Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS pls!

[zipzapgirl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Part of me wonders if it would be easier for both of us, our families, friends, etc. if I made this more about the kids issue than anything else. That is something we would just flat out disagree on, nothing to discuss, sad sad, cry cry, we have to move on. I think if I make it about all of these other issues in addition to the kids one (when honestly the kids one would 'take care of it'), I think it hurts our chances to remain cordial, friendly, etc. in the future. I'm typically in the camp of not burning bridges if I can help it and feel like while this is one of the issues and I think it's enough in terms of grounds for breaking up, I sort of feel like it's taking the easy way out I guess??

From someone who's been there, I wouldn't worry so much about how your friends and family will react and what bridges you might burn. Definitely don't do anything foolhardy like cheat or badmouth him to his friends, but you are under no obligation to make things easier on everyone else. Your first priority needs to be coming out of this situation being a person who is true to themselves and fighting for what she needs. I understand the desire to avoid questions, but I think an honest answer about "We discovered that we had a lot of differences in opinion about money, the future, the way we wanted to live our lives..." You don't have to paint yourself in a corner about the children issue because it will make it easier for other people to accept. Your friends and family already have their own opinions about your relationship and often they will have noticed a lot more than you think they have.

If I were you, I would try to develop a backup plan for a place to stay if you need one. Things might get ugly and it's better to have the possibility of sleeping on someone else's couch if things get too unbearable at home. I think its highly doubtful that you will terminate the lease and move out on the 30th in 2 different moving vans and just go your own way. These things usually come to a head unexpectedly and become too hard to maintain as an uneasy status quo. Go easy on your own heart and don't despair if you find out you can't handle living there anymore.

Hang in there and try to be true to youself and fair to him in the process.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Part of me wonders if it would be easier for both of us, our families, friends, etc. if I made this more about the kids issue than anything else. That is something we would just flat out disagree on, nothing to discuss, sad sad, cry cry, we have to move on. I think if I make it about all of these other issues in addition to the kids one (when honestly the kids one would 'take care of it'), I think it hurts our chances to remain cordial, friendly, etc. in the future. I'm typically in the camp of not burning bridges if I can help it and feel like while this is one of the issues and I think it's enough in terms of grounds for breaking up, I sort of feel like it's taking the easy way out I guess??

From someone who's been there, I wouldn't worry so much about how your friends and family will react and what bridges you might burn. Definitely don't do anything foolhardy like cheat or badmouth him to his friends, but you are under no obligation to make things easier on everyone else. Your first priority needs to be coming out of this situation being a person who is true to themselves and fighting for what she needs. I understand the desire to avoid questions, but I think an honest answer about "We discovered that we had a lot of differences in opinion about money, the future, the way we wanted to live our lives..." You don't have to paint yourself in a corner about the children issue because it will make it easier for other people to accept. Your friends and family already have their own opinions about your relationship and often they will have noticed a lot more than you think they have.

If I were you, I would try to develop a backup plan for a place to stay if you need one. Things might get ugly and it's better to have the possibility of sleeping on someone else's couch if things get too unbearable at home. I think its highly doubtful that you will terminate the lease and move out on the 30th in 2 different moving vans and just go your own way. These things usually come to a head unexpectedly and become too hard to maintain as an uneasy status quo. Go easy on your own heart and don't despair if you find out you can't handle living there anymore.

Hang in there and try to be true to youself and fair to him in the process.

I'm not worried about what friends/family will think, but I would like us (if we do end it) be able to remain cordial. It's been a long time and I'm close with several members of his family and he's close with some of mine. I just don't want it to end kicking and screaming and never see each other again ever. Like I've said before, if we do break up it's not going to be because either of us necessarily did anything wrong, it'll be because we both moved in together before we were emotionally ready to do so, we've come to learn over the last few months/years that we do have strong differences of opinion on how we see our individual futures, etc. It will not be because someone cheated or because we don't love each other.

There are definitely places I could stay if I needed to, I have friends couches and/or some coworkers that are kind of like best friends/mom figures that would be happy to have me if I needed somewhere to stay. I hope that we can be cordial enough to get by. At the moment the only thing I've decided for myself is that we need to live apart. I'm hoping that since I'm not instigating a break up right now and just a 'we need to take a step back', that we can live together in peace over the next few weeks/months and be adult, marture, and responsible about this being a necessary step in either the success (or not) of our relationship.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Your comment about having to buy all household items gave me an idea. But it involves you being really strong, which, based on your posts, I think you can do.

Tell him your goal is to have $xxxx in savings by whatever date. This is more fun if it isn't a formal conversation, especially since he's made it clear he isn't interested in talking about budgets. Say you have examined your budget and determined areas where you can cut back. He probably won't ask any questions. If he does, say you are going to cut back on general household expenses.

Now, next time you go to the store, buy your stuff. For you. He's a grown man, you don't need to buy his soap. You don't need to buy his food. You're not his mother or his wife.

Eventually, he'll catch on and ask you what's going on. Remind him of your goal. Remind him of HIS desire to keep things separate. If he doesn't want to act like a team, it's none of his damn business what you do with your money. He wants to be financially independent from you, so you need to be independent from him.

And, this isn't meant to be at all mean, why would he have any incentive to change the status quo? He basically has a woman doing all of her "wifely duties" with absolutely no cost to him. He gets to play around with his hobbies and you have to absorb all of the adult costs. Seriously, the more I think about it, you are acting as his mother. He needs to grow up, and he won't do it with you around.

I think this is a great idea.

Me too. Your guy is only 24, and probably still wants to play. I always say, guys shouldn't marry till they're 30+, so that they can have time to grow up. Girls are more advanced, and by 24 could easily marry and have kids. Guys mature slower. You need to either switch to someone who is at your time in life, or just relax & start putting yourself first, he does, and look how well it works for him right now. He's got a mom and maid. (like stated above, STOP doing his stuff and buying his things!!! You are mothering him, and I read once that guys don't marry their mothers, they just depend on them to take care of them, while they continue to do what they want.) Maybe the men in his family just don't make good husbands. His dad has been divorced. It's also like the "Self Fulfilling Prophecy", he thinks you are going to leave eventually, so he acts accordingly, and his actions make it intolerable for anyone to stay, so you leave, and then he says "See, I knew you'd leave me!" If you are not ready to go, at least take the above advice from amc80. That way, you won't be doing all the work and you'll have more money. win, win! It's hard to re-direct a passive non contributor. They really aren't doing anything really wrong, they just aren't doing ANYTHING! And I am sure he would tell you, "If you didn't want to do all that stuff, then why'd you do it?" Ungrateful sounding, YES, incorrect, NO. I bet he wouldn't do things he would feel bitter about doing later. You have to fight fire, with fire. Just take care of you! It doesn't make you selfish, just a worthy opponent. He'll fight it at first, because in the past it was easier for you to cave, but stand firm. Once he figures out your not budging, he will be initiating "the I'm not happy, talk" You will have much more bargaining power, when HE is uncomfortable, and wants the change. You are not alone in your actions, most of your basic problems stem from "the classic, relationship, imbalance of power". (I bet you are the one who loves more, the one who loves less has the power). Whether or not you work out the other issues, or leave, this will be a great life's lesson ,that teaches you invaluable skills, for you to take wherever you go. Stay strong, and hang in there!

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Your comment about having to buy all household items gave me an idea. But it involves you being really strong, which, based on your posts, I think you can do.

Tell him your goal is to have $xxxx in savings by whatever date. This is more fun if it isn't a formal conversation, especially since he's made it clear he isn't interested in talking about budgets. Say you have examined your budget and determined areas where you can cut back. He probably won't ask any questions. If he does, say you are going to cut back on general household expenses.

Now, next time you go to the store, buy your stuff. For you. He's a grown man, you don't need to buy his soap. You don't need to buy his food. You're not his mother or his wife.

Eventually, he'll catch on and ask you what's going on. Remind him of your goal. Remind him of HIS desire to keep things separate. If he doesn't want to act like a team, it's none of his damn business what you do with your money. He wants to be financially independent from you, so you need to be independent from him.

And, this isn't meant to be at all mean, why would he have any incentive to change the status quo? He basically has a woman doing all of her "wifely duties" with absolutely no cost to him. He gets to play around with his hobbies and you have to absorb all of the adult costs. Seriously, the more I think about it, you are acting as his mother. He needs to grow up, and he won't do it with you around.

I think this is a great idea.

Me too. Your guy is only 24, and probably still wants to play. I always say, guys shouldn't marry till they're 30+, so that they can have time to grow up. Girls are more advanced, and by 24 could easily marry and have kids. Guys mature slower. You need to either switch to someone who is at your time in life, or just relax & start putting yourself first, he does, and look how well it works for him right now. He's got a mom and maid. (like stated above, STOP doing his stuff and buying his things!!! You are mothering him, and I read once that guys don't marry their mothers, they just depend on them to take care of them, while they continue to do what they want.) Maybe the men in his family just don't make good husbands. His dad has been divorced. It's also like the "Self Fulfilling Prophecy", he thinks you are going to leave eventually, so he acts accordingly, and his actions make it intolerable for anyone to stay, so you leave, and then he says "See, I knew you'd leave me!" If you are not ready to go, at least take the above advice from amc80. That way, you won't be doing all the work and you'll have more money. win, win! It's hard to re-direct a passive non contributor. They really aren't doing anything really wrong, they just aren't doing ANYTHING! And I am sure he would tell you, "If you didn't want to do all that stuff, then why'd you do it?" Ungrateful sounding, YES, incorrect, NO. I bet he wouldn't do things he would feel bitter about doing later. You have to fight fire, with fire. Just take care of you! It doesn't make you selfish, just a worthy opponent. He'll fight it at first, because in the past it was easier for you to cave, but stand firm. Once he figures out your not budging, he will be initiating "the I'm not happy, talk" You will have much more bargaining power, when HE is uncomfortable, and wants the change. You are not alone in your actions, most of your basic problems stem from "the classic, relationship, imbalance of power". (I bet you are the one who loves more, the one who loves less has the power). Whether or not you work out the other issues, or leave, this will be a great life's lesson ,that teaches you invaluable skills, for you to take wherever you go. Stay strong, and hang in there!

He does still want to play. I don't think he'll be ready to broach the topic of marriage (seriously with a firm timeline) until he's at least close to 30. I don't have a problem with that. The problem I am having is being stuck between not being fully committed, but being more committed than being independent from each other. Since it's going to be a long time before we get married (if we ever do), I think we need to take a step back and live apart. This will give us both some independence back while we figure out if we're right for each other and take off a lot of pressure. I (not really intentionally) feel like if we're serious/committed, we need to be fully committed. I am ready for this type of commitment, he is not. Since he is not, living apart and regaining my own independence until he is ready feels like the only option for us to have a chance at making this work. It may still tear us apart and we may find that without the pressure of a shared household, we are happier being apart, I just don't know. His dad has been divorced, three times in fact, and they all took him to the cleaners. And your'e right, he's not really doing anything inherently wrong, he's just not doing anything, and at this age not being ready, he has the right. But I need the same right, I need to be nonchalant, carefree, making decisions for me and not us, just like him. You're also right that we do have an imbalance of power. I do love more. Thanks for the support.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

It sounds like you are on a good path. I didn't live with my husband until we were married. Believe me, you will love not doing his laundry, and getting to send him home if he's not being up to par. As long as you are dating and not married, take full advantage of the fun part of being in relationship limbo (dating exclusively, but not engaged or married). You can fill your house with things only you love! Go get your new bedspread!!! No matter what, you need to surround yourself with people and stuff that bring you up! If he never steps up, then you will already be prepared for life on your own, financially and emotionally. I would live in my car before I would live unhappily with someone else, so don't shoot for the moon, just look for a small bachelor apt or guest house. Sleep on a friends couch for a month while saving up. (after you've saved up, I would suggest getting a place alone so that you don't compound your problems by having to deal with roommates right now) You'll cry at first, when you move out, but when you get to know you and how strong you are, and get into a new routine, you will be laughing again.
Oh, and by the way, nonchalant, care free, independent woman are VERY attractive to men. So, YOU GO GIRL!!!

 

[marymm]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I don't want to put a damper on your hopes that things stay cordial between you two after you talk with him about living apart but staying together, but based on his response after your last talk, when he was withholding affection and "I love you's" for several days -- he may well respond even worse to the next talk and things could be quite uncomfortable.

In a way, you are changing the power dynamics in the relationship by asserting yourself, 1st the talk a few weeks ago, and now the upcoming talk where you tell him you want to live apart -- he may take it as a form of rejection and then react out of defensiveness -- not only is he not as mature as you are, this whole living apart idea will probably be a shock to him and will likely be perceived as a step-back and a step away from him. So I'm with the others who have suggested, go ahead and hope that he will be receptive and mature about things, but do be prepared that things may be sticky between you -- it will probably take him time before he can get a handle on the new status quo, and it's possible he may not want to go along with the new program at all.

It is good to see how strong and self-aware you are being - I hope things go well for you.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

It sounds like you are on a good path. I didn't live with my husband until we were married. Believe me, you will love not doing his laundry, and getting to send him home if he's not being up to par. As long as you are dating and not married, take full advantage of the fun part of being in relationship limbo (dating exclusively, but not engaged or married). You can fill your house with things only you love! Go get your new bedspread!!! No matter what, you need to surround yourself with people and stuff that bring you up! If he never steps up, then you will already be prepared for life on your own, financially and emotionally. I would live in my car before I would live unhappily with someone else, so don't shoot for the moon, just look for a small bachelor apt or guest house. Sleep on a friends couch for a month while saving up. (after you've saved up, I would suggest getting a place alone so that you don't compound your problems by having to deal with roommates right now) You'll cry at first, when you move out, but when you get to know you and how strong you are, and get into a new routine, you will be laughing again.
Oh, and by the way, nonchalant, care free, independent woman are VERY attractive to men. So, YOU GO GIRL!!!

I'm certainly doing the best I can. It will be nice not to have to worry about his needs all the time for awhile.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I don't want to put a damper on your hopes that things stay cordial between you two after you talk with him about living apart but staying together, but based on his response after your last talk, when he was withholding affection and "I love you's" for several days -- he may well respond even worse to the next talk and things could be quite uncomfortable.

In a way, you are changing the power dynamics in the relationship by asserting yourself, 1st the talk a few weeks ago, and now the upcoming talk where you tell him you want to live apart -- he may take it as a form of rejection and then react out of defensiveness -- not only is he not as mature as you are, this whole living apart idea will probably be a shock to him and will likely be perceived as a step-back and a step away from him. So I'm with the others who have suggested, go ahead and hope that he will be receptive and mature about things, but do be prepared that things may be sticky between you -- it will probably take him time before he can get a handle on the new status quo, and it's possible he may not want to go along with the new program at all.

It is good to see how strong and self-aware you are being - I hope things go well for you.

I know, I'm very worried how things will go when I tell him we need to live apart next year. This will definitely be a power change as I've never really asserted myself in this relationship the way I do in all other aspects of my life. I'm going to try and just be as nice (but firm) and honest as possible in saying more or less that it's not up for discussion and that this is what I need in order to feel right about our relationship again. I hope he does perceive it as a step back, because that's what it really is. I don't see it as a bad thing, I see it as stepping back until he's ready to be on the same page as I am (if he ever gets to that point). I hope he's rational enough to see that I'm not doing this to hurt him or us, I'm doing this because if I don't, there won't be an us to fight for. I can't deal with the resentment I feel towards him for not being in the same place I am mentally. Living apart will give me the independence from him I need to feel to be in the place he is right now. Thanks for the support. I'll keep everyone posted.

Any advice on when I should talk to him about living apart next year? On the one hand, I don't want things to be sticky/uncomfortable for longer than necessary if it does go awry, but on the other hand I don't want either of us to have too little time to make other arrangements. We have to notify the office about our non renewal decision by May 1 and move out will be by June 30. I'm thinking maybe the beginning of April? That way we each of 3 months to find other housing (I'll be living alone since that's what I want, but I presume he'd prefer to live with a roommate in order to not be alone and save money so he can have more to spend on his hobbies) so this will give him more time to find someone to share with? Any tips?

 

[katamari]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Advicepls, I am glad to see the turn this thread has taken. I am proud of you for the realizations you have made.

I also want to encourage you to be ready, emotionally, for the relationship to end when you talk to him about living separately. He already doesn't see you as a partner. You are also seeing flaws in your relationship and beginning to think about it like it may not be a part of your future. You are, though, still teetering back and forth between talking about keeping the relationship going as a favor to him (it is not fair just to end it) and as something you want (being more committed than being independent from one another). I think it is best to decide which you actually think before you talk to him. It will only send him mixed messages (to you and him) if you intent isn't clear.

I get trying to work it out, I really do. But, it is a lot of work--something he has been unwilling to put into your relationship. His antics (re: the dishes, sulking, attacking) also does not suggest he is committed to working on the issues in this relationship. It will be easier for you both to just break up. That doesn't mean you have you, but it will be easiest. You have to be prepared for him to want to take that path.

If you really want to use this time living separately as an opportunity to build your relationship, I think it is best to have a concrete, operable plan for how that would work for you and how you will know he deserves you back. (For instance, realize that splitting households means that there is no feasible way you can know if he is ready to share finances or housework responsibly, for instance. This is something you can discuss and come to conclusions about, but cannot actually practice until you move back in with one another). Will you seek counseling? If so, how often? Will you date? If so, how frequently? Whose responsibility will it be to plan the dates? To pay for them? Will you be exclusive? What is(are) the goal(s) of being apart? How will you both assess whether the(se) goal(s) have been achieved? How long is the separation? What happens to the pets? . . . The terms of the relationship are changing so, to be fair, and most importantly to know whether or not things have changed that warrant getting back together, you must have a plan based on actions and measurable changes, not feelings and emotions. I think your current timeline is fair. It should also go without saying that you should not back down under any circumstance.

Also, realize you do not really need to maintain relationships with his friends and family. Again, I understand why you would want to. However, what good would it really serve you, a year after you broke up, to be friends with his family? None. Your and his relationship is what brings your and his families/friends together. You will not see his aunts and cousins, as an example, socially after you split. Be polite if you ever cross paths in public, but don't worry about it. As zipzapgirl said, you don't need to go making enemies. But, don't think you have any responsibility to be anything more than cordial to the people that would otherwise be out of your life without him in it.

Best of luck to you!

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Ditto kata....

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Advicepls, I am glad to see the turn this thread has taken. I am proud of you for the realizations you have made.

I also want to encourage you to be ready, emotionally, for the relationship to end when you talk to him about living separately. He already doesn't see you as a partner. You are also seeing flaws in your relationship and beginning to think about it like it may not be a part of your future. You are, though, still teetering back and forth between talking about keeping the relationship going as a favor to him (it is not fair just to end it) and as something you want (being more committed than being independent from one another). I think it is best to decide which you actually think before you talk to him. It will only send him mixed messages (to you and him) if you intent isn't clear.

I get trying to work it out, I really do. But, it is a lot of work--something he has been unwilling to put into your relationship. His antics (re: the dishes, sulking, attacking) also does not suggest he is committed to working on the issues in this relationship. It will be easier for you both to just break up. That doesn't mean you have you, but it will be easiest. You have to be prepared for him to want to take that path.

If you really want to use this time living separately as an opportunity to build your relationship, I think it is best to have a concrete, operable plan for how that would work for you and how you will know he deserves you back. (For instance, realize that splitting households means that there is no feasible way you can know if he is ready to share finances or housework responsibly, for instance. This is something you can discuss and come to conclusions about, but cannot actually practice until you move back in with one another). Will you seek counseling? If so, how often? Will you date? If so, how frequently? Whose responsibility will it be to plan the dates? To pay for them? Will you be exclusive? What is(are) the goal(s) of being apart? How will you both assess whether the(se) goal(s) have been achieved? How long is the separation? What happens to the pets? . . . The terms of the relationship are changing so, to be fair, and most importantly to know whether or not things have changed that warrant getting back together, you must have a plan based on actions and measurable changes, not feelings and emotions. I think your current timeline is fair. It should also go without saying that you should not back down under any circumstance.

Also, realize you do not really need to maintain relationships with his friends and family. Again, I understand why you would want to. However, what good would it really serve you, a year after you broke up, to be friends with his family? None. Your and his relationship is what brings your and his families/friends together. You will not see his aunts and cousins, as an example, socially after you split. Be polite if you ever cross paths in public, but don't worry about it. As zipzapgirl said, you don't need to go making enemies. But, don't think you have any responsibility to be anything more than cordial to the people that would otherwise be out of your life without him in it.

Best of luck to you!

Hi katamari (and Freke)– thanks for the tips. In my mind, I know that this talk could totally destroy us, but if he’s going to let me needing to take a step back in order to (maybe) eventually move forward again as a bad thing, it wasn’t worth saving to begin with. He’s either going to a) be hurt, but understand and be willing to figure out some goals and new terms together or b) he’s going to be resentful, hurt, mad, not see the point, etc and likely want out. I do not want to save this relationship as a favor to him, I want to save this relationship because overall we really are great together, and he really is a great man. I do think he is a great man who is young, immature, and not ready for this which is making his actions less than desirable. I’m hoping (but not counting on) this being a serious wake-up call that if he does want me to remain in his life, he needs to step it up and act like a mature, responsible adult. If he can’t handle that, we’re not going to work out anyway. I’ll have to practice my speech so that I my intent sounds perfectly clear.

Living apart for me is what you say, an opportunity to build on our relationship. The part I’m not sure about is the concrete operable plan. My personal goals for me during this time would be to learn to put myself first again (ie: meet my budget and savings goals each month, work out more, spend more time with my friends and reflect and really decide how I feel about wanting children in my future.) I really feel my decisions (about money, kids, the works) are being swayed by what’s best for *us* instead of what’s best for *me*, and since he’s not ready to make *his* personal decisions for *us*, I need to do the same. If it turns out that what we want is the same and we grow up and grow together, great, but if not, at least I’m on my way to completing my goals. On the relationship side at this point all I want is some distance. I want to feel okay about being a little bit selfish (much like he’s doing) because at this age when both of us aren’t ready to be fully committed, him not being there at all and me being partially there is making me feel resentful. I want to remove the part that is making me feel resentful and remove the pressure that is stressing him out so we can take a look at whether or not we’re actually happy together at the stage we’re at now. Marriage wasn’t something we were talking about for another 3-5 years anyway with our school timelines so I think living together is causing undue pressure where none is needed right now. I’ll have to think through your questions in a more detailed manor because they all raise good points. For me, if we decide to stay together while living apart, in my mind we would remain exclusive. As far as the rest of it, I’ll have to give that a lot of thought.

I know it’s not necessary to remain close with his family. His friends are little be different story because at this point they are as much my friends as his. I hang out with several of them on as much of a regular basis (even without him) as he does. My last long term relationship ended I was almost as upset about losing family than I was the guy, but I got over it. I know this would be the same, it’s just hard to think about when I feel a familial bond with them and they haven’t done anything warranting not talking anymore.

Thanks again!

 

[pancake]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I think a lot of people have given you very sound advice in this thread, advicepls - but I also just wanted to say that you seem to be admirably clear-minded, considered and mature about this. I imagine that must be very difficult given all the emotions and history at play here, so I just wanted to say that I think you sound amazing and that I'm barracking for things to work out for the best for you - regardless of what the outcome is.

 

[princesss]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Gah. The family thing is so hard, isn't it? When you've spent so much time bonding with them and really have felt like part of the family, it's hard to let that go.

I was thinking of you this weekend - my ex turned up at a party I was at on Friday and we had a heart-to-heart about the family issue. When we broke up, he'd asked me not to contact them because it'd be too hard for him. Well, then his dad had some serious health problems and while M would keep me updated, I still tried to respect him and give them distance. But he found out last week that it really hurt his dad not to hear from me, so he told me to write his dad if I felt like it. The letter went in the mail this morning. I *really* miss his family - it's hard to lose your boyfriend, your best friend, and people that have become your extended family all in one fell swoop, especially when you don't feel like he's a bad guy. But at the same time, holding onto those relationships too tightly keeps you from moving on to some degree, because you're trying to keep yourself in a situation that just doesn't fit anymore. I'm not their son's GF anymore, I'm not their potential DIL, but I would like to be able to have coffee with them if I'm ever in town and catch up, you know? But I've had the last almost 7 months to separate myself emotionally, and to accept that if we ever have a relationship from this point on, it will be *very* different.

Don't be surprised if your friendships change, too. I have friends that I met because of my ex, and with whom I hung out separate from my ex, but when we broke up those friendships kind of dried up. A lot of the time people invest in a relationship because they think you'll be around for the long haul as their friend's SO, but when that changes, the friendships can change, too. Not saying it absolutely will happen, but prepare yourself for the possibility.

*big hugs*

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I think a lot of people have given you very sound advice in this thread, advicepls - but I also just wanted to say that you seem to be admirably clear-minded, considered and mature about this. I imagine that must be very difficult given all the emotions and history at play here, so I just wanted to say that I think you sound amazing and that I'm barracking for things to work out for the best for you - regardless of what the outcome is.

Thank you, that means a lot. I'm really trying to be rational and not let my emotions get the best of me. It is very difficult, the emotions, our history, what I thought would be our future, it's really really tough. Things will work out for the best whether that means fixing what's wrong or walking away....either way, it's going to be a long, hard road. Thanks for the support!

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Gah. The family thing is so hard, isn't it? When you've spent so much time bonding with them and really have felt like part of the family, it's hard to let that go.

I was thinking of you this weekend - my ex turned up at a party I was at on Friday and we had a heart-to-heart about the family issue. When we broke up, he'd asked me not to contact them because it'd be too hard for him. Well, then his dad had some serious health problems and while M would keep me updated, I still tried to respect him and give them distance. But he found out last week that it really hurt his dad not to hear from me, so he told me to write his dad if I felt like it. The letter went in the mail this morning. I *really* miss his family - it's hard to lose your boyfriend, your best friend, and people that have become your extended family all in one fell swoop, especially when you don't feel like he's a bad guy. But at the same time, holding onto those relationships too tightly keeps you from moving on to some degree, because you're trying to keep yourself in a situation that just doesn't fit anymore. I'm not their son's GF anymore, I'm not their potential DIL, but I would like to be able to have coffee with them if I'm ever in town and catch up, you know? But I've had the last almost 7 months to separate myself emotionally, and to accept that if we ever have a relationship from this point on, it will be *very* different.

Don't be surprised if your friendships change, too. I have friends that I met because of my ex, and with whom I hung out separate from my ex, but when we broke up those friendships kind of dried up. A lot of the time people invest in a relationship because they think you'll be around for the long haul as their friend's SO, but when that changes, the friendships can change, too. Not saying it absolutely will happen, but prepare yourself for the possibility.

*big hugs*

The family thing really is difficult. I'm not close to most of my family so I have spent every last holiday with these people as *my* family for the last 6 cycles of Thanksgivings, Christmases, New Years, etc. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm not sure how BF would feel about it. The only people in my family he really has any relationship with our my sisters, but he never ever saw them without me being there in some sense. I've spent the weekend (without BF) with his Dad/Dad's current GF at his weekend property, I've spend many nights hanging out with his mom doing movies, games, etc. His Mom has told me for years that if we were ever to break up that I was not to cut her out of my life and that just because we broke up (she said probably at my son's fault! ) did that mean we couldn't maintain a relationship. To some extent, I agree, but on the other hand, I don't want BF to be uncomfortable, I don't want future GFs of his to be uncomfortable, I don't want future BFs of mine to be uncomfortable, ya know? His family (both sides, parents are divorced) have said that if we were to ever break up, they'd trade him to keep me, hah. It's all in light family humor or course, but we are close.

I'm also worried about the friendships. I moved to the city I'm in knowing nobody for collge and met BF here. He comes from another city but that is only within 30 minutes-1 hour (depending on traffic) to where we are now. A lot of people from highschool and other areas of his life are also in this city for college and other things. He knew lots of people coming here. I met lots of people through him. Some I see regularly (like last night I had dinner with a girl he went to high school with, but we're closer as we had the same undergrad progam and hung out a lot). I hope those friendships don't dry up, I'd guess they won't since these people (in my mind) never hang out with him anymore outside of seeing him when they're with me. *fingers crossed*.

Hard, so hard.

 

[decodelighted]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Some folks will probably think this is a rude question but I'm curious. Are you going to reveal your PS identity at any point here? Or just drop off the LIW list w/o mentioning the connection. You certainly don't have any obligation to the community ... am just curious about your intent.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Some folks will probably think this is a rude question but I'm curious. Are you going to reveal your PS identity at any point here? Or just drop off the LIW list w/o mentioning the connection. You certainly don't have any obligation to the community ... am just curious about your intent.

Hah, I don't find it rude at all! I actually *always* wonder who the real PSer is when I these types of thread across the whole forum. I do plan to identify myself at some point. For now since BF knows I post on PS, though I'm not sure he knows my username since it's not something I use on any other site, I thought it best to keep myself anonymous in case he were to come across this. I would just hate for him to hear (or read) any of this anywhere than directly from me. I think my writing style is pretty distinct, so some people may have already identified me. I have been around LIW for a long time and will say that I'm currently what I would consider very high on the list.

After this is all said and done, I planned to link to this thread for anyone (who hadn't already) read the saga and how it unfolded. I will be coming off the list, I will be moving into my own apartment in the next few months when our lease is up, and from there I will see where the relationship goes. At this point I don't have the intention to end it right away, but I have every intention of forcing this relationship to take a step back, regain my independence and see if we even fit into each other's lives anymore without the fact that we used to sleep in the same bed. I had a friend of mine at dinner the other night (who has known BF longer than I have) say that she wonders if he'll even make the effort to see me regularly if we're not living together. I've thought of this too.

I actually do feel that I have some obligation to the community, you all have been SO supportive, kind, caring, thoughtful and all of your personal experiences have really given me strength to see that I'm not happy.

Last night I downloaded the kindle e-book, "The Four Factors: Should You Stay, Go or Improve Your Relationship?" I'm already half done and so far, I haven't passed any of the tests (answering honestly) with more than an "Ok" (his scale is Great, Good, Ok, Poor). It's opening my eyes to the fact that I feel like I want to be with and around him all the time, I'm wickedly attracted to him, and I don't think he feels the same way. I'm thinking of asking him to read it and see what he thinks. I feel like I pour my heart out to him and talk to him about everything (when he doesn't shh me or cut me off) and that he doesn't openly talk to or share anything with me. (the first two of the four factors). I feel like I'm in a one-sided relationship and of course this is why he feels everything is Great.

 

[Blackpaw]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

****HUGS**** AP, i hope everything goes ok, im sure you'll be right, no matter what the outcome is...

 

[tyty333]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I just have to say I wish I had been as level headed at 24 as you are. I probably would have reacted mostly out of emotion and
it probably would have been very ugly. You got a good head on your shoulders... big hugs for taking some big steps!

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

****HUGS**** AP, i hope everything goes ok, im sure you'll be right, no matter what the outcome is...

Thanks

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I just have to say I wish I had been as level headed at 24 as you are. I probably would have reacted mostly out of emotion and
it probably would have been very ugly. You got a good head on your shoulders... big hugs for taking some big steps!

Thanks tyty333, I appreciate the compliment.

 

[TwinkleStar]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Last night I downloaded the kindle e-book, "The Four Factors: Should You Stay, Go or Improve Your Relationship?" I'm already half done and so far, I haven't passed any of the tests (answering honestly) with more than an "Ok" (his scale is Great, Good, Ok, Poor). It's opening my eyes to the fact that I feel like I want to be with and around him all the time, I'm wickedly attracted to him, and I don't think he feels the same way. I'm thinking of asking him to read it and see what he thinks. I feel like I pour my heart out to him and talk to him about everything (when he doesn't shh me or cut me off) and that he doesn't openly talk to or share anything with me. (the first two of the four factors). I feel like I'm in a one-sided relationship and of course this is why he feels everything is Great.

I think you have been holding up amazingly well and really keeping everything in perspective. I just wanted to tag along another book recommendation that really proved insightful for learning more about me and any SO, especially in how we communicate: "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It just really gave me great perspective, and I hope it can be helpful for you, too, on your new journey of self-discovery. HUGS!

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Mini update:

The other night I went to do with a few of my lady friends from undergrad. It was so good to see them. I had told BF that I was going out to dinner before studying for one of my exams. He has class on the night I was going so I didn't think much of it. Well, he ended up being so burnt out and exhausted that he skipped class that night and got home just as I was about to walk out the door. He told me I looked really nice and asked where I was going. I reminded him of my girl's dinner, and he said oh, yeah, right. He went into the kitchen saying he was starving and asking what we had to eat. I told him I didn't know but I was sure there was something he cold fix. He then proceeded to complain that I was getting to go out to dinner and he had to fix something at home. Whatever dude, not inviting you, this is my girl's reunion dinner (I hadn't seen a few of the girls in nearly 2 years). I got there and a few of the girls ended up not being able to make it, but it ended up being me and three others that I was really close too. We all went around about how everything was going. One of the girls that started dating her BF around my BF and I's 3rd anniversary have started talking engagement and marriage in the next year-year 1/2. I was so happy for her! But then the question came to me about BF and I and I sort of broke down. There were all very supportive and couldn't believe I was being so level headed. One of them (who is nearly 40, married young and has two kids, one in middle school, one in high school) said she could relate so much and stressed not to let it continue. She said I would regret it. Her husband is very much like my BF, needy, dependent, doesn't help around the house or with the kids. Mind you, he only works full time, she also works full time, is a full time graduate student and is raising two kids. I can relate to her. I don't have any kids are an overly hefty plate, and his lack of concern and help around the house, with the pets, etc is so frustrating! They all agreed (they know him) that they he can change if he gets a chance to grow up, and that living apart is a great first step towards finding out if he will actually do so or not and that either way, it'll get better for me whether that's with or without him in my life.

There are times when he's being so helpful and nice that I think, maybe I'm underestimating him, and then there's others where my mind is telling me, shut up! You're giving him too much credit! He's only making tiny surface changes in order to let you think he's doing something good and he's resenting me for it already! I really think this is my only option. We have to live apart.

Today solidified this feeling for me even more. BF and I finally got through the first round of exams and craziness for this semester and actually had the weekend free to do whatever. We slept in this morning (which was lovely!) and proceeded to a day of lounging around not doing much of anything. He normally isn't a sleep-iner, I am. The pets woke me up around 10 or so wanting their breakfast and the dog wanted to go out. It's his job to walk her in the mornings (one of his few jobs that has actually stuck). He didn't get up to take care of them, and it just so happens my sister called so I got up to talk to her and take care of them. By the time I was done and off the phone, he was getting up. He heard me in the kitchen and thought I was making him breakfast and was seriously disappointed that I hadn't. Are you kidding me?! Um, no. I went back to bed and couldn't sleep. I finally gave up and got up and he was complaining about being hungry. To be somewhat fair, I hadn't been to the store this week and we didn't really have anything, but he could have gone out and got something for both of us, but no. He just waited until I got up and took care of everything, as usual. I did everything I always do on the weekends, from the grocery shopping, dishes, food, laundry, etc while he sat around not offering to help with anything. And then he actually asked me as he was headed to bed if I would come in and rub his neck, it was really bothering him while I was in the middle of trying to finish the laundry so that I myself could go to bed.

I just really thinks he doesn't get it, or doesn't care, I don't know. Sappy songs used to make me think of him, anymore, the songs that remind me of him are well, not sappy. Case in point- heard Reba's new song on the radio this afternoon and it made me think of him. Reba - If I were a boy (watch video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLL9babg8zA) Sara Evans - A little big stronger is another one (watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22zB6Soc2Gk). This is not normal, I know. Sad breakup type songs are not what should make you think of your current BF.

When it comes down to it, I just don't feel the love between us that I used to. I do love him, and if he loved me half as much as I love him, I think I wouldn't be feeling this way. I really feel like I've gone from being the one thing he can't live without because he loves me, the one thing he can't live without because I support him. (another Reba - Consider me gone: watch here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw_L8HdoYgo).

I feel weaker today than normal. I'm not second guessing myself, just feeling more vulnerable than I have the last few weeks.

(and sorry, turned out to be more than a mini update...)

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Last night I downloaded the kindle e-book, "The Four Factors: Should You Stay, Go or Improve Your Relationship?" I'm already half done and so far, I haven't passed any of the tests (answering honestly) with more than an "Ok" (his scale is Great, Good, Ok, Poor). It's opening my eyes to the fact that I feel like I want to be with and around him all the time, I'm wickedly attracted to him, and I don't think he feels the same way. I'm thinking of asking him to read it and see what he thinks. I feel like I pour my heart out to him and talk to him about everything (when he doesn't shh me or cut me off) and that he doesn't openly talk to or share anything with me. (the first two of the four factors). I feel like I'm in a one-sided relationship and of course this is why he feels everything is Great.

I think you have been holding up amazingly well and really keeping everything in perspective. I just wanted to tag along another book recommendation that really proved insightful for learning more about me and any SO, especially in how we communicate: "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It just really gave me great perspective, and I hope it can be helpful for you, too, on your new journey of self-discovery. HUGS!

Thanks! I've read it. I scored the highest in Words of Affirmation and second in Acts of Service. BF scored the highest (without a particularly close second) in Acts of Service. He feels loved (I do EVERYTHING!), but he forgets that that's how I feel loved too, and that even him sounding grateful, thankful, appreciative is enough to make me feel completely satisfied. I feel like I tailor what I do to fulfill his needs, and fit with how he feels loved, and I don't think 1/4 of the thought I put into trying to satisfy him and his needs, he puts into doing the same for me. It hurts to think about it like that.

 

[TwinkleStar]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Thanks! I've read it. I scored the highest in Words of Affirmation and second in Acts of Service. BF scored the highest (without a particularly close second) in Acts of Service. He feels loved (I do EVERYTHING!), but he forgets that that's how I feel loved too, and that even him sounding grateful, thankful, appreciative is enough to make me feel completely satisfied. I feel like I tailor what I do to fulfill his needs, and fit with how he feels loved, and I don't think 1/4 of the thought I put into trying to satisfy him and his needs, he puts into doing the same for me. It hurts to think about it like that.

Reading this made me misty-eyed! The goal of the book is to identify how you and the other person like to communicate so that you can be better partners to each other. Knowing this makes me even more proud of you for breaking it off for now and stepping out on your own. You deserve to be happy and fulfilled.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

BF just left to go flying. He made no mention of it to me until he was walking out the door. Mind you, I never asked him to give it up, that's something he volunteered to do on his own in order to save money, etc. So much for that.

 

[tyty333]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

BF just left to go flying. He made no mention of it to me until he was walking out the door. Mind you, I never asked him to give it up, that's something he volunteered to do on his own in order to save money, etc. So much for that.

WHAT??? You would have thought he would have explained himself. Sounds like your words went in one ear and out the other...
I just dont get it? Well, I have to say that act should make you feel a little bit stronger. Doesnt look like he's really going to
make any changes.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

BF just left to go flying. He made no mention of it to me until he was walking out the door. Mind you, I never asked him to give it up, that's something he volunteered to do on his own in order to save money, etc. So much for that.

WHAT??? You would have thought he would have explained himself. Sounds like your words went in one ear and out the other...
I just dont get it? Well, I have to say that act should make you feel a little bit stronger. Doesnt look like he's really going to
make any changes.

The only thing he was was defensive of his choice. Only going for an hour, just enough to stay current, blah blah blah. I never asked him to give it up. The only things that really pissed me off were that a) he didn't mention it until he was walking out the door (intentionally), b) he was the one who said he was going to give it up to save money, I NEVER asked him to do anything that drastic, and c) he was accusing me of being mad about him going. He put all kinds of words into my mouth about hating that he flies and all kinds of other BS that never came out of my mouth. He just got home and was all happy, excited whatever and came in saying he had so much fun and blah blah blah and that "oh nevermind, I really want to tell you about it, but you'll just get mad. I'm going to bed." He didn't offer to do anything that needs to be done before bed either, dishes from earlier, take out the trash, walk the dog, pack lunches...nope, all me, again.

 

[decodelighted]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

You know ... I'm starting to think you like this. In a masochistic kind of way. You're enjoying the drama of telling these stories about how HORRIBLE he is to you and what a responsible, hard-working MARTYR you are despite everything.

Really? Really he didn't walk the dog and went straight to bed? What in the world would make you think he wouldn't since he never does and you always put up with it.

I hope I'm wrong. Get. A. Grip. Girl. He doesn't love you. Love is action. His only actions are ones that benefit his one true love: himself.

Predictions:

NEXT UPDATE: He's still a *dick*! Listen to the new evidence! I have taken detailed notes smeared w/my tears.

UPDATE #110: Yup ... dickier than ever! But still I stay! Can you believe that?

UPDATE #1,000,000: He is Soooooooo bad! Let me count the ways! And yes, I'm suffering through this BS? Crazy right?!

Rinse repeat.


ETA: Oh, and BTW -- he doesn't EVEN LOVE THE DOG. If he did: he'd care if the dog was walked.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

So walk the dog. It's not the dog's fault that he's a selfish pr!ck. Make your lunch. Do your dishes. Go to work. Make plans to do something for YOURSELF tomorrow after work so you aren't stuck at home seething. Wash YOUR laundry. Do this until you move out. He will never change for you and as Decoded (albeit a little roughly) said - he does NOT love you, love is action.

At this point, I'm afraid that you're just doing these things so you don't feel badly about ditching the loser once you can get out. Honey, save yourself some time. NOBODY is going to fault you and once you've put this behind you, you won't fault yourself. Trust us.

ETA: Eat out of the house as much as possible until further notice. Do NOT stock the fridge. Do NOT pack lunches. Do NOT make breakfast on weekends . Take a walk to the store and buy some fresh fruit, yogurt, whatever and sit on a bench and eat. Schedule as many evenings away as possible - schedule dinner at friends' homes where you can cook together so it doesn't cost anymore than if you were cooking at home. Hey, make extra so you have leftovers for lunch the next day for yourself!

Yes, I am saying to go out of your way not for 24 hours, but for the duration of your stay. He will throw a fit, he will apologize to get back to status quo, then as soon as you resume your motherly duties for him, he'll go right back to being himself.