PS Mommy Thread-Newborn to 12 months!

[fieryred33143]

Date: 5/4/2010 9:30:17 AM
Author: taovandel
We have a tooth!!!! It''s officially broken through! Made me happy and sad at the same time....he''s getting so big now!

Aw yay!

 

[vizsla]

our nighty night update:
it was meh and ok.

i do, to some degree, agree that the dude needs to learn to sleep w/out intervention. but i'm also against any full blown CIO. what doesn't make sense to me is that i AM doing the techniques described for many 'no-cry' options. pat, shuush, P/U when he gets really upset... this, in theory, is supposed to work just as well, if not better than CIO. it may take longer, but will accomplish the same goal.
why then is it wrong to use those techniques i.e. this is not teaching them to self soothe? just a question... a real question and not a smart alec question. i really do wonder what the difference is?

and more about our night...

c was asleep for about 50 mins before he woke up - clearly confused as to where he was (totally understandable.) i went in, patted, shuushed - he fell back asleep. woke up about 15 mins later - this time DH went in and picked him up

which ticked C off.
i gave DH about 10 mins before i went in and took over. calmed C down, put him back in the crib.

i then decided i wanted to cut C off at the pass for the rest of the night before he worked himself into a tizzy. i grabbed some pillows and a blanket

. i probably got up from the floor under his crib 2 or 3 times to soothe C b/t 9 and 11:30p. it was clear at 11:30 he wanted to eat so i fed him (6oz). back in the crib.
again, i probably got up another 3 times to soothe him back to sleep b/t 12-2:30a. i know i fell asleep for a good chunk of time. but even MY body - at this point - is used to getting up at 2:30a to feed the dude. so when i woke up (and C was still asleep) i crawled into bed. about 45mins later C woke up and DH fed him. DH put him back in the crib and patted/shhuushed him for about 30mins. at 5:30 (his 'normal' wake up time) he started to cry. at that point i grabbed him and pulled him into bed w/us. he slept until 6:30a.

i'm not going to say this was a successful night (ahem - i slept on the floor in his room 1/2 the night). but i also don't think he has any negative association with his crib after his first full night in there. i do think that he (ha!) slept better w/out DH and i rolling around - or maybe i slept better (on the floor!) b/c i didn't feel him roll around???

i don't know. but i think if we keep at it, and i continue to reassure him that the crib is an OK place to sleep we will make progress. i'm planning on doing a little less each night - but this may take a month to fully get things where i would like them. i'm not planning on cutting out any feedings right now. i'd like to just cut out the time spent soothing b/t feedings.

and in my 'of course this would happen to me' thought process - why is it that the people who are willing to do CIO typically have babies who just 'sleep' w/out the need for it? and people who don't choose CIO get the babies who don't know how to sleep? i found that irony funny

aaaaaannnnnnddddd since pears are on the least allergenic list we tried some with oatmeal this morning. he loved it! now we wait.....

hello everyone! gonna catch up on my email and i'll be back

 

[steph72276]

Good morning. Just taking a minute before I start cleaning again....I''m almost halfway done, all I have left to do are the bedrooms, but I''m sure my closet alone will take a full day considering I still have about 4 sizes of clothes (including maternity still) that I need to clean out and organize. I''m also helping my friend that had a baby yesterday take her son back and forth to school so I''m a busy bee again! Hope everyone is having a great day!

Fiery, Miss Attitude is still so cute! Glad everything was okay yesterday.

Mandi, my only tip is that I just start in one room and don''t move on until that room is completely finished. So it is probably going to take me a good 2 weeks to get everything cleaned and organized, but at least it will be done. I think there is a list on Real Simple''s website, but I do everything like wash walls, baseboards, doors, windows, steam clean carpets, clean grout, fans, dust, mop, and organize everything. I try to do all the extra stuff every 6 months so it''s not that bad.

Sabine, sorry about the doc not knowing about the allergic reaction. I have some pretty severe food allergies myself and it was hard to figure out what was causing it, even with the allergy tests I did. I pretty much had to do an elimination diet to figure it out myself....it is pretty easy to do that when they''re not eating much yet. It could most certainly be the berries or a food coloring, as these are both common allergies.

Amber, I agree with everyone else. You are NOT a bad wife. We all go through a period after a baby where we are so overwhelmed with things that your DH sometimes gets pushed to the bottom of the priority list. It does get better and easier when they get older. I''m sure he understands, but at the same time I bet he would appreciate any effort you put into showing him affection. I make myself make an effort to be affectionate and spend some alone time with my husband because I know how left out he felt after our first baby. It''s a major change for both partners adding in another person, and it''s something that takes a while to adjust to, but things seem to go back to normal after that first year or so. Hugs.

Viz, hope things went well last night.

CC, yay for O liking avacado and glad you had fun with your mom.

Kim, good luck starting back to work. Sounds like the perfect job where you can choose your own schedule, I would love to do something like that!

Mara, I''m sure J would do fine on a trip...we are driving to see family next month and to do a baby shower for my sis-in-law. It''s an 8 hour drive, yikes! We''ll see how it goes....we''re thinking of leaving in the middle of the night so they''ll sleep!

Tao, yea for a tooth!

PG, I would be a little concerned too about the extra job, but unfortunately daycare workers don''t get paid well at all so she probably has to do it to make ends meet. (I did this in college for a bit before becoming a nanny and making more, and it was min. wage

)

DRK, yay, sounds like you guys are doing really well!

CDT, thanks for the book link

 

[fieryred33143]

Date: 5/4/2010 9:58:45 AM
Author: vizsla
our nighty night update:
it was meh and ok.

i do, to some degree, agree that the dude needs to learn to sleep w/out intervention. but i''m also against any full blown CIO. what doesn''t make sense to me is that i AM doing the techniques described for many ''no-cry'' options. pat, shuush, P/U when he gets really upset... this, in theory, is supposed to work just as well, if not better than CIO. it may take longer, but will accomplish the same goal.
why then is it wrong to use those techniques i.e. this is not teaching them to self soothe? just a question... a real question and not a smart alec question. i really do wonder what the difference is?

I think the concept of self soothing is so that if he wakes up overnight, he has developed his own ways of getting himself back to sleep without needing you or DH to go in to help him through patting/shushing.

Most of what you believe depends on your own parenting style and which methods speaks to you. In some books, they tell you go to in to the room and do everything you are doing to get them to learn to sleep on their own. In other books, those processes are considered crutches. All sleep books have the same goals: getting baby to sleep. In the end, it depends on what you feel is best for your family.

I agree that if C learns that the crib is a good place to sleep, it''ll be easier. And I do think not feeling/hearing the baby move around as much really helps with night time sleeping. Sophia never really slept in bed with us. There was a period when I returned to work that at 3am, FI would move to the living room and she would sleep in bed with me but that lasted a week or two. When she was in the room with us she could hear every time we moved around and sometimes she would wake up. Or I would make a bunch of noise going to check on her every time she would grunt or move around. There were many instances when she would start grunting and I would take that as a sign that she needed to be soothed/fed and would wake her up even though she was just making sleep noises. Moving her to her own room was a good decision for us because I stopped hearing all of those little sounds she makes.

 

[E B]

Amber- Big hugs. You're a great mother and wife, and I'm sure Paul understands how tough it is the first six months (and heck, even after!). It's a lot to juggle.

phoenix- Hmmm...that'd concern me too. No words of advice, I just hope she's got plenty of energy!

Mara- Solids aren't necessary at 6 months. I think the saying goes "Under one, just for fun."

We introduced them pretty slowly and there are still a lot of things Henry hasn't had.

Fiery- Hug, by Jez Alborough is one of Henry's favorites.

drk- That sounds great! Glad the weight gain is steady.

taovandel- Congratulations to Evan on his first tooth!

viz- It sounds like you're making great progress with C. I think that once he gets used to his crib, he'll sleep more deeply since he won't be woken by your and your husband's movements. I know Henry does, and we do too.

steph- Will you share your supermom secrets with me? I need to do a ton of laundry today. I'll finish it eventually (by about 10 pm tonight).

Funny story: We were at Old Navy this weekend taking advantage of the 30 percent off sale. I was doing the purchasing, and my husband was carrying Henry around. They went to look at the mannequins, and Henry pulls the lady mannequin's tank top away from her chest so he could peer in and check out the goods!

This kid is a nurse-a-holic.

 

[steph72276]

Haha, EB...I'm not even close to being supermom! I just try to do what I can while the baby is sleeping or have him on a playmat listening to music and playing with his brother while I clean. I actually think it's easier with 2 because they can entertain each other (with supervision of course!) Oh and lots of coffee helps too

. And that is so funny about him pulling the mannequin's shirt down!

 

[luvinlife]

Fiery

I know you hear this all.the.time....but...one more time won''t hurt.

Your Sophia is beautiful

 

[ChinaCat]

Fiery- I have so many books for O we need more bookshelves! One of our showers the hosts put on the invite to bring a book for O instead of a card. It was awesome, such a great idea if any of you are ever hosting a shower. I never buy books, but my mom gets us new ones all the time. That link is great. I would just add that O is obsessed with "IS YOUR MAMA A LLAMA?" . He loves all books, especially the Sandra Boynton ones, but the Mama/LLama book is guaranteed to mesmerize him. I also now have it memorized and so I will start saying it to him when he''s in the car and fussy and I can''t reach him and more times than not it calms him down.

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Mama-Llama-Deborah-Guarino/dp/0590259385

Oh and THIS one makes me cry, it''s so beautiful. I give it as gifts. It''s called On The Night You Were Born. I have a big pretty hardcover version, but I found a board book version that O can chew on.
http://www.amazon.com/Night-You-Were-Born/dp/0976576104

Viz- Ok, I think you need to come with some goals. First, talk to your ped on Friday. Tell him exactly how much C is getting up and tell him you WANT C to sleep better and see if he has any suggestions. Don''t let him tell you it''s normal- it''s not. Of course all babies get up, but C (and you) NEED more sleep. Second- work on getting him into his crib. This will make a huge difference, I promise. Third- Cut down the feedings. He really doesn''t NEED to eat that many times a night. I won''t say he doesn''t need to eat at night at all, but I think you can safely cut it down to once a night. I know Daisy still eats a lot at night, but she also doesn''t wake Pandora up when she nurses, which I think is a huge difference. Fourth- You need to think of this as a GIFT you are giving to Charlie. He needs to sleep, he needs to be able to self-soothe. He needs a mom that isn''t so sleep-deprived. If you think of it as something GOOD for him, maybe it will be easier to make the tough calls. Now I know you don''t believe in full CIO but I think even the "gentler" approaches allow SOME CIO. It''s just managed and in increments. But C is going to fight this, he is used to you picking him up and soothing him at first whimper. But he WILL get this. My BFF had very similiar issues to you and C and she finally went to a sleep doctor and sleep trained her daughter at 6 months. It took 3 nights of hell (she did a modified CIO, where she gradually increased the amount of time she let her cry) and then DONE. She said it was the best thing she ever did. You CAN do this. I know it''s hard in the middle of the night but that''s why you need to form a plan before and STICK TO IT. Consistency, consistency, consistency. No matter what method you choose, you have to be consistent.

Food- Viz and Mara- Include me in the camp of not being in a hurry to feed O solids and also feeling overwhelmed by how to go about it. I really wanted to cook his food myself and finally I got over it and bought some organic jar baby food and just went for it one day. It was fun!!!! And this is the good part about having a nanny- once I introduced something, then she took over feeding him everyday. I started with green veggies (peas and green beans), then I did orange food (carrots and sweet potatoes) and then fruits. But EB is right, they don''t NEED food before a year so don''t feel the urge to rush.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 9:58:45 AM
Author: vizsla
our nighty night update:
it was meh and ok.

i do, to some degree, agree that the dude needs to learn to sleep w/out intervention. but i''m also against any full blown CIO. what doesn''t make sense to me is that i AM doing the techniques described for many ''no-cry'' options. pat, shuush, P/U when he gets really upset... this, in theory, is supposed to work just as well, if not better than CIO. it may take longer, but will accomplish the same goal.
why then is it wrong to use those techniques i.e. this is not teaching them to self soothe? just a question... a real question and not a smart alec question. i really do wonder what the difference is?

Well, in theory, yes, but whose theory? Just from basically psychology I would think that it could make it worse. But since I know of a friend who used it to success (took two weeks), I''m sure it can work.

My answer to your question Viz, would be maybe you don''t have a baby who doesn''t respond well to it? Just like CIO is not for some babies, I wonder if your baby only will get more agitated at some of those no cry techniques? I''m not being tongue in cheek here either...I really wonder about this kind of stuff. If we were to take a baby and make him CIO and it didn''t work, most people would think it doesn''t make sense to continue...shouldn''t the same be true for babies with different techniques? Or do we just sort of gloss over the fact that it''s not working because it seems more gentle when it is still, bottom line, upsetting the child.

I do believe that every child is different. It''s been interesting watch my friend with the triplets...2 babies are fairly easygoing and one is a screaming, angry baby. Nurture at this point probably has to do with some part of him needing to be held ALL the time, but it could be also that he''s more sickly. Even in the womb, he was on the bottom, squished by the other two. He came out looking battered and bruised, with not an ounce of hair on his head or face and was the smallest of the three. The other two looked healthier and had hair and eyebrows. I just wonder his experience in the womb made him an upset baby and more needy by nature. Leave him alone for FIVE minutes (even put down while sleep) and alarm bells go off in this kid''s head...he wants his mom, stat. And the more they come soothe him, the worse his demands get.

As to your question (which I think was given with a tongue in cheek smile) on why people who CIO typically have babies who just sleep vs the ones who don''t - in my experience (just in my circle of friends, so not scientific), the ones who would do CIO tend to be more structured and steely in enforcing it, thereby conditioning the baby along the way. They drive, as much as possible, the environment/schedule for the baby and not the other way around. Sleep is something from day one they are kind of obsessed about and don''t think a baby is too young to start conditioning even at a very young age.

You said something once that I found interesting, but didn''t comment at the time. You said you might be in the minority, but you believe you have children to adapt your life around them, and not the other way around. This is exactly how I felt about having kids, and yet I''m pro CIO and big time scheduling. I guess because I really had to change my own life around to make sure my kid napped at the same time every day in her crib and got to bed at the same early time every day. Our lives still entirely revolve around her schedule and needs, but that does not mean the child rules the roost. I see that a lot of pro CIO parents have that mentality...the kid not ruling the roost thing, and therefore aren''t big proponents of going in everytime the kid needs to be soothed. However, this doesn''t mean that every CIO parent is like this...I know a few where the kid DEFINITELY rules the roost!

But, as I said with my triplets anecdote above...there MUST be some nature component in it as well. It''s such a mystery, isn''t it?

I hope things get better for you.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 11:21:15 AM

Food- Viz and Mara- Include me in the camp of not being in a hurry to feed O solids and also feeling overwhelmed by how to go about it. I really wanted to cook his food myself and finally I got over it and bought some organic jar baby food and just went for it one day. It was fun!!!! And this is the good part about having a nanny- once I introduced something, then she took over feeding him everyday. I started with green veggies (peas and green beans), then I did orange food (carrots and sweet potatoes) and then fruits. But EB is right, they don''t NEED food before a year so don''t feel the urge to rush.

I man moms want to try solids before a year for a change of pace. Tired of just giving the breast (or yick, bottles because cleaning one less bottle sounds great!), they go for it because it''s fun. Then you start have to give them solids and you wish you were back to the days of just BM or formula because it was SO easy. Hehehe.

I still hate the chore of feeding my kid. May you all be blessed with wonderful, enthusiastic eaters!!!

 

[vizsla]

crap cc you got me all crying and stuff.
i know it''s not normal... and i know that i''m going to have to do something i''m really dreading. in a round about way my thought is that i don''t want to dump new crib, cry to sleep, no paci etc. all at once... so if i get him ''used'' to his crib this week and the pedi says CIO.......

well....

and just so it doesn''t sound like i''m all over the place... i am very consistent when it comes to our nighttime routine.. it''s the reason he doesn''t fight going to sleep.. he knows what the deal is. and he didn''t fight going down in the crib, he didn''t cry.... he also goes right back to sleep when he''s patted on the bum etc... i''ve been consistent in how i deal with him when he wakes up.....

he just doesn''t *stay* asleep.... and that is the issue...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 11:47:19 AM
Author: vizsla
crap cc you got me all crying and stuff.
i know it''s not normal... and i know that i''m going to have to do something i''m really dreading. in a round about way my thought is that i don''t want to dump new crib, cry to sleep, no paci etc. all at once... so if i get him ''used'' to his crib this week and the pedi says CIO.......

well....

and just so it doesn''t sound like i''m all over the place... i am very consistent when it comes to our nighttime routine.. it''s the reason he doesn''t fight going to sleep.. he knows what the deal is. and he didn''t fight going down in the crib, he didn''t cry.... he also goes right back to sleep when he''s patted on the bum etc... i''ve been consistent in how i deal with him when he wakes up.....

he just doesn''t *stay* asleep.... and that is the issue...

Aw Viz, don''t cry! You''ll get through this. I just think everyone here just wants you to have more rest. It''s so not a fun place to be (sleep deprivation.)

 

[ChinaCat]

Viz- There's no CRYING in the newborn thread!

Ok well hope I didn't make you feel bad, I was going for support as in, telling you it's not normal so that you can find hope that you can change things and make it better! I didn't mean "not normal" as in you are doing something wrong. AT ALL. I told you my BFF's kid was just like this and she is like the MOST amazing mom. I think when you have a baby that has some health issues, it's hard to separate the line b/w wanting to soothe and comfort and being able to take a step back and do something that is good for them but hard to do. And we are all guilty of this (well maybe not TGal

). For example, O woke up last night at 3 am crying. Now I *know* he was fine, not sick, not teething, and I really *should* be tougher and let him cry and self-soothe. BUT it's easier for me to go in, pick him up, soothe him for 15-20 mins and then go back to bed. So I did. Which is just prolonging him learning to do it himself. OTOH, O rarely does this so it isn't really causing a problem. If O started doing this every night, I think I would have to get tough out of desperation. So it's not like I think it's EASY. At all. I think what you are facing is one of the hardest parts of being a mom (you know, after the recovery and the breastfeeding and the mastitis and the ear infections

). But I think you are getting to a point where you need to do something. C is 6 months which I think is a good time to start trying some stuff. Also, I should have been clearer- I absolutely think you should do those things one at a time!!!!!! So I meant- first focus on getting him to sleep in the crib. THEN when he seems comfortable with that, then try weaning the feedings (one at a time). I SO DON'T recommend doing all of that at once!!!! He's a baby, he needs baby steps.

As do the moms.

ETA: Hugs Viz, you know I'm on your side!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 12:17:52 PM
Author: ChinaCat
Viz- There's no CRYING in the newborn thread!

Ok well hope I didn't make you feel bad, I was going for support as in, telling you it's not normal so that you can find hope that you can change things and make it better! I didn't mean 'not normal' as in you are doing something wrong. AT ALL. I told you my BFF's kid was just like this and she is like the MOST amazing mom. I think when you have a baby that has some health issues, it's hard to separate the line b/w wanting to soothe and comfort and being able to take a step back and do something that is good for them but hard to do. And we are all guilty of this (well maybe not TGal

). For example, O woke up last night at 3 am crying. Now I *know* he was fine, not sick, not teething, and I really *should* be tougher and let him cry and self-soothe. BUT it's easier for me to go in, pick him up, soothe him for 15-20 mins and then go back to bed. So I did. Which is just prolonging him learning to do it himself. OTOH, O rarely does this so it isn't really causing a problem. If O started doing this every night, I think I would have to get tough out of desperation. So it's not like I think it's EASY. At all. I think what you are facing is one of the hardest parts of being a mom (you know, after the recovery and the breastfeeding and the mastitis and the ear infections

). But I think you are getting to a point where you need to do something. C is 6 months which I think is a good time to start trying some stuff. Also, I should have been clearer- I absolutely think you should do those things one at a time!!!!!! So I meant- first focus on getting him to sleep in the crib. THEN when he seems comfortable with that, then try weaning the feedings (one at a time). I SO DON'T recommend doing all of that at once!!!! He's a baby, he needs baby steps.

As do the moms.

ETA: Hugs Viz, you know I'm on your side!

Riiiiiiiiiight, because I'm a robot....

ETA, FWIW, if the child generally sleeps fine, then wakes up crying, of course I think you should soothe. Amelia does this from time to time...wakes up screaming for whatever reason. I don't even wait a minute. I go in, hold her for as long as it takes to calm down (which usually isn't long because she just needed me) and then put her back down. It doesn't teach her that I'm going to run in if she's unhappy because she generally knows how to self soothe.

 

[steph72276]

Viz, also with ear infections, nightime is often the most painful for them because the are flat. Does he sleep in a swing for his naps at daycare? Have you tried inclining his crib?

ETA: didn't you say he's had 5 already? What does your ped say about the frequency? I personally think if the ear infection issue was solved, the sleeping issue would be solved.

 

[ChinaCat]

Aww TGal, just teasing you. Don''t ruin your reputation!!!! We need a tough role model around here. That makes me feel better though. I do wonder where that line is these days as he''s getting really bratty about being paid attention to, i.e., throwing temper tantrums and crying if you leave him alone for even a second. He''s ok as long as I am "looking" at him.

 

[TravelingGal]

Steph, the ear infection sounds key to me too. My friend's triplet has sinus issues and had them very early on. I wonder if that's why he wakes up when flat. He is totally happy when upright and carried.

Chinacat, what reputation?

I may be strict, but I'm a mother who loves her child too yanno...and that means a hurting heart WHENEVER my child cries, for ANY reason. Even when she's throwing a stupid tanty, my heart just breaks because she's just not happy for whatever reason. That's why I always say be careful what battles you pick, because when you do, you have to win them. I don't pick every battle, because sometimes, I just don't want to see my child upset, even if it's not the best thing for them. (eating comes to mind.)

And we all make mistakes along the way. When Amelia was younger, she woke up one night screaming. I went in and tried to soothe her and as long as she was in my arms she was fine. As soon as I put her down, she was screaming. I picked her up again a few times to soothe, but as soon as I put her down, she screamed. Finally I concluded that there wasn't anything I could do and she would just cry herself out. I went back in later to check on her (because she did stop crying pretty fast) only to discover she was sleeping in a pool of vomit. Not spit up vomit, but vile, stenchfilled, something is really wrong with her tummy vomit.

I cannot express how guilty I felt and what I failure I felt like as a mother. How could I have not known my child was ill? It was the first time she was sick like that and I couldn't figure it out and I wasn't there to soothe her. I would have been so happy if she had just thrown up on me and I sent her to bed clean and feeling better. From then on, I figured if she was crying, she wasn't well or just needed something and I'd be there for her.

So I did that the next night, and had the nice opportunity to get thrown up on...twice.

 

[fieryred33143]

I just had the greatest mac-n-cheese ever. My tummy is really happy right now. LOL

Anyway

Viz, I agree that consistency is key. I think you have a great bedtime routine set. The new routine has to be set for when he wakes up. If you want to pat and shush, then every day when he wakes up you pat and shush. If you pat and shush when he goes down and 15 mins later when he wakes you pick him up, well being held by mommy is way better than just having mommy''s hand on him so he''s going to wait for you to pick him up, KWIM?

And whatever you feel is the right method that doesn''t interfere with your sleep IS the right method. We talked about bad habits on here before. It''s only a bad habit if it doesn''t work for you. Rocking is considered by some to be a bad habit but you know what, I put Sophia to sleep like this sometimes and it doesn''t bother me at all. I don''t get 24 hours a day with her, I don''t even get 4 on a weeknight. Heck, some nights I get 45 minutes. If I have to rock her, that''s ok with me. I justify it as extra snuggling time that I don''t get throughout the day.

 

[vizsla]

no no no.. i *totally* know you are on my side.... i was crying because what i think is the right thing to do just doesn't seem like the "right thing for C". i was crying because in my heart i know i'm being a good mom and i *WANT* him to be comfortable and secure - knowing that i will always be there for him when he cries. but c's actions at night make it *seem* like he's not secure. the CIO option - while it may work - completely goes against what i think of when i think security & safety. i trust myself totally when it comes to making decisions on his behalf.. but this??? i just don't understand why it's not working.

i get so jealous of the moms who have babies that just started sleeping longer and longer ... secretly i've been waiting for this gradual increase. and while he may go 5 hours b/t feedings.. he's certainty not staying asleep that entire time. he's NEVER slept longer than 3 hours.. ever
never


i do think his ear infections have played a huge roll in his inability to sleep.
from the get go he has had issues that have hindered him from ever being totally comfortable. (with my BF issues aside - that was just an added bonus first we dealt w/ MSPI that tore him up and made him extremely uncomfortable. then we had the reflux/gas issue - and when that finally got under control he started in with the constant ear infections and colds. the pedi mentioned if the infection had been in the other ear this time she would talk to us about tubes - but the ears flip flop.
a neighbor of mine is a retired ENT professor/doctor. i talked to him extensively about c's ears. he explained that any redness of the eardrum is typically called out to parents as an 'infection'. but that babies eardrums get infected/red all of the time due to their anatomy - most of the time it's the child's disposition that determines how they will react to the "infection". obviously there are more severe infections.

but i'm always weighing the risk of constantly having him on an antibiotic/drug - and the repercussions these antibiotics have on his system vs. ear pain for a day or two (as mild cases typically resolve themselves w/in a few days). the pedi always gives us the option of antibiotic or waiting it out... we have always chose the antibiotic - but i don't know at what cost? he gets terrible diaper rash and it's really hard on his already sensitive stomach.

at this point i can tell when he is not feeling well vs. being ticked he's not sleeping. he won't let me put him down when he's in real pain...


and to end on a happy note:
i've been forcing myself to the gym tues and thurs to work out with my trainer. before getting KU i could do 20 regular pushups... my first workout after baby i could do only 1 'girl' push up... i did 5 regular push ups today!!!

ETA: fiery i agree.. if it took some rocking to sleep i wouldn't care i love me a C snuggle!!!
however, i do think that i'm getting to the point where i am either going to have to quit working or figure out how to get c to sleep longer

(OK, the quitting was in jest) but something does need to change. i am just always.so.tired. i hate being so focused on sleep... but something has got to give. i do still believe the ability to sleep is developmental - and he's just not there yet... but OTOH even if he got up to eat 2x a night he should be able to sleep in between those feedings, KWIM?

 

[Mara]

My confession from last Friday... I let my kid cry. There are times when he just wants too much from me and I can''t give it. And I don''t believe crying hurts them at all.

I read an article when J was 4 weeks old and really fussy. I almost want to say it was from the same guy who wrote that HHSHC book, it''s called Fussy Babies or something like that. It''s online if anyone wants to find it. It was the first chapter. Anyway there was an excerpt from the book online.

It said something like... crying does not mean the baby is DEFINITELY in distress. It is their ONLY way to communicate. So don''t just assume that because your kid is crying that it''s unhappy, or hurt or in pain or SAD. We tend to give our own emotions to the babies. They are BABIES, half the time they don''t experience the same emotions that we do and definitely not so young. Parents (and GParents, hello!) tend to think OMG kid is crying, everyone rush over and freak out because he''s soooo sad we left him alone. Wrong.

Do I know when my kid is angry? Yep.
Do I know when he''s in pain? Yep.
Do I know when he''s just fussing? Yep.
Do I know when he''s hungry? Yep.
Do I know when he''s just squeaking in his sleep? Yep.

I can recognize all his diff cries, mannerisms, motions. I know when I put him down because I have to pee and he isn''t having it that he''s SIMPLY pissed off that he''s being LEFT in some g''damned boppy with a limited view of portia''s butt... when he really wants to be on my shoulder or in my lap bouncing so he can jump on my legs.

It''s those times when I have no issue letting him cry while I pee, then fix myself lunch, then write an email....because hello we can''t always have what we want HAHAA...AND I dont intend for my life to be ruled by some cute little 13lber who wants me to hold him all the time. I spend most of my day catering to him anyway, he can chill for 10 min on his own. What does holding him give him? Nothing at that point but letting him know ''ok I cry because I hate being put down to self-entertain and she picks me up''.

I also sometimes just put him in his crib if he is being a pill and nothing seems to work...and let him hang out and cry at the tree on the wall if he wants to. He''s changed, he''s fed, he''s played with and he''s just fussy. Maybe he wants some ''alone time''. Sometimes he will fall asleep.

I would not do CIO if J was in pain or hurt or sick or anything like that. In fact at night when he is sleeping soundly and I hear a big cry from his room I rush in immediately, I don''t even wait to see what''s happening. Because that ISNT his pattern, so I''m afraid something is wrong. But if we were putting him down and he was waking up every hour? I''d let him cry for a while. What does he REALLY need at that point? Diaper is changed, he''s fed, he''s warm, he''s cozy. I don''t believe that he needs me to put him to sleep, I''ve seen him do it himself many times, so I know it''s POSSIBLE.

And Viz..you say that C goes down easily for bed the first time. That tells me he knows the drill and he can put himself to sleep. So he should be able to do it again for himself the rest of the night. I understand if he has an ear infection or is sick, but when he is healthy, he seems to have those skills so you should making him use them.

You also said he got upset when your husband picked him up. To TG''s point, maybe he doesn''t want to be picked up and soothed? My own personality, I don''t like being soothed or cossetted and never have been. Now I''m not a 3 or 6 month old but I can''t imagine always being soothed is soothing?

I guess the bottom line for me if I were in your situ, Viz, would be that what I was doing WASN''T working. So I would need to try something else and be consistent with it and see. WHAT...not quite sure. I think crib is a good first step. You can also put him in there to play music or other things to help give positive association.

re: Moms not being opposed to CIO having good sleepers, I was a nazi about J''s routine from day one and I have never deviated. Even if he is having a hard time going down one night, to the tune of 2-3 hours instead of the 15 min it normally takes, we just do the same thing over and over. I don''t bring him into our bed, I don''t try new things. I want the routine *I* want for him and eventually that is just what he did. Yes I thnk he just is a good sleeper too, which make it easier. No I don''t think he will NEVER regress.

IMO a huge part of parenting is how you BELIEVE. aka proponents of co-sleep. or BF. or CIO. Ff you believe that crying hurts the baby and they feel abandoned, well of course you don''t want to do it. i think it will be very hard for you to do CIO because you are so adamantly against it...buttttt if you guys patting, shusshing and picking up is not working then what else is there left to try?? maybe C really WANTS CIO. i''m saying that a little tongue in cheek but you won''t know until you try i guess?

Someone''s crying.

And has been for 5 min (low, minimal fuss cries, nothing stressful!) while I finish pumping and write this post. Back later to write more.

Oh and Viz don''t feel like you guys are doing anything WRONG. Parenting is experimental. You would never intentionally hurt your kid and CIO is not that IMO. But you guys can''t go on like this, so you have to consider more options. I really really think you should look into seeing if you have any sleep experts in your area and pay someone to come into the house to see the habits. I don''t know if you have seen this recommended 2-3 times previously... but it might highlight some areas you guys could focus on immediately.

 

[vizsla]

i have looked for a sleep expert in my area - and thus far have come up empty handed.

i totally understand the place people are coming from when they talk about CIO.
it's not like C never cries. i let him cry when i have stuff to do that doesn't involve constantly holding him. i do put him in his crib when i need a break, or his exersaucer even if he cries and drips snot everywhere.....and he cries when i put him down in the morning to pee and get ready - do my hair - put my makeup on........... but i am not comfortable letting him cry for hours at a time. 15, 20, heck 30mins.. yeah, sure.. been there done that.... 1 hour + to teach self soothing just doesn't sit well with me.
my take away is, in order for CIO to work, you have to shut the door and not go back - no matter how long it takes.
if someone could say C will only cry for 30 mins... i may not be so opposed.. but no one knows how long it's going to take. at this point that is my biggest hesitation.
and making sure he has a clean bill of health....

nothing says happy mother's day like a weekend of CIO

and yes, i was being sarcastic ...

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 1:49:35 PM
Author: Mara
My confession from last Friday... I let my kid cry. There are times when he just wants too much from me and I can''t give it. And I don''t believe crying hurts them at all.

I read an article when J was 4 weeks old and really fussy. I almost want to say it was from the same guy who wrote that HHSHC book, it''s called Fussy Babies or something like that. It''s online if anyone wants to find it. It was the first chapter. Anyway there was an excerpt from the book online.

It said something like... crying does not mean the baby is DEFINITELY in distress. It is their ONLY way to communicate. So don''t just assume that because your kid is crying that it''s unhappy, or hurt or in pain or SAD. We tend to give our own emotions to the babies. They are BABIES, half the time they don''t experience the same emotions that we do and definitely not so young. Parents (and GParents, hello!) tend to think OMG kid is crying, everyone rush over and freak out because he''s soooo sad we left him alone. Wrong.

Do I know when my kid is angry? Yep.
Do I know when he''s in pain? Yep.
Do I know when he''s just fussing? Yep.
Do I know when he''s hungry? Yep.
Do I know when he''s just squeaking in his sleep? Yep.

I can recognize all his diff cries, mannerisms, motions. I know when I put him down because I have to pee and he isn''t having it that he''s SIMPLY pissed off that he''s being LEFT in some g''damned boppy with a limited view of portia''s butt... when he really wants to be on my shoulder or in my lap bouncing so he can jump on my legs.

It''s those times when I have no issue letting him cry while I pee, then fix myself lunch, then write an email....because hello we can''t always have what we want HAHAA...AND I dont intend for my life to be ruled by some cute little 13lber who wants me to hold him all the time. I spend most of my day catering to him anyway, he can chill for 10 min on his own. What does holding him give him? Nothing at that point but letting him know ''ok I cry because I hate being put down to self-entertain and she picks me up''.

I also sometimes just put him in his crib if he is being a pill and nothing seems to work...and let him hang out and cry at the tree on the wall if he wants to. He''s changed, he''s fed, he''s played with and he''s just fussy. Maybe he wants some ''alone time''. Sometimes he will fall asleep.

I would not do CIO if J was in pain or hurt or sick or anything like that. In fact at night when he is sleeping soundly and I hear a big cry from his room I rush in immediately, I don''t even wait to see what''s happening. Because that ISNT his pattern, so I''m afraid something is wrong. But if we were putting him down and he was waking up every hour? I''d let him cry for a while. What does he REALLY need at that point? Diaper is changed, he''s fed, he''s warm, he''s cozy. I don''t believe that he needs me to put him to sleep, I''ve seen him do it himself many times, so I know it''s POSSIBLE.

And Viz..you say that C goes down easily for bed the first time. That tells me he knows the drill and he can put himself to sleep. So he should be able to do it again for himself the rest of the night. I understand if he has an ear infection or is sick, but when he is healthy, he seems to have those skills so you should making him use them.

You also said he got upset when your husband picked him up. To TG''s point, maybe he doesn''t want to be picked up and soothed? My own personality, I don''t like being soothed or cossetted and never have been. Now I''m not a 3 or 6 month old but I can''t imagine always being soothed is soothing?

I guess the bottom line for me if I were in your situ, Viz, would be that what I was doing WASN''T working. So I would need to try something else and be consistent with it and see. WHAT...not quite sure. I think crib is a good first step. You can also put him in there to play music or other things to help give positive association.

re: Moms not being opposed to CIO having good sleepers, I was a nazi about J''s routine from day one and I have never deviated. Even if he is having a hard time going down one night, to the tune of 2-3 hours instead of the 15 min it normally takes, we just do the same thing over and over. I don''t bring him into our bed, I don''t try new things. I want the routine *I* want for him and eventually that is just what he did. Yes I thnk he just is a good sleeper too, which make it easier. No I don''t think he will NEVER regress.

IMO a huge part of parenting is how you BELIEVE. aka proponents of co-sleep. or BF. or CIO. Ff you believe that crying hurts the baby and they feel abandoned, well of course you don''t want to do it. i think it will be very hard for you to do CIO because you are so adamantly against it...buttttt if you guys patting, shusshing and picking up is not working then what else is there left to try?? maybe C really WANTS CIO. i''m saying that a little tongue in cheek but you won''t know until you try i guess?

Someone''s crying.

And has been for 5 min (low, minimal fuss cries, nothing stressful!) while I finish pumping and write this post. Back later to write more.

Oh and Viz don''t feel like you guys are doing anything WRONG. Parenting is experimental. You would never intentionally hurt your kid and CIO is not that IMO. But you guys can''t go on like this, so you have to consider more options. I really really think you should look into seeing if you have any sleep experts in your area and pay someone to come into the house to see the habits. I don''t know if you have seen this recommended 2-3 times previously... but it might highlight some areas you guys could focus on immediately.

Just to clarify, I wasn''t saying he doesn''t want to be picked up and held...but that maybe it wouldn''t work at a soothing tactic over the long run (extinguishing the crying and producing more sleep) because he may be a kid who learns the more he cries, the more she comes. For other kids, it seems to work.

Oh, and Mara, I thought all knew all those things too, but guess I didn''t because she slept in her vomit.

 

[NovemberBride]

Viz, I wish I had some great advice for you, but I don''t. I think you and I have very similar parenting philosophies. Olivia gets up 2-3x''s a night, almost every night (11, 2 and 5). The difference that makes it bearable for me is that she gets up, eats for 10 min. and goes right back to sleep until the next feeding, so I am still getting a decent amount of sleep, just broken up a little bit. She probably doesn''t NEED to eat all those times and I know that I could probably get her to give up one or more of those feedings, on the other hand, she is still mostly EBF (1 bottle of formula a day) and only 14.5 lbs at 6 months and I honestly believe she is hungry because as soon as I give her the boob she eats hungrily and then falls right back asleep, so I am not motivated to do so. And honestly, if she were having the same troubles sleeping as C, I''d be doing the same thing you are. I just don''t have it in me to do CIO, so I get where you are coming from.

Disclaimer - the next sentence is my own personal feelings and not a judgment on anyone who feels differently - I am a huge proponent of to each his/her own. I don''t do CIO because I feel that it is something selfish I am doing for myself, not for Olivia''s benefit. In my heart, I believe that it is better for her for me to pick her up when she cries, so I do it every time. I feel like it''s what I signed up for when I became a mom. I am sure that there is a little bit of working mommy guilt that plays into this as well. I fully realize that this means that some days i never have a chance to post on here, or return an email from a friend, because if Olivia is crying while I am doing anything non-essential, I will stop what I am doing to pick her up. I just wanted to let you know that you aren''t alone in not wanting to do CIO, I know a lot of people have been posting who believe in CIO (which is totally fine if it works for them), but it is not the answer for everyone.

All that said, my situation is working for me, but it is obvious that yours isn''t working for you. Since you don''t seem to want to do CIO, maybe take Mara''s suggestion of hiring a sleep consultant. If you know you don''t want to do CIO, make sure you find someone who shares your philosophy on that.

 

[NovemberBride]

ETA - in case anyone who reads the post above thinks I am a wimp and pushover because I don''t let me kid cry, that couldn''t be farther from the truth. I actually have a reputation in my personal and professional life as a tell-it-like-it-is, no nonsense, not to be crossed kind of person. I can''t explain it, but when it comes to my kid and my dog I just choose to put their comfort before mine, even when it comes to things that wouldn''t really harm them (i.e. CIO). DH always says I am nicer to the dog than 95% of the people I know and he is right.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 5/4/2010 3:05:55 PM
Author: NovemberBride
ETA - in case anyone who reads the post above thinks I am a wimp and pushover because I don''t let me kid cry, that couldn''t be farther from the truth. I actually have a reputation in my personal and professional life as a tell-it-like-it-is, no nonsense, not to be crossed kind of person. I can''t explain it, but when it comes to my kid and my dog I just choose to put their comfort before mine, even when it comes to things that wouldn''t really harm them (i.e. CIO). DH always says I am nicer to the dog than 95% of the people I know and he is right.

I''m not sure why anyone would think that. It''s just different parenting styles. If you consistently go to your kid when your kid cries and you are consistently fine with doing it and your kid is consistently happy because he gets what she needs, what''s the issue?

It''s just a fundamental perception of comfort. If you believe, as Mara pointed out, that the kid is crying and sometimes it''s just as a means of communication, the kid isn''t uncomfortable then it''s no big deal. If one assumes crying always means something is wrong, then you do something about it.

Viz if your kid is one who can cry for hours at a time, CIO is probably not for that kid either (and certainly not for you.) It doesn''t have to be. I think you said here once that you don''t always need a conclusion...just need to vent once in awhile. If you want to keep the technique you are doing, who knows, it may work at some point. Babies are weird in that one day what doesn''t work might actually work the next.

I''ve seen a kid who wakes up if he''s not next to a warm body. It''s the weirdest thing. No matter how deep the sleep, he''ll wake up if someone is next to him. You gotta wonder, how does one solve an issue like that? Because it''s not the going down that''s a problem - like Viz said, it''s the waking up.

 

[vizsla]

wimp

definitely the part that is "not working" is the waking up b/t feedings. not the *actual* amount of feedings. each time he cycles out of that light/REM sleep he wakes up. i was doing a little bottom pat in my sleep when he was in our bed that would push him past the cycle (the reason we even started co-sleeping) but i realized that i slept much less b/c i was also waking up every time he grunted or flipped around. it's not that i'm opposed to co-sleeping, but i don't think it was benefiting DH and i as much as i had hoped it would.

he has been in some type of pain (stomach, ear, bowel) for so much of his little life that, i believe, he *is* used to waking up after each cycle b/c discomfort/pain. which is why i favor shuush/pat - mommy is here, you are OK. and also the reason i still hold out hope that once he is 'healthy' he will just start extending his sleeping on his own.

i really really don't want to start a CIO vs. noCIO debate.
my posts are just coming from this place that i am in right now.. after 6 months of up every hour or so it's hard to see the trees thru the forest.
buuuuuuttttt
it's also hard to keep going the way we are - thinking that this is the best thing - when sleeping has not gotten substantially better...
i guess if i take a month snapshot it is better than last??? oh heck, i don't even know anymore b/c i feel like he's been sick for the past 3 months.

ETA: tgal i guess i am venting but also wondering... OMG what IF CIO would solve our problems? and then being conflicted about even thinking that. i hate that i don't know IF it work w/ C. i would feel just soooo so so so so awful if i tried it for a few nights only to realize it wasn't working and i put C thru the very thing i don't feel comfortable doing. then again i *know* i can't do another 6 months of this... i think i'll die (and become even more dramatic

) i'm just so confused and conflicted....... like i said.. what i had confidence in, i don't anymore

 

[fieryred33143]

November-I don't think you are a wimp/pushover.

I have said I'm a fan of CIO but haven't really needed to use it on Sophia. And my confession is that I'm glad because I'm not sure if I can handle it. On the nights that I lay her down awake and say to myself that I'm going to give her 30 minutes to CIO before I go in there she either never cries or goes for about 5 minutes before calming down. I also always tell FI very sternly that he is not to go in to the room while she's trying to put herself to sleep but 5 minutes later I'm peeking through the door to check on her.

I think it works for most children and the reason why it may not work for a child is more because of the parent than the actual child. I do think that there is a point (perhaps age?) where it is extremely difficult to do CIO because they DO understand that if they cry loud enough, mom/dad WILL come in and they use that.

I don't, however, think that the babies on this thread are really capable to understand that just yet but I do think they get confused. You're here one second, then you're not, oh you're back, but now you're gone, here comes dad, now he's gone, here's mom again...all I want to do is sleep, what the heck is going on? I do think that because of that confusion, when you do CIO but go in there after a few minutes it makes it worse.

That's not to say that those solutions don't work but you have to do it ALL night. You can't decide from 7:30 until 10:30 you are going to go in at incremental times and then decide at 10:30 that you are going to stop and bring them in to bed with you or switch up the methods. The reason why those methods take longer is because you have to continue with the same pattern all night which gets exhausting and most, if not all, parents stop and switch to something else.

 

[NovemberBride]

Tgal - That was my point exactly, I guess I just wanted to reiterate that there are different parenting philosophies and that I made a conscious choice to parent the way that I do.

I feel that although everyone on this thread is generally accepting of each others'' parenting choices, there is a vocal majority in favor of CIO, which is fine if that''s what works for most people, but I just wanted Viz to know she''s not alone in not choosing that approach and that it is a fine choice (because sometimes knowing you aren''t the only one that feels a certain way is comforting in itself).

 

[TravelingGal]

Viz, I get where you''re coming from. Parenting, by nature, seems to be something where second guessing yourself is part of the process. I also get that a lot of women come on here and more "think out loud" than anything. It''s not that you really want to try CIO, but you wonder, and you write. I get that. I do that too when I come here and share. Like right now, I want to say, "I can''t do this...I think I may need to postpone preschool." I probably won''t go through with that, but boy oh boy...I''m just wondering and I could write PAGES if I wanted to write now about my inner vacillations!!!

NovemberBride, perception is funny. I guess I see the board being pretty even in terms of non CIO and CIO folks. But you''re right...it could be the VOCAL majority that is pro CIO. But I don''t think that pro-CIO people think one is a wimp because they don''t let their kids cry. I really do think it''s just a fundamental difference in beliefs, and one is not right over the other.

As fiery said, I think people put in their two cents because things are only an issue when someone isn''t happy about it. CIO is a technique that CAN work and usually mothers who use it are happy with the results. Moms just want other moms to join them in the happy place.

 

[vizsla]

no i''m looking for advice too and venting.. and being confused about both....

i want to join your happy place! and dang-nabit if 80% of our early trials and tribulations haven''t corrected themselves. C is, like, the happiest baby and full of chatter and charm. he''s super agreeable when we go out and doesn''t care who holds him or what strangers make funny faces at him. he eats it up! and laughs.. boy oh boy how the dude can laugh, and cuddle and make me smile. he lights up the second i walk into a room... it''s a melt your heart moment each and every time!

but i also don''t feel like i can go *anywhere*, and could never ask a baby sitter to do the stuff i do for c to keep him asleep. if they wanted to keep him asleep they would have to hold him the entire time. so, in that way, his sleeping patterns are impacting my day to day life. i can''t put him to sleep and do anything that isn''t a flight of stairs away from him..... i dread going to visit my mom or my sister b/c i know we will be up even more than we are. i dread having anyone watch him so DH and i can go out b/c ... well.... read above

i''m definitely at a cross roads and i''m having a hard time figuring out the right thing to do