so close in my memory and has shown us that hatred for American capitalism and values can turn very nasty both internally and abroad for us. It’s dangerous.

I hope people keep that in mind. One poster a few posts back had said they were watching for America to implode. I know this is not everyone’s thinking (I hope) but thoughts like these are what causes division and chaos and spreads evil.

Disparaging of the US can be curbed by the US not trying to roll the rest of the world. What do you expect the international reaction to be? Serious question.

This was a wholly elective assault - on a global scale. Aparently based on the false premise that a trade imbalance, anywhere in the world, was automatically bad for America. And so indescrimately implemented that almost all countries in the world (except Russia) were hit with a large increase in their tariff rates, including countries we have a trade surplus with. To add again, Americans PAY these tariffs.

Trade wars have historically proven disastrous. This one is of epic proportions. I'm glad that partial sense has returned, at least for 90 days. But damage is being done to the US - economically and reputationally.

Our current trading partners are now looking for new countries to do business with. This amounts to lost business opportunities for America, and in the process we are making enemies of our closest and longest standing friends and allies.

 

[missy]

China Raises Tariffs on U.S. Imports to 125 Percent from 84% in retaliation​

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Disparaging of the US can be curbed by the US not trying to roll the rest of the world. What do you expect the international reaction to be? Serious question.

This was a wholly elective assault - on a global scale. Aparently based on the false premise that a trade imbalance, anywhere in the world, was automatically bad for America. And so indescrimately implemented that almost all countries in the world (except Russia) were hit with a large increase in their tariff rates, including countries we have a trade surplus with. To add again, Americans PAY these tariffs.

Trade wars have historically proven disastrous. This one is of epic proportions. I'm glad that partial sense has returned, at least for 90 days. But damage is being done to the US - economically and reputationally.

Our current trading partners are now looking for new countries to do business with. This amounts to lost business opportunities for America, and in the process we are making enemies of our closest and longest standing friends and allies.

So what would you have us do? Even though politicians through the years have stated repeatedly something needs to be done about these tariffs, you would have us continue to subsidize every nation even though we are on our way under.

Russia has so many sanctions against it now that few things remain for tariff increases and those increases may be part of the bargaining process for peace in that area.

This country is way overdrawn financially, continues to pay excessive trade costs with other countries and has no security in the production of essential items should a disagreement or worse occur. We need jobs back in this country and we don't need to pay every country extra in trade to like us. Because it appears as soon as the USA wants equal footing, we are deserted by "friends".

And the word "chaos" maybe appropriate on Wall Street by the rest of the world is waiting for things to be determined.

We had to go out for errands yesterday and strangely enough, didn't see anyone shaking, cowering in corners, crying or red eyed or wringing their hands. The world is still turning and time is needed to accomplish the goal. Hopefully, trade will be balanced on the needs of every country so EVERY COUNTRY has the opportunity for fair trade without tariffs, excise taxes, VATS and non-tariff barriers.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

So what would you have us do? Even though politicians through the years have stated repeatedly something needs to be done about these tariffs, you would have us continue to subsidize every nation even though we are on our way under.

I share your hope that all will be well. But what I am seeing, and what I am experiencing as someone in business in America, does not give me confidence. Most consumers have not yet been confronted with the economic effects of this debacle (unless they are looking at their 401K), but businesses who are the first to have to pay the increased costs are already in scramble mode to try to figure out how to navigate the everchanging chaos.

If your house in the village needs repairs, your first move is not to burn down the village. Especially when you will need other villagers to help put out your flames. When you are given the awesome privilege and power of governing 300 million people with impacts all around the world, your first responsibility should be like the hippocratic oath that doctor's take: First, do no harm.

Big issues need to be addressed thoughtfully. Complex issues need the advise of experts. Virtually every economist predicted this calamity. Even pricescope posters who are not economists are able to explain cause and effect. Instead of listening to the experts, someone who has stated he "couldn't care less" about increased price of automobiles for American consumers because of his 25% tariff, is simply relying on his "instincts". Which by the way, are the same instincts that bankrupted six companies.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

I share your hope that all will be well. But what I am seeing, and what I am experiencing as someone in business in America, does not give me confidence. Most consumers have not yet been confronted with the economic effects of this debacle (unless they are looking at their 401K), but businesses who are the first to have to pay the increased costs are already in scramble mode to try to figure out how to navigate the everchanging chaos.

If your house in the village needs repairs, your first move is not to burn down the village. Especially when you will need other villagers to help put out your flames. When you are given the awesome privilege and power of governing 300 million people with impacts all around the world, your first responsibility should be like the hippocratic oath that doctor's take: First, do no harm.

Big issues need to be addressed thoughtfully. Complex issues need the advise of experts. Virtually every economist predicted this calamity. Even pricescope posters who are not economists are able to explain cause and effect. Instead of listening to the experts, someone who has stated he "couldn't care less" about increased price of automobiles for American consumers because of his 25% tariff, is simply relying on his "instincts". Which by the way, are the same instincts that bankrupted six companies.

Let's face the facts, other countries were not running to the bargaining table prior to the tariffs. It is impossible to fix this huge problem which has gone on for years without some sacrifice. Should we wait for that country, which is working so diligently and sacrificing, to take over our country's capabilities and hang us out to dry terms?

The big picture here is that the rate in which we were going and moving, you would have had much deeper problems shortly. "That" country has factories in Denmark along with so many other nations. Can't you see what is happening? Your business very shortly wouldn't even be a cog in the wheel.

 

[Mreader]

I share your hope that all will be well. But what I am seeing, and what I am experiencing as someone in business in America, does not give me confidence. Most consumers have not yet been confronted with the economic effects of this debacle (unless they are looking at their 401K), but businesses who are the first to have to pay the increased costs are already in scramble mode to try to figure out how to navigate the everchanging chaos.

If your house in the village needs repairs, your first move is not to burn down the village. Especially when you will need other villagers to help put out your flames. When you are given the awesome privilege and power of governing 300 million people with impacts all around the world, your first responsibility should be like the hippocratic oath that doctor's take: First, do no harm.

Big issues need to be addressed thoughtfully. Complex issues need the advise of experts. Virtually every economist predicted this calamity. Even pricescope posters who are not economists are able to explain cause and effect. Instead of listening to the experts, someone who has stated he "couldn't care less" about increased price of automobiles for American consumers because of his 25% tariff, is simply relying on his "instincts". Which by the way, are the same instincts that bankrupted six companies.

Well said. And this is what is also baffling to me. Even those that are pro tariff are either not understanding or not admitting that the math formula he came up with is wrong!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Let's face the facts

Facts.
At this moment in time, facts are……pasè
Canada is our enemy. We’ve been ripped off by every single country in the world.
Starving children in Africa have been taking advantage of us. We’re suckers.

And let’s ignore realities hitting us in the face. Canada now isn’t a friend anymore. In fact we ( America) don’t have ANY more friends. Except Putin.
As Bryan points out- the unfolding disaster hasn’t hit Main Street yet. As a businessperson, we already feel it.
So you won’t see people crying on street corners maybe yet.
Or even millions of Americans who staged massive protests this past Saturday. That got very little coverage

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Let's face the facts, other countries were not running to the bargaining table prior to the tariffs. It is impossible to fix this huge problem which has gone on for years without some sacrifice. Should we wait for that country, which is working so diligently and sacrificing, to take over our country's capabilities and hang us out to dry terms?

The big picture here is that the rate in which we were going and moving, you would have had much deeper problems shortly. "That" country has factories in Denmark along with so many other nations. Can't you see what is happening? Your business very shortly wouldn't even be a cog in the wheel.

End of 2024 saw American stock markets at all-time highs, unemployment the best in decades, pandemic-induced inflation coming steadily down, NATO being strengthened, Russia boxed in, Ukraine defending itself heroically, US back in the global alliance on the climate crisis, Canadians still our friends.

Objectively, the premise on which you justify this dangerous destabilization is sadly just another example of fear mongering and misinformation that has taken root. That America was being destroyed by a global conspiracy designed to rip us off is a fiction in the class of the stolen election myth that resulted in a violent attack on the American Capitol.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

Disparaging of the US can be curbed by the US not trying to roll the rest of the world. What do you expect the international reaction to be? Serious question.

This was a wholly elective assault - on a global scale. Aparently based on the false premise that a trade imbalance, anywhere in the world, was automatically bad for America. And so indescrimately implemented that almost all countries in the world (except Russia) were hit with a large increase in their tariff rates, including countries we have a trade surplus with. To add again, Americans PAY these tariffs.

Trade wars have historically proven disastrous. This one is of epic proportions. I'm glad that partial sense has returned, at least for 90 days. But damage is being done to the US - economically and reputationally.

Our current trading partners are now looking for new countries to do business with. This amounts to lost business opportunities for America, and in the process we are making enemies of our closest and longest standing friends and allies.

I share your hope that all will be well. But what I am seeing, and what I am experiencing as someone in business in America, does not give me confidence. Most consumers have not yet been confronted with the economic effects of this debacle (unless they are looking at their 401K), but businesses who are the first to have to pay the increased costs are already in scramble mode to try to figure out how to navigate the everchanging chaos.

If your house in the village needs repairs, your first move is not to burn down the village. Especially when you will need other villagers to help put out your flames. When you are given the awesome privilege and power of governing 300 million people with impacts all around the world, your first responsibility should be like the hippocratic oath that doctor's take: First, do no harm.

Big issues need to be addressed thoughtfully. Complex issues need the advise of experts. Virtually every economist predicted this calamity. Even pricescope posters who are not economists are able to explain cause and effect. Instead of listening to the experts, someone who has stated he "couldn't care less" about increased price of automobiles for American consumers because of his 25% tariff, is simply relying on his "instincts". Which by the way, are the same instincts that bankrupted six companies.

Disparaging of the US can be curbed by the US not trying to roll the rest of the world. What do you expect the international reaction to be? Serious question.

This was a wholly elective assault - on a global scale. Aparently based on the false premise that a trade imbalance, anywhere in the world, was automatically bad for America. And so indescrimately implemented that almost all countries in the world (except Russia) were hit with a large increase in their tariff rates, including countries we have a trade surplus with. To add again, Americans PAY these tariffs.

Trade wars have historically proven disastrous. This one is of epic proportions. I'm glad that partial sense has returned, at least for 90 days. But damage is being done to the US - economically and reputationally.

Our current trading partners are now looking for new countries to do business with. This amounts to lost business opportunities for America, and in the process we are making enemies of our closest and longest standing friends and allies.

@Texas Leaguer sorry for the delay in my response to your “serious question.” I’d expect people to reasonably behave. However, I appreciate your point. I think you may be on to something. It’s like when you give a toddler milk and cookies every night for dinner and then suddenly someone says, “it’s water and beans” for you. There will be tantrums, whining, and crying. I should have supposed this would be the case!

Especially when goodies such as diamonds are what people want and what are being heavily taxed-or at least that was what the initial Togal’s post was about-if I’m not mistaken. Right? The complaint about the high cost to import her diamonds?

And I can see how this would affect you disproportionately too, being in the diamond industry with all your lovely potential and actual customers on here. Or am I wrong? I see where you are coming from.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

@Texas Leaguer sorry for the delay in my response to your “serious question.” I’d expect people to reasonably behave. However, I appreciate your point. I think you may be on to something. It’s like when you give a toddler milk and cookies every night for dinner and then suddenly someone says, “it’s water and beans” for you. There will be tantrums, whining, and crying. I should have supposed this would be the case!

And why would you do that as a an adult?

Especially when goodies such as diamonds are what people want and what are being heavily taxed-or at least that was what the initial Togal’s post was about-if I’m not mistaken. Right? The complaint about the high cost to import her diamonds?

And I can see how this would affect you disproportionately too, being in the diamond industry with all your lovely potential and actual customers on here. Or am I wrong? I see where you are coming from.

All of the tariffs (10% across the board) effect all American businesses and ultimately American consumers. (Inflation no longer seems to be of any concern whatsoever to the people who campaigned so vociferously on the issue). The especially agregious tariffs on certain countries such as India (27%) where a great deal of diamond and jewelry manufacturing is done, will affect every American business in the diamond and jewelry industry. And their customers. A 135% (or whatever the ridiculous threat is today) on China would absolutely hammer working class Americans on the price of household goods.

Retaliatory tariffs will harm businesses and consumers in those countries that feel the need to respond in kind, AND on American businesses relying on those export markets such as farmers and others. And if retaliation was not expected, more evidence of incompetence and recklessness.

 

[Tigerlilyrosepetal]

And why would you do that as a an adult?

Exactly my point when I jumped into this conversation. (You may be the most reasonable person on here). Not sure why people are acting like unhappy toddlers on here? Not sure either why people have felt the need to cry, whine and complain about a US economic policy? And have tried to dictate what American polices should be, as well. But, like I said, I think I understand. The first complaint in this post was because someone had to pay more to import their diamonds. I guess I’d be calling America disgusting and hoping she implodes too, if that were me and I had to pay more for my baubles.

All of the tariffs (10% across the board) effect all American businesses and ultimately American consumers. The especially agregious ones on certain countries such as India (27%) where a great deal of diamond and jewelry manufacturing is done, will affect every American business in the diamond and jewelry industry. And their customers. A 135% (or whatever the ridiculous threat is today) will absolutely hammer working class Americans.

Retaliatory tariffs will harm businesses and consumers in those countries who feel the need to respond in kind, and American businesses relying on those markets such as farmers and others. And if retaliation was not expected, more evidence of incomptence and recklessness.

I think your business may feel the effects the most, no? Being in the luxury market? I’d be curious to know what percentage of your clients are from abroad? Australia? Canada? I’m curious to see where the biggest impact will be? In other words, will tariffs be so high that it would prevent or seriously prohibit these nice ladies on here (Canada, Australia, England), from actually being able to buy their diamonds from you or the US?

 

[Lookinagain]

I think your business may feel the effects the most, no?

Well, I'm going to jump in here and say that the businesses that will feel the effects the most seem to be the smaller business people who have their goods made in China. Like the woman who makes a baby toy, has paid for her next order, but with the new additional huge tariff on Chinese imports, she needs another $200,000 to get the order she already paid for. And she doesn't have that kind of money. To get the goods made here would take a lot of tooling and time and money. She has no inventory so basically is out of business. It's not just luxury goods at all. It's across all industries and affects businesses large and small, and of course the consumer. I really don't get the impression that @Texas Leaguer is only concerned because his business is affected, as you seem to think. He seems to be concerned about the totality of the effect of these tariffs, as are many of us.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I'm far more concerned about the overall effects.
The cost of the diamonds is the least of my worries.
It is, after all, a luxury item and companies that offer extra special service can and will charge more than mass market/virtual sites.
But how about the people who work for us?
The diamond setters. Jewelers. They now need to pay more for everything.
They are going to need to charge more.

Now imagine this on a massive scale- all the people you might hire- plumber- whoever.
It's almost inconceivable how bad an idea this sounds like - to so many of us.
And the effects have not begun to emerge.