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I need some encouragment - big time.

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joflier - so sorry to hear about your soon-to-be ex-husband''s shady behavior
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It sounds like you have your head on really straight and are taking steps to protect yourself financially and emotionally. Good for you - I know you will come out of this stronger, whereas he will always be a creep who tries to take advantage of those around him
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I don''t have the right words right now.. but I want you to know I"m thinking about you and I hope everything works out for the better. I can''t believe the way your xh is acting!! I mean, really????
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Jeez.. sure is shady. Just know that you are in my thoughts.
 
Joflier Just FYI, although Wisconsin technically does divide assets equally in a divorce the court can basically take ANYTHING into consideration that they want when determining what "equally" is. So if you have to go to court you are going to want all the evidence possible that you did not know about his debt and had nothing to do with it. Anything you can pull up might help you out.

ALSO a business held solely in his name may not be marital property depending on the situation, and thus you wouldn't be responsible for any debt that accrued because of it. Something to consider too.

Big hugs!!!
 
Date: 1/14/2009 8:11:04 PM
Author: neatfreak
Joflier Just FYI, although Wisconsin technically does divide assets equally in a divorce the court can basically take ANYTHING into consideration that they want when determining what ''equally'' is. So if you have to go to court you are going to want all the evidence possible that you did not know about his debt and had nothing to do with it. Anything you can pull up might help you out.

ALSO a business held solely in his name may not be marital property depending on the situation, and thus you wouldn''t be responsible for any debt that accrued because of it. Something to consider too.

Big hugs!!!
Thanks neat! Your right, I guess if it has to come down to a court battle, then I doubt I''ll be responsible for much of anything of his. I''ve financially floated our marriage as far as paying all the living expenses. For the entire marriage. I have no savings account because I''ve done that, and let him invest everything into his business. So doing that, he''s gone into major debt, and I have nothing. Living paycheck to paychech to barely hang on to the house, there''s no way I could ever deal with any of his debt.
 
Oh Joflier, I just saw this post. I''m so sorry you are going through this tough time, but SO encouraged and inspired by your perseverance and sense of humor despite all of that. You are a very strong woman! It sounds like you are without a doubt doing the right thing for YOU and thinking about putting YOUR needs first-- good for you!! Take your time to figure it out and to heal. I am thinking of you.
 
Joflier, LOL, you are so nice to reply to each and every one of us
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How are you doing? Did you finally get in touch with an attorney?
Alot of people have said this before but I''ll say it again: You''re much stronger than you think you are and after all this madness ends you''ll look back and feel proud of yourself for surviving it.
Good luck and remember that we''re all here for you!
 
Date: 1/14/2009 2:11:08 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
Ohhhhh, this is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!! I kept thinking, ''This JERK basically dictated the details of Jo''s wedding to her, which he had all figured out before he even proposed! I can just imagine how being married to him must have been!''
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And whatever you do, DON''T buy his sad little sob story about how everything is going to fall apart with his business if you don''t sign the divorce papers like yesterday. From what you said in your post, it sounds like he''s trying to tell you that the lenders involved in these transactions will only approve him for a loan if he is divorced. That just doesn''t happen. Lenders are usually much more inclined to DENY someone who is divorced, since there''s only one income and no potential for a second income unless/until the person gets married. In fact, I would be surprised if C didn''t give the lenders your income info in order to get approved for the loans in the first place! Definitely sounds like there''s something shady going on here.
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Jo, I know these words will sound hollow to you right now, but I think you''ll find that this divorce is one of the best things that ever happened to you. I might be way off-base here (and if so I apologize), but I think C and my XH are very similar people. My XH was extremely controlling and abusive and it took me a long time to figure out that the problems in our relationship WEREN''T MY FAULT and that I deserved so much better. Trust me when I say that YOU DESERVE BETTER TOO!!! And I know it doesn''t feel like it right now, but ''better'' IS out there. I promise. This isn''t an ending for you . . . it''s a new beginning!
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Damn, I wish I could beat him up for you!!!
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Hee hee. You make me laugh. Right now, I''m feeling pretty tough and mighty. We''ll see how I feel in the morning. I''m just steeling myself to ignore his sob story and just worry about myself. When I got home from work tonight, my mom and dad were already here changing the locks for me. And my mom even did the dishes (he left a mess in the kitchen from feeding his family/moving crew when he left) not that that''s anything new.......anyhow, and she brought a vacuum cleaner to clean my floors. (he took the one we had, and I don''t know that I''ve ever even seen him use a vacuum before). Actually, I don''t know if I posted this or not, but when he moved out, we agreed that he only wanted a dresser, desk and some of his misc. items. Well, he took the majority of everything. I still have my bed and the couches and kitchen table. But not much more. He even took one of my erings and wedding bands. Well, that''s how the cookie rolls I guess.
And I agree wholeheartedly, that this is going to be a monumental turning point in my life. For the good!
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Date: 1/14/2009 2:17:53 PM
Author: joflier
A lot of people think that this is easy for me because I don''t show my emotions much, when I''m around other people. I''m just very private that way. And they don''t see me all devastated and crawling in a corner to die, so they assume that I''m just fine, and not hurting at all. After all, I''m the one who made the decsicion to leave. And then their saying that I must have someone on the side if I''m not all broken up and emotional. That hurts. But I suppose people will believe whatever they want to help them cope, even if its not true......

First, as a lawyer, I absolutely recommend having a lawyer before you sign anything. The person you owe something to is yourself not him. You have no obligation to sign anything for him until you are ready. If his deals fail in the meantime, tough. That''s not a good enough reason for you to sign neither is any potential debt. Perhaps he should be working on his deals instead of pressuring you to sign.

Also, a good lawyer would not try to push/coerce/force you in to signing something so you should not be meeting with a lawyer like this without one of your own. There is no reason that you must continue to speak to him on the phone or in person. I would leave him a message or send an email (so that you have a paper trail) asking him not to call you again. You can say that you find his calls threatening and you consider it harassment. You can indicate that you''ve found an attorney and your attorney will contact his attorney in the near future.

Some people think that they can review agreements and don''t need a lawyer, they''ll be fine. This may be the case but keep in mind, this is the specialty of your lawyer. Just like you go to a doctor when you are sick or need surgery and would not consider doing it yourself, do not consider taking on the job of an attorney unless you have that skill. They see things you might not see, they understand the legal jargon, they know the law in your state (not just the 50/50 split but the ins and outs of family law, what applies to you, what doesn''t), this is their job. Have you sat down and read the agreement they want you to sign? Do you understand each and every detail? Does it address your concerns and your needs? Do you know the specifics of the law in your state and what you are entitled to? Let a lawyer do their job. Just my opinion.

Now, to the more important subject (and sorry this is all so long), you. You know what, to those people who are making assumptions about you, it really doesn''t matter what they think. To those that assume you must have someone on the side, it doesn''t matter what they think. Really, it doesn''t matter. This is private to you and you have the right to handle it however you want. You are entitled to handle things the way you want. There is nothing wrong with wanting your private life private. Please try not to let them make you feel bad. Can you just stay away from those people? Surround yourself with those who truly know you, care about you and support you. Because honestly, anyone saying mean things to you right now and making mean assumptions does not care about you. I am so sorry that you are hurting. I think back to a time in my life when I felt some of the pain you might be feeling. The thought of others seeing that pain was too much for me to bare. The only way I could keep it under control was to keep it inside and share it only with those I trusted the most. I understand the need to be private. You do what you need to do for yourself right now. This time is hard enough without stupid people so just try to ignore them. They aren''t worth it.

Sorry this was all so long. I am really sorry you''re going through all of this and hope that the pain goes away as quickly as possible. Remember that strength inside of you!
 
Date: 1/14/2009 2:51:20 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl

And we will all DEFINITELY be at your appointment with your lawyer on Friday morning! Have you seen those Verizon commercials with ''the network'' and there''s a huge crowd of people standing behind the person with the cell phone? That will be us!!!
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WORD.

I''m so sorry you''re going through this - I''ll be thinking of you.
 
Date: 1/14/2009 11:28:58 PM
Author: joflier

And my mom even did the dishes (he left a mess in the kitchen from feeding his family/moving crew when he left) not that that's anything new.......anyhow, and she brought a vacuum cleaner to clean my floors. (he took the one we had, and I don't know that I've ever even seen him use a vacuum before). Actually, I don't know if I posted this or not, but when he moved out, we agreed that he only wanted a dresser, desk and some of his misc. items. Well, he took the majority of everything. I still have my bed and the couches and kitchen table. But not much more. He even took one of my erings and wedding bands. Well, that's how the cookie rolls I guess.

And I agree wholeheartedly, that this is going to be a monumental turning point in my life. For the good!
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Sorry, didn't read all the posts before writing my last one. This is all stuff that you tell your lawyer. What you might want to do between now and your appt. is think about relevant factors and create an outline or timeline of your marriage for your attorney. Financial history (you said you paid all the bills and allowed him to invest in his business), emotional history, etc... These are all important things for your attorney to know.

I am glad you are feeling strong and positive right now! You *will* get through this!
 
OMG Joflier!!!

I just read this thread and my heart goes out to you! I have been through a divorce and it sucks! Just be happy there were no children involved! (I told myself that everytime I felt like I hit rock bottom!) You will overcome!

Hang in there as best as you can and we''re all here for ya on PS!

*Hugs*
 
joflier, so sorry to hear this. Please take care of yourself. Know that we are all thinking of you. Hugs.
 
Date: 1/14/2009 11:28:58 PM
Author: joflier
Hee hee. You make me laugh. Right now, I''m feeling pretty tough and mighty. We''ll see how I feel in the morning. I''m just steeling myself to ignore his sob story and just worry about myself. When I got home from work tonight, my mom and dad were already here changing the locks for me. And my mom even did the dishes (he left a mess in the kitchen from feeding his family/moving crew when he left) not that that''s anything new.......anyhow, and she brought a vacuum cleaner to clean my floors. (he took the one we had, and I don''t know that I''ve ever even seen him use a vacuum before). Actually, I don''t know if I posted this or not, but when he moved out, we agreed that he only wanted a dresser, desk and some of his misc. items. Well, he took the majority of everything. I still have my bed and the couches and kitchen table. But not much more. He even took one of my erings and wedding bands. Well, that''s how the cookie rolls I guess.
And I agree wholeheartedly, that this is going to be a monumental turning point in my life. For the good!
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It''s so sweet that your mom washed the dishes and cleaned for you.
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I guess you already know you''re lucky to have them. Parents'' love is probably the strongest, primal and unfailing feeling in the world. Try to rely on them and seek their support during this hard time for you. And good for you for wanting to reconnect with your friends. You''d need all the positive emotions, fun and affection you can get.

I don''t know anything about your soon-to-be ex-husband, but just reading at this single post of yours, I could tell you made the right decision. Don''t feel bad about the things he took; it''s exactly this - things. You''re about to gain the most important thing of all - your freedom and independence. As well as a chance to have the bright, wonderful future, full of love and happiness that you deserve!
 
jo, I''m so sorry he''s being bitter. You remain in my thoughts and I hope you''re feeling strong and content in your decision this morning.
 
Date: 1/14/2009 2:42:12 PM
Author: coatimundi
Oh Jodi--sending you more (((((hugs)))))--been thinking about you.

Ditto Italia and others about getting a good lawyer before you sign anything.

I''m so sorry about the way he has and is treating you.

You are so lovely and being tremendously strong through all this. Thanks for the updates. Sending you more support..

xoxo
Thank you Coates, for thinking of me. Your so sweet! I''m meeting a lawyer tomorrow morning at 8:30. Your welcome to come with me!
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Hopefully she is knowledgable and what I need. I''m feeling pretty good today. I have an appointment with a counselor this afternoon. I''m really hoping that he is able to help me sort out this whole relationship into words. I guess that''s the hard part about this. If C had hit me or verbally attacked me, or even raped me, I think it would be easier for myself, and my family to understand why I left. Or I could have broken free much sooner. But when its mental, its just so subjective. Its my word against his. There''s no evidence that you can see, or take pictures of. Its all perception. And I struggle with putting what I felt with him into words that make any sense to other people. And I want to. Hopefully I can achieve that.
 
Date: 1/14/2009 4:31:39 PM
Author: joflier

Date: 1/14/2009 10:56:56 AM
Author: Italiahaircolor
You need an attorney! Don''t even talk to him anymore until you have amazing repersenation. He''s not fighting fair...if Wisconsin splits things 50/50 then you''re going to get something, for him to tell you otherwise is wishful thinking on his part ... and if he''s in such a mad dash to get these properties, then tell him you''ll move forward with that as if you were husband and wife, but you''re not signing anything divorce related until you better understand the situation. Period.
The unfortunate part of this, is that I''m afraid I will get something. His debts. Because its coming out that he has ALOT more debt than I ever imagined. And I''m afraid there''s not enough equity to cover it. Not sure though. He hasn''t given me a financial disclosure sheet (which his divorce papers that he wanted me to sign, said that I did)
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From what I know about divorce, and splitting debt...you may be responsible for debt that was accumulated during the marriage for the benefit of the marriage.

For example, my dear friend is currently divorcing her husband. Her husband, as it turns out, has been trading "things" for drugs. His dealer will give him something along the lines of a "wish list" of good the dealer would accept inlue of cash in exchange for drugs. My friends husband will then go to Best Buy, and on his Best Buy credit card purchase $1,000 worth of speakers and junk which he will then trade for drugs. Twisted, I know. Her husband has racked up pretty substainal debt at this point...however, my friend will not be held responsible for this debt. I''m not sure as to the legal reasoning behind it--but clearly, his drug habit was his and his alone.

So...be sure to investigate exactly where the money and why...you might walk away okay...
 
Date: 1/15/2009 10:56:14 AM
Author: Italiahaircolor
From what I know about divorce, and splitting debt...you may be responsible for debt that was accumulated during the marriage for the benefit of the marriage.

For example, my dear friend is currently divorcing her husband. Her husband, as it turns out, has been trading ''things'' for drugs. His dealer will give him something along the lines of a ''wish list'' of good the dealer would accept inlue of cash in exchange for drugs. My friends husband will then go to Best Buy, and on his Best Buy credit card purchase $1,000 worth of speakers and junk which he will then trade for drugs. Twisted, I know. Her husband has racked up pretty substainal debt at this point...however, my friend will not be held responsible for this debt. I''m not sure as to the legal reasoning behind it--but clearly, his drug habit was his and his alone.

So...be sure to investigate exactly where the money and why...you might walk away okay...
That''s an interesting story. And I think that''s probably along the same lines. Just more legal. Because my name isn''t on his business stuff, I don''t think a court would hold me liable. But hopefully it doesn''t have to come down to battling in court over that. Or battling in court period. I hope that we can reach an agreement peacefully and quickly.
 
So I had a counseling appointment this afternoon. And it went very well. I really wish we had more than just an hour. We barely touched the surface. But I really like the guy, and he strikes me as being very understanding and perceptive. I think this will be a big help for me to sort all the things out through the past 6 1/2 years.
 
Date: 1/15/2009 6:38:31 PM
Author: joflier
So I had a counseling appointment this afternoon. And it went very well. I really wish we had more than just an hour. We barely touched the surface. But I really like the guy, and he strikes me as being very understanding and perceptive. I think this will be a big help for me to sort all the things out through the past 6 1/2 years.
redheaded GF...are you gonna take him to the cleaners?
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Hi,

I just saw this. I am sorry you are going through so much emotional distress, but it sounds like in the long run, this will work out for the best. Please don''t sign anything without an attorney. It sounds like you need to look out for yourself, because he does not seem to be.
 
Date: 1/14/2009 11:28:58 PM
Author: joflier
Date: 1/14/2009 2:11:08 PM

Author: Irishgrrrl

Ohhhhh, this is EXACTLY what I was thinking!!! I kept thinking, ''This JERK basically dictated the details of Jo''s wedding to her, which he had all figured out before he even proposed! I can just imagine how being married to him must have been!''
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And whatever you do, DON''T buy his sad little sob story about how everything is going to fall apart with his business if you don''t sign the divorce papers like yesterday. From what you said in your post, it sounds like he''s trying to tell you that the lenders involved in these transactions will only approve him for a loan if he is divorced. That just doesn''t happen. Lenders are usually much more inclined to DENY someone who is divorced, since there''s only one income and no potential for a second income unless/until the person gets married. In fact, I would be surprised if C didn''t give the lenders your income info in order to get approved for the loans in the first place! Definitely sounds like there''s something shady going on here.
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Jo, I know these words will sound hollow to you right now, but I think you''ll find that this divorce is one of the best things that ever happened to you. I might be way off-base here (and if so I apologize), but I think C and my XH are very similar people. My XH was extremely controlling and abusive and it took me a long time to figure out that the problems in our relationship WEREN''T MY FAULT and that I deserved so much better. Trust me when I say that YOU DESERVE BETTER TOO!!! And I know it doesn''t feel like it right now, but ''better'' IS out there. I promise. This isn''t an ending for you . . . it''s a new beginning!
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Damn, I wish I could beat him up for you!!!
paddle.gif
Hee hee. You make me laugh. Right now, I''m feeling pretty tough and mighty. We''ll see how I feel in the morning. I''m just steeling myself to ignore his sob story and just worry about myself. When I got home from work tonight, my mom and dad were already here changing the locks for me. And my mom even did the dishes (he left a mess in the kitchen from feeding his family/moving crew when he left) not that that''s anything new.......anyhow, and she brought a vacuum cleaner to clean my floors. (he took the one we had, and I don''t know that I''ve ever even seen him use a vacuum before). Actually, I don''t know if I posted this or not, but when he moved out, we agreed that he only wanted a dresser, desk and some of his misc. items. Well, he took the majority of everything. I still have my bed and the couches and kitchen table. But not much more. He even took one of my erings and wedding bands. Well, that''s how the cookie rolls I guess.

And I agree wholeheartedly, that this is going to be a monumental turning point in my life. For the good!
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I''m so glad that your family is helping to support you during this difficult time - it sounds like your mom and dad are lovely and are behind you 100%
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Date: 1/15/2009 6:56:06 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
redheaded GF...are you gonna take him to the cleaners?
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LOL! Should I?
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Date: 1/15/2009 7:04:30 PM
Author: joflier

Date: 1/15/2009 6:56:06 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
redheaded GF...are you gonna take him to the cleaners?
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LOL! Should I?
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In my opinion, he deserves it!

(Glad you had a good appointment today and that your parents are there for you!)
 
Date: 1/14/2009 5:09:38 PM
Author: laurel25

Jo - I''m so sorry to hear you''re going through this. I went through a terrible, gut-wrenching divorce 4 years ago and I know how much you must be hurting. I was in a slightly similar position to you (only a bit more positive) where people kept saying how well I was holding up and how stong I was, and all I could think was how if they only knew about the hole in my heart that physically hurt and how I felt like I''d never get over it, they might not say those things. I''m very private with my non-happy emotions and couldn''t imagine walking around letting all my depression, anger, and sadness out for everyone to see, but to others that appeared that I was ''strong''. I thought of it more as a defense mechanism - if I didn''t do that, I would have been a constant, blubbering mess.

Anyway, please don''t do anything with the divorce until you''ve talked to your lawyer. Don''t let him off the hook for anything - even if it means getting things settled quicker. That''s what I did and I regret it to this day - he got the house, 2 cars, all the furniture, everything. I got my clothes, my 13'' tv from college, my pre-marriage possesions, my dishes, and my down comforter - that''s it. I should have taken more, but I was trying to make things easy and quick and it was completely stupid of me.

If you need to talk ever, I''m available. I know it seems like your whole world is turned upside down, but it will get better over time. My only piece of advice is to really take your time, don''t jump into ANYTHING post-divorce too quickly - whether it''s a new job, a new house, or a new relationship. Take your time to learn who YOU are and what you like and want out of life on your own. Live life for yourself and be selfish for a while.
I''m sorry to hear about your divorce, Laurel. I appreciate you sharing a bit of your story. And that''s what I''m trying not to do. Rush things, just to get it done with. I mean, yes I do want it to be done, but I don''t want to screw myself, either. Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Joflier, sending you a giant hug and good thought and encouragement!
 
Hi, Jo!
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Just checking in to see how you''re doing. I''m glad your counseling appointment went so well! I think it''s wonderful that you''re going to counseling . . . that is a BIG step in the right direction for you!
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Now, it''s Friday morning, and you''re probably meeting with your attorney pretty soon. You just BETTER get on here and tell us how it goes, young lady!!!
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::HUGS::

Good luck this morning. I hope everything goes well with the lawyer!!
 
Hmmm, time zones...you are in WI, OK, so you are getting ready to meet with your lawyer. Good Luck! We are all pulling for you! (love the Verizon posse comparison!) You have so much life in front of you, this is going to be a hard chapter to get through, but you are so much wiser for it. Take care of yourself, awesome that you found a good counselor.
Hugs!
 
Good morning, Joflier. Just wanted to let you know that we are thinking of you this morning and sending you good vibes for your meeting with your attorney. We''re with you, girl!

Many hugs(((((())))))
 
Jof,

Thinking of you and feeling for your situation.
Don''t let this define who you really are....
This too shall pass and I''m sure you''ll be better off for it.

Best,
 
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