Could my 3.02ct F VS2 diamond have been switched to a CZ?

[clgwli]

Date: 5/16/2010 9:25:37 PM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 5/16/2010 2:54:23 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
Oh! I had a thought. Do you have a pic of the profile of the stone after it''s latest reset? If you can see facets on the girdle, or a frosted/bruted look, it''s definitely a diamond. CZs, even the really nicely cut ones, are finished with a non-faceted, smooth girdle. Only diamonds have a faceted girdle or a bruted one.

That''s an EXCELLENT suggestion!!

I only have one pic of the diamond from the side (prob because I don''t like the profile, the setting is too high, meh!), and it''s attached it herewith for you to take a look. I had to blow it up a couple of 100%, so it''s a bit distorted/ blurry.

What do you think? Faceted or not?

Honestly for me that isn''t good enough quality to look. I think it looks faceted, but the whole pictures is very pixelated to me. I really doubt it was changed though. But I don''t believe most people would risk switching a stone.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/18/2010 6:17:31 PM
Author: clgwli

Date: 5/16/2010 9:25:37 PM
What do you think? Faceted or not?

Honestly for me that isn't good enough quality to look. I think it looks faceted, but the whole pictures is very pixelated to me. I really doubt it was changed though. But I don't believe most people would risk switching a stone.

I appreciate your taking the time to look at the pic and post your reply, Jean.

From my memory, I seem to recall that the stone is faceted. If it wasn't, I'd noticed it straightaway, am sure.

I'm really happy that LittleGreyKitten suggested that and am glad you said what you said.

I'm sure you're right that the jeweller wouldn't have risked their reputation like that either.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/18/2010 5:35:25 PM
Author: wishingstar
Phoenix you are too sweet

to even offer and truly deserving of the jewels you own and more!

The 1.6-1.8mm shank on that size stone looks classy yet simply perfect to me (since I cant have my Leon pave if I go for a 2ct stone right now... let me know if you ever want to sell your current setting)!

When i inquired with Lesley a couple weeks ago, she said they dont go lower than 2mm for strength purpose, did it feel secure to you since yours is even a ct larger than mine will be? did you use that setting enough to even notice? gifts are always welcome

let me know if you happen to find it ...

You're a gem to find in this world of mischief.

wrote something last night, but guess the toasted everything from yesterday.

I saw what you wrote last night (my time), but couldn't reply!

I will reply according this post and also my scanty recollection of your other post.

Thanks for your kind words, but it's really nothing. No need to mention it. I was going to save the setting for a coloured stone RHR but still haven't found a coloured stone that makes my heart sing!

I actually found both of my previous settings yesterday!

They were locked away in my "safe" drawer - so safe that I'd forgotten where they were, LOL!

The temp setting is very sturdy, despite looking rather flimsy. I guess it's all to do with the head and how secure the head is. You *might" have to have your jeweller change the head to accomodate your new stone, and in any case, ask them to secure the prongs on tightly. If you go with either GOG or BGD, I'm sure they would do a great job of fixing all that. You might also have to re-size the ring, it's currently at 4 3/8, but feels more like a 4.50 since it's thin. Oh also, it's tapered - at the top it's more like 1.60mm but it gets gradually larger towards the bottom, something like a 2.2mm. I don't remember the exact measurements, so don't hold me to it!

Also, the temp setting - since it has a larger "circle" at the bottom (not sure how else to describe it) - doesn't allow your WB or eternity ring to sit flush with it, so another reason you might want to change the head.

Not sure what I'm going to do with my current setting. The stone is set very high, very uncomfortable and I kept knocking it against things. Anyway, I'm not wearing it nowadays and don't really know what I'm going to do with the stone yet. I may sell it to upgrade to a larger stone, but at the rate diamond prices are going, I don;t think there's much chance of that happening any time soon!

ETA: Let me I know where I should send the temp setting to (a jeweller's or vendor's address - not your own). As mentioned, I should be back in Singapore in a few weeks time and should be able to send it then.

 

[wishingstar]

Date: 5/19/2010 12:40:53 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 5/18/2010 5:35:25 PM
Author: wishingstar
Phoenix you are too sweet

to even offer and truly deserving of the jewels you own and more!

The 1.6-1.8mm shank on that size stone looks classy yet simply perfect to me (since I cant have my Leon pave if I go for a 2ct stone right now... let me know if you ever want to sell your current setting)!

When i inquired with Lesley a couple weeks ago, she said they dont go lower than 2mm for strength purpose, did it feel secure to you since yours is even a ct larger than mine will be? did you use that setting enough to even notice? gifts are always welcome

let me know if you happen to find it ...

You''re a gem to find in this world of mischief.

wrote something last night, but guess the toasted everything from yesterday.

I saw what you wrote last night (my time), but couldn''t reply!

I will reply according this post and also my scanty recollection of your other post.

Thanks for your kind words, but it''s really nothing. No need to mention it. I was going to save the setting for a coloured stone RHR but still haven''t found a coloured stone that makes my heart sing!

I actually found both of my previous settings yesterday!

They were locked away in my ''safe'' drawer - so safe that I''d forgotten where they were, LOL!

The temp setting is very sturdy, despite looking rather flimsy. I guess it''s all to do with the head and how secure the head is. You *might'' have to have your jeweller change the head to accomodate your new stone, and in any case, ask them to secure the prongs on tightly. If you go with either GOG or BGD, I''m sure they would do a great job of fixing all that. You might also have to re-size the ring, it''s currently at 4 3/8, but feels more like a 4.50 since it''s thin. Oh also, it''s tapered - at the top it''s more like 1.60mm but it gets gradually larger towards the bottom, something like a 2.2mm. I don''t remember the exact measurements, so don''t hold me to it!

Also, the temp setting - since it has a larger ''circle'' at the bottom (not sure how else to describe it) - doesn''t allow your WB or eternity ring to sit flush with it, so another reason you might want to change the head.

Not sure what I''m going to do with my current setting. The stone is set very high, very uncomfortable and I kept knocking it against things. Anyway, I''m not wearing it nowadays and don''t really know what I''m going to do with the stone yet. I may sell it to upgrade to a larger stone, but at the rate diamond prices are going, I don;t think there''s much chance of that happening any time soon!

ETA: Let me I know where I should send the temp setting to (a jeweller''s or vendor''s address - not your own). As mentioned, I should be back in Singapore in a few weeks time and should be able to send it then.

well Pheonix let me know when you are ready to sell that baby, it''s very close to my dream stone

seriously, you are too kind! Let''s see when and if I even settle on a stone... I keep thinking I''ve gotten close, then I see posts like yours with stone specs that are truly what I want, and I''m I think, should I settle to have an upgrade now

but will have a look at a BGD and GOG this week hopefully!

many many many thanks again for your gesture!

 

[Phoenix]

Ok, so I have some free time and am still obsessing over this issue (it''ll be a while before I go to SG). It''s been made worse by the fact that I "discovered" some other posts in the past that talked about their (or their family diamonds) being swapped for CZ''s!

. So I went to look for more pics and found these that I''d like to post. Could someone please chime in some more, and let me know what you think.

First of, pics of my fab bgd studs...this further confirms that real diamonds do give blue fire too:

 

[Phoenix]

My ring on an overcast day:

 

[Phoenix]

Pic taken on a bright sunny day (a very rare occasion here in Shanghai

):

 

[Phoenix]

One more in the bright sun (or maybe it was taken indoors with the flash on - I really don't recall and can't tell):

 

[ptyson]

I remember hearing this recently. When you get hold of the diamond again, try the breath test.

Essentially, just breathe on it.

If it is real, there will be no visible sign of condensation as it will disperse immediately.

If it is fake, it will stay on the crystal for a second or two before receding away.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/19/2010 5:10:23 AM
Author: Phoenix
My ring on an overcast day:

I see beautiful arrows P, I don''t think a rapid huge CZ switcheroo would show that level of cutting. I know there are some well cut CZ out there but I don''t think like that.

 

[sunseeker101]

Phoenix, if that beauty is CZ I think we may all have to hound our jewellers for 90% cash refunds

I think Lorelei is spot-on, the well-defined arrows have it

 

[clgwli]

If I have time I''ll take a picture of my good CZ I have left (was thinking of making it into a cheapy pendant) and show you what the girdle looks like. That might help you see a difference and help you feel better. I have had this stone a while and bought it for travel. I kept it for many years after I lost a lot of weight and wore it again while pregnant so I wouldn''t have to pay for resizing of rings LOL. So it is an older CZ, but a very nice one!

I am glad I kept it because I really do like comparing it to real diamonds. I think if you had it in your hand you might be able to check it out with a loupe and see the differences. I''ve had fun seeing the differences, and under a loupe I can see big ones.

 

[clgwli]

These are quick but I wanted to share. If you look at how the light reflects off the girdle you can see it is very very smooth. The 2nd picture shows very nicely how curved and sleek the girdle is. The last one is just a head on shot to show you how it sparkles. The arrows are very prominant in this stone when I look at it (these were taking very quickly sans tripod so the shot I have isn't as good as I can see in person) so I wouldn't use that as a test, but it shows the sparkle and how rainbow like it looks. I didn't have time to get fire, but it is always a rainbow of color with the fire.

Oh and for the record my camera is teal so you will see a lot of teal in the stone. Ignore that

This stone fooled a dumb jeweler from a chain B&M so I know it is pretty good, but I can still see differences.

 

[clgwli]

girdle again very shiny looking. No signs of facets.

 

[clgwli]

Face on shot of the stone

 

[John P]

Date: 5/19/2010 5:27:54 AM
Author: Lorelei

I see beautiful arrows P, I don't think a rapid huge CZ switcheroo would show that level of cutting. I know there are some well cut CZ out there but I don't think like that.

Actually cut-precision awareness is higher among Chinese consumers than in the US or Europe, Lady Lorelei (there is a simple reason for this, if anyone's interested). Therefore far more diamonds and even easily-machined simulants show nice arrows in that market.

But Phoenix... Based on all that has been written I would bet you're fretting for nothing.

Nevertheless, I took the liberty of emailing a friend in Shanghai on your behalf. Contact me offline and I'll put you in touch with her. The next time you're there she will introduce you to a laboratory gemologist who will check your diamond. Until then - don't worry, be happy.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/16/2010 12:55:28 AM
Author: Bella_mezzo

hope that everything is fine Phoenix! Since there''s nothing you can do right now, and the likelyhood of there being an issue sis quite small, I would just take a breath a wait until you can go get the stone from your safe deposit box and have it appraised/examined.

really hope that everything is ok!!!!

Thank you, sweetie. I appreciate your words of reassurance.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/16/2010 1:20:26 AM
Author: Dancing Fire
Phoenix...Geez, stop worrying for nothing!!

I know I know...I can''t help it though!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/16/2010 8:49:22 AM
Author: jgny
Phoenix, I''m sure it will be fine! FWIW, I have a 2ct RB F VS1 that has a blue flash as well, in certain conditions, but it is definitely real, as it is in its original setting and I am familiar with the inclusions. You may also want to get a higher power loupe for future use?

Thank you, jgny. I do have a 20x loupe as well as the regular 10x loupe.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/16/2010 9:00:51 PM
Author: brellymom
I''ll echo the others - don''t think it was switched cuz jewelery''s don''t want to destroy their rep for one diamond, but I am sure you will feel better once you check. It''s just awful not to be able to do it right away I am sure! I wouldn''t worry too much about the blue - here''s a random snap of my diamond with a little bit of blue - so you are probably okay! Fingers crossed just in case.

Thank you, brellymom. It really *is* awful not to be able to check right away. Thanks for pic of yr diamond and for yr crossed fingers.

 

[rhbgirl24]

Date: 5/15/2010 9:17:53 AM
Author: kenny
All of our diamonds have bluish fire too.

They also have yellow, violet, red, orange, green etc.


Does your diamond have only blue fire? or did it have all colors but you took those pics only when the blue was there?

Is it the case that CZs have only blue fire?

Same here, I have captured blue fire on my diamond and I know its real, no worries.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/19/2010 5:27:54 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 5/19/2010 5:10:23 AM
Author: Phoenix
My ring on an overcast day:

I see beautiful arrows P, I don''t think a rapid huge CZ switcheroo would show that level of cutting. I know there are some well cut CZ out there but I don''t think like that.

Thank you, dearest Lorelei. I appreciate your coming back to check on me and for yr kind words of reassurance.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/19/2010 9:04:30 AM
Author: clgwli
These are quick but I wanted to share. If you look at how the light reflects off the girdle you can see it is very very smooth. The 2nd picture shows very nicely how curved and sleek the girdle is. The last one is just a head on shot to show you how it sparkles. The arrows are very prominant in this stone when I look at it (these were taking very quickly sans tripod so the shot I have isn't as good as I can see in person) so I wouldn't use that as a test, but it shows the sparkle and how rainbow like it looks. I didn't have time to get fire, but it is always a rainbow of color with the fire.

Oh and for the record my camera is teal so you will see a lot of teal in the stone. Ignore that

This stone fooled a dumb jeweler from a chain B&M so I know it is pretty good, but I can still see differences.

Thank you soooooooo very much, Jean, for taking the time to take those photos and post them for me, complete with details. I really appreciate it. I also missed what you said about the girdle of a diamond versus that of a CZ in yr previous post. It's very good to see all the photos and be able to tell the difference.

I can see how yr CZ might fool a B&M jeweller. That is one good-looking CZ you have there.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 5/19/2010 5:10:23 AM
Author: Phoenix
My ring on an overcast day:

I wish I could remember how to post a picture that is previously posted. I am listing the shortcut to this picture I want to refer to.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I believe this picture to be a diamond. The arrow that is visible is relatively narrow indicating a nice lower pavilion main. I have never seen a Hearts and Arrows cut CZ that did not have much fatter arrows. The refractive index on CZ is different enough from diamond that some changes are made in the cutting to achieve the H & A image. Even though to the eye they look very much like a diamond, there are subtle differences that reveal them to be CZ.

Normally this would not be visible on camera, but if this picture you took is from after the setting that you speak of, then I do not believe you have anything to worry about. I still agree that you will want to see an independant appraiser or a competent gemologist/jeweler to confirm this, in the meantime I believe you can rest easy.

Wink

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/19/2010 9:44:20 AM
Author: John Pollard

Actually cut-precision awareness is higher among Chinese consumers than in the US or Europe, Lady Lorelei (there is a simple reason for this, if anyone''s interested). Therefore far more diamonds and even easily-machined simulants show nice arrows in that market.

But Phoenix... Based on all that has been written I would bet you''re fretting for nothing.

Nevertheless, I took the liberty of emailing a friend in Shanghai on your behalf. Contact me offline and I''ll put you in touch with her. The next time you''re there she will introduce you to a laboratory gemologist who will check your diamond. Until then - don''t worry, be happy.

I actually would like to know the reason. That sounds very intriguing indeed. All I''ve read and have been told thus far has pointed to the opposite direction, meaning Asians (I know you said Chinese, I wonder if the same is true for other Asians?) tend to prefer higher specs, in terms of colour and clarity but not so much cut, as in ideal cut vs not-so-good cut (when you say "cut precision awareness", I presume this is what you mean?).

Thank you for your kinds words of reassurance and thank you very much also for offering to put me in touch with your friend. How do I contact you offline? Do you have a direct email address, John? I only see a general info email address under "Contact" in the website.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 5/19/2010 11:17:29 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 5/19/2010 5:10:23 AM
Author: Phoenix
My ring on an overcast day:

I wish I could remember how to post a picture that is previously posted. I am listing the shortcut to this picture I want to refer to.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I believe this picture to be a diamond. The arrow that is visible is relatively narrow indicating a nice lower pavilion main. I have never seen a Hearts and Arrows cut CZ that did not have much fatter arrows. The refractive index on CZ is different enough from diamond that some changes are made in the cutting to achieve the H & A image. Even though to the eye they look very much like a diamond, there are subtle differences that reveal them to be CZ.

Normally this would not be visible on camera, but if this picture you took is from after the setting that you speak of, then I do not believe you have anything to worry about. I still agree that you will want to see an independant appraiser or a competent gemologist/jeweler to confirm this, in the meantime I believe you can rest easy.

Wink

I am sooooooo happy and grateful for your post, Wink.

Yes, the pic shown is indeed of the diamond in its current/ latest setting - taken after the 2nd and latest reset.

Definitely I will take my ring to see a gemologist when I am back in SG. I will ask that he shows me the inclusions under the microscope to make sure that they match what is plotted on the GIA cert.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/19/2010 9:44:20 AM
Author: John Pollard

Date: 5/19/2010 5:27:54 AM
Author: Lorelei

I see beautiful arrows P, I don''t think a rapid huge CZ switcheroo would show that level of cutting. I know there are some well cut CZ out there but I don''t think like that.

Actually cut-precision awareness is higher among Chinese consumers than in the US or Europe, Lady Lorelei (there is a simple reason for this, if anyone''s interested). Therefore far more diamonds and even easily-machined simulants show nice arrows in that market.

But Phoenix... Based on all that has been written I would bet you''re fretting for nothing.

Nevertheless, I took the liberty of emailing a friend in Shanghai on your behalf. Contact me offline and I''ll put you in touch with her. The next time you''re there she will introduce you to a laboratory gemologist who will check your diamond. Until then - don''t worry, be happy.

Merci Monsieur, I did remember hearing there were some well cut CZ''s out there, its quite possible that when I read about those it was these that were being referred to.

Thats fantastic to do that for Phoenix, I know it will make her feel better!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 5/16/2010 12:06:05 AM
Author: Phoenix

I''m glad to hear that your diamonds have blueish fire too.

I took tons of photos of the same diamond but don''t have them anymore... think I lost those old photos!

The photos I currently have either show no fire (=no sun); the ones with fire/sun show only the blue fire. There are other diamonds in my possession that I can take pics of, but the stupid sun has been hiding, so any pic I take will just be blah!

Good Q abt CZ''s only having blue fire (?). I hope someone will chime in about that. Maybe I should just buy a CZ and take pics of it when the sun is out (whenever that is) and see. I''ll let you know.

CZs do NOT only have exclusively blue fire. I have an 6.5 mm interlap (H&A cut "1 ct" cz) and it flashes many colors.

 

[luckynumber]

scary thoughts phoenix!!!

i''m crossing all my fingers (and toes) for you!

 

[partgypsy]

I have also never heard that cz''s only flash blue fire. The ones I have flash all the colors of fire. Really the only thing I noticed, is that the intensity of the flash/fire appears stronger in a diamond than a cz, something you can tell across a room.