Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS pls!

[Autumnovember]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Also, my thinking is that him telling you its either you guys live together & stay together or live apart and break up is his last ditch effort to keep you suckered in.

 

[Autumnovember]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Also, my thinking is that him telling you its either you guys live together & stay together or live apart and break up is his last ditch effort to keep you suckered in.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I hadn't even thought about that. He can try all he wants to say YOU are breaking up with him, but that is absolutely NOT the case. You're moving out to regain a sense of independence and try to improve the relationship. The thing to keep in mind is that this equals taking CONTROL. He is absolutely not going to like that. He likes to keep things comfortable and status quo for himself.

If he truly loves you, HE won't break up with you when you move out. Period. You're not engaged (and PLEASE don't say yes if he "proposes" sans a ring, or even with one as a last ditch effort to prove his commitment). You don't have children, a mortgage, etc. together. There's absolutely nobody, except HIM, that the separate living conditions will even remotely impact in a negative way, is there? I don't know, I guess I'm missing something.

There's logically no reason for him to have given you an ultimatum, especially after all that you've done to try to make it work and the number of chances he's been given.

Breaking up and moving out are TWO separate topics. He's trying to mesh them together because, as someone else said, he knows you don't want to break up. So he's trying to make it an all or nothing deal. For someone SO hopelessly in love that they can't bear to live apart, he sure hasn't been acting like it for months/years. That doesn't add up, no matter how sincere he is about being sorry. Of COURSE he's sorry. He didn't expect you to make good on your promises to yourself to not get sucked into having no identity at all aside from girlfriend/maid/dog walker/cook/bedmate.

 

[confusedaisy]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He sounds like an ex-boyfriend of mine. I was an idiot (also, 19) and got back together with him because I felt guilty and sorry for him. That only prolonged the inevitable and made him that much MORE of a baby when we broke up.

Don't listen to him. You are not doing this TO him.. He's done this to himself. I understand that this is hard to do when you care about someone, but you should care about yourself and your own happiness more.

HUGE hugs, I know this is hard!

I feel like I'm hurting him, and that hurts me. I know I'm not doing this to him, but it is so hard because I do love him, so very much.

You feel that way because that is how he is making you feel. Will you always feel a a little sad when you look back at a failed relationship- of course. But mainly you'll feel happy that that part of your life is over. Don't let him make you the bad guy for wanting to move on with your life.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Oh geez, big hugs.

I don't know if you read the book that I recommended, but if not please do and you will see your current SO described there again and again.

This guy knows exactly how to play and manipulate you for his own ends. People like this are fundamentally dangerous to be around IMHO. He is using emotional blackmail to keep his life easy. Do you want to be with a man who thinks that blackmail is the way to treat someone he supposedly love?

Sadly he gives you so little that when you get some expressions of interest and affection from him during the 'talks' you have had, you are clinging to these as important and as a demonstration of him actually giving a damn. Strikes me that you're getting very little affection or attention any other time. Oh, and I don't mean what goes on in the bedroom - affection and declarations of love received in the horizontal position count for nothing if they're not backed up by words and actions when vertical!

What the heck does 'not putting himself through it' mean exactly? If he'd be so unhappy without you and if he really loves you, then he should be prepared to do anything that would improve your relationship and make you happy. Instead he is giving you a guilt trip while looking after No. 1. He also knows that if you cave on this that you don't follow through and that gives him to power to exploit the situation even more.

In many ways it's harder to be the instigator of a break-up than to be on the recieving end. I know the situation hurts like hell right now and you love this man, but it's not a healthy place for you right now.

Please, please get out now. If the two of you are meant to be together it will happen. If he can't love you or want to be with you any more because you ask to live independently to try and improve your relationship then frankly, he's not worth wasting your time on.

You seem like a really great, kind, smart and loving person who has fallen into the clutches of an egotistical b***ard and deserves much, much better. If you do split up (which for your sake I hope is the case) then please take some time to look at why you are attracted to people like him and perhaps see a therapist to discuss this. It is horribly easy to fall into the arms of someone else who has very similar character traits. Learning to suppress your inner Florence Nightingale can save a lot of pain and heartache.

Wishing you all the best and much strength, do keep us updated...
Pxx

 

[decodelighted]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

It's like I just wanna scream "IT'S A TRICK!" He's TRICKING you into making you think its your decision ... all on you ... you're the one hurting *him*. Blah blah blah.

IT IS A TRICK. Come on now. Can't you see it? When we point it out? He DOESN'T HAVE TO BREAK UP WITH YOU if you decide to move out. That's HIS CHOICE. HE HAS A CHOICE. He's choosing to break up with YOU. You would no longer be filling his needs. Because he doesn't just want a *girlfriend* or a *wife*..... he wants a LIVE IN SERVANT. The position you'd be applying for again (by reupping the lease) is LIVE IN SERVANT.

It is all smoke and mirrors and manipulation and self-serving, guilt-inducing GOBBLEDY GOOK coming from him. No one can make you into the "bad guy" without YOUR PERMISSION. Challenge the logic for yourself. WHO is breaking up with WHOM if you move out? And who REALLY is making the decision? Give the guilt back to the rightful recipient.

 

[confusedaisy]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

11 pages here of you wanting to move out. You want to move out. You know that's the best thing for you. You've known it since page 1. Stick to your guns now. This is not you deciding to end the relationship, so forget this crap about the decision being entirely in your hands. Eff that. You decided, a long time ago, to move out. He has now decided that if you move out, it's over. That is his decision. He is in control here, but wants you to feel like you're the one making that decision. Why? Because it puts all the guilt on you. Because it allows him to whine to his family and friends and be a martyr, and paint you as the evil witch who left him high and dry. He gets to be sad but indignant, and you get all the guilt. Sadness, and the feeling of being wronged by someone, is something he can deal with, although he knows and admits that it will suck for a long time. It is tough being sad, but it is a lot easier than admitting you are in the wrong. Guilt is something he cannot deal with. So he's making you carry that load. That isn't fair. Say no.

Tell him how it is. You're moving out. You're not breaking up with him. If he wants to break up, that is his decision. Don't let him tell you that it's yours. It isn't. It's what he wants, not what you want. Do not let him make you feel guilty over something that he is doing.

Advice, I know it's hard, and I truly feel for you, but everything blacksand is completely spot on and if you don't see that then there isn't anything else we can say to you. YOU need to see how you are being brainwashed and how YOU deserve better. I wish you tons of strength- you seem like a very sweet person and I hate to see you being manipulated in this way. HUGS no matter what you decide to do.

 

[HollyS]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

It is immaterial whether you are hurting him or he is playing you . . . you've already admitted to yourself that this relationship is not what you want, what you need, and you don't see it changing. So leave it. It is the right answer. It is the only answer.

We can discuss for another 12 pages, if you like. OR, you can take the advice you asked for. The advice you knew you would receive. The advice you had already given yourself.

Yes, it is difficult to extricate yourself from a 5 year relationship, especially when sharing a household. Do it anyway. The last 60 days hasn't given you any more insight than you had before. The next 30 days won't bring a breakthrough on his part.

 

[sctsbride09]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Advicepls- He says it is your decision, but he has really been the one who has made it. You moving out= him not being with you= HE is the one who made the choice. All you are asking for is some independence, something that he should have no problem with.

On a side note, I have been where you have been. I was with a real winner (extreme sarcasm) for almost 4 years. I gave him everything, and he treated me like crap. I was his maid,cook,driver, you name it. I gave up so much to be with him, including my self respect, and I truly regret it. The only reason I dont regret the entire relationship is because *that* relationship makes me so grateful for my husband. He does everything the wrong guy didnt, he is my equal. And that is what you deserve, sweetie. A man that will fight for you, and put in the work/effort it takes to have a "equal" relationship. Please hang in there, I know its rough, I remember the pain well. But it passes, it may take awhile, but it does. Have a pint of ice cream, a jug of wine , have a good cry, and then move on. Get some new interests, or take up a hobby that has always interested you, anything to keep the brain occupied. Hugs, and good luck.

 

[Allison D.]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I gotta say, I"m having the most intense bout of deja vu. This reminds me of a LIW thread about 4-5 years ago with the same scenario......BF wouldn't give of himself at all UNLESS/UNTIL faced with the GF saying "Ok, enough's enough - I'm fixing to leave." She couldn't understand why he didn't seem anxious to meet her halfway. SO many of the ladies here said "he isn't going to change, this is how it will be if you move forward with this." And that's exactly what happened......they married, and he continued to live as he did when single. Wouldn't make room for her things, wouldn't make plans for their lives, wouldn't adjust ANYTHING about his life. She's posted several times that they are headed for divorce.

The B.S. about not having the time to talk? Nonsense. EVERYONE has the same 24 hours in a day; that's one thing you can't change whether rich or poor. EVERYONE gets the same 24 hours, and it's up to you what you do with them. In your case, you spend some of your 24 hours to meet his needs; he uses none of his hours to meet yours (i.e. talk, communicate, build a relationship). He makes time for things that important to him (i.e. hobbies, etc).....but not for you. I'd interpret that to mean you're just not important enough to him to make time for.

He doesn't want to agree to living separately because he already knows what will happen then...you'll realize how unbalanced things have been and how much happier you are, and then he'll lose you. So, he has to prevent you from coming to that realization.

Whether or not you realize it, this IS a JOINT decision regardless of how he's posturing it to you. You've both arrived at "here we are, and what do we do?" He's made his decision...he's not changing and he's not willing to compromise at all. He owns that part of the decision no matter what you do from here, and it will never be "just your fault, just your call."

I'm really sad to hear how this has played out, because I have a sinking feeling we'll be reading your posts three or four years from now - tinged with regret for letting manipulation override your instincts and wasting years in the process.

I just don't see how he can be expected to respect you if you aren't willing to respect yourself. Why should he do what you won't?

I admire that so many ladies here have tried to help you, but at this point, there's really nothing left they can say. Oddly, you and your BF are now in precisely the same position: each of you has to decide if you are willing to change to achieve happiness. (He's made it clear that he isn't.) The rest is up to you, and I sense these ladies can't get you to see the light anymore than you can get him to see it. If you don't want it for yourself, it's not enough that they want it for you......just like your BF.

I wish you luck.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Bottom line: what's more important to you-your happiness or his?

You stay and do everything for him=he's happy, you're miserable.

You leave and do you for once=you're happy and he's sad because he has to take care of himself for once. (At least until he finds another woman to clean up after him and pack his lunches.)

You know the answer to this one. The only question is if you're going to listen to yourself or not.

 

[FrekeChild]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Junkpunch.

I'm with Deco and Allison (and an overwhelming everyone else) on this one. Keep your self respect and walk away. "You are a strong confident woman..." Now go buy some wine, watch some of your favorite TV shows/movies/whatever (mine is Friends!), eat some ice cream, grab the apartment classifieds and rejoice that you are moving away from him. Get out. Get out. Get out. Everything on the past 12 pages is TRUE.

He will never ever ever change.

You will never ever ever be happy with this man.



Here is a hint: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-saying-hi-to-you-all.158326/

 

[monarch64]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

It is immaterial whether you are hurting him or he is playing you . . . you've already admitted to yourself that this relationship is not what you want, what you need, and you don't see it changing. So leave it. It is the right answer. It is the only answer.

We can discuss for another 12 pages, if you like. OR, you can take the advice you asked for. The advice you knew you would receive. The advice you had already given yourself.

Yes, it is difficult to extricate yourself from a 5 year relationship, especially when sharing a household. Do it anyway. The last 60 days hasn't given you any more insight than you had before. The next 30 days won't bring a breakthrough on his part.

Yup. What Holly said. Honey, just GO. We will all be here for you (and so will your family/friends/acquaintances) when the cookie crumbles. It WILL be the best thing you ever do for yourself! Also, just GO.

Don't feel guilty. Stop letting this person dictate what you're feeling about the situation. Get yourself squared away (sounds like you've already made great strides towards that), and be done with it. There is so much waiting out there for you in this world. There is LOT waiting out there for HIM in the world! This relationship is. not. working. Period.

If you had a daughter, or a very dear best friend...what would you say to her if presented with this very same situation? Read it to yourself, all 12 pages, and insert your potential daughter's name or your best friend's name where your pronouns are. Then think about it again.

 

[swingirl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Your boyfriend seems happy with status quo. He likes the way things are. He hasn't made any moves towards changing for you; not changing his work or weekend schedule, not softening his 90% no kids stance, not agreeing to talk more and take care of your communication needs. ZIPPO. Nothing. He just wants you to continue with the way things are and be satisfied with the fact that you are the best thing in his life. Well, that just doesn't make for a long marriage.

Time to move out and move on. See what it feels like to be your own person and open up the possibilities for your future.

 

[pancake]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I agree with the other girls - Allison, Deco, etc.

I do not think his behaviour is calculated - I think it's what one of my senior work colleagues used to call "reptilian brain", that is, his most primitive of emotional defense mechanisms just kicking in. His "all or nothing" ultimatum/reaction is an attempt to take back control in a situation where he feels that he has none (which is not entirely true, of course). As others have said - breaking up when you move out is not a necessity, it is something that HE is deciding. I think he probably needs to feel that he has decision-making power here and this is the only way that he can see how in the situation as presented to him currently.

Whether it will turn out to be a bluff or not is a moot point really. If it ends when you move out, then it was not meant to be - you are making decisions for your wellbeing and what you believe to be the best for the potential salvage of the relationship (if it turns out that is what you want, anyway). It's not a "fate" thing - I don't believe in that - but if he breaks up with you because you move out, then it indicates that he is not willing to work on his relationship with you, and you have the answer that you have really been looking for from the beginning.

I do think that by waiting until mid-June you are making life much more difficult for yourself and your decisions will tend to get watered down with time.

 

[Pandora II]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/remember-me.148418/#post-2689574#p2689574']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/remember-me.148418/#post-2689574#p2689574[/URL]

Read that...

 

[Circe]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Wow, there's so much good advice on this thread that I don't even know who to ditto ... so I'm going to stick with Pandora, Deco, and Blacksand on this page alone.

Oh, honey. I chimed in on page one and I've been lurking ever since, but as the make-or-break time is coming, allow me to reiterate ... LEAVE.

I dunno if I ever mentioned this on PS before, but my first relationship started at a young age, and lasted for a long time: we got together when I was 17, and were together for 7 years. We were engaged, we lived together, and it was a mess. We didn't have the these newfangled "message boards" back in those days (or, more like I was a complete neo-luddite), so I didn't have 100 well-intentioned strangers giving me the experience of their diverse backgrounds: I just had my circle of friends, chanting "Leave! Leave! Leave!"

It still took me, like, 5 years. So I get it. It's really tough to leave that first big relationship. But you have a list as long as your arm to leave - the kid thing, the lack of reciprocity thing, the irresponsibility with money thing, the lack of communication thing - and a list that appears to have one thing on it to stay ... guilt. You're not bucking for martyrdom, right? So why think twice?

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Honey,
I'm so sorry your going though this. But I agree with the others. As much as he says he wants to stay together and can't imagine his life without you, you're going to need to leave. This is no longer about him, this is about YOU. YOU need time on your own to figure out how you feel. If he wants to break up bc you don't live together that's his decision. The only way he'll make any changes in his life and grow up is if you follow though with what you've been talking about with him for months. And that's putting yourself and your happiness first. If he hasn't changed after all the convo's you've had with him, he probably won't. But if he does it will only be after he see's how serious you are (and probably how happy you are after you've been on your own a while) and he'll realize he's been a lazy dumba** and do everything in his power to win you back (if he's smart). If not, someone else will see how AMAZING you are and you'll meet someone down the road.

As much as this hurts I promise it does get better. At a very young age I realized that love isn't enough to keep a relationship together and love isn't enough for happiness. Do what you need to do for YOU and forget about him. I also would figure out what it is you DON'T want in a relationship (you don't have to do this now, just keep it in the back of your mind) and don't compromise on those things. When the time is right the right man will come along and if he isn't everything you already want/need he will do his best to become want you want and need (and I don't mean by changing who they are, I mean growing/changing things for the other person in a positive manner for both parties).

Your young and you've figured out what DOESN'T work. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So go down the scary road that you've been emotionally and mentally preparing yourself for months and brace yourself because what you're going to discover within yourself is amazing and even more beautiful than you already are and can imagine. Your handsome prince charming is waiting for you to find YOU and get away from mr. wrong so he can come and treat you like you should be treated. So go buy yourself a build a bear and dress him in something cute and there is your new bed mate. They are wonderful, they don't argue, they are soft and are always willing to cuddle and catch your tears.

HUGS again hun and we are here whenever you need to talk or vent. Someday we'll be reading a thread to put you back on the list bc you've met someone who cares as much for you as you do for them. And you both are each others better half...not the better half of someone who doesn't deserve you.

Vintagelover- this post helped me more than you will ever know. Particularly that breaking up will be HIS decision and not mine. I’m in no hurry to the altar, and as it stands couldn’t accept a proposal if I wanted to. He isn’t ready to be a united front and play for the same team. I honestly think the only way he’ll ever have a chance to get ready is to have some time to be independent of both me and his parents. He needs time to grow up. I need time to live alone and think about me.

Yep, it will be you doing it. It'll be you realizing this isn't healthy and walking towards something better for yourself. This guy clearly isn't willing to make any meaningful changes that will positively impact your relationship. He IS willing, however, to whine and lay the blame everywhere but where it belongs - at his own damn feet.

*hugs* None of this is easy, but do what's best for yourself and you won't regret it - trust me, this guy only looks good to you now. When he's in your rearview and you're off on a new adventure, you'll know you made the right choice.

Princesss- I always appreciate your perspective. Knowing that we’re in nearly identical (albeit opposite) situations, makes feel a sort of closeness to your story. I feel like he can be manipulative with trying to get me to do what he wants, I’m not trying to blame either one of us, I know we both had a hand in where we are today, but I feel like he’s forcing my hand. I wish he could just be adult about this and give it some time, but I’m pretty sure that he’ll walk when I stand my ground.

I was hoping that moving out and restructuring our relationship would work/help, I couldn't believe that he reacted as strongly as he did against it.

I can't believe that you couldn't believe! This is classic mind games stuff. But its two-fold ...

1) He's trying whatever he can to force you into staying / status quo. Threatening you with what you FEAR THE MOST. But he puts it like "oh he'd be too hurt to date you if you weren't living together" ... when what he's really thinking "OH SHIZ! I'll have to take care of MYSELF! I don't know HOW TO??????!!!! And it is SO UN FUN!!!! It might affect my LIFESTYLE!"

and

2) He's going to NEED the freedom to date some other chick .... WHO WILL STEP IN AND TAKE CARE OF HIM. If he's dating YOU -- he's ON HIS OWN. You're not going to let some other chick move in and take care of him! Which is what he'll be looking for asap. Not a chick to MARRY, mind you. Just ANYONE who will do his dirty work for a spell and sleep w/him for good measure.

I'm putting it like this (harshly) to try to get you to see the whole picture. Not his sob story. Not how YOU would be feeling if you were HIM. But the real awfulness of him and the stage of life he is at and the RAW DEAL it would be for you to give him anymore of your time/heart.

You know what? If he really loves you and really wants to be with you -- he's MANAGE THE PAIN of continuing to date you after you move out. He' MAN UP for the first time in is feeble wimpy spoiled life. If he DOESN'T ... that's ON HIM. Not on YOU. It will be even more evidence of his immaturity and thoughtless self-indulgence.

Deco- If I ever meet you in real life, I owe you a serious drink! Your thoughts mean the world to me, your posts are what has given me most of the strength I feel. You are somehow able to put my confused mixed up thoughts into words that have meaning to me. And I think you’re exactly right. Particularly the bolded part, I’m going to HAVE to call his bluff, if he’s really as hurt as he says he is at the thought of us not being together, when I stand my ground HE will scramble to hold it together in any way he can (staying together – living apart). ON HIM, not on ME. You are better than a therapist. Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

11 pages here of you wanting to move out. You want to move out. You know that's the best thing for you. You've known it since page 1. Stick to your guns now. This is not you deciding to end the relationship, so forget this crap about the decision being entirely in your hands. Eff that. You decided, a long time ago, to move out. He has now decided that if you move out, it's over. That is his decision. He is in control here, but wants you to feel like you're the one making that decision. Why? Because it puts all the guilt on you. Because it allows him to whine to his family and friends and be a martyr, and paint you as the evil witch who left him high and dry. He gets to be sad but indignant, and you get all the guilt. Sadness, and the feeling of being wronged by someone, is something he can deal with, although he knows and admits that it will suck for a long time. It is tough being sad, but it is a lot easier than admitting you are in the wrong. Guilt is something he cannot deal with. So he's making you carry that load. That isn't fair. Say no.

Tell him how it is. You're moving out. You're not breaking up with him. If he wants to break up, that is his decision. Don't let him tell you that it's yours. It isn't. It's what he wants, not what you want. Do not let him make you feel guilty over something that he is doing.

You’re right, I do want to move out. I’m kind of terrified by it to be honest, but it has to be done. It’s been nearly a decade since I have been on my own and it really does terrify me. But it will make me stronger, better, and more ready for something in the future to go through this (whether that be with him, or someone else). I do feel like he’s turned the around to be my fault. I didn’t expect it, though I should have. Somehow he always manages to spin it back around and make me feel bad about. Your last paragraph helps me so much. This is what I will do.

What has the money situation been like since you last checked in? Has he started contributing his fair share?

Better. He has been contributing, but not on his own accord. Every paycheck I tell him I need X for groceries, X for pet supplies, X for bills, etc. He’s not taking responsibility for making sure I get what I need, I have to take it. He’s been picking up more after *himself* around the house which is appreciated, but doesn’t pitch in to help anymore with my stuff or the pet stuff. He’s only faltered once where he went FLYING and then didn’t have the $ to order the dog’s medicine for the year. I had to order it and he’s paying me back for it out of the check we get on Friday. He has NOT stopped flying as HE suggested would benefit the budget. Work in progress obviously, but it’s certainly better than before, at least I’m collecting the $ to help keep ME out of debt.

Also, my thinking is that him telling you its either you guys live together & stay together or live apart and break up is his last ditch effort to keep you suckered in.

As much as it hurts, I painfully agree.

I hadn't even thought about that. He can try all he wants to say YOU are breaking up with him, but that is absolutely NOT the case. You're moving out to regain a sense of independence and try to improve the relationship. The thing to keep in mind is that this equals taking CONTROL. He is absolutely not going to like that. He likes to keep things comfortable and status quo for himself.

If he truly loves you, HE won't break up with you when you move out. Period. You're not engaged (and PLEASE don't say yes if he "proposes" sans a ring, or even with one as a last ditch effort to prove his commitment). You don't have children, a mortgage, etc. together. There's absolutely nobody, except HIM, that the separate living conditions will even remotely impact in a negative way, is there? I don't know, I guess I'm missing something.

There's logically no reason for him to have given you an ultimatum, especially after all that you've done to try to make it work and the number of chances he's been given.

Breaking up and moving out are TWO separate topics. He's trying to mesh them together because, as someone else said, he knows you don't want to break up. So he's trying to make it an all or nothing deal. For someone SO hopelessly in love that they can't bear to live apart, he sure hasn't been acting like it for months/years. That doesn't add up, no matter how sincere he is about being sorry. Of COURSE he's sorry. He didn't expect you to make good on your promises to yourself to not get sucked into having no identity at all aside from girlfriend/maid/dog walker/cook/bedmate.

I wouldn’t dream of marrying this man as he is right now. I was blind to him for a long time, but I have seen the light. I think living apart is the ONLY CHANCE we have at straightening this out, and even then I fear the chances are slim that he’ll step up to the plate. I think you are all spot on in saying that my decision to move out (for me) does not equal breaking up. If he wants to do that, that IS HIS CHOICE. And think you all also have it correct that if he REALLY wants this to work out and that I am REALLY the only one he sees being with, that he won’t do it just because I move out. I agree, I felt like it was an ultimatum, not sure if he will follow through with it or not, but I can’t give in at this point. He will forever have the control if I don’t do this. Thank you tammy77.

He sounds like an ex-boyfriend of mine. I was an idiot (also, 19) and got back together with him because I felt guilty and sorry for him. That only prolonged the inevitable and made him that much MORE of a baby when we broke up.

Don't listen to him. You are not doing this TO him.. He's done this to himself. I understand that this is hard to do when you care about someone, but you should care about yourself and your own happiness more.

HUGE hugs, I know this is hard!

I feel like I'm hurting him, and that hurts me. I know I'm not doing this to him, but it is so hard because I do love him, so very much.

You feel that way because that is how he is making you feel. Will you always feel a a little sad when you look back at a failed relationship- of course. But mainly you'll feel happy that that part of your life is over. Don't let him make you the bad guy for wanting to move on with your life.

Thank you confusedaisy.

Oh geez, big hugs.

I don't know if you read the book that I recommended, but if not please do and you will see your current SO described there again and again.

This guy knows exactly how to play and manipulate you for his own ends. People like this are fundamentally dangerous to be around IMHO. He is using emotional blackmail to keep his life easy. Do you want to be with a man who thinks that blackmail is the way to treat someone he supposedly love?

Sadly he gives you so little that when you get some expressions of interest and affection from him during the 'talks' you have had, you are clinging to these as important and as a demonstration of him actually giving a damn. Strikes me that you're getting very little affection or attention any other time. Oh, and I don't mean what goes on in the bedroom - affection and declarations of love received in the horizontal position count for nothing if they're not backed up by words and actions when vertical!

What the heck does 'not putting himself through it' mean exactly? If he'd be so unhappy without you and if he really loves you, then he should be prepared to do anything that would improve your relationship and make you happy. Instead he is giving you a guilt trip while looking after No. 1. He also knows that if you cave on this that you don't follow through and that gives him to power to exploit the situation even more.

In many ways it's harder to be the instigator of a break-up than to be on the recieving end. I know the situation hurts like hell right now and you love this man, but it's not a healthy place for you right now.

Please, please get out now. If the two of you are meant to be together it will happen. If he can't love you or want to be with you any more because you ask to live independently to try and improve your relationship then frankly, he's not worth wasting your time on.

You seem like a really great, kind, smart and loving person who has fallen into the clutches of an egotistical b***ard and deserves much, much better. If you do split up (which for your sake I hope is the case) then please take some time to look at why you are attracted to people like him and perhaps see a therapist to discuss this. It is horribly easy to fall into the arms of someone else who has very similar character traits. Learning to suppress your inner Florence Nightingale can save a lot of pain and heartache.

Wishing you all the best and much strength, do keep us updated...
Pxx

Pandora- I’ve ordered the book, haven’t received it yet. I’m not sure exactly what he means by not putting himself through that. When we talked about it, to him he said that living apart will just be the precursor to breakup (instead of what I want, to start repairing!) and that he doesn’t want to drag out the inevitable. He accused me of suggesting it as a way of easing into a breakup. I will definitely work on my Florence Nightingale syndrome…thank you.

It's like I just wanna scream "IT'S A TRICK!" He's TRICKING you into making you think its your decision ... all on you ... you're the one hurting *him*. Blah blah blah.

IT IS A TRICK. Come on now. Can't you see it? When we point it out? He DOESN'T HAVE TO BREAK UP WITH YOU if you decide to move out. That's HIS CHOICE. HE HAS A CHOICE. He's choosing to break up with YOU. You would no longer be filling his needs. Because he doesn't just want a *girlfriend* or a *wife*..... he wants a LIVE IN SERVANT. The position you'd be applying for again (by reupping the lease) is LIVE IN SERVANT.

It is all smoke and mirrors and manipulation and self-serving, guilt-inducing GOBBLEDY GOOK coming from him. No one can make you into the "bad guy" without YOUR PERMISSION. Challenge the logic for yourself. WHO is breaking up with WHOM if you move out? And who REALLY is making the decision? Give the guilt back to the rightful recipient.

I do see it, he doesn’t want to be the one to do it. He does have a choice. You are right, he is breaking up with me if I move out. I so owe you deco.

11 pages here of you wanting to move out. You want to move out. You know that's the best thing for you. You've known it since page 1. Stick to your guns now. This is not you deciding to end the relationship, so forget this crap about the decision being entirely in your hands. Eff that. You decided, a long time ago, to move out. He has now decided that if you move out, it's over. That is his decision. He is in control here, but wants you to feel like you're the one making that decision. Why? Because it puts all the guilt on you. Because it allows him to whine to his family and friends and be a martyr, and paint you as the evil witch who left him high and dry. He gets to be sad but indignant, and you get all the guilt. Sadness, and the feeling of being wronged by someone, is something he can deal with, although he knows and admits that it will suck for a long time. It is tough being sad, but it is a lot easier than admitting you are in the wrong. Guilt is something he cannot deal with. So he's making you carry that load. That isn't fair. Say no.

Tell him how it is. You're moving out. You're not breaking up with him. If he wants to break up, that is his decision. Don't let him tell you that it's yours. It isn't. It's what he wants, not what you want. Do not let him make you feel guilty over something that he is doing.

Advice, I know it's hard, and I truly feel for you, but everything blacksand is completely spot on and if you don't see that then there isn't anything else we can say to you. YOU need to see how you are being brainwashed and how YOU deserve better. I wish you tons of strength- you seem like a very sweet person and I hate to see you being manipulated in this way. HUGS no matter what you decide to do.

I do see it, I just needed another swift kick in the pants. You all are right, he gave me an inch with all the emotions and I ran with it. It threw me off and made me confused. Thank you all for straightening me back out.

It is immaterial whether you are hurting him or he is playing you . . . you've already admitted to yourself that this relationship is not what you want, what you need, and you don't see it changing. So leave it. It is the right answer. It is the only answer.

We can discuss for another 12 pages, if you like. OR, you can take the advice you asked for. The advice you knew you would receive. The advice you had already given yourself.

Yes, it is difficult to extricate yourself from a 5 year relationship, especially when sharing a household.
Do it anyway. The last 60 days hasn't given you any more insight than you had before. The next 30 days won't bring a breakthrough on his part.

You’re right. I knew even going into this back in February that the amount of time we really had left wasn’t going to be enough to see any serious changes. He has said he doesn’t think we can work on these things if we’re living apart. To some extent, he’s right. But before we can work on these things, I feel like we both need to work on ourselves. We both need time to grow up semi-independently from each other and re-evaluate as we go. I haven’t been without a significant other since 2002, and he went practically straight from his parent’s house to mine. I think we need time to take care of ourselves, grow up, and see where things stand. Any potential breakthrough is going to take much more time than we have.

Advicepls- He says it is your decision, but he has really been the one who has made it. You moving out= him not being with you= HE is the one who made the choice. All you are asking for is some independence, something that he should have no problem with.

On a side note, I have been where you have been. I was with a real winner (extreme sarcasm) for almost 4 years. I gave him everything, and he treated me like crap. I was his maid,cook,driver, you name it. I gave up so much to be with him, including my self respect, and I truly regret it. The only reason I dont regret the entire relationship is because *that* relationship makes me so grateful for my husband. He does everything the wrong guy didnt, he is my equal. And that is what you deserve, sweetie. A man that will fight for you, and put in the work/effort it takes to have a "equal" relationship. Please hang in there, I know its rough, I remember the pain well. But it passes, it may take awhile, but it does. Have a pint of ice cream, a jug of wine , have a good cry, and then move on. Get some new interests, or take up a hobby that has always interested you, anything to keep the brain occupied. Hugs, and good luck.

You have it spot on, to me living apart is not breaking up. One way or another I am on way to better things, one way or another…

I gotta say, I"m having the most intense bout of deja vu. This reminds me of a LIW thread about 4-5 years ago with the same scenario......BF wouldn't give of himself at all UNLESS/UNTIL faced with the GF saying "Ok, enough's enough - I'm fixing to leave." She couldn't understand why he didn't seem anxious to meet her halfway. SO many of the ladies here said "he isn't going to change, this is how it will be if you move forward with this." And that's exactly what happened......they married, and he continued to live as he did when single. Wouldn't make room for her things, wouldn't make plans for their lives, wouldn't adjust ANYTHING about his life. She's posted several times that they are headed for divorce.

The B.S. about not having the time to talk? Nonsense. EVERYONE has the same 24 hours in a day; that's one thing you can't change whether rich or poor. EVERYONE gets the same 24 hours, and it's up to you what you do with them. In your case, you spend some of your 24 hours to meet his needs; he uses none of his hours to meet yours (i.e. talk, communicate, build a relationship). He makes time for things that important to him (i.e. hobbies, etc).....but not for you. I'd interpret that to mean you're just not important enough to him to make time for.

He doesn't want to agree to living separately because he already knows what will happen then...you'll realize how unbalanced things have been and how much happier you are, and then he'll lose you. So, he has to prevent you from coming to that realization.

Whether or not you realize it, this IS a JOINT decision regardless of how he's posturing it to you. You've both arrived at "here we are, and what do we do?" He's made his decision...he's not changing and he's not willing to compromise at all. He owns that part of the decision no matter what you do from here, and it will never be "just your fault, just your call."

I'm really sad to hear how this has played out, because I have a sinking feeling we'll be reading your posts three or four years from now - tinged with regret for letting manipulation override your instincts and wasting years in the process.

I just don't see how he can be expected to respect you if you aren't willing to respect yourself. Why should he do what you won't?

I admire that so many ladies here have tried to help you, but at this point, there's really nothing left they can say. Oddly, you and your BF are now in precisely the same position: each of you has to decide if you are willing to change to achieve happiness. (He's made it clear that he isn't.) The rest is up to you, and I sense these ladies can't get you to see the light anymore than you can get him to see it. If you don't want it for yourself, it's not enough that they want it for you......just like your BF.

I wish you luck.

Manipulation is not going to override my instincts, move out I shall. What happens from there will be dealt with at that time. I’m too smart to let this keep happening to me. I only wish I realized it sooner.

Bottom line: what's more important to you-your happiness or his?

You stay and do everything for him=he's happy, you're miserable.

You leave and do you for once=you're happy and he's sad because he has to take care of himself for once. (At least until he finds another woman to clean up after him and pack his lunches.)

You know the answer to this one. The only question is if you're going to listen to yourself or not.

I do, and I will. Thanks.

Junkpunch.

I'm with Deco and Allison (and an overwhelming everyone else) on this one. Keep your self respect and walk away. "You are a strong confident woman..." Now go buy some wine, watch some of your favorite TV shows/movies/whatever (mine is Friends!), eat some ice cream, grab the apartment classifieds and rejoice that you are moving away from him. Get out. Get out. Get out. Everything on the past 12 pages is TRUE.

He will never ever ever change.

You will never ever ever be happy with this man.

Here is a hint: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-saying-hi-to-you-all.158326/

Thanks Freke! Friends is one of my favorites as well!

It is immaterial whether you are hurting him or he is playing you . . . you've already admitted to yourself that this relationship is not what you want, what you need, and you don't see it changing. So leave it. It is the right answer. It is the only answer.

We can discuss for another 12 pages, if you like. OR, you can take the advice you asked for. The advice you knew you would receive. The advice you had already given yourself.

Yes, it is difficult to extricate yourself from a 5 year relationship, especially when sharing a household. Do it anyway. The last 60 days hasn't given you any more insight than you had before. The next 30 days won't bring a breakthrough on his part.

Yup. What Holly said. Honey, just GO. We will all be here for you (and so will your family/friends/acquaintances) when the cookie crumbles. It WILL be the best thing you ever do for yourself! Also, just GO.

Don't feel guilty. Stop letting this person dictate what you're feeling about the situation. Get yourself squared away (sounds like you've already made great strides towards that), and be done with it. There is so much waiting out there for you in this world. There is LOT waiting out there for HIM in the world! This relationship is. not. working. Period.

If you had a daughter, or a very dear best friend...what would you say to her if presented with this very same situation? Read it to yourself, all 12 pages, and insert your potential daughter's name or your best friend's name where your pronouns are. Then think about it again.

Thank you, you’re right. If this was my friend, niece, sister, etc I’d be shaking them trying to get them to see the big picture. I need to take what would be my own advice.

Your boyfriend seems happy with status quo. He likes the way things are. He hasn't made any moves towards changing for you; not changing his work or weekend schedule, not softening his 90% no kids stance, not agreeing to talk more and take care of your communication needs. ZIPPO. Nothing. He just wants you to continue with the way things are and be satisfied with the fact that you are the best thing in his life. Well, that just doesn't make for a long marriage.

Time to move out and move on. See what it feels like to be your own person and open up the possibilities for your future.

You’re right, I feel like I’m the only one making any compromises at all (because I am). He hasn’t been willing to bend up to this point and not following through with moving out will just make it worse.

I agree with the other girls - Allison, Deco, etc.

I do not think his behaviour is calculated - I think it's what one of my senior work colleagues used to call "reptilian brain", that is, his most primitive of emotional defense mechanisms just kicking in. His "all or nothing" ultimatum/reaction is an attempt to take back control in a situation where he feels that he has none (which is not entirely true, of course). As others have said - breaking up when you move out is not a necessity, it is something that HE is deciding. I think he probably needs to feel that he has decision-making power here and this is the only way that he can see how in the situation as presented to him currently.

Whether it will turn out to be a bluff or not is a moot point really. If it ends when you move out, then it was not meant to be - you are making decisions for your wellbeing and what you believe to be the best for the potential salvage of the relationship (if it turns out that is what you want, anyway). It's not a "fate" thing - I don't believe in that - but if he breaks up with you because you move out, then it indicates that he is not willing to work on his relationship with you, and you have the answer that you have really been looking for from the beginning.

I do think that by waiting until mid-June you are making life much more difficult for yourself and your decisions will tend to get watered down with time.

I think you’re right, I don’t know that he’s doing it intentionally, but he is (whether consciously or not, it doesn’t really matter anymore) he is forcing me back into what makes HIM comfortable. You’re right, this decision is for ME. For the first time in a very long time, I’m thinking of myself first.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/remember-me.148418/#post-2689574#p2689574

Read that...

I did, and I don’t want that to happen to me. I won’t LET that happen to me.

Wow, there's so much good advice on this thread that I don't even know who to ditto ... so I'm going to stick with Pandora, Deco, and Blacksand on this page alone.

Oh, honey. I chimed in on page one and I've been lurking ever since, but as the make-or-break time is coming, allow me to reiterate ... LEAVE.

I dunno if I ever mentioned this on PS before, but my first relationship started at a young age, and lasted for a long time: we got together when I was 17, and were together for 7 years. We were engaged, we lived together, and it was a mess. We didn't have the these newfangled "message boards" back in those days (or, more like I was a complete neo-luddite), so I didn't have 100 well-intentioned strangers giving me the experience of their diverse backgrounds: I just had my circle of friends, chanting "Leave! Leave! Leave!"

It still took me, like, 5 years. So I get it. It's really tough to leave that first big relationship. But you have a list as long as your arm to leave - the kid thing, the lack of reciprocity thing, the irresponsibility with money thing, the lack of communication thing - and a list that appears to have one thing on it to stay ... guilt. You're not bucking for martyrdom, right? So why think twice?

Thank you Circe. Your experience helps me see more perspective as well. I’m glad you get it, I don’t want people to think that I’m an idiot, I see it, I really do. It’s just hard, so so so so hard. You’re all right, it’s what is for the best.

 

[chemgirl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He said that that is hard for him to do because he doesn't need that kind of love to feel good, but that he'll do whatever it takes to make sure that he does it for me. I told him that it has really gotten to the point that I do not feel like a priority in his life AT ALL and that I feel like the things I do are expected and not appreciated like they used to be. He apologized profusely.

This is a big point of incompatibility. You've told him BEFORE what you need and he has PROVEN he cannot give you what you need. If he could change, and wanted to make the effort, he already would have. You can't scare him into really giving you what you need longterm.

Also, if action is his love language, how has he been showing you love through his actions? He's not expressing love in any language. Do the hard thing, dig in your heels, and give notice on your lease. If some miracle happens, you can get a new place together and a fresh start, but don't let that door close.

We sort of talked about the love languages before, not in depth by any means. Like I said, communication is definitely somewhere we're lacking. He feels that by working as much as he does and networking the way he does is his way of boosting his career that will be large portion of our total support in the future. He feels that those actions are for US. I can see his point, but since that's not how I feel loved, it mostly leaves me feeling left in the cold.

I find this part really hard to believe. Its for HIM and his own success. I say this because my husband owns and operates his own tech company and he gets ALL of his business from word of mouth. He has never advertised beyond making a website, nor approached anyone for a contract. He works 50-60 hours per week so clearly he has done a good job networking.

He doesn't put networking before our relationship. Yes he works hard and yes he spends a few nights every week at business related events, volunteering, and sitting in board meetings in order to network. However, he has also cut down on extra curricular activities (in his case martial arts, in your boyfriend's case flying) in order to spend more time with me. He also tells me all about the events and I try to be involved in those that I find interesting. He makes sure he is available to run errands with me and we go to the gym together. He is extremely busy, but we do more than just eat together.

My point is that if your boyfriend has time for expensive hobbies, and time for dinners with friends, then he has time to talk to you, to help you with chores, and to spend quality time with you. He's not spending time on things for YOU, he's spending time on things for HIM.

Also, in his defense, I can see where he wouldn't like the idea of you moving out. He might see it as step one of breaking up. I can see how somebody wouldn't want to get in to that thinking that it will lead to a much longer and more difficult breakup. That said, he might also want you to stay so you can keep on taking care of him. That wouldn't be cool!

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He also made sure to point out in our talk/discussion/fight that the dog is HIS. That if I decide to leave HIM that he's not going to lose me, the cat, and the dog. He then went on to say he was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know, but that I needed to give him all her vet, groomer, trainer, doggie camp, medicine, food, etc information so that he could verify that HIS name was on everything so that I woulnd't leave him AND take HIS dog. I really don't know what to do about this one, I LOVE that little girl and I picked her, found her, trained her, take care of her. She sleeps with ME. He technically paid for her and I guess the paperwork sides in his favor in terms of ownership, but according to her, she's mine. I ended up taking care of her because he doesn't have the time to, he's never home for her walks, feeding times, etc. He doesn't have enough time for himself (according to him) let alone to make sure she gets to the vet and groomer when necessary. And he spent her medicine money on FLYING. I want them both to stay with me, but I know he'll get so so so nasty if I even bring it up. I'm not sure what I can even do about it. More than anything, I know he loves her, but I want whats best for HER most of all.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He said that that is hard for him to do because he doesn't need that kind of love to feel good, but that he'll do whatever it takes to make sure that he does it for me. I told him that it has really gotten to the point that I do not feel like a priority in his life AT ALL and that I feel like the things I do are expected and not appreciated like they used to be. He apologized profusely.

This is a big point of incompatibility. You've told him BEFORE what you need and he has PROVEN he cannot give you what you need. If he could change, and wanted to make the effort, he already would have. You can't scare him into really giving you what you need longterm.

Also, if action is his love language, how has he been showing you love through his actions? He's not expressing love in any language. Do the hard thing, dig in your heels, and give notice on your lease. If some miracle happens, you can get a new place together and a fresh start, but don't let that door close.

We sort of talked about the love languages before, not in depth by any means. Like I said, communication is definitely somewhere we're lacking. He feels that by working as much as he does and networking the way he does is his way of boosting his career that will be large portion of our total support in the future. He feels that those actions are for US. I can see his point, but since that's not how I feel loved, it mostly leaves me feeling left in the cold.

I find this part really hard to believe. Its for HIM and his own success. I say this because my husband owns and operates his own tech company and he gets ALL of his business from word of mouth. He has never advertised beyond making a website, nor approached anyone for a contract. He works 50-60 hours per week so clearly he has done a good job networking.

He doesn't put networking before our relationship. Yes he works hard and yes he spends a few nights every week at business related events, volunteering, and sitting in board meetings in order to network. However, he has also cut down on extra curricular activities (in his case martial arts, in your boyfriend's case flying) in order to spend more time with me. He also tells me all about the events and I try to be involved in those that I find interesting. He makes sure he is available to run errands with me and we go to the gym together. He is extremely busy, but we do more than just eat together.

My point is that if your boyfriend has time for expensive hobbies, and time for dinners with friends, then he has time to talk to you, to help you with chores, and to spend quality time with you. He's not spending time on things for YOU, he's spending time on things for HIM.

Also, in his defense, I can see where he wouldn't like the idea of you moving out. He might see it as step one of breaking up. I can see how somebody wouldn't want to get in to that thinking that it will lead to a much longer and more difficult breakup. That said, he might also want you to stay so you can keep on taking care of him. That wouldn't be cool!

I agree, I think it’s an excuse. He thinks I’m boring, he’s said so on many occasions. When we ‘re talk/fighting whatever, he even said that he’s brought up several times that I never want to do anything on the weekends. Which is NOT true. Things I find enjoyable/relaxing he doesn’t want to do. He thinks I don’t want to do anything, because I don’t want to go FLYING. I’d like him to even come to the grocery store with me to pick out something to make for dinner TOGETHER, but that’s WORK and it’s (in deco’s words) so UN FUN that he thinks it’s BORING. You’ve all said it, he makes time for what’s important to him. Clearly I haven’t made the cut.

I can sort of see his opinion re: moving out as a step towards breaking up, but I clearly explained my expectations for such a situation, and he doesn't get it. Whether or not it's true, I don't know. Breaking up is an option if we can't realign and both make compromises towards a common goal. I (deep down) hope that I haven't wasted all my time and that he sees this as a HUGE reality check that it's time to grow up, put his big boy pants on, and make some serious changes. If not, his loss I guess.

 

[iheartscience]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He also made sure to point out in our talk/discussion/fight that the dog is HIS. That if I decide to leave HIM that he's not going to lose me, the cat, and the dog. He then went on to say he was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know, but that I needed to give him all her vet, groomer, trainer, doggie camp, medicine, food, etc information so that he could verify that HIS name was on everything so that I woulnd't leave him AND take HIS dog. I really don't know what to do about this one, I LOVE that little girl and I picked her, found her, trained her, take care of her. She sleeps with ME. He technically paid for her and I guess the paperwork sides in his favor in terms of ownership, but according to her, she's mine. I ended up taking care of her because he doesn't have the time to, he's never home for her walks, feeding times, etc. He doesn't have enough time for himself (according to him) let alone to make sure she gets to the vet and groomer when necessary. And he spent her medicine money on FLYING. I want them both to stay with me, but I know he'll get so so so nasty if I even bring it up. I'm not sure what I can even do about it. More than anything, I know he loves her, but I want whats best for HER most of all.

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him to f*ck off and let him know you're taking the dog anyway. This is the PERFECT example of how immature and awful he really is. He's never home BY HIS OWN ADMISSION and he absolutely won't take good care of her. Now's not the time to worry about his feelings-worry about the dog's health and well-being.

And don't give him ANY of the information he asked for. I know nothing about the law, but I would imagine that him not knowing a thing about the dog's care will certainly help persuade a judge to give you custody of the dog if it comes to that. And yes, I would absolutely take it that far if need be. That dog is YOURS, not his. What a total piece of sh!t this guy is...I can't even believe how selfish some people can be.

 

[sctsbride09]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

On the dog/cat issue. YOU are the one who takes primary care of the pets. He doesnt know vet info/medicine info, doesnt feed her/walk her...hmm...sounds like they are yours. I wouldnt normally suggest this, but if it was me, I wouldnt say a peep about it, and when I moved out I would just take them, no discussion, just dont let him know where you are living obviously. What kind of life would they have if they stayed? He isnt even responsible enough to take care of himself, let alone another living creature, and he has shown you this. Others on here may disagree with me, but that is what *I* would do. I also feel like maybe he is trying to use the pets to get you to stay.

 

[confusedaisy]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

Hmm- sticky, sticky. Do you know of any small claims lawyers who could advise you (or any lawyer really) because I do believe that, even though he paid for the pets, if you have been caring for them you are their owner, however you may have to reimburse him the pets purchase price (note: I am NOT a lawyer- I just Love People's Court and I think I've seen cases like this in the past. In almost all cases, the pet is not returned to the other owner).

My only things with this is... It seems like you are moving out with the intention of saying "I'm not breaking up with you, I'm just moving out. If this is a deal breaker for you then this relationship is ending on your side and I will have to accept it and move on." I can't imagine taking the pets will make this move amicable...

Advice, just wanted to say I'm happy you sound a bit more resolved on leaving. I can't imagine how scary that idea is but you WILL BE OK!!

 

[Blackpaw]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He also made sure to point out in our talk/discussion/fight that the dog is HIS. That if I decide to leave HIM that he's not going to lose me, the cat, and the dog. He then went on to say he was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know, but that I needed to give him all her vet, groomer, trainer, doggie camp, medicine, food, etc information so that he could verify that HIS name was on everything so that I woulnd't leave him AND take HIS dog. I really don't know what to do about this one, I LOVE that little girl and I picked her, found her, trained her, take care of her. She sleeps with ME. He technically paid for her and I guess the paperwork sides in his favor in terms of ownership, but according to her, she's mine. I ended up taking care of her because he doesn't have the time to, he's never home for her walks, feeding times, etc. He doesn't have enough time for himself (according to him) let alone to make sure she gets to the vet and groomer when necessary. And he spent her medicine money on FLYING. I want them both to stay with me, but I know he'll get so so so nasty if I even bring it up. I'm not sure what I can even do about it. More than anything, I know he loves her, but I want whats best for HER most of all.

Oh no advice that's awful dont let him have them please dont. You must take them and definitely dont give him that info under any circumstances. He wont take care of them just like he wouldnt take care of you and they deserve much better...

I hadnt planned on responding to your updates other than to say *HUGS*, but this part about your pets makes me think its time for you to say f*$^ him he's not a good person right now, and I agree with what everyone has said about his manipulation of you re the moving out thing.

Gosh that he would use the pets against you makes me think he's a terrible person and you should get out with them asap...

but *hugs* again, i can tell you're struggling with this...i think if you just do it (dont wait for the lease and all those other things to be right) you'll be so much happier and so relieved, and if it is meant to work you'll be in a place to do it, where you're his equal not his doormat...

 

[chemgirl]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I agree, I think it’s an excuse. He thinks I’m boring, he’s said so on many occasions. When we ‘re talk/fighting whatever, he even said that he’s brought up several times that I never want to do anything on the weekends. Which is NOT true. Things I find enjoyable/relaxing he doesn’t want to do. He thinks I don’t want to do anything, because I don’t want to go FLYING. I’d like him to even come to the grocery store with me to pick out something to make for dinner TOGETHER, but that’s WORK and it’s (in deco’s words) so UN FUN that he thinks it’s BORING. You’ve all said it, he makes time for what’s important to him. Clearly I haven’t made the cut.

I can sort of see his opinion re: moving out as a step towards breaking up, but I clearly explained my expectations for such a situation, and he doesn't get it. Whether or not it's true, I don't know. Breaking up is an option if we can't realign and both make compromises towards a common goal. I (deep down) hope that I haven't wasted all my time and that he sees this as a HUGE reality check that it's time to grow up, put his big boy pants on, and make some serious changes. If not, his loss I guess.

Ugh, I had an ex like this. He always said I was boring, lacked ambition, and never wanted to do anything. In reality, we just had different interests. He wanted me to join a competitive swing dancing group (um...I don't know how to swing dance and I am pretty clumsy) and go rock climbing (the clumsy thing again). Anything else was "boring and lazy." At the time I was working as a teaching assistant, doing a masters degree in chemical engineering, and training for a charity running event. I think that's enough! Most of all, I just wanted to pop in a movie and snuggle with him after a long week! Call me boring.

I think he is just in a really selfish place in his life (I know my ex was!) and he's not really looking out for you and going out of his way to make you feel loved. Grocery shopping and cooking might not be his idea of an exciting day, but they are things that need to get done and he should be willing to help with that. You don't have to love all of the same things, but you should both be trying to find some things you can enjoy doing together. Be it going to a park, driving to a beach, going to an art exhibit, there are a lot of things other than flying and cooking. If he finds you so boring, why doesn't he make the effort to find things you can do together that you both like?

And grrrr about the dog. Also extremely selfish. He clearly isn't thinking about acting in her best interest. He has admitted that he doesn't have time for her, doesn't walk her, and doesn't care for her. He is showing you just how childish, selfish and irresponsible he is by keeping her. I really don't get why you had to show him the vet bills to ensure they are in his name. Where is the trust? I've never had to go and get a document to prove anything to DH. If he has a question, I answer it, and we move on. I am so angry for you and that poor dog right now!

Regarding your plan to move out: I can see why you want to do it. I'm not judging you on that. I was just trying to point out that he's not being unreasonable to be upset about it. Its a big change and it can go either way (ie be good or bad for the relationship). That said, I don't agree with him giving you an ultimatum regarding moving out. He is trying to guilt you and control the situation. Not good and not a very mature way to handle things.

Finally, do you really want a future with a guy who needs so many reality checks? You've talked to him about your problems before and he didn't make an effort to help you. Maybe this is a one time thing, but maybe its not. I worry that you'll need to hold the proverbial gun to his head every time you want to get an important point across. You deserve better than that.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He also made sure to point out in our talk/discussion/fight that the dog is HIS. That if I decide to leave HIM that he's not going to lose me, the cat, and the dog. He then went on to say he was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know, but that I needed to give him all her vet, groomer, trainer, doggie camp, medicine, food, etc information so that he could verify that HIS name was on everything so that I woulnd't leave him AND take HIS dog. I really don't know what to do about this one, I LOVE that little girl and I picked her, found her, trained her, take care of her. She sleeps with ME. He technically paid for her and I guess the paperwork sides in his favor in terms of ownership, but according to her, she's mine. I ended up taking care of her because he doesn't have the time to, he's never home for her walks, feeding times, etc. He doesn't have enough time for himself (according to him) let alone to make sure she gets to the vet and groomer when necessary. And he spent her medicine money on FLYING. I want them both to stay with me, but I know he'll get so so so nasty if I even bring it up. I'm not sure what I can even do about it. More than anything, I know he loves her, but I want whats best for HER most of all.

If I were in your shoes, I'd tell him to f*ck off and let him know you're taking the dog anyway. This is the PERFECT example of how immature and awful he really is. He's never home BY HIS OWN ADMISSION and he absolutely won't take good care of her. Now's not the time to worry about his feelings-worry about the dog's health and well-being.

And don't give him ANY of the information he asked for. I know nothing about the law, but I would imagine that him not knowing a thing about the dog's care will certainly help persuade a judge to give you custody of the dog if it comes to that. And yes, I would absolutely take it that far if need be. That dog is YOURS, not his. What a total piece of sh!t this guy is...I can't even believe how selfish some people can be.

On the dog/cat issue. YOU are the one who takes primary care of the pets. He doesnt know vet info/medicine info, doesnt feed her/walk her...hmm...sounds like they are yours. I wouldnt normally suggest this, but if it was me, I wouldnt say a peep about it, and when I moved out I would just take them, no discussion, just dont let him know where you are living obviously. What kind of life would they have if they stayed? He isnt even responsible enough to take care of himself, let alone another living creature, and he has shown you this. Others on here may disagree with me, but that is what *I* would do. I also feel like maybe he is trying to use the pets to get you to stay.

Hmm- sticky, sticky. Do you know of any small claims lawyers who could advise you (or any lawyer really) because I do believe that, even though he paid for the pets, if you have been caring for them you are their owner, however you may have to reimburse him the pets purchase price (note: I am NOT a lawyer- I just Love People's Court and I think I've seen cases like this in the past. In almost all cases, the pet is not returned to the other owner).

My only things with this is... It seems like you are moving out with the intention of saying "I'm not breaking up with you, I'm just moving out. If this is a deal breaker for you then this relationship is ending on your side and I will have to accept it and move on." I can't imagine taking the pets will make this move amicable...

Advice, just wanted to say I'm happy you sound a bit more resolved on leaving. I can't imagine how scary that idea is but you WILL BE OK!!

I’m not sure how I feel about it to be completely honest. I know that he is without a doubt CAPABALE of taking care of her, both physically and financially. I’ve gone out of town for days at a time and he takes care of her. He loves her. She adores him too. It’s not like he would harm her in anyway. I honestly think it comes down to he doesn’t do it (right now) because he doesn’t HAVE TO. He knows if he doesn’t that I will. His family in general is of the mentality that pets = family. He would never not take care of her. His time is for sure limited, but he also (I know for a fact) will NOT live alone so he will end up rooming with a friend. The one I think is most likely also LOVES dogs and misses having one so I’m sure there would be multiple hands helping out. If it came down to me fearing for her well being and safety, I absolutely would take her and fight him for her. Our cat is non-negotiable, he came into the relationship with me, I adopted him before I even met BF and he has zero claim to him. I agree with confusedaisy, since my approach is that I am moving out/not break up I think taking the dog forcibly is a bad idea.

When it comes down to it, my cat LOVES him. He sleeps with him EVERY night, he cuddles with HIM on the couch while watching TV. The only thing I’m really good for to him is feeding him and changing his box every so often. If you were to ask the cat, he belongs to BF. If you were to ask the dog, she belongs to me. I’ve struggled with the idea of this internally. I’m having a hard time thinking about letting my cat go, but I KNOW he would be better than just okay with BF, he’d be happy. BF would be happy because the cat is MUCH easier to care for. He doesn’t need to be walked, he’s okay with you being gone a lot, he doesn’t really need regular medicine, vetting, grooming, etc. It’s easy to have someone check on them every day if you’re out of town. They even have electronic food dispensers that dispense food in the right portions at certain times so he could be fed to his schedule even if he didn’t make it home on time. I struggle with the idea that trading my cat for his dog, but I think the pets would be happiest that way. It would break my heart not to have him, I’ve had him since he was 2, he’s a little over 9 now. Our dog is only a year and half, we’ve had her about a year. Ideally I’d get them both, but I know that won’t happen.

Does this sway anyone’s mind in a certain direction? What would you do if having both weren’t an option?

My friend thinks I should keep my cat, let him take the dog, and there’s a chance that in a few weeks/months I may end up with the dog anyway if he finds he really can’t commit to having the time to take care of her. I guess it’s possible, but I worry about the psychological effects it came have on her in the meantime. I also worry that if we do break up and it gets ugly that he’d give her to one of his parents before me just to spite me (worst case scenario). I love my cat dearly, but he’s never really doted on me the way he does on BF. I actually adopted him when I was in my previous long term relationship and he was also closer to that BF as well. Maybe he prefers males? Either way, he’ll snuggle with me and lay with me if I’m the only option, but he RARELY chooses me if there is another option.

This is confusing too. We both want them both. We’re each going to get one.

 

[amc80]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I wanted to give you a giant high five for talking to him.

About the pet thing- my ex said the same thing. Technically his name is on one cat's registration and mine is on the other cat's registration. He said he was taking the one that was "his." Mind you, he didn't take them to the vet or buy their food or clean their box. I told him that was fine if he wanted one but he would have to take both of them since I wasn't breaking them up. Then he backpedaled and said he couldn't have pets where he was living. Idiot.

Not sure if you want to start the battle, but I really think you could make a case for keeping the dog. As someone else said, you may have to pay him for what he paid for the dog, but if you are the one doing all the work and paying for everything then you do have a right to keep the dog. My guess is even if he kept the dog you would eventually get a call from him, asking you to take the dog...since he doesn't have the time/desire to care for her.

Regarding the other stuff...don't fall for what he's saying. What a selfish little baby. You aren't breaking up with him, but he is saying if you move out that you're broken up. Guess what? That's his choice. He has that right. And from the sound of it, you're better of anyway. He really REALLY needs to grow up and he's never going to do that with you around. He needs a girl that wants to mother him, and you're not that girl.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

He also made sure to point out in our talk/discussion/fight that the dog is HIS. That if I decide to leave HIM that he's not going to lose me, the cat, and the dog. He then went on to say he was embarrassed to admit that he didn't know, but that I needed to give him all her vet, groomer, trainer, doggie camp, medicine, food, etc information so that he could verify that HIS name was on everything so that I woulnd't leave him AND take HIS dog. I really don't know what to do about this one, I LOVE that little girl and I picked her, found her, trained her, take care of her. She sleeps with ME. He technically paid for her and I guess the paperwork sides in his favor in terms of ownership, but according to her, she's mine. I ended up taking care of her because he doesn't have the time to, he's never home for her walks, feeding times, etc. He doesn't have enough time for himself (according to him) let alone to make sure she gets to the vet and groomer when necessary. And he spent her medicine money on FLYING. I want them both to stay with me, but I know he'll get so so so nasty if I even bring it up. I'm not sure what I can even do about it. More than anything, I know he loves her, but I want whats best for HER most of all.

Oh no advice that's awful dont let him have them please dont. You must take them and definitely dont give him that info under any circumstances. He wont take care of them just like he wouldnt take care of you and they deserve much better...

I hadnt planned on responding to your updates other than to say *HUGS*, but this part about your pets makes me think its time for you to say f*$^ him he's not a good person right now, and I agree with what everyone has said about his manipulation of you re the moving out thing.

Gosh that he would use the pets against you makes me think he's a terrible person and you should get out with them asap...

but *hugs* again, i can tell you're struggling with this...i think if you just do it (dont wait for the lease and all those other things to be right) you'll be so much happier and so relieved, and if it is meant to work you'll be in a place to do it, where you're his equal not his doormat...

Them is not up for debate (see my other post). It’s really about the dog. Thanks for the hugs. I have no doubt he would take care of whichever pet he keeps to the best of his ability. That is something he is serious about. He hates people who don’t take care of the pets. Financially the dog costs WAY more than the cat and needs more help (going out, etc). I’m really torn on this. I feel like keeping the cat would be because I want him. I’m certain that given the choice he would want to stay with BF and the dog would choose me. Selfishly, we both love them both and want them both. We can’t both have both. I know he is not going to relent on having one of them and I know that I don’t want to force his hand because I really don’t think/feel that there are any endangerment issues. Whichever pet he gets, he will take care of. I do think it would be easier for him to take care of the cat, both financially and time wise. I spend ~125 (give or take) a month on them. About $40 is the cat, the rest is the dog.

 

[advicepls]

Re: Breaking up is hard to do. Advice from all people on PS

I wanted to give you a giant high five for talking to him.

About the pet thing- my ex said the same thing. Technically his name is on one cat's registration and mine is on the other cat's registration. He said he was taking the one that was "his." Mind you, he didn't take them to the vet or buy their food or clean their box. I told him that was fine if he wanted one but he would have to take both of them since I wasn't breaking them up. Then he backpedaled and said he couldn't have pets where he was living. Idiot.

Not sure if you want to start the battle, but I really think you could make a case for keeping the dog. As someone else said, you may have to pay him for what he paid for the dog, but if you are the one doing all the work and paying for everything then you do have a right to keep the dog. My guess is even if he kept the dog you would eventually get a call from him, asking you to take the dog...since he doesn't have the time/desire to care for her.

Regarding the other stuff...don't fall for what he's saying. What a selfish little baby. You aren't breaking up with him, but he is saying if you move out that you're broken up. Guess what? That's his choice. He has that right. And from the sound of it, you're better of anyway. He really REALLY needs to grow up and he's never going to do that with you around. He needs a girl that wants to mother him, and you're not that girl.

Thanks amc. I have mixed feelings about breaking them up. The don't really play (cat is older 9 years, could take or leave the dog, dog is younger 1 1/2, likes the cat, but he won't play with her so they kind of keep to themselves). He'd take both of them in a heartbeat, and I can't let that happen. I need one of them (at least). I know I could make a case for keeping the dog, but like I said, I'm not worried about them being neglected/abused so I don't think it's worth the stress. And you're right, like my friend said, if I let him take her and keep my cat, there's a chance I'd end up with both down the road.