Cushion Question for Cehrabehra and Others

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/27/2007 10:58:42 PM
Author: boston_jeff

Date: 2/27/2007 10:08:51 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Its funny that you said this because when I was searching, every day I kicked myself and said maybe I should just get a round - but I didn''t WANT a round!!! Now that I have my cushion I *do* want a round - but for a pendant. Much smaller, much less $$ - and a second stone. I think that''ll be perfect. I don''t regret my main stone being a cushion one iota.

Any opinion on my responses to your post above re: specs?

They seem just fine to me! The most important thing when looking for a cushion isn''t looking for what someone *else* likes in a cushion (whether it be me or diagem or MMM or FF) but to go through the list and figure out what YOU want in a cushion, and jeff - you just did that Give those specs to your vendor and I would try to look at at least 3 stones.... or as many as possible. You''re mostly there! Now all that''s left is to wish you luck!!

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/27/2007 7:34:52 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 2/27/2007 6:43:54 PM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/27/2007 6:31:35 PM
Author: DiaGem
Cehra,

Great contribution..., my compliments to you....
I vouch for your posts/threads..., it puts the wonderful wild (and wild is an understatement!!!)world of Cushion Shaped Diamonds into a focused perspective!!!

Cushion Diamond seekers can actually focus themselves upon reading your material!!!

Thumbs UP!!!

BTW, where did you get #11 ?

ahhhh very interesting that you point that out.... because that was the facet plot I wanted cut a long time ago when I couldn''t find what I was looking for. I found it on http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Shape/diamonds-shape-cushion-cut.asp but if you look at the crown faceting you''ll see there is a flaw in the drawing (which I fixed before I put it in my chart) - what I liked about this was that even though the stone is a long stone, the 8 pav mains are still evenly spaced. I identify the flaw on the pavilion side...

I used it to create a mockup of what I wanted in a stone. I never posted this before but this was what I was thinking... mind you this is what I was thinking back when I had only been posting for 2 weeks LOL I didn''t mess wtih the crown facets, they could be tweaked to line up a little better, but I really did love this facet pattern for the bottom... no clue how it would work, but I thought it would be pretty. Mind you this is for pure entertainment only - the work of a true novice LOL Don''t laugh too hard (see pic below)

BTW thank you for your comments, you are my guru You have no idea how much I wish that 2.5Dblue was on MY finger!!

See my correction:

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/28/2007 3:44:56 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/27/2007 7:34:52 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

ahhhh very interesting that you point that out.... because that was the facet plot I wanted cut a long time ago when I couldn''t find what I was looking for. I found it on http://www.diamondsourceva.com/Education/Shape/diamonds-shape-cushion-cut.asp but if you look at the crown faceting you''ll see there is a flaw in the drawing (which I fixed before I put it in my chart) - what I liked about this was that even though the stone is a long stone, the 8 pav mains are still evenly spaced. I identify the flaw on the pavilion side...

See my correction:

I did a pavillion like that as well but I didn''t turn it into the graduated picture... I was playing with this stuff a lot back then... when I said there is a flaw on the crown faceting I meant at the link above... it''s missing a facet junction on the left lol

So as you fixed it, yes... I do think this is very attractive and would love to see it cut. I love the symmetry in the symmetry if that makes sense. Thanks DG for the correction

 

[Cehrabehra]

hehe just for kicks - this was the version I made "fixed" - I like the positioning of yours better but as you see I added a large culet haha July 11th last year... I have several that I made... one with a 6 pav main also but it ended up looking too... I dunno, I'll post it in a bit after the kids are in school.

ETA the difference is that I extended my whatever those junctions are called straight from the 8 mains and you bisected the facets in half which I prefer.

 

[boston_jeff]

OK-- now I just need to find a ~2ct G/H VS2/SI1 VG/VG 8-main antique-cut cushion that doesn''t break the bank!

I have been told by a vendor that the type of stone I am looking for is in limited production (after modifieds, 4-main, modern 8-mains)... does that mean that I should expect to pay more/carat for an antique-cut cushion as opposed to a comparable cushion with a different facet pattern?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/28/2007 11:30:52 PM
Author: boston_jeff
OK-- now I just need to find a ~2ct G/H VS2/SI1 VG/VG 8-main antique-cut cushion that doesn''t break the bank!

I have been told by a vendor that the type of stone I am looking for is in limited production (after modifieds, 4-main, modern 8-mains)... does that mean that I should expect to pay more/carat for an antique-cut cushion as opposed to a comparable cushion with a different facet pattern?

I think you should be able to find that for less than 15k... actually the antique style cuts are generally LESS expensive. You just might have to WAIT longer.

 

[Cehrabehra]

yeah there isn''t much out there on BN right now.... http://www.bluenile.com/diamonds_details.asp?__fun_frm=i&pid=LD00964113&filter_id=0#grading_report that''s all I''ve found so far.... coincidentally it is the type you were first inquiring about LOL

 

[boston_jeff]

I found this one, which is an H/VS1 with only Good Symmetry, and the table is a little big (60%)...

Do you think Good Symmetry is a major problem with this type of cut? Should I stay focused on VG?

Could a vendor other than BN call this stone in?

 

[Gypsy]

I found these at WF... this link will take you to them. If you click on the Cert pic it will show you the plots... all but one of them have one. I didn't weed any plots out, I figured you could do that. Also... I only searched for H and higher in color... I didn't know your comfort zone. The depth on them is okay... but not ideal.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Compare_Diamonds.aspx?idnos=65840,99702,111507,98103,172090

ETA: I just looked at your comment on price. These are all higher than you'd like. Sorry.

 

[boston_jeff]

Thanks so much for doing some legwork on my behalf, Gypsy!

Those are mostly modifieds, although the one without the cert looks intriguing.

I'm trying to keep the stone under $17500 at the most (which I think most of those would be with the PS discount).

ETA: Gypsy, why did you think the depths on those stones was not ideal? Seemed pretty good to me for the most part... a little high for your taste?

 

[diagem]

Date: 3/1/2007 2:15:19 AM
Author: Gypsy
I found these at WF... this link will take you to them. If you click on the Cert pic it will show you the plots... all but one of them have one. I didn''t weed any plots out, I figured you could do that. Also... I only searched for H and higher in color... I didn''t know your comfort zone. The depth on them is okay... but not ideal.

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Compare_Diamonds.aspx?idnos=65840,99702,111507,98103,172090

ETA: I just looked at your comment on price. These are all higher than you''d like. Sorry.

Sorry Gypsy,

Unless you are talking about a "branded/patented" type Cushion shaped Diamond.

The term "Ideal" should not be used to present/market/sell Cushion Shaped Diamonds!!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/1/2007 3:10:45 AM
Author: boston_jeff
Thanks so much for doing some legwork on my behalf, Gypsy!

Those are mostly modifieds, although the one without the cert looks intriguing.

I''m trying to keep the stone under $17500 at the most (which I think most of those would be with the PS discount).

ETA: Gypsy, why did you think the depths on those stones was not ideal? Seemed pretty good to me for the most part... a little high for your taste?

I would call (or continue working with) mark T and just be patient.... if he *knows* what you''re looking for he''ll let you know when he finds it! He doesn''t forget, it just might take a bit but it will be a far less painful process than any other in the long run.

I bought mine at BN (you probably know that lol) but if I had to replace it I''d go to Mark and wait... for however long it took.

WF can source a diamond you find, but they don''t really stock any and it isn''t their speciality at all. Not to say you couldn''t find a great diamond with them, but odds are better/quicker/cheaper playing the wait game with mark. He has a proven record for cushions.

And the depths on those stones looked totally fine to me (depending on crown and everything else lol) *I* might want the tables a little smaller but they were all under 60 so I''m not gonna complain LOL There are some lovely stones for 60 tables and if the LGF are short that could make a very sparkly stone!

 

[elmo]

Jeff, do you have to have 2 carats? There are great 1.8s that are still 7.5x7 to 8x7, and H-VS would run much less than your budget. Stones like this are available, for instance a very photogenic, real antique with great proportions I was offered at about $10K, H-VS2, but as Cehra says I think you could almost stand it up on the culet

. Which I actually like.

I wouldn't worry at all about "good" symmetry in a cushion that isn't one of expensive ex/ex "ideal" Daniel K types. I think most folks would agree.

Edit: Agree with Cehra - Mark T is in walking distance of many/most of the stones on the market like this, knows most of the sellers, and can easily check something out for you. Much better than blindly ordering based on a report which only hints at what might actually look good.

 

[boston_jeff]

Any opinions on the stone I posted?

Relatedly, can vendors call in stones that are listed on BN?

Elmo: I don''t need 2 carats, but my GF would say otherwise. I am more interested in how big the stone faces up, but since cushions need to be somewhat deep I am wary of a "spready" cushion. But if you can point me in the direction of a stone in the 1.8-1.95 range, I''d certainly check them out.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/1/2007 10:27:12 AM
Author: elmo
Jeff, do you have to have 2 carats? There are great 1.8s that are still 7.5x7 to 8x7, and H-VS would run much less than your budget. Stones like this are available, for instance a very photogenic, real antique with great proportions I was offered at about $10K, H-VS2, but as Cehra says I think you could almost stand it up on the culet

. Which I actually like.

I wouldn''t worry at all about ''good'' symmetry in a cushion that isn''t one of expensive ex/ex ''ideal'' Daniel K types. I think most folks would agree.

Edit: Agree with Cehra - Mark T is in walking distance of many/most of the stones on the market like this, knows most of the sellers, and can easily check something out for you. Much better than blindly ordering based on a report which only hints at what might actually look good.

I don''t know that I wouldn''t worry but I''d do it case by case... it''s hard to find VGVG but I did - and occasionally you''ll see an EX but good luck with that! LOL I wouldn''t give up on "good" but I''d want to see it - I imagine the range of "good" is fairly wide. On an older style cushion you could get away with it being funky - or not want to LOL

 

[boston_jeff]

Thanks for the advice on the "good" symmetry issue. I would very much like to find a VG/VG in my price range, for peace of mind.

Is it proper etiquette to ask a vendor you are working with if they can call in a stone you found on Bluenile?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/1/2007 12:21:17 PM
Author: boston_jeff
Thanks for the advice on the ''good'' symmetry issue. I would very much like to find a VG/VG in my price range, for peace of mind.

Is it proper etiquette to ask a vendor you are working with if they can call in a stone you found on Bluenile?

I did - but don''t be surprised if they cannot. I was working with a vendor (not mark t) and I found a stone that called to me on BN and they couldn''t source it

cushions can be all over the place in price... I got my J vs2 2.71 carat stone for less than you''re budgeting and it is VG/VG and the cut was also considered VG by BN (and not many of them are) I think cushions are going up in price - they''re catching on!

 

[elmo]

Date: 3/1/2007 11:36:11 AM
Author: boston_jeff
I don''t need 2 carats, but my GF would say otherwise.

GF is the boss. I wouldn''t waste time looking for anything else

.

I think in general 1.8 is where you''d save money. Too hard to find a decent 1.9 (cutter will do whatever it takes to get 2) and any you find would be almost at the 2 carat price.

Requiring VG polish and symmetry will limit your choices. Still nice to see, and less of a problem if there''s flexibility with other aspects.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/1/2007 11:36:11 AM
Author: boston_jeff
Any opinions on the stone I posted?

Relatedly, can vendors call in stones that are listed on BN?

Elmo: I don''t need 2 carats, but my GF would say otherwise. I am more interested in how big the stone faces up, but since cushions need to be somewhat deep I am wary of a ''spready'' cushion. But if you can point me in the direction of a stone in the 1.8-1.95 range, I''d certainly check them out.

yeah if you want spready, go for an oval... same weight as my stone, I saw an oval today that was like 12x8!! And cheaper!!! LOL

 

[Cehrabehra]

Jeff, are you in a hurry? because if you aren''t, I wouldn''t budge on anything... or be sure to prioritize your choices to your vendor so if you do have to give he knows where to take it from.... kwim? like ratio or color or maybe good polish is okay but you want vg sym... or the opposite. etc.

 

[boston_jeff]

Date: 3/1/2007 1:19:34 PM
Author: Cehrabehra
Jeff, are you in a hurry? because if you aren''t, I wouldn''t budge on anything... or be sure to prioritize your choices to your vendor so if you do have to give he knows where to take it from.... kwim? like ratio or color or maybe good polish is okay but you want vg sym... or the opposite. etc.

I need the ring to be complete by May 15th. Leon Mege will be setting the stone in a plain solitaire setting, and he has said 3-4 weeks for that. I would like to get the stone to him 6 weeks before I need the ring to play it safe, which would basically be the beginning of April. So I have about 4 weeks to find a stone.

 

[elmo]

I don't consider this one spready - just pretty darned well made, particularly for a real antique, approximately 8x7, 62 depth, 52 table, 1.8ct.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/1/2007 2:36:31 PM
Author: elmo
I don''t consider this one spready - just pretty darned well made, particularly for a real antique, approximately 8x7, 62 depth, 52 table, 1.8ct.

it is pretty but that culet might be even on the large size for *me* LOL!! That is a lovely stone and it does look very symmetrical for a true antique!

 

[boston_jeff]

Hey Elmo,

GF is definitely the boss, but if two stones were of equivalent beauty and approximately equivalent size face-up, I would much rather save the money and get the 1.85 than the 2.0 just for the number.

That culet is a little big for me, but otherwise that stone looks great. Any others?

 

[boston_jeff]

Just wanted to thank everyone for helping me out on this thread... the response was better than I could have imagined!

I''m now working with a vendor, and hopefully will get lucky.

Best,
Jeff

 

[elmo]

Absolutely the best strategy I think, let a vendor who hopefully understands cushions help out. Not much time left. The problem that folks like Cehra and me have run into is that after looking at some stones and doing our homework here, we end up knowing more about cushions than most local jewelry stores. It's pretty scary.

Last post from me for now, here's what I think of as a Pricescope special given many folks preferences here

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/386/GIA15598140_zoom.jpeg - 2.35 J VS2 with strong blue fluorescence, huge face-up size, promising dimensions. Possibly reminiscent of Cehra's stone. No telling what it looks like.

 

[boston_jeff]

Yeah, Elmo, that J/VS2 certainly is an adventure... 50% table!

I''m having the H/VS1 I listed above called in to have the vendor look at. Most of the stones I have seen available are only Good symmetry, so I figure I will at least give that stone a chance (maybe its at the top of the Good range).

Should I be concerned about a girdle that ranges from Thin-Thick? Is it a case by case issue that the vendor should be able to help me with?

 

[elmo]

Date: 3/2/2007 1:43:56 PM
Author: boston_jeff
I'm having the H/VS1 I listed above called in to have the vendor look at. Most of the stones I have seen available are only Good symmetry, so I figure I will at least give that stone a chance (maybe its at the top of the Good range).

Should I be concerned about a girdle that ranges from Thin-Thick? Is it a case by case issue that the vendor should be able to help me with?

As you say, it's something to ask the person you're working with about, but I doubt thin-thick is an issue here at all, any more than good/good. It's more of a concern to the person buying a super-ideal round where two tenths of a degree crown angle and a minor polish issue can make a difference between nice and best of the best.

For this type of cushion I think there are more important things to worry about - how attractive is the outline, how it performs in various lighting conditions, is the spread reasonable for the weight, is the pavilion faceting arrangement what you prefer.

In general, when a range is given, the first things I wonder about are whether it's more thin or more thick, and how uniform it is. If the stone is just over two carats, the cutter probably hid some unseen hundredths of a carat in that girdle, but he knows and your GF knows that it's fine as long as he made 2 carats

. If the more important things check out (i.e. spread is still good), it doesn't matter.

In terms of good vs. very good symmetry, realize that they're not grading light performance. A lot of what's graded for symmetry is the facet meet points - how each facet side is aligned to the facet side next to it, which is cool from a workmanship standpoint but not something you'll see in normal viewing.

If you're concerned about these sorts of details, add some budget and take a look at the ex/ex "ideal" cushions that we're not going to call ideal. They don't look at all like an old cut but they're very well made and perform well. They're the ones you see in the lists here that are priced 20% higher than other stones of the same color and clarity

. Two carat G-VS will cost you low-mid 20s though.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/2/2007 1:28:52 PM
Author: elmo
Absolutely the best strategy I think, let a vendor who hopefully understands cushions help out. Not much time left. The problem that folks like Cehra and me have run into is that after looking at some stones and doing our homework here, we end up knowing more about cushions than most local jewelry stores. It''s pretty scary.

Last post from me for now, here''s what I think of as a Pricescope special given many folks preferences here

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/386/GIA15598140_zoom.jpeg - 2.35 J VS2 with strong blue fluorescence, huge face-up size, promising dimensions. Possibly reminiscent of Cehra''s stone. No telling what it looks like.

yes, that does look awesome - so awesome you can no longer find it on BN!! How much was it? do you have a direct link?

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 3/2/2007 1:28:52 PM
Author: elmo
Absolutely the best strategy I think, let a vendor who hopefully understands cushions help out. Not much time left. The problem that folks like Cehra and me have run into is that after looking at some stones and doing our homework here, we end up knowing more about cushions than most local jewelry stores. It''s pretty scary.

Last post from me for now, here''s what I think of as a Pricescope special given many folks preferences here

http://www.bluenile.com/certs/386/GIA15598140_zoom.jpeg - 2.35 J VS2 with strong blue fluorescence, huge face-up size, promising dimensions. Possibly reminiscent of Cehra''s stone. No telling what it looks like.

also... yes on the cushion expert thing.... many stores I go into have never head of a cushion let alone know that there is more than one type (I don''t imagine they know there is more than one type of princess -chevron #- either and more than likely these are people calling asschers princesses LOL). Heck, forget cushions, I''ve walked in knowing more about ROUNDS hahaha!!!