girls,did your SO pick up the dinner tab...

[missy]

I find this odd too. I would want the guy to understand that I had a vested interest in the relationship and wasnt just using them
for a free meal. Its odd that we all think so differently on the subject.

I find this very interesting. I never knew any girl/woman who used a man for a free meal. I don't think any of us were ever that desperate and in addition, I never dated a boy/man who wasn't intelligent enough to realize the difference b/w a girl/woman who genuinely wanted to get to know him vs one who just wanted a meal ticket.

I think the differences b/w our responses is varied because we come from diverse background with different experiences. There is no one right or wrong way here. There is only a right or wrong way for each couple and that's the beauty of it.

I was raised knowing chivalry (pulling out chairs, opening doors etc) was important and in general, the man paid for the dates with the exception of when you were taking him out. Of course I could open my own doors and pay for my own dates. I owned my apt in full when I met my dh and I also owned my car and took fabulous vacations. It was obvious I wasn't using him for the food/entertainment etc. We just enjoyed the traditional dating roles while still both of us being very independent individuals. I know to some it might seem a dichotomy but it was not for us. I also expected the man to see me home whether it be via car/taxi or subway or walking. It was just the right thing to do (for me).

I also did date poor college students and men who didn't make much money at all and guess what? We still had great dates. Home cooked meals (by the men as I cannot cook a lick ), long walks, bike rides, etc. There is so much to do that doesn't cost much in NYC that it was just never an issue. It was always about the person whose company I enjoyed rather than what we were actually doing on the date.

 

[MonkeyPie]

I was raised knowing chivalry (pulling out chairs, opening doors etc) was important and in general, the man paid for the dates with the exception of when you were taking him out.

I like having my doors opened for me too, though pulling out the chair has always made me feel weird. I also think it's lazy to just sit in the car and wait while the guy comes around to open my door. My DH does most of the things you would assume are old-school chivalry, but when it comes to money I have no desire to feel like a mooch (not saying that anyone here is for wanting their meal paid). Opening a door or pulling out a chair doesn't compare to shelling out hard-earned cash to me.

 

[tammy77]

My DH and I were long distance for nearly a year before our first "real" date. He visited for the weekend and paid for almost everything. I only managed to pay for gas, movie tickets and I think a couple of lunches. That was when he made a lot more than I did. We went through a period of unemployment for him where I picked up most of the expenses. Once he moved in we both felt comfortable to meld money so there really is not "him paying/me paying". He still likes to use his debit card for the account though if we go out usually, it's just one of those things that a lot of men feel masculine/like the provider of the family by perhaps?

Whatever the case, I don't mind. We joke about it sometimes since it's joint money but I know he works just as hard for it as I do, if not more. I just appreciate it when he plans dates, especially this far down the road!

 

[Colltee]

I was raised knowing chivalry (pulling out chairs, opening doors etc) was important and in general, the man paid for the dates with the exception of when you were taking him out.

I like having my doors opened for me too, though pulling out the chair has always made me feel weird. I also think it's lazy to just sit in the car and wait while the guy comes around to open my door. My DH does most of the things you would assume are old-school chivalry, but when it comes to money I have no desire to feel like a mooch (not saying that anyone here is for wanting their meal paid). Opening a door or pulling out a chair doesn't compare to shelling out hard-earned cash to me.

You and I Monkeypie are totally on the same wavelength on this topic. Comparing basic acts of chivalry (which, some might argue are simply old-fashioned and dated) against never putting your hand in your pocket to pay for your meal or drinks is ridiculous - they're totally different concepts. Please note though honestly I'm not aiming this comment at anyone on PS, my gripe is with the fair few women I know personally in real life who have this attitude ~ they even expect all their drinks bought for them, especially in the first few weeks of dating.

BTW, I agree too, it's nice when a bloke opens a door for a woman but I don't expect it, my husband will generally do this for me out of manners, but I often do the same for him. I have a vag**a but I also have two arms which I don't mind using from time to time... Also, and note - not that anyone on here has stated they actually do this BUT, I'd feel like a moron sitting in the passenger seat of my car waiting for husband to walk round and open my door. For me It's akin to expecting a man to take off his jacket and place it over a puddle.

My father-in-law (76) does something which drive me nuts; whenever we're out for a meal he always hands the wine list to my husband to pick out, if he's not making the decision himself (note - this is on occasions when we're all paying each, or per couple etc), it's like because I'm a woman I have no iota about wine (?!?!) I pulled him up on it in a restaurant once (when I might add I was paying for the whole lot!), he does it I think because his wife (whom I love to pieces BTW) always lets him pick out the wine as its a generational thing for them and I guess they have a mutual understanding which works for them. If my husband just told me what I was going to be drinking, I'd be raging

On a light-hearted end not, this whole conversation is totally reminding me of this (hilarious) skit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwNGU

 

[TristanC]

I like having my doors opened for me too, though pulling out the chair has always made me feel weird. I also think it's lazy to just sit in the car and wait while the guy comes around to open my door. My DH does most of the things you would assume are old-school chivalry, but when it comes to money I have no desire to feel like a mooch (not saying that anyone here is for wanting their meal paid). Opening a door or pulling out a chair doesn't compare to shelling out hard-earned cash to me.

I've seen it before a couple of times where a woman just sits in the car and waits for her partner to walk over and open the door for her to exit. I think its plausibly doable if you open the door for her to get in, if you get to the car first but seriously... why sit in the car and not move till the door is opened for you? There wasn't even a beaming smile so that you know the couple was kidding around or just enjoying the moment or anything like that.

Once I just blurted out. "Poor girl, she must be a paraplegic (she was obviously fine)", and the guy just grinned. I think there were some issues in that relationship. I'd have expected the guy would take offence if he caught what I said...

 

[Laila619]

Comparing basic acts of chivalry (which, some might argue are simply old-fashioned and dated) against never putting your hand in your pocket to pay for your meal or drinks is ridiculous - they're totally different concepts.

Well, not everyone agrees.

To echo someone's sentiment on another thread: don't like when the guy pays for you? Then don't date those kinds of guys. There's a lid for every pot.

 

[Colltee]

Comparing basic acts of chivalry (which, some might argue are simply old-fashioned and dated) against never putting your hand in your pocket to pay for your meal or drinks is ridiculous - they're totally different concepts.

Well, not everyone agrees.

To echo someone's sentiment on another thread: don't like when the guy pays for you? Then don't date those kinds of guys. There's a lid for every pot.

I totally agree! Variety and expression of one's own opinions are what make the world go round and in general, makes for an interesting and all rounded, light-hearted debate, wouldn't you say?

 

[monarch64]

S always opens the car door for me, and closes it once I'm in. I do not wait for him to "let me out," though. He's not my freaking chauffeur, ya know? He does all those little things and I find it charming. He always situates himself so that I am on the inside of the sidewalk and he is closest to traffic, pulls out my chair for me, stands whenever I or any other female approaches the table, etc. I call it gentlemanly, and I appreciate being treated like a lady. It works for us.

 

[zoebartlett]

My husband opens doors for me and he often opens my car door to let me in before walking around to his side. I think they're nice gestures but it wouldn't bother me if he stopped. Also, I can't imagine just sitting in the car, waiting for my husband to open the door so I could get OUT of the car though. I'd feel silly.

I once dated a guy who pulled the car up to the door of a store we were going into so I could get out. He was going to park the car after letting me out. I told him it was unnecessary to do that and I actually felt uncomfortable. If it had been raining, I may have reacted differently, but it wasn't. I'm not sure why I felt so weird about that but I did.

I don't like it when guys (waiters, mostly) try to pull out my chair and then push it back in at a table. It's just awkward.

 

[MonkeyPie]

All the talk about car doors reminded me of a clip from Newlyweds. Jessica complained to Nick about how he used to open doors for her and now she has to do it herself. And he replied, "Well, I used to get sex once in awhile, too." I about died

 

[centralsquare]

All the talk about car doors reminded me of a clip from Newlyweds. Jessica complained to Nick about how he used to open doors for her and now she has to do it herself. And he replied, "Well, I used to get sex once in awhile, too." I about died

I thought the same thing!

 

[AmeliaG]

I get weirded out if a guy wants to pull my chair or have me wait in the car for him to open the door. I guess there are exceptions - if the chair is heavy and I'm having trouble pulling it out or if there is junk on the sidewalk on my side of the car and I need help navigating my way out.

But just as a courtesy? It just feels weird.

 

[tyty333]

Thanks for a different perspective that I've not considered before. Always interesting to see the undertones behind 'automatic' and socially accepted behavior. Regardless of cultural divides and geographical distance.

I remain oddly disconcerted by the number of people who are proud that their SO picks up every single tab every single time though. Unless they are homemakers of course.

I find this odd too. I would want the guy to understand that I had a vested interest in the relationship and wasnt just using them
for a free meal. Its odd that we all think so differently on the subject.

I see this very differently: in my socioeconomic strata/age group/geographic location, I know a lot of women are very wary that men are only after one thing, and furthermore, pride themselves on getting that one thing as cheaply as possible. Demanding men pay up for dates is a way to test how seriously they're taking this whole dating endeavor, and a way for men to prove themselves. If a guy tried to make me pay for the first date, I would wonder if he wasn't just looking for a cheap ticket into my pants. A thoughtful date that he pays for goes a long way to convincing me he actually wants to date me.

Here is my logic...seems like the more he paid the more he would think he should have the opportunity to get into your pants.
(maybe I dont have a very good opinion of guys )

Kind of what Black Jade said...

I had experiences before with guys who spent lots of money on me on a first date and thought this meant they had bought me, and sometimes even shouted at me that they paid however many dollars to take me out and how dare I not sleep with them because of this expense (can you imagine?)

I'm not judging (on any of these post) because it does seem like it very much depends on the area/situation/guy/couple. I can only
tell you my logic and where I'm coming from.

 

[MissStepcut]

tyty, I see what you're saying, but I don't think a guy expecting sex for paying is my problem. If he goes home disappointed, that's his problem. I do, however, know guys who make a game of investing as little into the relationship (financially and otherwise) as possible and still getting laid. In my circle/age group/etc, that's a waaaay more prevalent concern.

 

[tyty333]

tyty, I see what you're saying, but I don't think a guy expecting sex for paying is my problem. If he goes home disappointed, that's his problem. I do, however, know guys who make a game of investing as little into the relationship (financially and otherwise) as possible and still getting laid. In my circle/age group/etc, that's a waaaay more prevalent concern.

That is really sad . Is this the younger crowd? I admit...I'm older. I sure hope my 17 year old son isnt thinking
this way. If I find out he is I will personally kick his butt!

 

[JulieN]

That is really sad . Is this the younger crowd? I admit...I'm older. I sure hope my 17 year old son isnt thinking
this way. If I find out he is I will personally kick his butt!

Pretty unlikely for students, since most kids are spending their parents' money. When you don't have to work for the money yourself, then you don't care as much that you might have to pay for a milkshake. It's not that easy to get laid at that age, either.

More common among yuppies.

 

[missy]

S always opens the car door for me, and closes it once I'm in. I do not wait for him to "let me out," though. He's not my freaking chauffeur, ya know? He does all those little things and I find it charming. He always situates himself so that I am on the inside of the sidewalk and he is closest to traffic, pulls out my chair for me, stands whenever I or any other female approaches the table, etc. I call it gentlemanly, and I appreciate being treated like a lady. It works for us.

Yes, I agree, it's what works for the couple. I don't know anyone who actually waits to get the car door open by their SO to get out. That's a bit OTT IMO but to open the car door- no problem there. I do it for my dh when I'm the one driving so

 

[Black Jade]

I like to be treated like a lady also.
I like the door opened for me. I don't like to lug all the packages while the guy just strolls along. I was at a department meeing recently where the (heavy) tables were in the wrong place and the male faculty members stood chatting while the women pushed and pulled at them. Finally I said something to the men and then they helped. They looked ashamed of themselves, too. Which they should have been. THat wasn't even chivalry, that was just being decent.
I also think that men should be protective. A man should ALWAYS make sure that not jsut his SO but any woman, co-worker or anything that he is around not be left to walk to a car in a dark parking lot alone and things that just make NO SENSE in the world we live in today. It's harder for men to be gentlemen nowadays becuase they don't know when they will get blasted by some woman who thinks Keira Knightly-type movies are for real and that 105 lb women (size of your average Hollywood actress) or pregnant women can take out 10 or more six foot tall, body building type villains, but this is a fantasy that only happens when its a script and the director told the guys to fall down when the stunt double kicks them. Women should know how to protect themselves, of course, be alert, pepper spray and all that, but there's but jsut so much that you can do in real life when you're half the size of a man, even if you're a black-belt.
I especially think its a father's job to be protective of his daughter and I really, really disrespect fathers that don't bother to be there and let the young men in their daughter's life know that there's someone who will be watching to make sure that she doesn't get trashed. It is really useful if a young man knows that and though the daughter will probably be mad at the time, she'll be grateful later. But nowadays we get the absent father half the time and the lazy father a great deal of the rest of the time. Women gradually learn how to fend for themselves--an adult woman gets to a point where she makes her own decisions but all too often 14 year olds, 16 year olds who are still too dumb to know what's what are left out out there as easy prey by lazy fathers. I had a young woman tell me recently that she was so grateful that 'since I was thirteen, my father let me make my own dating decisions' -- I was so sorry for her and really wanted to tell her father a thing or two about the kind of 'dating decisions' a thirteen year old will make and how mad she will be in later life that he did not set some ground rules and also, basically, just show the guys that he was there and that they would have to answer to him for anything untoward that they might think of attempting and I don't mean by force, just the flattery and general conniving sneaky pressure that boys (and sometimes older men if you don't watch out) can put on girls to get what they're not supposed to be getting from thirteen year olds, and for good reason.

 

[Hera]

My husband did on our dates. I was always taught to only date men that would pay for the dinner and to never offer to pay or actually pay. I realize how awful that sounds today and am not happy to hear that I should have offered . I might have turned away some nice prospects. In my defense, this is at the beginning of the internet and we didn't have google or I would have done an internet search for the right answer. I'm lucky I'm not single today!

 

[Autumnovember]

That is really sad . Is this the younger crowd? I admit...I'm older. I sure hope my 17 year old son isnt thinking
this way. If I find out he is I will personally kick his butt!

Pretty unlikely for students, since most kids are spending their parents' money. When you don't have to work for the money yourself, then you don't care as much that you might have to pay for a milkshake. It's not that easy to get laid at that age, either.

More common among yuppies.

It's gotta be a regional thing. It happens a lot around here especially with the younger crowd. I think at that age its actually TOO easy to get some.

 

[jewelerman]

on the topic of men and chivalry...i don't think its completely dead yet...my friends and i always open doors for ladies,walk on the outside on the street when walking with a women,ask our dinner partner if they would like to go first when ordering, and open car doors for them.Its about respect and we enjoy doing it in our relationships.
May i give one suggestion to the ladies as we are in this discussion...when a man opens the car door for you and you get in and he shuts your door...please remember that its a nice gesture to lean over and unlock his door for him rather then waiting for him to fumble with his keys in the dark or rain and unlock his door. Also its always nice for a man who is carrying an armful of boxes out of a store to have his female companion open the door rather the expecting him to do double duty and back into the door and open it for her as well.When Ive discussed this with women they have said they never thought about unlocking the guys car door for him before because their mother never did it for their father.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Of course.

 

[missy]

on the topic of men and chivalry...i don't think its completely dead yet...my friends and i always open doors for ladies,walk on the outside on the street when walking with a women,ask our dinner partner if they would like to go first when ordering, and open car doors for them.Its about respect and we enjoy doing it in our relationships.
May i give one suggestion to the ladies as we are in this discussion...when a man opens the car door for you and you get in and he shuts your door...please remember that its a nice gesture to lean over and unlock his door for him rather then waiting for him to fumble with his keys in the dark or rain and unlock his door. Also its always nice for a man who is carrying an armful of boxes out of a store to have his female companion open the door rather the expecting him to do double duty and back into the door and open it for her as well.When Ive discussed this with women they have said they never thought about unlocking the guys car door for him before because their mother never did it for their father.

This is an automatic reflex for me-
I thought this was common sense and common courtesy but I keep forgetting common sense and courtesy are not always so common
Thanks for reminding people of this jewelerman.

btw, my mom always leaned over to open my dad's car door and ditto with packages etc. There are some things that you should really just know...

 

[FrekeChild]

He bought me food. He also paid for the subsequent trip to Las Vegas. I literally had no money and he knew it. He wanted my company, so he willingly paid for it. And plenty of meals afterward.

 

[Black Jade]

Thanks, jewelerman. I do try to do this! Want the hubby to know how much i appreciate him and take care of him, too!

on the topic of men and chivalry...i don't think its completely dead yet...my friends and i always open doors for ladies,walk on the outside on the street when walking with a women,ask our dinner partner if they would like to go first when ordering, and open car doors for them.Its about respect and we enjoy doing it in our relationships.
May i give one suggestion to the ladies as we are in this discussion...when a man opens the car door for you and you get in and he shuts your door...please remember that its a nice gesture to lean over and unlock his door for him rather then waiting for him to fumble with his keys in the dark or rain and unlock his door. Also its always nice for a man who is carrying an armful of boxes out of a store to have his female companion open the door rather the expecting him to do double duty and back into the door and open it for her as well.When Ive discussed this with women they have said they never thought about unlocking the guys car door for him before because their mother never did it for their father.

 

[MissStepcut]

tyty, I see what you're saying, but I don't think a guy expecting sex for paying is my problem. If he goes home disappointed, that's his problem. I do, however, know guys who make a game of investing as little into the relationship (financially and otherwise) as possible and still getting laid. In my circle/age group/etc, that's a waaaay more prevalent concern.

That is really sad . Is this the younger crowd? I admit...I'm older. I sure hope my 17 year old son isnt thinking
this way. If I find out he is I will personally kick his butt!

I'm in my mid-20s now and it's starting to get a little better, mostly bc women are wising up and raising their expectations (e.g. expecting men to pay for dinner!). I didn't really notice it starting til I got to college. In high school, at least where I grew up, there was more social pressure to behave well in relationships. Then, in college, there was more anonymity, and maybe also a culture shift towards living it up and misbehaving because, "hey, it's college!" The bad habits men picked up then followed us to the next stage of our lives.