Heartbroken: USPS lost preloved Moline pearl earrings

[Home73]

I don’t think anyone is pulling an Al Capone here.

That is an excellent example. How are we going to claim this tax loss if not with a 1099 form? I am sure we can do it without it but it would help if audited.

And when it comes to a plus I am not saying we are criminals trying not to pay taxes. It just makes some of us uneasy to not comply with the rules fully for several reasons.

But besides the tax issue I don't understand why we would give away this valuable protection G&S offers? Especially with our valuable jewelry.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

I don’t think anyone is pulling an Al Capone here.

Thank you for this. I have NEVER sold a piece at a profit, far from it.

 

[lulu_ma]

Over $600 annually, Paypal will withhold 24% of whatever you receive for G & S sales.

 

[Home73]

Over $600 annually, Paypal will withhold 24% of whatever you receive for G & S sales.

Is that new this year? I have sold G&S for years, have gotten 1099Ks for years (my state required it for $600 and over since 2018 I think) and I have not seen this before. Good to know.

 

[lulu_ma]

Is that new this year? I have sold G&S for years, have gotten 1099Ks for years (my state required it for $600 and over since 2018 I think) and I have not seen this before. Good to know.

Threshold used to be $20000. $600 reporting threshold took effect this year for IL, MS, MA, VT and VA.

Actual 24% withholding takes effect in 2025.

 

[Dreamer_D]

On the broader issue of selling and insurance, I have not sold anything in ages. But when I did I always considered that the item belonged to me, the seller, until the buyer received the piece. Since any insurance I purchase would be in my name and I would receive the payout with a claim, I also always assumed it was my responsibility to insure the things I sold if I wanted the coverage. I have seen sellers on eBay offering the choice of insurance. I always thought that was a strange thing to offer, since in PayPal and eBay the seller is on the hook if the item doesn’t arrive.

Anyway, sellers — the insurance is ultimately to protect *you*, not the buyer. It should not be considered optional.

 

[Home73]

On the broader issue of selling and insurance, I have not sold anything in ages. But when I did I always considered that the item belonged to me, the seller, until the buyer received the piece. Since any insurance I purchase would be in my name and I would receive the payout with a claim, I also always assumed it was my responsibility to insure the things I sold if I wanted the coverage. I have seen sellers on eBay offering the choice of insurance. I always thought that was a strange thing to offer, since in PayPal and eBay the seller is on the hook if the item doesn’t arrive.

Anyway, sellers — the insurance is ultimately to protect *you*, not the buyer. It should not be considered optional.

You explained it much better than me. lol I completely agree and see it the same way. So G&S and buying insurance go hand in hand. It protects both sides.

Now if we do F&F, might as well not offer insurance because we are not forced to do anything. Even with insurance, if the seller does not follow up, the buyer has no way of claiming the loss.

 

[yssie]

I don't want to analyze and find blame with the seller or buyer here. But I think we need to address one of the main problems that leads to this: It's the Paypal Friends&Family usage.

I know we all do it as it saves us taxes and fees but it is categorically wrong. In this situation the buyer would have had a claim of not receiving an item and would have had support from Paypal and all kinds of agreements could have worked out with the seller.
Using F&F for the sale of actual goods and services (and that is what we do here) is against Paypal rules and might get your account banned. It is also tax evasion.
Now many of the sellers will only sell with that feature. It basically means it's a cash gift not hooked to the exchange of an item. The seller does not even need to mail the item. It opens us up to so much fraud.....

I think as a preloved community we should be more open to G&S. And it also protects the seller against claims from the buyer like charge backs etc. This feature will also be helpful if the item still appears later. By then the seller might have paid part of the claim from the post office 100$ insurance. But if that payment is done also via F&F they can not claim it back later when the earrings still show up.

In any case I do not mail any jewelry without the full insurance coverage. No matter what the buyer indicates.

Hope this works all out for both sides!

One can (and should) file income taxes regardless of payment method. Using F&F doesn’t negate one’s capability of paying income/use tax as appropriate.

 

[luckygreen317]

Don't go.

We don't think badly of you at all and your reputation is fully intact. This has been a valuable learning exercise about insurance and how USPS does business.

Show of hands who wants @Asscherhalo_lover to stay?

(Begonia's hand up)

This is an unfortunate situation @Asscherhalo_lover.
Please don’t let one situation take away 17 years as a member on this forum. I have learned from this experience and will no longer offer PayPal F&F.

 

[monarch64]

Good grief @Asscherhalo_lover don’t leave over this. Your rep isn’t damaged, but I definitely know who NOT to do business with now. Hint: it’s not you. Cool off and come back.

 

[Dreamer_D]

You explained it much better than me. lol I completely agree and see it the same way. So G&S and buying insurance go hand in hand. It protects both sides.

Now if we do F&F, might as well not offer insurance because we are not forced to do anything. Even with insurance, if the seller does not follow up, the buyer has no way of claiming the loss.

Agreed. When I used to sell I always used PayPal goods and service and sent the buyer an invoice including the details of the item and the terms of sale, so there was documentation to protect us all (as much as that is possible).

 

[Mreader]

Threshold used to be $20000. $600 reporting threshold took effect this year for IL, MS, MA, VT and VA.

Actual 24% withholding takes effect in 2025.

Ridiculous

 

[Home73]

Ridiculous

UncleSam needs his taxes. lol
I assume this will impact paypal and other payment providers greatly and less compliance with G&S will happen. Sometimes things have the opposite effect. I am curious how it will all play out.

 

[Home73]

One can (and should) file income taxes regardless of payment method. Using F&F doesn’t negate one’s capability of paying income/use tax as appropriate.

You are absolutely correct. But since I declare my income from selling my jewelry (if I have any) anyway why not use G&S?! I can deduct the fee from my profit and reduce my taxes and I have the protection. And if we can claim a loss then the loss will be even bigger with paypal fee. I see no financial disadvantage over F&F.

 

[Mreader]

UncleSam needs his taxes. lol
I assume this will impact paypal and other payment providers greatly and less compliance with G&S will happen. Sometimes things have the opposite effect. I am curious how it will all play out.

I knew they abandoned it in 2024 and was hoping the same in 25. I never sell at a profit and it will be a headache to produce the receipts to prove it (I’m unsure how that even works!).

 

[Pumpkin Sparkles]

Threshold used to be $20000. $600 reporting threshold took effect this year for IL, MS, MA, VT and VA.

Actual 24% withholding takes effect in 2025.

If I’m not mistaken I believe they changed the threshold for 2024 in May for $5,000. But I could be wrong, I use Venmo sometimes and this is what popped up.

 

[fiona00004]

@Asscherhalo_lover
There is no pending fraud case in your PayPal, just FYI. It was closed the same day it was created because, as I said, I called them to fix it.

It's unfortunate that my emails were just not getting to you, and that I was not updated at certain times. Had there been better communication, i think all this 'mess' could have been avoided.

I still stand by my actions of trying to get updates the regular email way but having to go by further means since I felt like my messages were not getting through for reasons I had no way of knowing. Personally, if I found out that I was not receiving the messages that someone claims they sent, I would find a way to fix it.

Everyone makes mistakes. Mine were to not choose insured shipping, and not pay through goods and services. The next mistake I made was to think that the seller would entertain the idea of covering for any 'losses'. I tried.

I appreciate the loyalties of those who stand by @Asscherhalo_lover , I am sure it's appreciated on her end.

 

[monarch64]

@Asscherhalo_lover
There is no pending fraud case in your PayPal, just FYI. It was closed the same day it was created because, as I said, I called them to fix it.

It's unfortunate that my emails were just not getting to you, and that I was not updated at certain times. Had there been better communication, i think all this 'mess' could have been avoided.

I still stand by my actions of trying to get updates the regular email way but having to go by further means since I felt like my messages were not getting through for reasons I had no way of knowing. Personally, if I found out that I was not receiving the messages that someone claims they sent, I would find a way to fix it.

Everyone makes mistakes. Mine were to not choose insured shipping, and not pay through goods and services. The next mistake I made was to think that the seller would entertain the idea of covering for any 'losses'. I tried.

I appreciate the loyalties of those who stand by @Asscherhalo_lover , I am sure it's appreciated on her end.

I’d quit while I was less deep in the hole I’d dug for myself if I were you. But go off, Queen.

 

[lulu_ma]

If I’m not mistaken I believe they changed the threshold for 2024 in May for $5,000. But I could be wrong, I use Venmo sometimes and this is what popped up.

I hadn’t heard about the $5k threshold for Venmo. I’m just getting data from the Paypal website, specifically.

 

[Pumpkin Sparkles]

I hadn’t heard about the $5k threshold for Venmo. I’m just getting data from the Paypal website, specifically.

That’s crazy, I’ve looked into selling on eBay for that reason I just found out like 2 days ago (a friend sales vintage clothing and her husband sales handmade items)I have since changed my mind (I’m not sure I can deal with some of the people) lol but I looked on eBay and they also have the $5000 limit. Very briefly I used to sell some of my items and high end shoes on postmark but have since closed my account, I couldn’t deal with the low balling constantly.

 

[Ella]

Folks, there is a lot of misinformation about there about goods and services and taxes, and I see a bit of it being shared in this thread.

It is always worth it to protect yourself with G&S and purchase from a legit for sale platform with a clear dispute resolution process. Pricescope cannot be that dispute resolution arbiter, please do not get us involved in sales.

Two important things to note:
1. Those thresholds can be state dependent, so you need to look up what the threshold is in *your* state for 2024 and 2025. They also only apply as to when paypal, etc. will be required to send you a 1099 form for your taxes. If you are selling personal jewelry at a loss, as you should be here on Preloved, you do not have to pay taxes on those sales. It's just a form they will send you, and then you will report to the IRS that there was no profit. Yes it is one extra step, but no extra money.
2. They will ONLY withold the 24% if you do not provide them a US Tax ID or a Certificate of Foreign Status. If you share your tax ID with paypal, they will not withhold.

This information can be found on their many FAQs about this policy change. We strongly recommend everyone use protected payment types as there are many scenarios where they help both buyers AND sellers.

 

[springerspaniel]

Folks, there is a lot of misinformation about there about goods and services and taxes, and I see a bit of it being shared in this thread.

It is always worth it to protect yourself with G&S and purchase from a legit for sale platform with a clear dispute resolution process. Pricescope cannot be that dispute resolution arbiter, please do not get us involved in sales.

Two important things to note:
1. Those thresholds can be state dependent, so you need to look up what the threshold is in *your* state for 2024 and 2025. They also only apply as to when paypal, etc. will be required to send you a 1099 form for your taxes. If you are selling personal jewelry at a loss, as you should be here on Preloved, you do not have to pay taxes on those sales. It's just a form they will send you, and then you will report to the IRS that there was no profit. Yes it is one extra step, but no extra money.
2. They will ONLY withold the 24% if you do not provide them a US Tax ID or a Certificate of Foreign Status. If you share your tax ID with paypal, they will not withhold.

This information can be found on their many FAQs about this policy change. We strongly recommend everyone use protected payment types as there are many scenarios where they help both buyers AND sellers.

@Ella you are a rare gem here on PS. Thank you for all you do!

 

[lulu_ma]

@Ella thanks for the point of clarification on the 24% withholding.

Just for clarification-I was just complaining about the $600 annual threshold-which I think is ridiculous. This is an IRS issue, not a Paypal specific issue.

 

[Bron357]

Ok, my 5 cents.
When you use PayPal family and friends it’s to save on / not pay the usual PayPal fees. PayPal currently offers that option BUT it is made very clear that there is no recourse for either party, sender or receiver.
PayPal does not take kindly to attempts, in their opinion, to defraud. So lodging a claim for reimbursement comes with a warning. For example, if say you pay with a Visa card and realize you can’t claim through PayPal (you tried claiming but got denied or you used friends and family) so you make a claim with Visa instead. Visa is more inclined to refund if you say someone used your card without permission. So PayPal then gets a chargeback. They won’t be pleased. You will likely find your PayPal account closed and that is that. They can also close any related accounts.
As far a shipping goes, it is the buyers choice to get insurance. Again, people like to save money so decide not to buy insurance. Everyone is happy until the parcel goes missing. Then any reimbursement will depend on the carrier, if no insurance it’s often $0 or a nominal amount like $50. If you want to receive back your full payment in the event of loss the only way to guarantee that is to pay for insurance.
So, in the case it is very unfortunate that the earrings went missing but unfortunately, even at law, the buyer is without recourse unless they can prove fraudulent use of their bank account to pay and the choice to not insure to cover loss was the buyers decision.

 

[Dreamer_D]

It costs the government more to try and recoup these small potatoes tax amounts than it earns doing so!

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i dont know about anyone else but im distrought that some Andrew Moline studs are put these somewhere lost

 

[whimsicism]

I’d quit while I was less deep in the hole I’d dug for myself if I were you. But go off, Queen.

I feel that this is uncalled-for and incredibly rude. I've read the posts and don't feel that fiona is in the wrong -- if anything they're pretty polite and understanding in saying that everyone makes mistakes.

Based on what fiona and asscher have said, it's clear that fiona came here to complain because they've tried contacting asscher and could not get a response after 5 August. Asscher then replied in ALL CAPS (!!) to say that they've emailed fiona around 19 August.

Asscher later admitted that the email doesn't seem to have gone out because of issues with their email service provider. In that post asscher also decided to make excuses about how they had to live life etc without the smallest bit of apology or acknowledgement that fiona was on here because they've been ghosted (from their perspective) for about a month and was getting anxious about the claim that only asscher can apply for. Hey, in fiona's position I'd have assumed that I just got scammed. Hell, I've given and applied for a Paypal refund once after getting strung along for months (!!) by some Instagram seller who is still carrying on her business on there!

Look, I get that it was a mistake and I feel that innocent mistakes can happen to anybody and I absolutely don't think that asscher was out to scam anybody at all, but it feels incredibly unfair that some people have decided on turn on fiona like this.

 

[monarch64]

I feel that this is uncalled-for and incredibly rude. I've read the posts and don't feel that fiona is in the wrong -- if anything they're pretty polite and understanding in saying that everyone makes mistakes.

Based on what fiona and asscher have said, it's clear that fiona came here to complain because they've tried contacting asscher and could not get a response after 5 August. Asscher then replied in ALL CAPS (!!) to say that they've emailed fiona around 19 August.

Asscher later admitted that the email doesn't seem to have gone out because of issues with their email service provider. In that post asscher also decided to make excuses about how they had to live life etc without the smallest bit of apology or acknowledgement that fiona was on here because they've been ghosted (from their perspective) for about a month and was getting anxious about the claim that only asscher can apply for. Hey, in fiona's position I'd have assumed that I just got scammed. Hell, I've given and applied for a Paypal refund once after getting strung along for months (!!) by some Instagram seller who is still carrying on her business on there!

Look, I get that it was a mistake and I feel that innocent mistakes can happen to anybody and I absolutely don't think that asscher was out to scam anybody at all, but it feels incredibly unfair that some people have decided on turn on fiona like this.

You can be offended on Fiona’s behalf all you want, but asscherhalolover has been part of this forum (as she noted) for 17 years and has successfully done business with folks here. She also has worked with DBL. She isn’t just some random person lurking here and deliberately scamming people, and Fiona (having been here for over a decade herself) knows that. Fiona admitted she just doesn’t like feeling ghosted so she decided to continue pressuring asscher, which…whatever. But to then bring all this here and act like a child about it was over the top. Shit happens. This was done on a holiday weekend. Starting this thread in hopes of forcing assher to answer her was manipulative and hostile. But you’ve been here since oh, 2019, so I guess you know better than the rest of us.

 

[lulu_ma]

@Ella I am requesting that you close/ delete this thread. The two parties involved are now in contact with each other. I think everyone here can agree that using Paypal G&S and fully insuring shipments is the best practice.

This discussion has devolved into a toxic 'she said/she said' situation, which goes against the usual positive vibe of the PS community.

 

[Heathcat24]

This is such an unfortunate situation, and I honestly just feel horrible for both parties involved! One of my biggest fears is jewelry disappearing in the mail. I truly hope the earrings miraculously appear in your mailbox, @fiona00004 !

I also feel for you, @Asscherhalo_lover ! I had to deal with a similar lost package incident recently, and it is so stressful! I hope it is resolved soon!

The questions I have are more from a legal perspective: as a private seller, when does ownership transfer legally to the buyer? In other words, when does @fiona00004 assume legal ownership of the earrings? When she pays for them? When @Asscherhalo_lover ships them? Or when she receives them?

I guess I am asking, in the eyes of the law, who owns those earrings right now?

Because I think that is important, regardless of the payment method or insurance.

I have ordered non-jewelry items and had them go missing in the mail. I have eventually been refunded for those items because I never received them. But those items were from businesses. How is it different for private sellers?