Tension setting on an Octavia. what do you guys think?

[JulieN]

BTW, anyone have any details about the rough that was used for this 9.44 D IF that was set into a watch case back?

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/unique-titanium-patek-philippe-flawless-diamond-case-back-sothebys-new-york

 

[kenny]

Will this be the largest Octavia cut so far?

There was a 2.38 ct.

 

[kenny]

BTW, anyone have any details about the rough that was used for this 9.44 D IF that was set into a watch case back?

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/unique-titanium-patek-philippe-flawless-diamond-case-back-sothebys-new-york

WOW.
Astonishing project!
The GIA report says that diamond has a depth of 18.2%.
A watch back is a rare application where windowing is not just tolerated, but is essential.

I assume the rough diamond was that very flat shape called macel.
Or maybe it was the leftover piece from a 150 ct rough where the primary cut diamond was a 90 ct honker.

http://www.rockdeco.com/maccle%20page.htm



http://www.minfind.com/mineral-14752.html

 

[Karl_K]

I believe the rough weight something like 5.67ct ..the estimate weight will be in the 2.23-2.40ct range.

Wow!
5.67 ct down to 2.32 ct.
3.35 ct converted into diamond dust.
41% yeild, or 59% weight loss.

No wonder Octavias are so costly.
You could argue you are getting one diamond but paying for two.

Not really, rough is sold based on expected yield.
If it would yield a much larger stone or a same wight stone and a top with other designs then it would not be possible to cut an Octavia from it.
The majority of the rough they have been cut from have been cut from damaged octahedral crystals that had part of it broken off in extraction or recovery. The price of the rough takes that into account.
The rest have been from odd shaped crystals.

Talking about price can get me over the line on the rules so I will only say....
The cutting costs are very high on these which is a big reason for the cost. (estimated 4-5x h&a round)
Last I checked we were under the RA price which is our only direct competition.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Do you think it would be safe to set the 3 rows of facets above the setting?

It's beyond not safe.
It is simply impossible for none of the crown to be covered by some of the metal of the setting.
The diamond would just fall out if all 3 rows of crown facets were above the top of the setting.
The setting's metal must touch the diamond above AND below the girdle for it to grab and hold the diamond in place.
The metal touching only the pavilion and the girdle would not hold the diamond in place.

Thanks Kenny...I will talk to setter and see what he would recommend.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I believe the rough weight something like 5.67ct ..the estimate weight will be in the 2.23-2.40ct range.

DF, what shape was the rough?
Credit for image source: http://www.horrocksandwebb.co.uk/diamonds.asp

IIRC the shape of the rough look like #1

 

[kenny]

I believe the rough weight something like 5.67ct ..the estimate weight will be in the 2.23-2.40ct range.

DF, what shape was the rough?
Credit for image source: http://www.horrocksandwebb.co.uk/diamonds.asp

IIRC the shape of the rough look like #1

Thanks, that's what I suspected.
Of all the various shapes of rough diamonds the octahedron is the closest shape to a finished Octavia.
This must mean less waste compared to other shapes.



Karl, do you know if Yorum cuts off the tip at the table level to hopefully get a second tiny diamond out of the rough?
Or does he just use the wheel to polish the rough all the way down to the table?

 

[Karl_K]

There is no top if the rough can cut a top its too expensive to cut an Octavia from it.
Something like this is the shape of the rough most of them were cut from.
It can also be internal inclusions making the top unusable.

 

[kenny]

Something like this is the shape of the rough most of them were cut from.
It can also be internal inclusions making the top unusable.

OUCH!
Oh Noes!
All that matters is that I loved mine, but now I no longer love mine.

Seriously, I think I get it now.
The Octavia's high crown makes it an ideal match for tip-damaged octahedrons that other buyers would not see as economically viable because they can't get two diamonds out of it.

Smart!
Did you have these 'tip-challenged octahedrons' in mind when you designed the Octavia, or was this a nice surprise?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Will this be the largest Octavia cut so far?

There was a 2.38 ct.

I think it was a G VS2?

 

[Karl_K]

Smart!
Did you have these 'tip-challenged octahedrons' in mind when you designed the Octavia, or was this a nice surprise?

Yoram was the one that saw the potential for using them.
My initial design was not intended for production if you recall the creation thread.
It was designed because it was kewl!

 

[Dancing Fire]

I just check an Email from Jon. This was Yoram's comment about the rough....

It’s an almost perfect slightly curved octahedron

My estimated opinion:

Polished weight estimation: 2.34 to 2.23ct+/-

Color: 10% G - 20% H - 50% I - 20% J.

Clarity: VS++ (I can’t visualize any inclusions in its natural rough state), but as you notice in the image, it’s a bit frosty.

Positives: Blue fluorescence which has the potential for a whiter outcome.

Clarity looks loupe clean in its rough state.

 

[kenny]

DF, thanks for the pre-natal check up report.
Blue fluorescence means it's a boy.
I feel like an uncle anxious to see the baby.

I think the 2.38 was a G VS2.
Maybe you should see if Jonathan can buy it back so you can have matching Octavia earrings.

Karl, thanks to you too for the info.

 

[thecat]

This is so exciting, DF! It's worth giving up a watch for an Octavia!

 

[MT7799]

Sorry to thread jack DF, but stumbled across this video and thought of you and Kenny with the asschers and the larger size of your soon to be ring.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200304A30.html

I hope to be joining you guys with in the men's asscher ring club in the next couple years once I recoup some of my money from the upcoming wedding!! haha

 

[Lorelei]

 

[Dancing Fire]

This is an E-mail from Yoram to Jon...

It is planned and waiting to hit the wheel.

I am hoping to start the cutting within the next two weeks.

 

[m-2-b]

This is an E-mail from Yoram to Jon...

It is planned and waiting to hit the wheel.

I am hoping to start the cutting within the next two weeks.

So excited for you, DF!

 

[kenny]

You should fly to Israel to watch.

 

[Dancing Fire]

You should fly to Israel to watch.

I thought Yoram is in the U.S.?...

Q for ya Kenny...
Did you order the setting from Bruce and then send it to Jon for mounting or did Jon send the stone to Bruce for mounting?

 

[kenny]

I thought Israel.
Of course I may be wrong.

 

[Dancing Fire]

This is an E-mail from Yoram to Jon...

It is planned and waiting to hit the wheel.

I am hoping to start the cutting within the next two weeks.

So excited for you, DF!

Thanks, me too!..

 

[kenny]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

Not yet!... she may get jealous ..

Q for ya Kenny...
Did you order the setting from Bruce and then send it to Jon for mounting or did Jon send the stone to Bruce for mounting?

 

[kenny]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

Not yet!... she may get jealous ..

Q for ya Kenny...
Did you order the setting from Bruce and then send it to Jon for mounting or did Jon send the stone to Bruce for mounting?

GOG sent the Octavia to me.
I photographed the heck out of it and just enjoyed it loose for a while before shipping it to Bruce Registered Mail USPS.
Bruce set the stone.
I emailed him a copy of the lab report so he had all the dimensions and angles.
IIRC that meant he had the ring already made by the time he got the stone.

Your wife won't mind not being included on the decision?
Will you wear it on your left hand's ring finger, as a wedding ring?
On the right hand?

Do you plan to wear it all the time or just for certain times?
Does any other man you know wear a substantial diamond or other gem ring?
What do you expect the reaction of family/friends/wife will be?
Are you concerned/do you care if others don't like you wearing it?
Am I nosey, or what?

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

Not yet!... she may get jealous ..


Your wife won't mind not being included on the decision?
I don't know b/c I didn't ask her.

Will you wear it on your left hand's ring finger, as a wedding ring?
Left hand ring finger.

Do you plan to wear it all the time or just for certain times?
Every day.

Does any other man you know wear a substantial diamond or other gem ring?
No.

What do you expect the reaction of family/friends/wife will be?
Crazy dude..

Are you concerned/do you care if others don't like you wearing it?
Nope

Am I nosey, or what?
What

 

[OoohShiny]

Does any other man you know wear a substantial diamond or other gem ring?
What do you expect the reaction of family/friends/wife will be?
Are you concerned/do you care if others don't like you wearing it?

Sad to say, but these are key questions for me when I am considering the hypothetical situation of ever having enough money to afford some bling for myself!


I have a friend who is a little bit 'alternative' and he has a branded (Gucci?) ring with some small, c. 0.1ct diamonds in it, but I don't really know of any other men who have diamonds, perhaps some 'old boys' from probably the east end of London, who have those slightly knackered-looking gold rings with milky, quarter-carat stones in them, but certainly no-one I know or have seen wears a carat or more of sparkly diamonds.

I think the 'societal norm' over here is that men generally don't wear diamonds, and those that do are a bit 'effeminate'. (I say that without meaning to infer any negative connotations myself but with the knowledge that, sadly, a lot of society still has an undercurrent of either homophobia or a suspicion of those who are less than 'butch'. )

And while I do like to be a little bit different (who wants to be 'normal'?! ) something like an Octavia Asscher is so ridiculously sparkly that it will be bound to draw a lot of attention, and I am quite a shy person!

So... for me... could I deal with the attention? would it be a bit too different? I don't know. The question is generally moot anyway, seeing as it will take me years to save for one unless I win the lottery lol

 

[Karl_K]

I thought Israel.
Of course I may be wrong.

Your correct.

 

[Karl_K]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

Not yet!... she may get jealous ..

Q for ya Kenny...
Did you order the setting from Bruce and then send it to Jon for mounting or did Jon send the stone to Bruce for mounting?

I do believe that Bruce will have to mount it, that is what I would do anyway,
Which metal are you getting?

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, does your wife know?
If so, what does she say?

Not yet!... she may get jealous ..

Q for ya Kenny...
Did you order the setting from Bruce and then send it to Jon for mounting or did Jon send the stone to Bruce for mounting?

I do believe that Bruce will have to mount it, that is what I would do anyway,
Which metal are you getting?

Titanium for now (like Kenny's) just in case I'd upgrade in the future... then I'll go 18K WG or PT for the second setting.

http://www.boonerings.com/stone-settings/princess.htm