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Could my 3.02ct F VS2 diamond have been switched to a CZ?
- Thread starter Phoenix
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zhuzhu
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Autumnovember
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LGK
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Actually moissanite doesn't look that much like diamond IMO. Your pics show enough to prove it isn't moissy. Moissanite has super, super thin "arrows" (long LGFs I guess)? It is cut even different than a CZ is, and doesn't really show arrows, it's not cut that tidily- it has a very spiky/small virtual facet look. The crown is cut low and flat. The profile pic you have isn't the way a moissanite would be cut, the crown of a moissy is almost flat as a pancake from the side.
Also the double refraction makes it look even more different- it makes a sort of whirlpool like pattern in the middle of the stone. Any stone with arrows like the pics of yours couldn't be moissanite. Moissanite usually has a lot of body color too. I wear a fairly modern one as a pendant and it is about an N or P color. Older ones are a really weird greenish-brownish-yellowish hue, a kind of baby-poo like color, or snot like. Newer ones are not so greenish but still not white. I've heard some people say there's whiter ones out there but I've never seen one. Long story short- moissanite is a nice stone in and of itself (I love it for the extra dispersion as a pendant, because it still looks fiery even after spending all day getting it's pavilion grubby against my skin) but as a diamond simulant, it isn't that great an imitation. CZ is a lot more diamondy. (Also moissanite isn't terribly cheap all by itself, not like CZ is- if someone were to swap stones, it'd be a CZ I'm sure.)
Also the double refraction makes it look even more different- it makes a sort of whirlpool like pattern in the middle of the stone. Any stone with arrows like the pics of yours couldn't be moissanite. Moissanite usually has a lot of body color too. I wear a fairly modern one as a pendant and it is about an N or P color. Older ones are a really weird greenish-brownish-yellowish hue, a kind of baby-poo like color, or snot like. Newer ones are not so greenish but still not white. I've heard some people say there's whiter ones out there but I've never seen one. Long story short- moissanite is a nice stone in and of itself (I love it for the extra dispersion as a pendant, because it still looks fiery even after spending all day getting it's pavilion grubby against my skin) but as a diamond simulant, it isn't that great an imitation. CZ is a lot more diamondy. (Also moissanite isn't terribly cheap all by itself, not like CZ is- if someone were to swap stones, it'd be a CZ I'm sure.)
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clgwli
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+1 The other thing I have noticed in Moissanites is that they have funky white kind of inclusions in them. Most aren''t clean like CZs are. So unless you have a VVS stone or higher I am sure that with a loupe you can see a diamond from a CZ just from inclusions. Moissanites are usually parallel and in small groups. The double refraction is a huge give away IMO too. These are all things to use a loupe on to see.
I don''t really like the way moissanites look so I haven''t bought one. Here''s a site that shows off what has been said http://www.moissanite.com/trade/methods_of_identifying.cfm
Moissanites aren''t bad, but not for everyone. Like LittleGreyKitten said, they aren''t cheap either like CZs.
Personally I would just take your stone to someone who can use a diamond tester. I took a diamond I bought used to a jeweler who could see through a loupe that it wasn''t moissanite and she even guessed it was not CZ that way. The tester proved it to be diamond.
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You can either use the info@ email on the CraftedByInfinity site or look me up on FB. You'll like my friend - she is affiliated with a great independent lab and is a wonderful human being in-general.
As for why cut-quality awareness is greater in China: Their diamond-engagement tradition is young, with the most explosive growth happening over the last decade, so trade and consumers in China have never really known a time where cut quality was not an integral part of the "C" equation. But in the USA and Europe diamonds were sold for decades with no cut grade whatsoever. In 1996 a little lab called AGSL started emphasizing cut quality - to an arguably niche market segment - and in 2006 GIA influenced the whole industry when they introduced their cut grade. So, while China's tradition is young, cut awareness has only come lately to US and Europe traditions... The US engagement tradition became a staple in the 1950s - after the NW Ayers/DeBeers campaign caught fire - meaning there was a 50-year span where most pros and consumers had (or still have) little or no awareness of cut beyond polish & symmetry. Numerous jewelers in this country are still not versed in modern cut education.
When visiting stores in Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong last year I found the positioning of cut quality very interesting. For better or worse the "H&A" term is used much like "ideal" in the states, to imply cut quality. Prominent chains such as Chow Sang Sang have entire counter-displays full of "normal" H&A cuts - offered in the same way upscale US stores might offer GIA or EGL as second-options behind a branded line such as HOF. In addition to generic "H&As" the Chinese stores may feature a higher-end branded line; cut to more exacting parameters (for Chow Sang Sang this is the "Love" brand). But cut pedigree in China may still be positioned just as strongly as color or clarity even among secondary options - though the positioning may be more precision-based than performance-based. This is logically due to what "H&A" implies - and like the term "ideal" in US markets, the veracity/quality of the term "H&A" depends on who is using that term.
zhuzhu
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John,
In Asia and a large part of Europe, diamond engagement ring has not been really a tradition. In the fast changing place like China, I can see how younger generations are "catching up" to this American standard as they view having a diamond ring as a symbol of social status.
I am interested in your prediction as to how long will it take until this trend become so prevalent in China that China eventually took over as the biggest consumer of the diamond business?
I also want to add that it is not unreasonable for Phonex to worry about the fakes in Asia. I have purchased a few pieces of "solid 14K jewelry" from China suppliers in EBay, and each and every one of them were tested as base metal coated by "rhodium looking thing". Base on the marking alone you will never guess they were fakes.
Diamond buyers in China, be VERY CAREFUL.
Zhu
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Your questions are on-point. I have written two articles on this subject, published in IDEX Magazine in Nov & Dec.
I gave Pricescope permission to publish those pieces here, but they''re waiting until PS 2.0 is online to do this. I have a third article (pictorial) I''m preparing with images of beautiful jewelry/carvings native to China - but the IDEX articles address the question you''re asking.
Short excerpt: With declines in major markets such as the U.S., Europe and Japan due to the economic downturn China, along with India, are the only markets worldwide to maintain growth in diamond sales in recent years. Sun Wensheng, chairman of the Gems & Jewelry Trade Association of China, reported gross sales increasing by over 10 percent last year, reaching 180 billion Yuan ($24 billion). Experts at the 2009 Shanghai Show predicted that China’s jewelry industry should expect annual sales of 300 billion Yuan ($39 billion) and exports of over $12 billion by 2020. China is currently the world’s largest consumer of platinum, the second largest consumer of diamonds and the third largest consumer of gold. As the diamond engagement tradition continues to gain momentum some experts say the predictions above may be conservative.
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The Commnies and the cultural revolution in the 1960's - mid 70's really attacked established old cultures, art works, religiions, wealth etc. But with Deng Xiao Ping coming into power in 1979 and the 80's, China has seen a massive reversal of its fortune. Since 2000, it's REALLY EXPLODED - China has reformed its econmoy, joined the WTO and really opened up itself to foreign investments and continues to develop as the world factory. Mind you, Shanghai was already the Paris of the East in the 30's - even when Hong Kong was still underdeveloped - and luxuries were already popular amongst the upper-class Shanghainese then. So it is not surprising to see Chinese people developing an appetite for luxuries goods these days.
Of course there is the issue of segmentation in China, meaning there are still very poor people, markedly in other parts of China. Nonetheless, it's a HUGE economy and you don't hear of mass hunger in China (the Chinese govt has made HUGE progress in lifting its population above the poverty line - essentially they've brought 200 million people out of the poverty line since the reforms). In the last 10 years or so, salaries in China have moved into international territory for certain professionals - salaries of certain professionals here are comparable, and some cases even higher than those in some countries in the West, because of the increased demand for their skillsets. And of course, the recent property boom, particularly in Shanghai and Beijing, has turned some ordinary Chinese folks into gazillionaires, with more money than they know what to do with!
I'm sure you're 100% right there's an increasing demand amongst Chinese consumers for more precision-cut diamonds. I guess also with increasing wealth, more and more people are jonesing for "THE BEST" cut because they can afford it and it's also a social status issue, I suspect. However, you're also right that this doesn't mean that your average Chinese consumer can distinguish a not-so-good GIA triple Excellent stone from the real McCoy. I do know that in Hong Kong, many vendors are selling triple Excellent stones and as long as a stone is designated a Triple Ex, an average buyer will happily buy it without needing to know much about the crown, pavillion angles etc. I hear that AGS is still not very popular here but I hope that it will be.
Thank you so much for offering to put me in touch with your friend - that's very kind of you. I'll email you offline.
Cehrabehra
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Actually, lots of diamonds in SG are not well cut. There's one store that sells AGS ideal cut diamonds, but there's HUGE price premium to go with.
I hear that more and more people in SG are turning into the internet, although I suspect they're still in the minority. Some ex-colleagues of mine have bought from BN, and if you read the blog on BGD you'll see there are some buyers from SG.
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Cehrabehra
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stone-cold11
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Only their Diamond Report Dossier report type is always laser inscribed, those without the inclusion plot. The Diamond Grading Report report has an inclusion plot, usually for larger stones, but the vendor can request for a inscription with an extra fee. So logically, you could send it bak to GIA for a regrading/verification and ask for the inscription.
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Thank you, that is good to know.
Do you happen to know if I can take my diamond to GIA myself for this purpose (either walk-in but I suspect more likely by appointment)? I may be in NY this summer or if not, then next summer. I am reluctant to send the diamond all the way to the US and back - it''s just too risky, plus I don''t think I could secure insurance for this purpose.
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Understandable. Many of the big locals on the mainland aren''t specializing in top cut yet but as luxury-spending increases they will need to: Chinese consumers are increasingly gaining access to the internet, and doing more research there (sound familiar?) which brings more cut focus. I sat with owners of two of the more popular online companies - 9Diamond.com and Zbird.com - after speaking at a seminar in Shanghai last year. They both offer triple ex, H&A and modified rounds cut to triple ex online (but the online sales model there is different than online sales here).
You''re right about HK. A number of outfits are based there but they also have stores in mainland cities. In addition to Chow Sang Sang mentioned above you might look for TSL, CHJ Jewelry, MaBelle or Chow Tai Fook. In addition to triple ex (the increasingly-known standard) a good number of companies opt to offer H&A diamonds without branding their stones.
Amethyste
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You are not kidding Phoenix. "Exploded" is the word I'd use too.
Here is more information that I included in the IDEX articles: About 264,000,000 people are using the Internet in China. The total population of the US is 304,000,000 - so if we presume 90 percent of the US can access the Internet it means we’re about even; with the US nearly reaching saturation. But more than 1 billion people in China don't have access... If the economy there continues its current momentum the number of Chinese coming online and influencing global e-commerce could wind up doubling or tripling the US population.
More: In 2005 the US Census Bureau reported that 25 percent of all US households made $75,000 or more. The number of comparable households in China in 2009 was about 3 percent. But with 1.3 billion people in China that must be multiplied by a factor of four to compare with the US. Simply put, when only 6 percent of Chinese households earn $75K-or-more China will equal the US in terms of luxury spending power at a certain basic level. At 12 percent China will double the US in that ability.
Regarding your last paragraph - just so. The buzz words are out there but the average consumer's understanding of the implications lags behind. I think the internet is helping them play catch-up, just as it does here... There are a staggering number of websites in Mandarin (and Cantonese). I wonder about how good the information is and suspect, like the west, there are good and bad sources. There also seem to be many discussion boards but nothing quite like Pricescope.
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Engagement Ring Trends 2025: Styles Set to Shine
Engagement Ring Trends 2025: Styles Set to Shine - 01/15
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