Khalil Mahmoud

[missy]

@Mreader there were no indiscriminate attacks on civilians. Never. Israel always warned them to get out of the area if an attack was planned against Hamas.

 

[missy]

What puzzles me about your acrimony for former admin

In addition to my comments above? I explained why. They did nothing to protect Jewish students. Nothing. Did you read about them having to barricade themselves from the “peaceful “ demonstrators ? They could not attend classes. Their safety was jeopardized. How is that acceptable?



Additionally the Democratic administration funded terrorism. They were playing both sides. And threatened Israel to tie their hands. They were not friends to Israel as they claimed to be. Actions over words are what matter. I followed very closely as a former Democratic supporter.

These democrats are not the democrat's we grew up with decades ago. Not even close

 

[Rockdiamond]

There's a lot of Jewish people who think that questioning the actions of the Israeli Government and IDF are the best way to protect Israel. Looking at 10/7 in a vacuum...overlooks so much that was going on at that moment and now.
Where was the army? Who was in charge? Do they bear any responsibility for the failures in defense?
It's been suggested and it really seems to be a fact- that the leaders of the government agreed to "look the other way" at Gaza so they could have free reign in the West Bank.
Bottom line is that it's a moot discussion.
The right wing is firmly in control… here and there ...talk of shipping 2 million people to other parts of Africa....I just don't see how this sort of position will help us in the long run...But again, it's moot. The people in charge are steamrolling ahead. This discussion ain’t gonna change a thing.
As far as one side or the other being anti Israel: the heritage foundation has a blueprint for ending support to Israel. Part of project 2025. You can’t make this stuff up.

 

[missy]

David, it’s always wise to question government.

The point remains our enemies want us dead. Want Israel destroyed
Nothing will ever change that

 

[Rfisher]

Right now Columbia is basically being blackmailed with the cancellation of $400 million in federal funding and most of those dollars have nothing to do with this conflict. They had to do with all kinds of scientific research that’s now on hold. That’s just terrible for the country. And this threat is looming for other universities as well.

This is one reason why this is so important in terms of the violation of free speech and the first amendment because if he doesn’t get due process, then it sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of the country and education as a whole is being severely threatened.

Just recently in the Texas legislature, there’s some idiotic bill that’s being introduced whereby government will be able to oversee every faculty senate meeting, that those meetings need to be recorded, that they overseeing hiring of Chairs, Deans, Provost, combing for DEI - all
of it smacks of a totalitarian regime.

What’s is a level above smacks?

 

[Rockdiamond]

David, it’s always wise to question government

I’m glad we’re on the same page on this aspect.
What seems to be happening is that anyone who is questioning the actions of the Israeli government is easily accused of antisemitism. Or if the person is Jewish, they’re a “ bad Jew”. Can you think of a more effective way to divide us?

 

[Mreader]

What’s is a level above smacks?

I don’t understand the question

 

[Rfisher]

I don’t understand the question

I’m sorry!

‘All of it smacks of a totalitarian regime’

I absolutely agree with what you’ve stated and am looking for a word stronger than smacks, in this context.

 

[Rockdiamond]

The goal of this deportation is not to protect students- not at all.
The goal is to force thinking people to defend a reprehensible character- not because they agree with what he’s saying. They are defending freedom of speech. It’s no longer an academic question. How long before criticism of our government is considered deportable?
Green card?
Citizen?
Doesn’t matter.
That’s where we’re headed.
The fact that many Jewish people are defending his right to speak …. Fantastic way to separate us into “good Jews” and “bad Jews”

 

[nala]

I respectfully disagree Matata. There is no genocide happening against Hamas. They are a murderous terrorist organization. Israel has every right to defend herself. Every. Right. Don't blame Israel for defending herself against a murderous rampage. Any one of us in this situation would protect themselves as best as they could. Any one of us

But if we are talking about genocide...here are the actual genocides happening all over the world.

These are the real victims of massacres, genocides and ethnic cleansing:

South Sudan
Sudan
Nigeria
Congo
Syria
Israel


A genocide is happening in Syria at this very minute
Thousands and thousands of Christians and Alawites just massacred in Syria
20,000 murdered
And innocent Muslims are also being murdered here
All in the name of Allah
Massacring Christians, Alawites and Druze


And the Perpetrators are Jihadists/Islamists

Fact.

Why is everyone remaining silent about this?
Do you care about these murders?
About these innocent humans being mercilessly tortured and killed by Jihadists?

Or does this not fit your ( the general "your" not you specifically Matata) narrative?

Speak out for what is right

Because just like the Israel vs Palestine war—not our circus, not our monkeys! We do not have to swear allegiance to a conflict of religion!!! We did not initiate this war! We do not live there. We do not vote there.
My parents are from Mexico. That does not mean that I go around expecting every American to sympathize with Mexican conflicts! That is why I am American! And believe me, we have enough to worry about here!

 

[nala]

This is true Nala. But the fact is, like it or not, had the past administration taken a zero tolerance stance on the harassment and intimidation of Jewish students things might have been different.The fact is those defending Mahmoud under the free speech argument couldn't be bothered to care about the Jewish students being prevented from attending classes and from being physically harassed.

The fact is the Democratic party had over a year to shut down the violent protests. Arrest those students who were violent and PROTECT the jewish students. They did nothing. Jewish students were forced to BARRICADE themselves in their dorm rooms, in the libraries and attics to avoid the threat of physical assault, to avoid physical harm and they had to tolerate death threats from what some here are calling "peaceful protests". BS and you (should) know it.

The fact is anti semitism is present on both sides of politics. 100% true.
But, only one side is doing anything to protect the jewish people.

You are exaggerating the damage that was inflicted on Jewish students.

 

[Matata]

These are the real victims of massacres, genocides and ethnic cleansing:

South Sudan
Sudan
Nigeria
Congo
Syria
Israel

I'm not going to disagree about a definition from a dictionary. I provided it as a base for the point I was making. Did you notice that Sudan, a country currently in the throes of genocide, is one that our leader and Israel's leader approached to take surviving Gazans, the very definition of ethnic cleansing. The cruelty of that idea takes my breath away.

I've never disputed that Israel has the right to defend itself and I understand that the way Hamas operates made it necessary for Israel to commit crimes against humanity (according to the UN) in order to achieve its objectives. And I know that there are civilians in Gaza who are members of or sympathetic to Hamas. All of that does not extinguish the anguish, anger, and frustration from the deaths of Gazan women and children and the long term suffering they are experiencing. Those are the same emotions that I felt for Israel on Oct. 7 and continue to feel to this day.

What makes this even more frustrating is the futility of the conflict. It will not stop Islamic extremists from killing Jews and it will not stop the cultivation of more terrorists. The numbers of people in the world who hate Jews to extinction exceed the number of Jews in the world. As we've mentioned before, most if not all of those who want to exterminate the Jewish people also want to enslave/exterminate Western countries/people. So I suppose eventually another world war is coming our way one way or another, if not due to the actions of radical Islamists, then due to conflicts between eastern and western nations. And after that...more of the same as long as humans exist.

 

[Matata]

Because just like the Israel vs Palestine war—not our circus, not our monkeys! We do not have to swear allegiance to a conflict of religion!!! We did not initiate this war! We do not live there. We do not vote there.

Israel is our lone ally in a prevalently anti-US region. We should not abandon them.

 

[Matata]

Stop exaggerating the damage that was inflicted on Jewish students.

When one's history includes this it's understandable that one would get a bit twitchy about physical harassment and death threats. Give the students some grace. Generational trauma is real.

 

[missy]

You are exaggerating the damage that was inflicted on Jewish students.

Wow, no I am not.
Not at all

 

[missy]

When one's history includes this it's understandable that one would get a bit twitchy about physical harassment and death threats. Give the students some grace. Generational trauma is real.

Thank you Matata, I assure you and anyone else who questions the validity of what I wrote. The level of harassment was physical and not just emotional and it was, in a word, unacceptable

 

[missy]

Israel is our lone ally in a prevalently anti-US region. We should not abandon them.

Thank you again. You are on point

 

[MissGotRocks]

I think it is a gross generalization to think that those of us who are not kicking and screaming every day over the conflict are anti-Semitic. Or worse yet, are and are too blind to realize that we are. I think most people were sickened and saddened to see what occurred on 10/6. Our country and our tax dollars supported Israel. I also don’t believe that all Palestinians align with Hamas. To that end, many did hate seeing what happened in Gaza even though it was provoked by the Palestinians. Human suffering is just not something I relish no matter the cause.
Now our leader wants to acquire Gaza and turn it into a ‘Riviera’ - building it on land covered in blood of both sides. America is no more entitled to Gaza than it is Canada. Turns it into a grotesque money maker for lots of rich people.

I am an American and as such, I am concerned with what is happening in my own country. What is happening as a whole - and not in one individual aspect. I cast my vote accordingly. Does that mean that I don’t have feelings or opinions on what is happening in other places? No, it does not and the implication that I am too heartless or too brainless to care about others plights is just blatantly absurd.

Political discussions are emotionally charged and while permitted here to a point, it is important to be respectful and considerate of other’s points of view. Wiping everyone with the same cloth for not sharing another’s level of passion for a position needs to be reevaluated.

Lastly, how much war is enough? At what point does satisfaction or revenge become satisfied? If we could unring the bell, surely we would all do so. Continued fighting and loss of life does not avenge the initial carnage. I ask this question of myself as well as others, because I cannot yet answer it for myself. I only know that war is horrific and at some point, seems to continue on emotion rather than issue.

 

[missy]

What makes this even more frustrating is the futility of the conflict. It will not stop Islamic extremists from killing Jews and it will not stop the cultivation of more terrorists. The numbers of people in the world who hate Jews to extinction exceed the number of Jews in the world. As we've mentioned before, most if not all of those who want to exterminate the Jewish people also want to enslave/exterminate Western countries/people. So I suppose eventually another world war is coming our way one way or another, if not due to the actions of radical Islamists, then due to conflicts between eastern and western nations. And after that...more of the same as long as humans exist.

100% agree. 100%
It is disheartening

 

[missy]

I am an American and as such, I am concerned with what is happening in my own country

Same. I am an American too. My parents were born here. My grandparents were born here.

And I am super concerned with what is happening in our country now. We should all be

Israel is first but the west is next. That is clear. The enemy has said that time and time again. I believe them.
This is an attack on western civilization and our way of life
Make no mistake

Israel is our greatest ally and we are theirs. Like it or not we are entwined

Remember that quote by Neimoller?

"
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

"

I am asking all of you who are not aware of what is happening to open your eyes. We are next. That is 100% happening. I don't know where and I don't know when but mark my words. They are here already and planning.

 

[Slickk]

That’s right, @nala and we should expect newcomers to our country to assimilate and not organize and execute hate crimes against our citizens. Have you seen the protests of violent masked marauders? Despicable. These are not peaceful protests.
And no, you are very wrong about the students experiences being exaggerated. Please think of your daughter in that situation.

 

[Mreader]

Because just like the Israel vs Palestine war—not our circus, not our monkeys! We do not have to swear allegiance to a conflict of religion!!! We did not initiate this war! We do not live there. We do not vote there.
My parents are from Mexico. That does not mean that I go around expecting every American to sympathize with Mexican conflicts! That is why I am American! And believe me, we have enough to worry about here!

I do not agree with this. Israel is a Democratic (should be but the Prime Minister is making changes to that yet that is another discussion) nation that is in the middle of an Islamic one and it should be supported. I do support it unlike what Missy probably thinks but the way it is being handled is what I disagree with.

Similar to Ukraine that a lot of people are saying it’s not our conflict. But it is in the sense that if it falls then it opens the door to more invasion which would be very, very bad globally.

 

[Mreader]

@Mreader there were no indiscriminate attacks on civilians. Never. Israel always warned them to get out of the area if an attack was planned against Hamas.

This is just false. Otherwise, you think they would sit idly by and just let themselves be bombed?

 

[missy]

That’s right, @nala and we should expect newcomers to our country to assimilate and not organize and execute hate crimes against our citizens. Have you seen the protests of violent masked marauders? Despicable. These are not peaceful protests.
And no, you are very wrong about the students experiences being exaggerated. Please think of your daughter in that situation.

I have so much more to say to Nala but decided it is not worth it.
What she wrote was very disappointing but unfortunately not too surprising and if she really feels that way I am done talking to her.
I have to laugh because I actually know students on campus who told me exactly what happened and is happening and yet Nala knows best. Yeah. Anything to discredit the facts. Because it does not fit her narrative

 

[missy]

This is just false. Otherwise, you think they would sit idly by and just let themselves be bombed?

This is not false. They absolutely give warning in civilian areas.
The IDF does everything possible to limit civilian casualties in Gaza.
The IDF makes phone calls and sends text messages to civilians residing in buildings designated for attack.
The Israel Air Force has dropped leaflets over Gaza that warn civilians to avoid being present in the vicinity of Hamas operatives.
These leaflets urge civilians to move away from Hamas targets, making clear Israel’s intention to minimize civilian casualties. Since the operation began,
Hamas exploits these efforts by encouraging Palestinian civilians to ignore the IDF's warnings.

Did you hear what happened with a small Gazan child? Hamas set him up as a decoy to attract the IDF and entice them to kill the poor child. The IDF did not fall for it and they rescued him and took him to safely. That, in a nutshell, is how the IDF behaves. Ethically and morally and 100% the opposite of Hamas in every way

They NEVER deliberately kill any civilians. Unlike Hamas whose intended targets are civilians and they take great joy in murdering, raping and torturing and killing innocent civilians. That is their MO

 

[ShinyPink]

there were no indiscriminate attacks on civilians.

Jose Andres would like a word ....

 

[missy]

Jose Andres would like a word ....

Unfortunately in war mistakes happen. The IDF also mistakenly killed one of the hostages. All were terrible mistakes which are, sadly, a consequence of war. Re read what I wrote above. The IDF never deliberately kills civilians. But yes, in war unintended deaths will happen. It's a shame Hamas won't release the rest of the hostages and surrender because this could all be over. It's all so heartbreaking

 

[ShinyPink]

Back to the protest. This thread has really gone sideways.

I keep seeing a government-funded ad featuring the dog killer cabinet member saying, "Follow the law, and you’ll find opportunity. Break it, and you’ll find consequences" I have a huge problem with this given how our laws are broken every freaking day by the government, including with protesters.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Same. I am an American too. My parents were born here. My grandparents were born here.

And I am super concerned with what is happening in our country now. We should all be

Israel is first but the west is next. That is clear. The enemy has said that time and time again. I believe them.
This is an attack on western civilization and our way of life
Make no mistake

Israel is our greatest ally and we are theirs. Like it or not we are entwined

Remember that quote by Neimoller?

"
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

—Martin Niemöller

"

I am asking all of you who are not aware of what is happening to open your eyes. We are next. That is 100% happening. I don't know where and I don't know when but mark my words. They are here already and planning.

I don’t totally disagree with you. You are a very passionate person in the causes you believe in. I will admit I don’t always understand the depth of passion in all of it, but I respect your right to your beliefs and feelings. Just don’t go away thinking that the rest of us don’t care or have chosen sides for or against just to alienate others. If there was a simple solution, we could all agree. I am truly sickened by the atrocities and my heart aches for the losses and the mental anguish yet to come for so many.

 

[Matata]

This is not false. They absolutely give warning in civilian areas

Well, they sometimes gave warning right before they bombed them. There is ample evidence from Amnesty International and others that the IDF bombed areas they designated for civilians as well as "accidentally" killing journalists and World Central Kitchen staff for example in clearly marked vehicles. Too many coincidences of these types to chalk them all up to mistakes. It is what it is. War is hell.

During the first six weeks of the war in Gaza, Israel routinely used one of its biggest and most destructive bombs in areas it designated safe for civilians, according to an analysis of visual evidence by The New York Times.

The video investigation focuses on the use of 2,000-pound bombs in an area of southern Gaza where Israel had ordered civilians to move for safety. While bombs of that size are used by several Western militaries, munitions experts say they are almost never dropped by U.S. forces in densely populated areas anymore.

A Times Investigation Tracked Israel’s Use of One of Its Most Destructive Bombs in South Gaza (Published 2023)

A Times visual investigation reveals that one of Israel’s largest munitions was regularly being dropped in areas designated safe for i

www.nytimes.com

(Jerusalem, April 4, 2024) – An Israeli airstrike on a six-story apartment building sheltering hundreds of people in central Gaza on October 31, 2023, is an apparent war crime, Human Rights Watch said today. The attack, which killed at least 106 civilians, including 54 children, is among the deadliest single incidents for civilians since the Israeli government’s bombardment and ground incursion into Gaza following the Hamas-led attacks on Israel on October 7.

Human Rights Watch found no evidence of a military target in the vicinity of the building at the time of the Israeli attack, making the strike unlawfully indiscriminate under the laws of war. Israeli authorities have provided no justification for the attack. The Israeli military’s long track record of failing to credibly investigate alleged war crimes underscores the importance of the International Criminal Court (ICC)’s inquiry into serious crimes committed by all parties to the conflict.

Gaza: Israeli Strike Killing 106 Civilians an Apparent War Crime

An Israeli airstrike on a six-story apartment building sheltering hundreds of people in central Gaza on October 31, 2023, is an apparent war crime, Human Rights Watch said today. The attack, which killed at least 106 civilians, including 54 children, is among the deadliest single incidents for...

www.hrw.org

The evidence collected by Amnesty International also indicates the Israeli military failed to provide warning – at minimum to anyone living in the locations that were hit – before launching the attacks.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israelopt-israeli-air-strikes-killed-44-civilians-further-evidence-war-crimes-new-investigation-enar